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[mocoworm]

From the Reddit XONE forum, which is kind of an official mouthpiece for the XBOX team. Posted by a MOD.

WARNING: Xbox Support is Investigating and/or Banning Members for Fraudulent Returns of Destiny

http://www.reddit.com/r/xboxone/comments/2kq81x/warning_xbox_support_is_investigating_andor/

Do not try to lie to Xbox Customer service to get a refund on Destiny content. It is illegal. It is fraudulent. It can result in a permanent ban on your Xbox profile and a loss of all your digital content.

Clarifying: There was apparently a guide out there that gave step by step instructions on how to lie to customer support in order to get a refund.

Update 1: I've received reports (cannot attest to whether they are true) that GTs are being recorded if people contact support regarding a Destiny return. That same rep also implied that they may be checking this forum.

Update 2: Support has said: " we are not issuing any refunds for the said game that we are having issues with right now. If you want to get more information about this matter, you may reach out Bungie Support for further assistance."

Update 3: Fraudulent behavior will result in a ban, but "As long as you play by the rules, you have nothing to worry about." They cannot go into any more detail than that otherwise troublesome users may attempt to circumvent the regulations.

 

[mocoworm]

Shit! This was supposed to be a reply in the other thread (KOTAKU, Destiny thread), not a new thread.

Apologies, can a MOD please delete or move.

 

[BlackBuzzard]

Yeah you should never charge back especially a month old game.

 

[SuicidalSteve]

Maybey they just want a refund because of how much lack of content there is in the game?

 

[FDC1]

What was the motive given for the refunds? I suppose Microsoft don't usually accept them easily.

 

[iMax]

Why are people demanding Destiny refunds?

 

[Pillville]

... for Fraudulent Returns of Destin

The "y" must be DLC.

 

[jesu]

Eh if MS are handing out refunds they shouldn't be banning people for it.

Some info is missing I think.

The "y" must be DLC.

Y is exclusive to the PS4 for a year.

 

[derFeef]

Why are people demanding Destiny refunds?

I just did, basically of this vv plus the DLC crap.

Maybey they just want a refund because of how much lack of content there is in the game?

 

[Mugatu]

Only people who are performing chargebacks, not people who are just trying to get refunds. This is misleading and it says so on Reddit.

EDIT: I guess there was a guide as well? Anyone know what that said? I'm wondering what it is you could say other than some BS about your cat or dog accidentally purchasing the game for you from the online store. Either way, they seem to be banning people for trying to defraud MS which is perfectly acceptable.

 

[Welfare]

Why are people demanding Destiny refunds?

People not wanting to play the game after the expansion news?

Spoiler

Money for MCC

 

[Jonnax]

What is the definition of fraudulent returns? From what I see, it's charge backs. But also people are posting that they're offended about the season pass content stuff and are asking for refunds.

It seems like at least one person asked for it and wastold by miMicrosoft support that they can't do it and their gamertag will be on a list to be investigated for fraud.

 

[Pillville]

Eh if MS are handing out refunds they shouldn't be banning people for it.

Some info is missing I think.



Y is exclusive to the PS4 for a year.

but only if you pre-order the special edition season pass from GameStop.

 

[borghe]

If it's chargebacks, that's pretty normal. If you ever reverse a Valve charge for ANYTHING you can kiss your Steam account (and all games) goodbye. With zero recourse.

 

[iMax]

I just did, basically of this vv plus the DLC crap.

Intrigued to know how you got a refund for something you haven't bought yet. What was the problem with the core game?

 

[WrenchNinja]

Why are people demanding Destiny refunds?

Because it sucks and Bungie is screwing Xbox owners with the price of DLC

 

[iMax]

What is the definition of fraudulent returns?

Fraud is deceiving someone for financial gain.

If it's chargebacks, that's pretty normal. If you ever reverse a Valve charge for ANYTHING you can kiss your Steam account (and all games) goodbye. With zero recourse.

I can't believe this is legal.

 

[derFeef]

Intrigued to know how you got a refund for something you haven't bought yet. What was the problem with the core game?

To clarify, I got a refund for the whole (digitally purchased) game, I am not playing this game anymore. They revoked the license and I got the refund.
edit: and I might add - I played 2 hours of it the first day, then never touched it again. I will stop preordering because of hype and mild interest - its a mistake I will never make again. Also not preordering MCC for said reasons.

 

[Percy]

People not wanting to play the game after the expansion news?

Spoiler

Money for MCC

It was hardly news seeing as we knew the deal with the DLC since E3.

