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Xbox Series S and Xbox Series X are are at least 50/50 in terms of install base in major territories

Kokoloko85

Member
But you suggested the X would outsell the S. Once these things are routinely available, casuals will most likely get an S though. Even MS expects that. Which is why I felt you were implying casuals will prefer the more expensive version.
I think when series X is in stock it will sell more then series S. Especially in a year or so.
Maybe im wrong and the cheap price make series S sell more.
The fact they are even and there are still Series S in stock makes me think X is more wanted.

Series S selling only 3 million in a year and stock being available doesn’t make me think its doing amazing
 

Topher

Gold Member
I looked at the article and those numbers are no where to be seen btw. So I don't know how he arrives at these numbers.

It is in the chart at the bottom of the article

Sony PlayStation5
Q4 Shipments total
7.8~80,000 pieces

Microsoft XBOXSeriesX/S
Q4 Shipments total
13.8~40,000 pieces
 
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Riky

My little VRR pleasure pearl goes vrrrooommm.
Series S backordered at Amazon.co.uk
Even if the Series S is readily available in the EU right now, there will be stock shortages this holiday for the Series S in Europe.
The Series X will continue to sell out instantly.

Last year at this time, the Xbox One, got it second price drop.


Not surprised, Argos have been in and out of stock and now Amazon. It's going to sell out this Christmas.
 
BTW your others question.

150mm wafer can fit around:

- 229 308mm2 APUs (PS5).
- 197 360mm2 APUs (Series X).
- 358 197mm2 APUs (Series S).

Of course that doesn't account defectives.

In PS5 case is easier to reach a number... imagine from 229 you have 200 good (29 defectives)... 80k wafers give you 16 million APUs in 2021 (that fits the current Sony Forecast).
For MS is trick because we don't know how many of 40k wafers are being used to Series X or Series S.
These numbers don't seem right, at least when using this yield calculator: https://caly-technologies.com/die-yield-calculator/

I get 137 dies per wafer for PS5.
 

Rykan

Member
All MS games will be on PC and will need to support a wide range of configs including older/weaker ones than the SS. Forza Horizon 5 min spec is a GTX970, a card from 2014. And yet the game looks next-gen according to most reviews.


There’s too much nonsense to address all of it but how do you know the SS and SX are equally easy to source in terms of components? Unless you have anything to back it then you’re just guessing.

If it was the case that both are equally easy to produce then you’d think MS would have readjusted the production in the whole year that happened since launch.

Generally speaking it’s amazing to see the usual suspects rewriting their narrative in real time from « it sells 0, worse than the Ouya, least desirable etc » to « well ok it sells but only because people can’t find the Series X », still no proof of that but that’s progress I suppose.
Everyone is "just guessing" because nobody has access to supply stock numbers or production lines. The series S and X have very similar components aside from a different GPU and RAM difference so its fair to assume that there is a fair bit overlap and who is to say that they haven't readjusted their production schedule since then?

Again, it's worth repeating that it is not normal for a current gen console to not be sold out almost instantly. The PS5 and the PS5DE are instantly sold out. The Series X is instantly sold out. Switch Oled is sold out. The ONLY system that isn't sold out is the Series S.

MS and Sony both released their new systems around the same time. Both have two seperate models and both are dealing with supply issues. One of them is able to sell out both of their systems instantly and pulls far ahead in sales, the other is only able to sell out one system and the other is sitting on shelves. Its hard to not imagine that a different allocation of resources isn't a contributing factor here.

The only narrative rewriting thats being done here is the series S defense force claiming that that a 50-50 split means that there is equal demand for both consoles or even more ridiculous, claiming that the Series S will be the leading Xbox in sales.
 
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MikeM

Member
Reasons:
1. There are more Series S' out in the wild than Series X's. People buying what they can actually get their hands on.
2. Parents buying a Series S for little Timmy.
3. Costs in certain countries make the Series S far more affordable than Series X.
 
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Godot25

Member
Maybe because MS undershipped the XSX and overshipped the cheaper console?

I dont know. I think it's weird for MS to produce just 4 million XSX, a console they proudly proclaimed the most powerful console ever made. Especially when Sony was able to produce 13 million PS5s in the same period. If I had designed the XSX, I would be pretty upset that 4 million out of the 8 million next gen Xbox owners are not getting the best console out there because my bosses decided to allocate the shipments 50-50.

