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[Theonik]

http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/radeon-instinct-2016dec12.aspx



Ultimately what it means is proper consumer parts with proper, dedicated cooling will almost assuredly have higher core clocks. It looks as if AMD may have finally closed the core clock speed gap with Nvidia.

This is a proper part with proper cooling it just doesn't have an internal fan which is good for saving space on a server, individual fans are wasteful. It has a TDP for 225W, the higher TDP part on that slide is 300W. Even that doesn't match the 1080, which is at least 1700Mhz on a TDP of 170w.

AMD is not even touching nVidia at all. Don't be silly.

 

[Hawk269]

Will this be five hundred and ninety nine US dollars? I'm not falling for that again. Seriously though when are they going to announce a price?

The Nintendo Switch comes out in 2 months and there is no price as of yet. We won't get a price until E3. I think we will have a pre-E3 show for them to discuss the hardware, features and a few games showing what they can do with the Scorpio and then at E3 go more deep with the games and price of the unit. It is way too early for them to talk price right now.

Since the time Phil started talking about it being a premium product etc. we have had 2 distinct discussions about the potential price of the unit.

#1.) Phil is saying premium product to soften the blow when they announce that it is $499.99 or higher and then Phil saying that he has been telling everyone all along this is going to be a premium console and it comes with a premium price.

#2.) Phil is saying premium product and will surprise everyone with a $399.99 console.

I have a feeling it is going to be #1 as it will have some cutting edge tech that will drive the price above $399.99. I am pegging it to be at $499.99 w/500gb HDD and a higher HDD version at $599.99 with a hybrid 2TB SSHD.

 

[Chris1]

Isnt the sole purpose of dx12 is to eliminate these generations? Uwp was invented for this reason too no?

And they have said xboxes moving forward will be backward and forward compatible.. what does that say?

Ch ch ch chea. Hov!

Ehh, do you really expect Xbox 2030, 2040, 2050 games to run on launch XB1 though? Let's be realistic. Back compat? 100%. Future compat? Not even PC is like that, so...

When they said that they just didn't want to confuse people and even though it won't be true in like 10 years, nobody is gonna remember or even care (they'll probably be glad launch XB1's were dropped). I think expecting your launch XB1 to work indefinitely on all games without a hitch is a bit much

 

[Shadynasty]

The Nintendo Switch comes out in 2 months and there is no price as of yet. We won't get a price until E3. I think we will have a pre-E3 show for them to discuss the hardware, features and a few games showing what they can do with the Scorpio and then at E3 go more deep with the games and price of the unit. It is way too early for them to talk price right now.

Since the time Phil started talking about it being a premium product etc. we have had 2 distinct discussions about the potential price of the unit.

#1.) Phil is saying premium product to soften the blow when they announce that it is $499.99 or higher and then Phil saying that he has been telling everyone all along this is going to be a premium console and it comes with a premium price.

#2.) Phil is saying premium product and will surprise everyone with a $399.99 console.

I have a feeling it is going to be #1 as it will have some cutting edge tech that will drive the price above $399.99. I am pegging it to be at $499.99 w/500gb HDD and a higher HDD version at $599.99 with a hybrid 2TB SSHD.

If this thing somehow ends up being 399.99 I would be surprised. 499.99-599.99 sounds more likely. When I read articles with titles talking about turning a xbox into a pc I wonder if they're considering making components of it up-gradable over time.

 

[SenjutsuSage]

This is a proper part with proper cooling it just doesn't have an internal fan which is good for saving space on a server, individual fans are wasteful. It has a TDP for 225W, the higher TDP part on that slide is 300W. Even that doesn't match the 1080, which is at least 1700Mhz on a TDP of 170w.

AMD is not even touching nVidia at all. Don't be silly.

The Mi25 is competing directly against Nvidia's Tesla P100 GPU,

That Tesla P100 has a core clock of 1328MHZ, with a boost up to 1480MHZ. Tesla p100 is a 300W TDP part also.

Nvidia Chip does 21.2 Tflops half precision, 10.6 Tflops Single, and 5.3 Tflops Double.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10433/nvidia-announces-pci-express-tesla-p100

The Vega 10 Mi25 we're looking at has a core clock of 1526MHZ (no idea on boost yet) Has a TDP of 225W.

