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Xbox Scarlett could be a generation forward respect the Playstation 5.

IbizaPocholo

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Sony and Microsoft have both already lifted the lid on their AMD-based next-generation consoles, but it seems that they may not be created equal. The extent of their partnerships with AMD seems to have been hidden in plain sight. Sony has been collaborating with AMD, whereas Microsoft has co-engineered a custom graphics chip.

The result is that the next PlayStation will feature custom 7 nm AMD Ryzen Zen 2 and Radeon Navi architectures, while the Xbox Scarlett will include "next generation Radeon RDNA gaming graphics architecture" as announced by Lisa Su, CEO and President of AMD. AMD has confirmed that next-generation RDNA will be based on a 7 nm+ FinFET process, which will support hardware-based real-time ray-tracing and next-gen RDNA. By contrast, the 7 nm Navi architecture will only be capable of shader-based ray tracing and current gen RDNA.

In short, the next generation of PlayStation and Xbox games consoles look set to be separated by a generation of graphics technology. The in-game effect of the difference between "GCN and RDNA" and "Next Gen RDNA" is unknown at this stage, but it seems bizarre that Sony would allow itself to slip a generation in graphics technology behind Microsoft. AMD is certainly painting things that way, anyway.
 

Pagusas

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I wonder if AMD has internal teams keeping secrets from one another? Like if you are Sony’s sales rep, how do you keep from spilling the beans about what Ms is doing?
 

jakinov

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I wonder if AMD has internal teams keeping secrets from one another? Like if you are Sony’s sales rep, how do you keep from spilling the beans about what Ms is doing?
Need to know basis and NDA to help ensure that. They can keep secrets for two different companies.
 
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Kazza

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I hope this is true. Digital Foundry is going to be pretty boring next gen if the hardware in both PS5/Xbox4 ends up being the same.
 
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DiscoJer

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All I really want is in an open world driving game, to not have a building just pop into existence from out of nowhere. There are sections of Edinburgh in Forza Horizon 4 that make me recall Daytona on the Saturn.
 

Pagusas

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MS and AMD already confirmed at E3 that the next Xbox will be using Navi.
When was that said, all the articles posted so far say MS is using “the latest RDNA GPUs”. https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/9/18656608/microsoft-new-xbox-hardware-specs-price-release-date-e3-2019

Microsoft is including a custom-designed CPU based on AMD’s Zen 2 and Radeon RDNA architecture, and it’s promising this new console will be four times more powerful than the Xbox One X.
 
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meirl

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Sounds like PR talk is already spinning.
What? Not really. Microsoft already confirmed that the new Xbox will support hardware-based real-time ray-tracing, did Sony ever say anything regarding this?

And real time ray tracing is HUGE and def if there are two consoles where one supports true real time ray tracing where as the other doesn’t then this is a next generation difference.

Just look at this video:
This is nextgen
 
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Leonidas

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Yeah, hardware based ray-tracing could be the only thing that separates the two. Microsoft already confirmed hardware based ray-tracing at E3.

Sony just said it supports ray-tracing, which could mean just software support.

They'll probably end up being the same, but until Sony clarifies that, this will continue to be questioned...
 

ethomaz

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When was that said, all the articles posted so far say MS is using “the latest RDNA GPUs”. https://www.theverge.com/2019/6/9/18656608/microsoft-new-xbox-hardware-specs-price-release-date-e3-2019
Watch the reveal trailer please.

But if you will deny what MS said in the trailer you can read the official PR from AMD:


BTW every single source says Navi.
 
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Dr.D00p

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All that is certain is Microsoft will not allow Xbox Two to be labelled as the weaker console this time and they have deep enough pockets to throw whatever hardware specs at it they need to ensure that isn't the case.

Having said that they will be built on the same die process and the laws of physics ensures that Xbox & Playstation will be in the same ball park when it comes to performance metrics and the differences will all come down to how much customisation of the APU & overall bandwidth each are willing to throw at it, which increases cost and cooling requirements. Sony will likely have to considerably up the cooling solution on the PS5 to ensure clock speed parity. Microsft have showed with the Xbox One X and its vapour chamber cooling that they're willing to spend big on this aspect to drive up clock speeds.

Navi also only has 'limited' ray tracing support, as stated on the AMD roadmap for 2020, so maybe reflections based RT only and no global illumination? Global illumination is the real performance killer when it comes to RT. Expect lots of games next gen with ray traced water & shiny surface reflections, but not much else.
 
