abracadaver
Member
This is madness. You bought Call of Duty Ghosts for 360 and X1 ?
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Xbox One's Scaler May Be Applying a Sharpening Filter to All Sub-1080p Games
- Thread starter madmackem
- Start date
Broder Salsa
Banned
Motionflow set to full though, gotta get that 60fps.
You can't. Sure, you can adjust the brightness on your TV but the information in the crushed black areas is lost forever. When you brighten the image up, the flat black areas will become flat grey areas. MS fucked up.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
But it'll look super blurry.
Yeah Ryse doesn't have it. It must be optional for developers to use.
It it's anything like the 360 scaler, it's up to the devs to chose the algorithm used.
The console's output is way to dark. My TV was setup just a few weeks ago with my work's color meter and everything is pretty much as good as it can be on a LCD/LED tv, but when going to the Xbox One video calibration I simply can't see any of the dark gray/black tests like I'm supposed to. I've had to use a new scene mode on my tv so that I could get acceptable results.
It's simpler with this:
If you look on the right of the image, there is an histogram of the black to white levels of the image.
The orange/brown borders are the safe zones for TVs (16-235). Nothing should ever be there in a normal output, but as you can see, there is content in there, meaning the video output isn't as it should be.
Wait, that's with the console set to limited? If so, that's weird.
Yeah some are different my panny is on close to 0 my sony is set to 50 as that seems to be 0.
Jesus, guys.
Seriously:
- Walk to your X1's right now -> set output to 1080p -> boot up a game that renders at 720p or 900p -> Take a look.
- Exit the game -> set output to 720p (let your tv scale instead of the x1) -> boot up the same game - > Take a look.
There definitely is some sharpening going on to compensate for the resolution disparity, but it's not the scaler.
Seriously:
- Walk to your X1's right now -> set output to 1080p -> boot up a game that renders at 720p or 900p -> Take a look.
- Exit the game -> set output to 720p (let your tv scale instead of the x1) -> boot up the same game - > Take a look.
There definitely is some sharpening going on to compensate for the resolution disparity, but it's not the scaler.
Whiteshirt
Member
Read this article. It explains why calibration is good and how to do it much better than any of us can do it.
Generally speaking, you fix black crush via gamma settings. None of them may be good though but you'll just have to accept that.
The only time I've ever encountered 0 sharpness leading to "super blurry" images are on Samsung sets, which even then you only apply a very small amount of sharpening. For the majority of TV sets, 0 is what you generally calibrate too.
That Wont Fit In There
Member
I don't have an Xbox. This is in regards to my ps4 and ps3. Can't I fix my monitor settings for that?
What res is AC4? I got it on the One and it doesn't look 720, but it doesn't look as sharp as 1080 should. I'm guessing 900?
And ps4. haha. Tbh i traded in my 360 title for a straight swap for x1 but lent a copy of the 360 copy from a friend to compare the issues i was seeing in cod.
Slayer-33
Liverpool-2
Holy shit lol
Cannon Goose
Member
My monitors are like this, I have them both set to around 50 because anything lower starts to look very blurry.
Yes, that's actually how it looks natively.
Resolution matters, bro. Artificially sharpening it does only degrade the image quality.
Use this test pattern on your TV to calibrate sharpness.
It just upsets me that game journalism doesn't care about this stuff.
Its a completely different world when buying a tech gadget. I'm actually looking into buying a projector and the things I've learned by watching reviews was enough to make me say whoa.
Things like this in video games are slid under the rug. The whole 1080p/720p fiasco was a prime example. And other things like brushing off multiplayer modes, microtransactions, and testing framerates.
That said, there are a couple sites that still look out for these things. But it should be a widespread thing.
Thank goodness for gaf.
Its a completely different world when buying a tech gadget. I'm actually looking into buying a projector and the things I've learned by watching reviews was enough to make me say whoa.
Things like this in video games are slid under the rug. The whole 1080p/720p fiasco was a prime example. And other things like brushing off multiplayer modes, microtransactions, and testing framerates.
That said, there are a couple sites that still look out for these things. But it should be a widespread thing.
Thank goodness for gaf.
WTF!!
OdysseusVA
Banned
Adjust brightness and disable any "dynamic" settings on your display. You want to make sure "0" is blackest while still being able to see the rest of the blocks
Fudgepuppy
Banned
It's times like these I'm glad I'm not getting the Xbone, simply because I'm such an ocd-maniac that's been calibrating my tv for almost a year now.
Watching movies at my friends house is a nightmare.
Crushed blacks, red tint, all post-processing effects activated and fucking movie-plus.
GET THAT SHIT OUT OF HERE I'M GOING HOME TO WATCH THIS MOVIE FUCK YOU AND YOUR SHITTY CALIBRATION AND REFUSAL TO LET ME FIX IT.
Watching movies at my friends house is a nightmare.
Crushed blacks, red tint, all post-processing effects activated and fucking movie-plus.
GET THAT SHIT OUT OF HERE I'M GOING HOME TO WATCH THIS MOVIE FUCK YOU AND YOUR SHITTY CALIBRATION AND REFUSAL TO LET ME FIX IT.
Kiraly
Member
That Wont Fit In There
Member
Should I be viewing this on my monitor? It's connected to my ps4 and I'm having trouble understanding.