The hardcore were always going to buy the more powerful Xbox. They sold 10 million Xbox Ones in the first year, and for 6 months that console was $100 more expensive than the PS4, and came with the kinect. The hardcore Xbox owners wouldve gone out and bought all 8 million Xbox Series X consoles.

Just a massive miscalculation by MS. They have cost themselves $200 of revenue for 4 million consoles. This is a console that should be sold once they have saturated the hardcore market at around 20-30 million. Then and only then they shouldve allocated more series s units to get the casuals onboard.
Miscalcuation? Nope. They just had different priorities. Series X chips has also gone to xCloud upgrades and fruit of that work you can clearly see today (You can play Series X/S native games on One). And since that is completed, they can focus on building consoles.

Also, it's Christmas season. And since Series S will be probably only console on shelves, which console will parents buy for their children? Yup, Series S.
And tbh, I think that Microsoft is more profitable in selling Series S then Series X. Half a storage, no blu ray drive, a lot smaller chip, cheaper cooling, cheaper box.

"Hardcore" people who wants a Series X will wait for it. Microsoft still don't have only Series X/S game outside of Flight Sim and Medium. But Microsoft can catch many people during holiday season.
 

SlimySnake

Member
will say this again: the opinions of NeoGAF are NOT representative of the marketplace.
lmao. You think? This is a forum for hardcore gamers. Forgive us for asking MS to properly stock the more powerful console.

And what difference does it make if gaf is not representative of the market? The market is full of noobs who play dumb yearly sports games like Fifa, NBA, Madden. Casuals who do nothing but play Fortnite all year. CoD is the biggest game year in and year out and no one rightly gives a fuck enough to even create an OT for it. We just have higher standards.

Imagine going to a movie forum and shitting on the userbase because they only like high quality movies instead of casual summer blockbusters. They dont like forgettable Marvel and DC movies? What a bunch of losers, am I right?
 

ethomaz

Banned
I looked at the article and those numbers are no where to be seen btw. So I don't know how he arrives at these numbers.
So you can't read.
There is even a picture lol

I will translate to you using Google...

"第四季兩款遊戲機處理器的晶圓出貨量合計接近12萬片".



萬片= Ten thousand pieces

Edit - You know what... I won't translate at all... you don't deserve others work in your nonsense.
 
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Well true not odd per say, but its not like ms is lightweight in the market either. They knew they needed to build a lot, and money hats goes a long way. I mean throw 6 billion at a software company they could have thrown 2 billion at this problem too.......

You can't bribe a chip fab to give you more capacity. You'd fall afoul of anti-trust laws. Think critically.
 

FrankWza

Member
The only narrative rewriting thats being done here is the series S defense force claiming that that a 50-50 split means that there is equal demand for both consoles or even more ridiculous, claiming that the Series S will be the leading Xbox in sales.
Yeah. The speculation is that the x chips are being used for cloud servers. S success is a matter of circumstance more than it is demand. The secondary market is the best indicator of that, Especially where we are in the world today. The premium consoles are going for 40-60% over retail on a consistent basis. Shit, I could have sold my Elden ring code for $300. People were willing to pay $60 a session for that. The entire industry is booming. I think the best thing to take from this is that microsoft missed an opportunity to use the big war chest and make a digital x and sell it for $349.99 with a similar SSD capacity and take a small loss and really put a dent in things. I know they are trying to make xbox a service that is available everywhere but the simplicity of the console and its appeal is still viable and they could have done the same with an all digital x. I can’t believe that they wanted to not have series x available when they are releasing their 2 flagship franchises that have been synonymous with their brand for 1-2 decades.
 

ethomaz

Banned
It is in the chart at the bottom of the article

Sony PlayStation5
Q4 Shipments total
7.8~80,000 pieces

Microsoft XBOXSeriesX/S
Q4 Shipments total
13.8~40,000 pieces
He is just trolling at this point.

BTW it is 78000-80000 and 38000-40000 wafers.
 
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elliot5

Member
Series S is great and plays in to Microsoft's cloud plans, too. They can effectively double their scale of users in the cloud by having that profile running on the Series X blades. It's all there for a reason.
 
Are you trolling?