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Ovek

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Is been plainly obvious for over a year that both consoles were going to be using the same base chipsets from AMD. Sony and MS might have tweaked them which will mostly just have been removing functionality of both the cpu and GPUs and other chipsets to make them cheaper.

The main pissing contest when both consoles come out will be who ran them at higher boost clocks as that will determine who hast the “fastest” console.
 
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Leonidas

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So AMD announced two consecutive generations of hardware in the same event? Very wise of them.
They technically did at the AMD conference on the following slide with their ray-tracing roadmap.


RDNA = Navi, software/shader ray-tracing
"Next Gen" RDNA = hardware accelerated ray-tracing, which is what Microsoft announced for Xbox Scarlett

I assume both consoles will be the same since they are launching at the same time, but up to this point only MS has come out and said hardware ray-tracing.
 
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ethomaz

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They technically did at the AMD conference on the following slide with their ray-tracing roadmap.


RDNA = Navi, software/shader ray-tracing
"Next Gen" RDNA = hardware accelerated ray-tracing, which is what Microsoft announced for Xbox Scarlett

I assume both consoles will be the same since they are launching at the same time, but up to this point only MS has come out and said hardware ray-tracing.
Scarlett was announced as Navi by MS, AMD and any other source in the world.

Why are people trying to make it seems like they did not confirmed Navi?
 
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ethomaz

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Navi with hardware based next-gen ray-tracing . 1st Gen RDNA Navi has no ray-tracing hardware.
Both MS and Sony hardware Ray-tracing solution as custom ones and not what AMD has for next RDNA version.

Both are using Navi with custom hardware Ray-tracing.

“This processor builds upon the significant innovation of the AMD Ryzen™ "Zen 2" CPU core and a "Navi" GPU based on next-generation Radeon™ RDNA gaming architecture including hardware-accelerated raytracing.”

BTW the source of the thread article is MisterXMedia... c’mon.
 
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Leonidas

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Both MS and Sony hardware Ray-tracing solution as custom ones and not what AMD has for next RDNA version.
All I know is MS announced hardware based next-gen ray tracing.
And the Wired article says "PS5 will support ray tracing", which could be either software or hardware. That article did not clarify their solution.
 

ethomaz

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All I know is MS announced hardware based next-gen ray tracing.
And the Wired article says "PS5 will support ray tracing", which could be either software or hardware. That article did not clarify their solution.
MS said Navi more than once at E3 video...

PS5 Wired article confirmed hardware ray-tracing too.
 
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DynamiteCop!

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Here are my thoughts.

When talking about Ray Tracing Sony completely omitted specifying that it was hardware accelerated which is a huge omission and would lend credence to it being shader based and 7nm GCN with RDNA . Given that Microsoft specified that its Ray Tracing is hardware accelerated in Scarlett it could be using 7nm+ which is full RDNA architecture and encompasses RT acceleration.

Sony also appears to be further along in development of their system than Microsoft, as I've said their development seems quite provisional while Sony's appears to already be boots on the ground in many degrees. With the customization Microsoft is doing to their chip they may be holding out slightly longer for something better. This seems to line up with some information floating around in relation to PlayStation 5 being more powerful but Scarlett being more advanced, the power difference might relate to unknown differences in architecture that on paper appear more powerful but in reality might actually not be.

For example on paper a Navi 5700 XT at 9.75 Teraflops sounds weaker than a 12.58 Teraflop Vega 64 when the context of a 1.25x PPC is not applied, in reality they are basically equals.
 

FranXico

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The slide says GCN and RDNA getting software support, with only RDNA supporting it on hardware. RDNA is next-generation, GCN is not.

Where is it explicit that there are two generations of RDNA?
 

DynamiteCop!

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Both MS and Sony hardware Ray-tracing solution as custom ones and not what AMD has for next RDNA version.

Both are using Navi with custom hardware Ray-tracing.

“This processor builds upon the significant innovation of the AMD Ryzen™ "Zen 2" CPU core and a "Navi" GPU based on next-generation Radeon™ RDNA gaming architecture including hardware-accelerated raytracing.”

BTW the source of the thread article is MisterXMedia... c’mon.
At no point and no where did Sony ever state anything about their RT being hardware accelerated.

Don't try to bullshit people who've been keeping tabs on all of this.
 

Leonidas

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The slide says GCN and RDNA getting software support, with only RDNA supporting it on hardware. RDNA is next-generation, GCN is not.

Where is it explicit that there are two generations of RDNA?
It's right there in the slide. RDNA and Next Gen RDNA are not the same thing.

There is no mention of hardware based ray-tracing. If you read the article you'd see that...