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XBox One's real issue is game life

CDX

Member
May 31, 2012
2,757
0
0
You misunderstand. This isn't a BC issue. XBO games are reliant on MS servers to function - once those shut off 10-15 years from now, those games become glorified drink coasters. The same cannot be said of current-gen games. Plug in your PS3 and you can play your PS3 games, even 50 years from now. The same cannot be said of XBO.
Exactly this makes me really uncomfortable with the possible direction gaming is headed to in the future.

An all digital future is bad enough, but at least theoretically, you should've been able to play the games you bought and downloaded for as long as your machine works. But now add in mandatory server checks and suddenly EVERY game is dependent on those servers staying up.

I'm not comfortable with my games having an unknown expiration date :(
 
Oct 22, 2009
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That would be Xbox Live account servers seen as it would just be license tied to that kinda like how all 360 consumables are tied to you Xbox Live account. They won't be getting rid of Xbox Live accounts.
You don't know that. What if MS folds the xbox division in 15 years? The servers get shut down, your games become worthless. But that's not even the biggest issue- what if the servers get hacked and they can't bring them back online? Just look what happened with SimCity this year. That shitstorm didn't happen because people without internet wanted to play. People were connected, wanted to play, and couldn't because of server side issues. Now imagine that except spread across an entire platform.
 

JonathanPower

Member
Jan 15, 2012
1,920
0
0
My biggest fear about Xbox One isn't even about used games. It's about how long these games will live. I can still play every Atari 2600 game I bought. All my NES games (battery still works somehow). Game boy.

The biggest one being PC. I can still play just about all those old games on new PC's!

This is spanning 30 years of my gaming history. Every game I ever bought, aside from Final Fantasy 7 PC version which is a bugged game, can be played today.

I can't say the same for Xbox One. Once the servers get shut off, it's done. You're stuck with frisbee's.

This will also hurt collectors.
Yes, you are right. It kinda is like when MS shutted off Xbox live support for the first Xbox, and people couldn't play Halo 2 online anymore.

This is much worse though, because as you said, once MS drops support to Xbox ONE, you won't be able to play with it anymore.
 

Teppic

Member
Sep 12, 2006
3,809
0
0
There is a good chance all three of these happen:

Backwards compatibility on next platform
Cloud streaming
MS will patch the platform ala steam and divx to accept titles


This is the start of DD generation through X1
Dream on.
 

eggwolio

Member
Dec 19, 2011
878
0
0
Dallas, TX
Thank you, OP. I've been fretting for the last few days about how to increase my post count at a rapid pace without spamming up the place just so I could lose my junior status and make a post like this. To me, this is the most important thing people should know about the XBOne. Your games, and your investment in them, have a shorter lifespan than any which came before them. How can anyone support this decision? People get mad when systems aren't backwards compatible, but there is not enough at all being said about this system's compatibility with games created for it eventually drying up and leaving you with frisbees and a doorstop.
 

jay

Member
Oct 25, 2006
9,198
0
1,000
Such a switch would be a legal nightmare. I never believed Steam even had this switch, much less being capable of using it without getting sued into oblivion.
Steam's switch is up there with Nintendo going out of business before going third party when it comes to bedtime stories gamers embrace.

On topic, this is also a big issue for me. I hate the idea of games disappearing.
 
Sep 5, 2011
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Steam's switch is up there with Nintendo going out of business before going third party when it comes to bedtime stories gamers embrace.

On topic, this is also a big issue for me. I hate the idea of games disappearing.
...and yet people still believe that Steam, broke and going under, would have the legal clout to open up their entire library to extreme piracy and the publishers will sit back and let it happen.

Look people, there is no DRM off switch that could be legally used. If Steam/Xbox brand goes under, so do your games.
 

eot

Member
Apr 13, 2012
11,355
2,226
800
What if MS said they had a DRM kill switch like Steam?
That's an urban legend at this point. Unless you happen to have a source?