AMD Chip does 25Tflops half precision, 12.5Tflops Single, and 675Gflops Double (the rate for the AMD chip for 64 bit is 1/16 compared to Nvidia's 1/2 rate, hence Nvidia easily comes out on top there.

http://wccftech.com/amd-vega-10-20-slides-double-precision-performance-1500-mhz-vega-10-x2-2017/

I don't see AMD doing nearly as bad as you think they are.

If I go ahead and include the 300W Vega, things get uglier depending on what you look at, but we have an estimated clock of 1100MHZ for that right now.

The P100 is based on a bigger Pascal X, but even then Vega compares very favorably. (The Vega Chip arguably does even better compared to Pascal Titan X, but the GP102 isn't aimed at the same market as P100, so not a big deal)

All signs right now are that AMD has potentially finally caught up to Nvidia in the core clock speed department.

If you look at the core clock for the Pascal Titan X, it's 1417MHZ. All indications are that AMD has definitely caught up, even if they are using Glofo's 14nm FinFET while Nviida is using TSMC's 16nm FinFET.

TLDR version: AMD is more than touching Nvidia. They are

 

[Polygonal_Sprite]

Thanks for the answers people, very interesting. I'm very excited for Scorpio !

 

[dgrdsv]

http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/radeon-instinct-2016dec12.aspx



Ultimately what it means is proper consumer parts with proper, dedicated cooling will almost assuredly have higher core clocks. It looks as if AMD may have finally closed the core clock speed gap with Nvidia.

What it means is that there are some selected Vega 10 chips able to work on such clocks with such consumption. Such chips cost a shitton and that's why you see them launching in Instinct lineup several months prior to them becoming the base of a new Radeon. It remains to be seen if the same specs will be possible for a wider selling consumer part costing regular prices.

It's also very misleading to call such cards "passively cooled" as the server rack they are put into is not passively cooled at all.

 

[FutureProtagonist]

http://www.amd.com/en-us/press-releases/Pages/radeon-instinct-2016dec12.aspx



Ultimately what it means is proper consumer parts with proper, dedicated cooling will almost assuredly have higher core clocks. It looks as if AMD may have finally closed the core clock speed gap with Nvidia.

It's not exactly passively cooled. When they say passive cooling, what they mean is that there is no dedicated cooling on the GPU itself, however, this is a server chip, and server chassis come equipped with very powerful fans; these fans are what will be doing the job of cooling designs like AMD's. I think both AMD and NV have had passively cooled, high power consumption chips before.

As for consumer chips boosting higher? It's possible, but don't count your ducks before they're hatched. Make no mistake, the MI25 chips have plenty of active cooling requirements.

The Mi25 is competing directly against Nvidia's Tesla P100 GPU,

That Tesla P100 has a core clock of 1328MHZ, with a boost up to 1480MHZ. Tesla p100 is a 300W TDP part also.

Nvidia Chip does 21.2 Tflops half precision, 10.6 Tflops Single, and 5.3 Tflops Double.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/10433/nvidia-announces-pci-express-tesla-p100

The Vega 10 Mi25 we're looking at has a core clock of 1526MHZ (no idea on boost yet) Has a TDP of 225W.

AMD Chip does 25Tflops half precision, 12.5Tflops Single, and 675Gflops Double (the rate for the AMD chip for 64 bit is 1/16 compared to Nvidia's 1/2 rate, hence Nvidia easily comes out on top there.

http://wccftech.com/amd-vega-10-20-slides-double-precision-performance-1500-mhz-vega-10-x2-2017/

I don't see AMD doing nearly as bad as you think they are.

If I go ahead and include the 300W Vega, things get uglier depending on what you look at, but we have an estimated clock of 1100MHZ for that right now.

The P100 is based on a bigger Pascal X, but even then Vega compares very favorably. (The Vega Chip arguably does even better compared to Pascal Titan X, but the GP102 isn't aimed at the same market as P100, so not a big deal)

All signs right now are that AMD has potentially finally caught up to Nvidia in the core clock speed department.