 

[iMax]

Because it sucks and Bungie is screwing Xbox owners with the price of DLC

But what does that have to do with Destiny? I can understand getting a refund on the Season Pass, perhaps, but not the main game.

 

[Banjo-Kazooie]

I kind of see where they are coming from...

It's been over a month since Destiny released, most stores only give you 30 days for a refund.

The "extra" DLC thing for the same price has been pretty well known since before the game released, I remember a huge topic discussing it on this very forum.

So, MAYBE you could make a case for a season pass refund, but the full game is obviously a misuse of the system.

To me it seems obvious a lot of people are taking advantage of support in this case, and are ruining it for the people who are genuine and use support for a refund once in a blue moon.

 

[Sho_Nuff82]

Well this has been a not very informative thread.

 

[Mugatu]

I can't believe this is legal.

Hard to say, as far as I know it's never really been legally tested but it seems to be standard practice. I think it's fine, charge backs should be a very, very last resort.

 

[E92 M3]

I agree about chargebacks, but there is no way a person should lose the PAID digital content. That is complete crap and something Major Nelson would not happen in their "online always" future.

 

[borghe]

Because it sucks and Bungie is screwing Xbox owners with the price of DLC

Right, but how does that DLC problem affect their core game they paid for?

"I want a refund for this car because you guys discontinued the rims I was going to buy for it"

Seriously people, we knew the exclusivity arrangement AND the price of the season pass now for months.

I agree about chargebacks, but there is no way a person should lose the PAID digital content. That is complete crap and something Major Nelson would not happen in their "online always" future.

Losing content for chargebacks? Eh..... It's a fine line. It really sucks, but at the same time you are totally circumventing the company and the policies you agree to while using the service. It's harsh, but it's also well documented on every service. Don't EVER do chargebacks. EVER!

Now if they are getting refunds from MS... Even if kind of sketchy.. Yeah, they should not lose their content. Still kind of sketchy on the players part, but the gate is supposed to be MS declining the refund. If they don't decline, MS failed at the gate, not the player.

 

[SirKhalid]

Maybey they just want a refund because of how much lack of content there is in the game?

That is not a good reason...

 

[iMax]

To clarify, I got a refund for the whole (digitally purchased) game, I am not playing this game anymore. They revoked the license and I got the refund.

What did you say to them to get the refund?

 

[ethomaz]

I really don't understand... I'm having a blast with the game with over 200 hours played... it is the most fun and addictive game I played in years.

Why people try refunds?

Well personal taste is kinda weird and interesting... maybe I'm the exception and the wait until December for the new Raid is killing me.

PS. For me content is of the game is huge for a FPS

 

[Leafhopper]

Is Destin Destiny with somehow less content?

 

[SirKhalid]

To clarify, I got a refund for the whole (digitally purchased) game, I am not playing this game anymore. They revoked the license and I got the refund.
edit: and I might add - I played 2 hours of it the first day, then never touched it again. I will stop preordering because of hype and mild interest - its a mistake I will never make again. Also not preordering MCC for said reasons.

They can't revoke the license from what I heard, they usually tell people it's a one time thing for the refund. You can try and you will be able to play the game.

 

[WrenchNinja]

But what does that have to do with Destiny? I can understand getting a refund on the Season Pass, perhaps, but not the main game.

You asked why, that is why.

 

[King_Moc]

Fraud is deceiving someone for financial gain.



I can't believe this is legal.

If you do a chargeback for something you've bought from them, as far as they're concerned it's theft.

 

[sangreal]

I wanna see the receipts

Seriously, can anyone name a person that was banned after MS decided to give them a refund? (not a chargeback) I don't see any in that reddit thread.

It seems to all just be based on this comment from a csr:

 

[iMax]

Hard to say, as far as I know it's never really been legally tested but it seems to be standard practice. I think it's fine, charge backs should be a very, very last resort.

They should, but it is the consumer's right to do so. That's why they exist. Revoking the license in question would be appropriate. Not everything.

I agree about chargebacks, but there is no way a person should lose the PAID digital content. That is complete crap and something Major Nelson would not happen in their "online always" future.

Absolutely. It's theft. Shame on Xbox.

That is not a good reason...

Normally I'd agree. But I'd argue Bungie has been guilty in misrepresenting the scope of the game, in this particular case.

 

[Quazar]

Haha this is a mess. Gg bungie, Microsoft, Sony, activision. I'm glad their is some resistance here....don't know if this is right way though.

 

[iMax]

If you do a chargeback for something you've bought from them, as far as they're concerned it's theft.