This is my issue with Steam too. But people just don't care.
I care, but whenever I buy games directly from devs it's a f****** pain in the ass. I can't redownload half of them because the links have expired. That's not being able to play them now, as opposed to 15 years from now.
 

steveovig

Member
Jun 29, 2008
3,022
0
0
Thank you, OP. I've been fretting for the last few days about how to increase my post count at a rapid pace without spamming up the place just so I could lose my junior status and make a post like this. To me, this is the most important thing people should know about the XBOne. Your games, and your investment in them, have a shorter lifespan than any which came before them. How can anyone support this decision? People get mad when systems aren't backwards compatible, but there is not enough at all being said about this system's compatibility with games created for it eventually drying up and leaving you with frisbees and a doorstop.
Well said. If this type of thing catches on with Sony and Nintendo, the gaming industry as we know will cease to exist.
 

jabuseika

Member
Feb 18, 2011
4,643
1
590
I still have a box somewhere with a PS2, a PS1, and a Dreamcast, with all of my games for those systems. I know I'll be able to take those out any time and play them, up until the physical media it self comes apart.

I don't like the feeling of buying a bunch of games that instantly become just plastic coasters, have them on one hard-drive without any backups, and just pray that some computer on the other side will allow me to play them down the line. Worse, that some one hacks my account and takes all the games authorizations with them in the process.

Unless Microsoft does the Steam thing of letting you play your games offline once their authentication servers go out of service. But this is something I expect of PC gaming, and I don't want it anywhere close to my consoles.

If that is the case, and if that is where it's all going eventually and can't be escaped, than I'll just stick with Steam and PC gaming.
 

FoxSpirit

Junior Member
Sep 27, 2006
9,674
0
0
It wouldn't be even possible with games relying cloud computing.
Yeah, thought the same thing.
Thanks to "cloud compute enhanced games" your games potentially could not even work on the console when internet is out.... or the servers get shut down.
*shakes head*
I will forver fondly remember the days of PS2 and before. Saves to carry around, discs to just pop in... the good stuff, ya know?
 

tinfoilhatman

all of my posts are my avatar
Dec 8, 2006
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I still play Journey, Flower ect frequently.........pisses me off royally that I won't be able to play these on PS4 but at least the PS3 has a bluRay player so I'll keep it around in our bedroom or something just to watch movies.

There' a good chance the consoles will be sticking with x86 variant in the future so I don't think BC will be an issue next NEXT gen
 

Teppic

Member
Sep 12, 2006
3,809
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I care, but whenever I buy games directly from devs it's a f****** pain in the ass. I can't redownload half of them because the links have expired. That's not being able to play them now, as opposed to 15 years from now.
Just do your own backups? I don't see the issue here.
 

Deified Data

Banned
Jul 6, 2011
26,140
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Exactly this makes me really uncomfortable with the possible direction gaming is headed to in the future.

An all digital future is bad enough, but at least theoretically, you should've been able to play the games you bought and downloaded for as long as your machine works. But now add in mandatory server checks and suddenly EVERY game is dependent on those servers staying up.

I'm not comfortable with my games having an unknown expiration date :(
It's why I've always been leery of MMOs or multiplayer-centric games. There's a lot of fun to be had there for a limited amount of time, but a significant portion of that game is going to cease to exist sooner or later, if the game doesn't disappear outright.
 

BruiserBear

Banned
Oct 19, 2010
15,960
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Right there with you OP. This is the single biggest problem I have with the new Xbox.

I also think the vast majority of people don't even realize this is a thing.




It wouldn't be even possible with games relying cloud computing.
And which Xbox One games are relying on cloud computing?
 

Jucksalbe

Banned
Oct 31, 2007
10,664
0
0
I agree, it's a huge issue. We are already losing games because of digital services, but those you can at least still play if you bought them, on XBox One your entire collection might be useless from one day to the next.
 