If you look at the core clock for the Pascal Titan X, it's 1417MHZ. All indications are that AMD has definitely caught up, even if they are using Glofo's 14nm FinFET while Nviida is using TSMC's 16nm FinFET.

I agree that Vega does look promising, but AMD does not seem to have caught NV in clock speeds. You mentioned the Titan XP and its boost clocks; the ones listed on paper are before GPU boost.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/Titan_X_Pascal/28.html

From that page, you can see that it manages 1692MHz on average, and then there's its power consumption at that frequency.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/NVIDIA/Titan_X_Pascal/22.html

205W "typical gaming", which is less than the targeted TDP on Vega 10, 225W, and we don't actually know how much power it will actually consume. The RX 480 consumes about 15W over its paper TDP.

One final note on frequency; I have a Titan XP and with its power and temperature target unlocked, with an overclock, I can hit about 1930 MHz on average; most Pascal chips can manage 2100. It's clear that the TXP is held back by the cooling and possibly the PCB as well. When the 1080 Ti releases, it will come in custom designs without these limitations, and will easily hit above 2000MHz on average. Given that the Titan XP gains 19% (from the techpowerup review) from overclocking even with its crappy cooler, the overclocked and out of the box custom 1080 Tis are going to be monsters, just like the 980 Ti, where it was common for custom designs to be 15-20% faster than reference out of the box.

https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_980_Ti_Gaming/30.html
https://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/Gigabyte/GTX_980_Ti_XtremeGaming/23.html

I'm dying to see something really great from AMD, but they're up against a lot when it comes to beating GP100.

 

[icespide]

Scalebound

 

[FalsettoVibe]

Scalebound

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1332178

 

[flkraven]

Scalebound

I don't know who is more petty at this point.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1332178

EEE - He got you bro! *drake voice

 

[bidguy]

i say this is a good time for some juicy spec leaks.

 

[HotHamBoy]

Do we expect this system to do well at a premium pricepoint and very few exclusives to enhance?

The Pro will probably be cheaper by then. The Switch will be out and might have a compelling library.

Seems like all the appeal about this machine is the specs, but is that mainstream or is this a niche product?

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Do we ex5oect this system to do well at a premium pricepoint and very few exclusives to enhance?

just expect any dynamic res game to benefit from the xbox scorpio.

price is subject to what ms thinks is premium.

also no exclusive games (only VR because the current xbox one is too weak to play them)

 

[BeforeU]

Do we expect this system to do well at a premium pricepoint and very few exclusives to enhance?

The Pro will probably be cheaper by then. The Switch will be out and might have a compelling library.

Seems like all the appeal about this machine is the specs, but is that mainstream or is this a niche product?

lol majority buy console for 3rd party.

 

[nekkid]

There's a lot of people who will go to the best console to play RDR2.

 

[Bits N Pieces]

Scalebound

lol, enjoying all the drama?

 

[icespide]

lol, enjoying all the drama?

not at all. I am pissed

 

[Samurai G0SU]

There's a lot of people who will go to the best console to play RDR2.

This will be an interesting time to see how marketing plays out. Will a lot of folks leave their established ps4 ecosystem this far in? I think Sony has the marketing for RDR2 too right?

 

[Zedox]

No power that Scorpio has is gonna make me buy it this year because of Scalebound...unless some other game hypes me up...as Sea of Thieves really doesn't need a graphical powerhouse (though I do plan on getting Red Dead). *Sigh* Still interested in what Scorpio shows though.

I'm genuinely bummed about Scalebound. Really the new IP from MS that I was looking forward to the most out of any game. Now I'm just like, well...my xbox will be my 3rd party and Halo box. MS needs to show some spectacular games for their ecosystem for me to get excited again.

MS and Sony have disappointed me this gen (so far). Only big new IP that I'm looking forward to is Horizon (but I'm not buying PS for that game right now...I'll wait a bit).

 

[Into the Light]

You can be sure bottle necking will take place. Its such a sad state of affairs.

 

[belvedere]

Still hopeful for Scorpio but my justifications for simply investing in my PC seem to be increasing.