HoodWinked
Member
ugh....
this all depends on the frame buffer. some games will have a 1980x1080 frame buffer with the target render at less than that. it doesnt mean there is a specific scaler that it passes through. its part of the rendering pipeline which is a composite.
take this image for example this is UI which you can tell its native text since its probably vector, so this means the actual frame buffer must be 1920x1080. so this 'nightmare scaler' is doing what exactly if the frame buffer is already 1080p. if you're actually seeing something then either its your tv or you're seeing something thats not there.
there is so much fud on here :/ I should just make a separate thread on it.
this all depends on the frame buffer. some games will have a 1980x1080 frame buffer with the target render at less than that. it doesnt mean there is a specific scaler that it passes through. its part of the rendering pipeline which is a composite.
take this image for example this is UI which you can tell its native text since its probably vector, so this means the actual frame buffer must be 1920x1080. so this 'nightmare scaler' is doing what exactly if the frame buffer is already 1080p. if you're actually seeing something then either its your tv or you're seeing something thats not there.
there is so much fud on here :/ I should just make a separate thread on it.
Oh god. Watching movies when people have cranked the MotionFlow, Movie-Plus, 40000Hz ultragarbage set to 10 makes me mad as hell.
This stuff sometimes, sometimes benefits things like live sports matches. But otherwise, that shit needs to go.
Chobel
Member
Crytek said they're upscaling using their own technique so they're not using Xbox One hardware upscaler.
OdysseusVA
Banned
Yes, you should be viewing it on the display you want adjusted.
The UI is always at a native resolution now, the Xbox One has a special way of compositing various image elements at various resolutions, it was explained in the leaks we got a few months ago.
Portugeezer
Member
The console's output is way to dark. My TV was setup just a few weeks ago with my work's color meter and everything is pretty much as good as it can be on a LCD/LED tv, but when going to the Xbox One video calibration I simply can't see any of the dark gray/black tests like I'm supposed to. I've had to use a new scene mode on my tv so that I could get acceptable results.
It's simpler with this:
If you look on the right of the image, there is an histogram of the black to white levels of the image.
The orange/brown borders are the safe zones for TVs (16-235). Nothing should ever be there in a normal output, but as you can see, there is content in there, meaning the video output isn't as it should be.
Part of me believes this was done purposefully...
Last gen there was a misconception that crushed blacks looked better (omg high contrast HD goodness!), and maybe they did last gen because it hid some of the shortcomings in games.
But for next gen, crushed blacks are probably going to only make it look worse.
IIRC I read somewhere developers could control the scaler - the issue I believe is that the default's for the scaler are allegedly excessive sharpening and crushed blacks so it's down to the developers to chose to control it to get best results for their game.
Can't remember where I saw this so might have to Google around to check I'm right but I'm sure I read the scaler could be controlled directly by the game if developers chose to do so.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
Do you complain about that at the movie theater? There's no sharpening there.
Ricerocket
Member
3 display planes on X1 allow UI rendering separate from the game.
Broder Salsa
Banned
Maybe when running at 720p, but it will certainly look better than a over sharpened image where image quality and details are lost, which the sharpening filter will do.
plagiarize
Banned
Every game doing this should have an option to turn it off. I hate it. I do not want this to still be a thing when I buy an Xbox One at sometime in the future. I cannot comprehend why they have made this something you cannot turn off in ANY game, but there it is on loads of stuff. BF4 had it. COD has it. DR3 has it. It looks horrible in all of them.
I don't mind leaving it as an option. It doesn't upset me at all that my TV can have it's sharpness settings turned up above 0. It needs to be optional though. I don't buy Blu-Rays with this shit baked in.
lemmykoopa
Junior Member
I wouldn't advise anyone to just set Sharpness to 0 on their TV without using some test patterns or going by eye. On some TV's setting Sharpness to 0 goes beyond turning off the Sharpness processing and creates a picture that is too soft.
If I set Sharpness to 0 on my Sony W6 the image on 1080 looks like its sub hd.
If I set Sharpness to 0 on my Sony W6 the image on 1080 looks like its sub hd.
TAJ
Darkness cannot drive out darkness; only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate; only love can do that.
It's funny how native resolution doesn't matter but they want to make sure the parts that are easy to make high-res are.
If your are able please take a mp lobby shot like that on cod,
plagiarize
Banned
Someone should really send someone with a bunch of test patterns over to every major site that does game reviews to make sure their equipment is all properly calibrated. I wouldn't take Blu-ray reviews seriously from anyone that didn't have properly calibrated equipment. Sharpness + more contrast is a really harmful look to anything with jaggies like games. Yes, DR3 without it would look a lot 'softer' and not have as much 'pop' but the pixel stepping wouldn't be like knives going into your eyes.
OdysseusVA
Banned
As someone said some tvs have 0 ast 50.
HoodWinked
Member
wonder how that will work when there are differences in framerate.
John Caboose
Member
It all depends on the standard setting. Some tvs/monitors have neutral at 50%, others at 0%.
Well, there would be stuff there if the console was set to full range. I doubt Blim would have made this mistake, but just wanna be sure. There seems to be some weird gamma correction going on.
Because if that's the case, then I wonder what is the console going to output exacly if it's set to full range. That would certainly explain DF's results with BF4 and confirm that their explanation as to why the blacks were crushed was rubbish (well it never really made sense in the first place).
Sleeplessnights
Banned
But it's such sharp
wow
many pixels
Hot garbage