M3d10n

Member
Aug 28, 2006
11,468
1
0
There is a good chance all three of these happen:

Backwards compatibility on next platform
Cloud streaming
MS will patch the platform ala steam and divx to accept titles


This is the start of DD generation through X1
This is a joke, right?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DIVX said:
The format was discontinued on 16 June 1999 because of the costs of introducing the format, as well as its very limited acceptance by the general public. Circuit City announced a $114 million after-tax loss,[3] and Variety estimated the total loss on the scheme was around $337 million.[2] Over the next two years the DIVX system was phased out. Customers could still view all their DIVX discs and were given a $100 refund for every player that was purchased before June 16, 1999. All discs that were unsold at the end of the summer of 1999 were destroyed. The program officially cut off access to accounts on 7 July 2001. The player's Security Module, which had an internal Real-Time Clock, ceased to allow DIVX functions after 30 days without a connection to the central system. Unsold players were liquidated in online auctions, but not before being modified to remove the DIVX Security Module. As a result, certain player models demonstrated lockups when DIVX menus were accessed.
DIVX discs became coasters after the service went under. It's a textbook example of how bad something that relies on remote authentication servers can go bad.
 

jay

Member
Oct 25, 2006
9,198
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The sad fact is a majority of gamers don't care about anything old. Gamers have made it clear that games are not art, they are a passing consumer entertainment affair. People who want to play and appreciate older games are a minority so the manufacturers will at best throw us a bone by uploading some PS1 games on PSN and what have you.

As for my own personal take, I believe the hardcore gamer who masturbates to the amount of RAM a console has and thinks anything old is unplayable is an abomination who has forsaken his own hobby and doomed the rest of us to a fractured, incomplete record of gaming.
 

eggwolio

Member
Dec 19, 2011
878
0
0
Dallas, TX
Well said. If this type of thing catches on with Sony and Nintendo, the gaming industry as we know will cease to exist.
I don't think we have to worry about Nintendo. I love those guys, but the internet still scares them. The biggest problem is all of the consumers who will undoubtedly bend over and take this from Microsoft. I still pay for Live every year and I don't even game online. The only reason I have it is so I can watch HBOGo and for the cloud saves since I have two systems. I do also use it for Netflix and Hulu, but I have a bunch of other devices I could do that on just as well. I'm a part of the problem. I've told Microsoft, "Oh yeah, charge me $60 a year for stuff Sony gives me for free." When people scoop these things up off the shelves and look the other way as their purchases die faster than their family pets, they're telling Microsoft it's okay. My only hope is that word of this gets out so that consumers can realize they're buying something temporary.
 

Brobzoid

how do I slip unnoticed out of a gloryhole booth?
May 8, 2006
14,294
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0
there has always been a push from the publishers to consider games perfunctory.

In general the industry want the consumer to buy new stuff at a regular rate. Many of the big companies couldn't care less about preserving or archiving video games for the public and the faction of the public that cares is too small for anyone to bother.

GOG is trying, but that's just PC games. There are many arcade games and console/handheld games that will just be left by the wayside because there isn't any money in making them available.
 

chifanpoe

Member
Jan 10, 2009
1,742
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0
If you're really concerned about preserving compatibility with PC games, there are certain things you can do to tilt the odds in your favor. Running brand new OSs is generally not one of those things.

You can buy usb drives to load almost any kind of media imaginable, so no worries there, unless you don't have USB ports, which would be weird. I dunno. I have very little problems running older games on a Windows 7 64-bit PC. Sure, maybe there's a handful out of thousands... but on the whole it's very reliable.
Or use DOSBox, or VM Ware to run older versions of Windows ect.
 

Christberg

Member
Jun 9, 2004
2,169
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0
It's a serious issue for sure. Personally I'd be more worried about game prices not depreciating over time though. Their DRM just has "giant stealth cost increase" written all over it. And we haven't even heard what the game SRP will be...