 

[DXMGT]

Still hopeful for Scorpio but my justifications for simply investing in my PC seem to be increasing.

I mean why wouldn't you at this point?

 

[CrimsonEclipse]

No power that Scorpio has is gonna make me buy it this year because of Scalebound...unless some other game hypes me up...as Sea of Thieves really doesn't need a graphical powerhouse (though I do plan on getting Red Dead). *Sigh* Still interested in what Scorpio shows though.

I'm genuinely bummed about Scalebound. Really the new IP from MS that I was looking forward to the most out of any game. Now I'm just like, well...my xbox will be my 3rd party and Halo box. MS needs to show some spectacular games for their ecosystem for me to get excited again.

MS and Sony have disappointed me this gen (so far). Only big new IP that I'm looking forward to is Horizon (but I'm not buying PS for that game right now...I'll wait a bit).

Don't wanna derail the thread about scalebound but yes I agree. MS is gonna need one hell of a fucking showing at E3 I think personally, and looking at their current situation...I highly doubt that is going to happen. Scorpio, the hardware won't be enough...but time will tell I suppose.

I hope they realize how big of an E3 this will be for them.

 

[TechnicPuppet]

I mean why wouldn't you at this point?

I looked at building a PC. RX480 alone was gonna cost £240.

 

[belvedere]

I mean why wouldn't you at this point?

Honestly man as long as I've been gaming via PC, now as a Dad it's so much easier pairing up with my friends on console. I'm so tired of unexpected issues preventing me from enjoying MP games with friends. Its always something.

 

[DXMGT]

I looked at building a PC. RX480 alone was gonna cost £240.

Yea, PC is going to cost more, but you get more and make back the extra money you spend on much cheaper games and free online. You also get all of the huge number of PC exclusives you wont get on Scorpio.

I totally get why you'd just want a console over a PC but if you're in the market for a Scorpio you clearly want high end graphics and PC is the highest end. + with all Xbox exclusives coming to PC in the future I see no reason not to.

This post looks bad doesn't it?

Honestly man as long as I've been gaming via PC, now as a Dad it's so much easier pairing up with my friends on console. I'm so tired of unexpected issues preventing me from enjoying MP games with friends. Its always something.

I personally have no such problems but I don't play online much any more. But yea there's a comfort to consoles for sure.

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Do we expect this system to do well at a premium pricepoint and very few exclusives to enhance?

The Pro will probably be cheaper by then. The Switch will be out and might have a compelling library.

Seems like all the appeal about this machine is the specs, but is that mainstream or is this a niche product?

If anything, you can say Xbox One doesn't have exclusive since last year.
And yet it didn't get any negative sales affect, so i don't think Scorpio will have problem without exclusive, because pretty much everyone knows it won't have any exclusive since last year E3, even VR games i bet it just porting PC VR games.

 

[nekkid]

Perfect time to drop some good news, Phil...

 

[RoKKeR]

Perfect time to drop some good news, Phil...

There's definitely going to be some lingering negativity about the Xbox brand (at least with their online presence) until they start to make announcements for the year. Wonder when that will be.

 

[vonStirlitz]

Is Scorpio bound to scale at 4K on all games?

If so, it will be an absolute beast. A dragon amongst consoles.

 

[Strootman]

Lost all the hype for this console. And I probably won't buy it anymore unless they show concrete plans and games for the future. Which I higly doubt. They will sign some third party timed exclusives + announce a new Forza and Halo, this is what I expect them to do.

 

[wesleyshark]

Is Scorpio bound to scale at 4K on all games?

If so, it will be an absolute beast. A dragon amongst consoles.

::triggered::

 

[Magic Mushroom]

Is Scorpio bound to scale at 4K on all games?

If so, it will be an absolute beast. A dragon amongst consoles.

I see what you did there.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

Is Scorpio bound to scale at 4K on all games?

If so, it will be an absolute beast. A dragon amongst consoles.

toosoon

 

[univbee]

Is Scorpio bound to scale at 4K on all games?

If so, it will be an absolute beast. A dragon amongst consoles.

-kisses fingers like an Italian chef-

 

[RPGamer92]

Is Scorpio bound to scale at 4K on all games?