Even if you doesn't change anything and just put 12.5mm x 24mm there you will get 184 in that calculator.
In that same calculator Series X gives 156 chips.
You need to use the calculator correctly. It's 137 for PS5. You probably forgot to set wafer diameter to 300 mm.
 

ethomaz

Banned
You need to use the calculator correctly. It's 137 for PS5. You probably forgot to set wafer diameter to 300 mm.
174 in that calculator.

183 if you choose to not check die centering… that makes no sense to check btw because every company chooses the layout that gives more chips and not exactly centering one die at center makes the most chips per wafer.
 
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174 in that calculator.

183 if you choose to not check die centering… that makes no sense to check btw because every company chooses the layout that gives more chips and not exactly centering one die at center makes the most chips per wafer.
Ah, now I get it. You're looking at the total number of dies, including defective ones. I'm looking at the number of actually functional dies. That's what matters after all.
 

CrustyBritches

Gold Member
Neither has contract with TSMC.

They have contract with AMD.
AMD has a contract with TSMC for 150k 7nm wafers for 2021... from these 80% (120k) are allocated to consoles with Sony getting 80k wafers and MS 40k wafers.

AMD sells the chips already produced and tested to Sony/MS... that is why the defectives are used by AMD and not Sony/MS.
Exactly my point
 

ethomaz

Banned
Ah, now I get it. You're looking at the total number of dies, including defective ones. I'm looking at the number of actually functional dies. That's what matters after all.
There is no way to know how many chips will be defectives.
Did you choose a random number?
 
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twilo99

Member
the s will have a solid holiday season if they bring the price down $249.99 , which I think they might do..

Its an amazing machine for the price as is..
 

Plantoid

Member
I'm a salesman, let me tell you, most people buying consoles are parents, they don't even know what 4k or hdr is, they don't care, when I tell em that they can pay a monthly sub and never buy games again they get shocked, also, series S is always available here and it's price is below the normal PS4

Also, lots of people don't have 4k TV's yet in my country and I'm sure in a lot others

Gamepass has localized pricing here and is cheaper than Netflix

Remember, Ms wants gamepass subs, that's the end goal

I believe series S will be dominant for the entire gen
 

twilo99

Member
Think it might be an unofficially price drop or more likely for me, a GP bundle

There will certainly be some sort of promotion/sale with the series S and I'm looking forward to it..

Will be watching what Costco comes up with, they are usually pretty good when it comes to bundles.
 

Claus Grimhildyr

Vincit qui se vincit
It shrinks every year, stop trying to make it sound like it's making a comeback. I haven't barely touched a disk in 10 years and don't miss it one bit. Why?

- All my games are available to me at any time
No. They only are if you are connected to the internet. Meanwhile physical all the games I want *are* available to me at any time, provided I bring them with me which is incredibly easy to do. There is never a point in time in long travel sessions that I would need all my games at the drop of a hat.
- They can be played on 2 consoles at the same time - this cannot be understated
I will give you this, but its also not a very useful tool unless you have a large family that all want to play the same games at the same exact time.
- Multiple games on multiple systems simultaneously without running to see which room the disk is in or having to buy 3 copies.
Same as above.
- I can see at a glance and load any of the 400+ games I own. Search by name, release date, size, etc.
I can do the same. And faster since I don’t have to wait on downloading. Just put the disc/cart in and play.
- They never get scratched
This is only an issue if you have shitty kids who don’t know how to take care of your stuff, or you are a mess of an adult who can’t take care of their stuff.
- They never get stolen
They can get stolen. As soon as you lose access to your account. Which is a lot easier to do than stealing a bunch of physical games.
- They never fail to get returned when borrowed
This is only an issue with kids and dumbasses who make friends with other dumbasses.
- I can always easily re-load them (yes with disk you do this too but then usually do an large update as well.......)
Very, very rarely do I have to “get a large update”. And if I do, its still *shorter* than having to download the entire game again.
- Games are on sale all the time on the estore, sometimes the physical store is cheaper, sometimes the electronic version is cheaper, it's a wash. How much you want to bet all the games in the Wal-mart and the Gamestop black friday flyer are the exact same price online?
Neither are better or wrose than each other. Physical has great deals and Digital has great deals.
- I imagine quick resume becomes slow resume if you are finding and swapping disks in between..........if you know what I mean
This is not a necessary or all that great of a feature. Really only useful if you play almost only MP games or have the attention span of a toddler.
So for many people, having a disk drive literally has zero value, it's just one more part that will never be used.
The very minor problem of not owning the disk if the world comes to an end doesn't faze me, nor do I care if they "take it away" in 20 years. By then I won't care.
And yes I know I lose out on the trade in value but I tend to buy them on sale anyhow, and honestly most of the people on here who champion disk version claim it to play it a long time later so I don't get that argument for them.
The pros far, far outweigh the cons.