Want to play that new game at a friend's house? Hope you don't mind waiting an hour for the game to install and download patches.
Want to lend it to them? Nope.
Want to download a demo so you can try first? Better purchase XBL.
Want access to any media features? Better purchase XBL.
Want to buy a "used" game under their new system? Full price please.
Want no ads on your dashboard? Middle finger.
Want to "sell" a game back? $5 worth of MS point "account credit" not redeemable at any store.
When the console dies? Sign into your account and spend an entire day reinstalling all your games. Saves lost unless you purchase XBL.
End of the console's life? Server shut down, all game licenses revoked making your console an expensive paperweight.

My guess is 95% of these come true.
 

SlipperySlope

Banned
Mar 11, 2009
6,499
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This hasn't been my experience at all, either historically or today. Heck, I can't get GTAIV on steam to launch on my new mac mini running W8... Some incompatibility issue that is unsolved.

With many old games you can eventually get them to run on a new PC with some tinkering, compatibility settings, or special drivers... but it's not always easy. Also, if your new PC doesn't have a diskette drive or a CD Rom drive... I don't know how you'd install many old games without downloading a rip.

not trying to criticize PC gaming, I love PC gaming, but it's just not true that PC's always support back libraries. With new systems like Steam or GoG this may be the case, but even then, you could run into the future proofing issue that you're alluding to with the One or PS4 (if they go with a similar method)
What if you install a VM? That'll usually fix incompatibility issues, so long as your drivers are compatible with that version of Windows.
 

demolitiongc1

Banned
Apr 6, 2006
189
0
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What about if in 20 years we are no longer using Ethernet/Wi-Fi as the standard to connect to the internet? This stragety assumes that we will always be connected to the internet the same way we are now and that Microsoft's gaming division will be around forever.
 
Sep 5, 2011
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What about if in 20 years we are no longer using Ethernet/Wi-Fi as the standard to connect to the internet? This stragety assumes that we will always be connected to the internet the same way we are now and that Microsoft's gaming division will be around forever.
I figure that the whole point of Microsoft getting into the console business was to take over the living room before Sony could. Well, this is it their big move and if they fail to conquer the living room, they may leave the console business.
 

jlevel13

Member
Oct 27, 2009
1,066
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0
My biggest fear about Xbox One isn't even about used games. It's about how long these games will live. Once the servers get shut off, it's done. You're stuck with frisbee's.
I agree. Will publishers decide when your games become unplayable? For instance, after two years when EA shuts down servers for it's "old" sports games, will you never be able to play them again, instead of just not being able to play online multiplayer (bad enough already)...
 

Fantasmo

Member
Nov 8, 2004
7,049
3
0
USA
This hasn't been my experience at all, either historically or today. Heck, I can't get GTAIV on steam to launch on my new mac mini running W8... Some incompatibility issue that is unsolved.

With many old games you can eventually get them to run on a new PC with some tinkering, compatibility settings, or special drivers... but it's not always easy. Also, if your new PC doesn't have a diskette drive or a CD Rom drive... I don't know how you'd install many old games without downloading a rip.

not trying to criticize PC gaming, I love PC gaming, but it's just not true that PC's always support back libraries. With new systems like Steam or GoG this may be the case, but even then, you could run into the future proofing issue that you're alluding to with the One or PS4 (if they go with a similar method)
That's a compatibility issue, not a server activation authentication issue.
In other words, that's your issue, but one you have some control over.
The ooposite is true for XB1
 

GamerJM

Banned
May 19, 2013
11,841
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California
Definitely one of my biggest worries, too.

I would love it if a journalist asked Microsoft about this.
I'm just confused as to why no one's asking about this. The media is so crazy. They're all about moving forward with technology while no one is respecting the past. Same with Microsoft. It's part of the reason Nintendo gets no respect. They focus on nostalgia and arguably outdated tech, and as a result the media views them as irrelevant.

But no one seems to realize how much a system like this hinders gaming as an art form.
 