The chargeback mechanism exists purely for consumer protection. They should revoke the license in question. Not all of them.

 

[derFeef]

They can't revoke the license from what I heard, they usually tell people it's a one time thing for the refund. You can try and you will be able to play the game.

I don't own it anymore.

What did you say to them to get the refund?

That I do not like this game and I am disappointed by it's content plus the DLC thing.

 

[ethomaz]

BTW ban is ridiculous in this case.

 

[Alx]

To clarify, I got a refund for the whole (digitally purchased) game, I am not playing this game anymore. They revoked the license and I got the refund.
edit: and I might add - I played 2 hours of it the first day, then never touched it again. I will stop preordering because of hype and mild interest - its a mistake I will never make again. Also not preordering MCC for said reasons.

But what does that have to do with Destiny? I can understand getting a refund on the Season Pass, perhaps, but not the main game.

Yes I find it very "generous" from MS to refund a game just because the buyer says "I don't like it that much after all". Maybe because it's digital it doesn't cost them much in the end (and they probably don't want to discourage customers from buying digital), but it's not something I would have expected them to do. Good for those who got their money back I suppose (and shame on those who try to exploit any good gesture to their profit, as usual)

 

[piccolo85]

If you do a chargeback for something you've bought from them, as far as they're concerned it's theft.

I don't care what Valve thinks it is, to many companys are just doing what they want. I don't belive that this would be legal in the EU and companys need to be forced to obey the law.

 

[TouchMyBox]

If it's chargebacks, that's pretty normal. If you ever reverse a Valve charge for ANYTHING you can kiss your Steam account (and all games) goodbye. With zero recourse.

From what I've heard, that's false.

You lose purchasing ability but you keep your library.

 

[Bobnob]

They can't revoke the license from what I heard, they usually tell people it's a one time thing for the refund. You can try and you will be able to play the game.

They revoke the licence.

 

[Kerub]

Why are people demanding Destiny refunds?

Material wealth.

 

[iMax]

That I do not like this game and I am disappointed by it's content plus the DLC thing.

Well this isn't fraudulent at all. If they ban you, take it to the law.

 

[……forgetit]

Ummm.....am I supposed to be behind Microsoft on this? Because I am. You can't lie about a product for the sake of getting a re-fund. That's pretty illigal.

 

[Mugatu]

The chargeback mechanism exists purely for consumer protection. They should revoke the license in question. Not all of them.

Chargebacks come with (usually) big penalties for the company in question. It is there for consumer protection but only as a very last resort, when nothing else has worked. Simply not liking what you ought, especially more than a month later should not result in Microsoft or Sony or Valve being penalized. As far as I'm concerned, if you chargeback something you are saying that the company defrauded you so you should be fine with ending that relationship and so should they.

I agree this is sort of a gray area since Destiny really isn't like what they said but come one, many of these people have been playing it for over a month and it's not like this DLC and console exclusivity was a secret before launch. It's just fraud to force a refund now.

 

[iMax]

Yes I find it very "generous" from MS to refund a game just because the buyer says "I don't like it that much after all". Maybe because it's digital it doesn't cost them much in the end (and they probably don't want to discourage customers from buying digital), but it's not something I would have expected them to do. Good for those who got their money back I suppose (and shame to those who try to exploit any good gesture to their profit, as usual)

Yeah, they explicitly say they won't do this in their TOU. So props to them.

 

[borghe]

The chargeback mechanism exists purely for consumer protection. They should revoke the license in question. Not all of them.

Technically this is not true. The chargeback mechanism exists to combat fraud. The amount of evidence for a merchant file to prevent the chargeback is pretty minimal. It's there for fraud.

 

[derFeef]

Well this isn't fraudulent at all. If they ban you, take it to the law.

I don't expect them to, I am very transparent. I have at least 5 games on my One I did not touch for more than 10 minutes but I am fine with that and stand by my purchase.

 

[iMax]

Chargebacks come with (usually) big penalties for the company in question. It is there for consumer protection but only as a very last resort, when nothing else has worked. Simply not liking what you ought, especially more than a month later should not result in Microsoft or Sony or Valve being penalized. As far as I'm concerned, if you chargeback something you are saying that the company defrauded you so you should be fine with ending that relationship and so should they.

I agree this is sort of a gray area since Destiny really isn't like what they said but come one, many of these people have been playing it for over a month and it's not like this DLC and console exclusivity was a secret before launch. It's just fraud to force a refund now.

Absolutely. But I believe it's completely inappropriate to revoke all purchased game licenses. I hope customers who are affected by this chargeback everything.