If so, it will be an absolute beast. A dragon amongst consoles.

It will be a console of legends. Fables will be written about it.

 

[Jaguar Victory]

Yea, PC is going to cost more, but you get more and make back the extra money you spend on much cheaper games and free online. You also get all of the huge number of PC exclusives you wont get on Scorpio.

I totally get why you'd just want a console over a PC but if you're in the market for a Scorpio you clearly want high end graphics and PC is the highest end. + with all Xbox exclusives coming to PC in the future I see no reason not to.

This post looks bad doesn't it?



I personally have no such problems but I don't play online much any more. But yea there's a comfort to consoles for sure.

Thanks for coming to the Scorpio thread to tell people to get a PC. (Not everyone wants to game on PC exclusively)

 

[Maximilian Kolbe]

Lost all the hype for this console. And I probably won't buy it anymore unless they show concrete plans and games for the future. Which I higly doubt. They will sign some third party timed exclusives + announce a new Forza and Halo, this is what I expect them to do.

Why would they? that just waste of money.
People may mock their Forza Halo Gears only and that's understandable(for people mocking them playing too safe), but at least these 3 series keep making money for them, meanwhile timed exclusives pretty much tells you helped nothing, if we look back for the timed exclusives they signed.

 

[dreamcastfan]

Next Time they have a Project they are working on, I hope they finish it. It's the fans that Gotham where they are to start with, so instead of Racing around trying to make other games, just give us the games you know we want.

 

[Theorry]

Next Time they have a Project they are working on, I hope they finish it. It's the fans that Gotham where they are to start with, so instead of Racing around trying to make other games, just give us the games you know we want.

Dont get why people want PGR. We have enough Forza games on the horizon.

 

[comshoplesce]

If I say Forza and Halo is not for me, why would I buy XBOX at all?

Just wondering. All i see games for XBOX only are

ORI, STATE OF DECAY, RECORE
+ few more, and that's it? Kinda sad, isn't it?

 

[Theorry]

If I say Forza and Halo is not for me, why would I buy XBOX at all?

Just wondering. All i see games for XBOX only are

ORI, STATE OF DECAY, RECORE
+ few more, and that's it? Kinda sad, isn't it?

Cant you say that for every console? For example. Last of Us and Uncharted arent for me.
Horizon Zero Dawn, GT sport, Persona 5 + few more

 

[gamz]

If I say Forza and Halo is not for me, why would I buy XBOX at all?

Just wondering. All i see games for XBOX only are

ORI, STATE OF DECAY, RECORE
+ few more, and that's it? Kinda sad, isn't it?

It's not sad if you like Forza, Halo, Gears.

 

[opricnik]

If I say Forza and Halo is not for me, why would I buy XBOX at all?

Just wondering. All i see games for XBOX only are

ORI, STATE OF DECAY, RECORE
+ few more, and that's it? Kinda sad, isn't it?

Why would you buy a something if you are not interested what it is ? It seems obvious tbh

 

[Lom1lo]

Yup lost almost all interessed. They need to show nice new games to make me wanna buy this. But I dont think there will be something new. I Hope Im wrong but this scalebound news hit hard.

 

[Samurai G0SU]

If I say Forza and Halo is not for me, why would I buy XBOX at all?

Just wondering. All i see games for XBOX only are

ORI, STATE OF DECAY, RECORE
+ few more, and that's it? Kinda sad, isn't it?

Yes - we all have the same tastes in games as you.

You're right, it's kinda sad.

 

[borges]

If I say Forza and Halo is not for me, why would I buy XBOX at all?

Just wondering. All i see games for XBOX only are

ORI, STATE OF DECAY, RECORE
+ few more, and that's it? Kinda sad, isn't it?

Gears? Or any other of the hundreds of amazing third party games available. A console its not just its exclusives.

 

[Lichter]

The only announcements we get from them are studios closing and games cancelled.

Why the hell would you put ressources onto releasing a new console when you can't even put out games.

I'm being a bit emotional because of Scalebound but when you see the bigger picture the future of Xbox is very foggy.

DISAPPOINTED!