Tenrius

Member
Oct 24, 2012
5,526
0
580
backloggery.com
And which Xbox One games are relying on cloud computing?
I believe they said that the developers will have an option to have some parts of their games computed in the cloud. I'd actually really like to learn at what extent it will be possible and further details, but they didn't say anything else yet. Theoretically, it could mean even OnLive/Gaikai style streaming.
 

Danthrax

Batteries the CRISIS!
Nov 19, 2005
16,993
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Northeast Ohio
www.dudebro2.com
This is a big concern I have with the XBO, too. I figure that with Steam games, even if there is no master DRM kill switch, hackers will be able to disable it at some point. XBO DRM likely will be harder for hackers to disable, though.
 
May 17, 2010
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There is a good chance all three of these happen:

Backwards compatibility on next platform
Cloud streaming
MS will patch the platform ala steam and divx to accept titles


This is the start of DD generation through X1
Why would Microsoft not give us backwards compatibility from Xbox 360 to Xbox One, but then give it to us from Xbox One to Xbox Two?

The truth is that backwards compatibility doesn't benefit their bottom line, so they won't include it.
 

Spartaner

Banned
Feb 16, 2013
209
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I wonder if, before shutting down the servers, they'll send out a patch that turns off the mandatory online check-in and all that crap?

I highly doubt it.
that would violate a lot of EU laws and they would be all over this.
 

Eusis

Member
Apr 15, 2011
36,667
1
615
My biggest fear about Xbox One isn't even about used games. It's about how long these games will live. I can still play every Atari 2600 game I bought. All my NES games (battery still works somehow). Game boy.

The biggest one being PC. I can still play just about all those old games on new PC's!

This is spanning 30 years of my gaming history. Every game I ever bought, aside from Final Fantasy 7 PC version which is a bugged game, can be played today.

I can't say the same for Xbox One. Once the servers get shut off, it's done. You're stuck with frisbee's.

This will also hurt collectors.
It's why I feel the system actively needs to die ASAP, the fewer games stuck on it the better, and if it fails no one will want to try again for quite awhile or at least they'll drop some of the stipulations IE always dialing home.
 

Krafter

Member
Jul 29, 2012
518
0
0
Bordentown, NJ
I still play my Game Cube and my PS2 regularly. They are (or about to be, in PS2's case) 2 full generations behind. Do you think Microsoft will have Xbox One's servers running when the Xbox Three (Five?) is out? Wouldn't roll that dice, myself.
 

nkarafo

Member
Nov 30, 2012
14,290
4,322
930
Once the console ends its lifespan, all the games you bought for it will be unusable. This is good for Microsoft of course because people who like to play games will be forced to buy new ones or re-buy the old ones. Heck, their next console won't be backwards compatible (because, Microsoft) and this means they can re-sell all those games again.

Because, fuck consumers.
 

nkarafo

Member
Nov 30, 2012
14,290
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930
I also don't think BC is a solution. Its a partial solution. Not all Xbone users will want the next console and, assuming its going to be BC, they will be FORCED to buy it just to play the games they used to play on the old console. That's 400-500$ every 6 years to keep your collection alive.
 

Neo C.

Member
Mar 2, 2007
7,877
0
0
Yeah, it's basically the same problem with Steam: Games are now a service, not a good. They stop the service, you have nothing in your hand.

Edit: beaten several times.
 

Raptomex

Member
Sep 1, 2011
9,352
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725
30
gamingpastime.com
My biggest fear about Xbox One isn't even about used games. It's about how long these games will live. I can still play every Atari 2600 game I bought. All my NES games (battery still works somehow). Game boy.

The biggest one being PC. I can still play just about all those old games on new PC's!

This is spanning 30 years of my gaming history. Every game I ever bought, aside from Final Fantasy 7 PC version which is a bugged game, can be played today.

I can't say the same for Xbox One. Once the servers get shut off, it's done. You're stuck with frisbee's.

This will also hurt collectors.
Exactly why I hate multiplayer focused games.