As I just showed, they don’t. The Pros are great for people with short sighted views that do not care about owning or having control over the things they purchase As the cons at that point become completely negligable. For anyone who actually wants to *own* their games and have control on when, where, and how they can be used, Physical is better. Objectively.
 
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DarkMage619

Report me if I continue to console war
After so many armchair analysts predicted the XSS would be discontinued quickly we now see that, in fact, there is a market for a console targeted at the price conscious customer. A console parents can get their kids a console a casual gamer can play whatever mass market or free to play title they enjoy.

Never before has a lower end device gotten so much unfair and unreasonable criticism. Nvidia makes low end graphics cards every generation and no one states they are holding back gaming on the PC. Every disingenuous comment blaming MS because a 3rd party publisher CHOSE to omit a feature on the XSS shows again that the commentary was more about attacking the Xbox brand over a genuine concern for console gaming.

I'm glad to see gamers have options when it comes to how they get their games and that is what it is really about. There isn't a better value in the console space especially when you look at prices competing platforms ask for. I hope the system continues to get the well deserved success and look forward to seeing what both the XSX and XSS can do when devs take full advantage of the hardware feature set.
 

DragonNCM

Member
I don't know numbers....but I know that last week when I was in electronic market, there was XSX & XSS (2 consoles XSX & 5 consoles XSS) & two dudes (over 40y) where debating about games.
So, I joined the discussion & they debated also how they can't find PS5 & they are considering Xbox console. They are all life hardcore PlayStation funs but are sick of waiting.
So they asked me what is the difference from XSX & XSS & I started to explain.....
XSX 12TF......PROCESOR....16GB DDR6 RAM.......Custom Zen 2 8X Cores CPU...SSD......
XSS 4TF.....PROCESOR....10GB DDR6 RAM...and in that explanation one of them asked me...."Dude....we are asking if there are same games as PS5".
Like what games I asked ?
COD, Fifa, Forthnight, NBA, PES, driving games like GT.....so yeah games are there, same quality as on PS5 & specifically told them that XSS has lower resolution & no 4K support but they don't care about that, they already decided that will take XSS because lower price & will wait next year so they can take PS5.
So they picked up XSS (2 consoles) & asked me about games & where they can buy them. Then I told them about gamepass & it's futures. They didn't know about that also & asked me to activate gamepass for bot of them in the store.
They left happy & satisfied. Meanwhile 2 XSX still are not sold week later.
Oh & yesterday one of them contacted me & was rely happy & thankful about my support.
 

dvdvideo

Member
No. They only are if you are connected to the internet. Meanwhile physical all the games I want *are* available to me at any time, provided I bring them with me which is incredibly easy to do. There is never a point in time in long travel sessions that I would need all my games at the drop of a hat.

And I am connected to the internet 99.9999999% of the time, this is a non issue. If you can't live without your games for a couple of hours one day out of every year, there is other problems.......
And usually this co-insides with a power outage......which renders the console and tv useless.


I will give you this, but its also not a very useful tool unless you have a large family that all want to play the same games at the same exact time.

Not even a large family, a family who happens to play in different rooms at different times. Not even possible with physical disks.


Same as above.

Yes it's all about convenience. Why would I want to make it harder?

I can do the same. And faster since I don’t have to wait on downloading. Just put the disc/cart in and play.

Not true, often if you haven't played you would have to do a big update (which by the way needs the internet) and I don't have to wait as my game auto update. Also you cannot search by title, or by release date, you can only scan your wall like a row of books.


This is only an issue if you have shitty kids who don’t know how to take care of your stuff, or you are a mess of an adult who can’t take care of their stuff.

No real counter so you resort to childish name calling and swearing? Ok. Discs do get damaged, even by adults. Sometimes even by the game consoles themselves.

They can get stolen. As soon as you lose access to your account. Which is a lot easier to do than stealing a bunch of physical games.

LOL, no, they can't get past a proper password and 2 factor authentication, good luck with that argument. Someone is probably wayyyyyyy more likely to rob your house than get control of my MS account, Sony account and Nintendo Accounts.

This is only an issue with kids and dumbasses who make friends with other dumbasses.

Again, insults instead of an actual counterpoint, but ok. Tons of people on this board can attend to having games lent to family or friends who forget or lose their games.

Very, very rarely do I have to “get a large update”. And if I do, its still *shorter* than having to download the entire game again.

Well since you have firmly established that technology isn't your thing, I doubt your dial up connection gets anything fast. No need to re-download the entire game again, most used ones are already on the drive, less used ones on backup drive. Or I can download a game in 5 - 10 minutes, unless you are a child like you like to say below, this isn't an issue.

Neither are better or wrose than each other. Physical has great deals and Digital has great deals.

Exactly, so no disadvantage either way on this point. Well maybe not, based on this there is a lot more on selection on sale digitally than physically this black Friday:

This is not a necessary or all that great of a feature. Really only useful if you play almost only MP games or have the attention span of a toddler.

So now you take to insult the many, many people on this board to who enjoy this feature? I don't think you even understand the feature if you are saying only MP games benefit from it.

As I just showed, they don’t. The Pros are great for people with short sighted views that do not care about owning or having control over the things they purchase As the cons at that point become completely negligable. For anyone who actually wants to *own* their games and have control on when, where, and how they can be used, Physical is better. Objectively.

The only thing you showed is that you live in the past, and that for you physical happens to be your preference. You should perhaps one day read the terms on conditions of the games you "own", technically it's just a license to play it, you don't own anything.
You claim I don't have control over where when and how I can play my games, yet from what I see, I have more of that than you do. (I can play them in more places more easily)
As to short sighted, I don't care if I can play Forza 5 in 2040, I'll be playing something much better at that point. If I can still fire it up, great, if not, who cares.
Your also not factoring in the likelihood of optical drive failure, which with moving parts is much greater the rest of the machine, so it may not even run in 20 years.

I suppose you won't watch a show on netflix or disney plus or hulu since you don't own them? I mean you won't own them so you must be buying all your movies and TV shows too.
 
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EdGalTBR

Member
My prediction of the long game (that I've already said before at XSS launch) is that the Series S is being primed for a set-top box given away "free/heavily subsidized" with a paid subscription to Gamepass once they can cost down the box and bundle some other streaming services with it.
I can see the Series S getting a price cut in 2022 to U$249,90. And a U$199,90 smaller revision in 2023.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
This isn’t going to have much of an impact until we get further into this generation. What is MS’s strategy going to be on next gen games, if they’re weaker console is selling better than their stronger one? I still think the XSS will hold back this generation as the years go by unfortunately, but currently it’s a decent buy for GamePass.
 

reksveks

Member
I still think the XSS will hold back this generation as the years go by unfortunately, but currently it’s a decent buy for GamePass.
I was thinking about this morning randomly but do we have any third party next gen only games that's also on PC. I just want to see what kind of PC specs those are requiring.
 
This isn’t going to have much of an impact until we get further into this generation. What is MS’s strategy going to be on next gen games, if they’re weaker console is selling better than their stronger one? I still think the XSS will hold back this generation as the years go by unfortunately, but currently it’s a decent buy for GamePass.
Graphics are easily scalable. It won't be an issue. The one thing that will happen is that towards the end of the gen, games might look pretty rough on the XSS.
 
it should sell very well for the holidays because of its price. casuals will eat it up. the fact that there is no stock for series x will help too as series s will be the only current gen console readily available.
 

FunkMiller

Gold Member
Graphics are easily scalable. It won't be an issue. The one thing that will happen is that towards the end of the gen, games might look pretty rough on the XSS.

You might well be right.

Previously, I would have said side by side comparisons with Ps5 exclusive games will be something of an acid test… but as it looks like they’ll all be on PC anyway, that no longer holds true.

I just find it something of a shame we no longer regard consoles as being at the forefront of video games tech. Changing times I guess.
 
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