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Xbox system architect Andrew Goossen on why MS made the Series S

FireFly

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That is how it is designed to work.
But this falls flat on its nose if the XSX doesn`t consistently hit its render target and you don`t want the XSS go into pre-hd territory.....
The Xbox One has been pre-HD for an entire generation in 3rd party games. I really don't see what is so terrible about a low cost console dropping into this territory, especially if reconstruction techniques improve.
 

BeardGawd

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The Series S and the reduced RAM size and bandwidth, plus lowered GPU clock speed will allow them to do some very interesting form factors in the future. I envision a Switch Hybrid like Surface device is in the cards once they hit 3/5nm. It would take 3 times as long for Sony to be able to reduce the size and price of the PS5 inorder to counter. Pretty ingenious actually.
 
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Md Ray

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Hilariously wrong.
We'll see if resolution is going to be the only difference or there's going to be a compromise of more than just resolution. My post is also based on early comments from Id Software programmers being unhappy with Series S' mem and its bandwidth situation. 🙂
 
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OrtizTwelve

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I opted for the Series S, and I’m happy with it.

For the performance, price, and design, at $299 it’s actually an impressive piece of hardware. Game pass is icing on the cake.

Gears 5 with X|S optimizations looks really, really nice, it was something I noticed immediately compared to the One S. It looks “next-gen”. Other games across the board from XBOX ONE appear to run a lot better and smoother overall. Everything is definitely faster and quicker.

I expect Microsoft will sell a lot of Series S units just because the price alone, and I think most consumers will be happy with it.

I agree the limited 512GB onboard SSD is a bit anemic for storage, but I typically only play a few games at a time and delete them. So for right now, not a big issue.

I think it’s a good entry console for next generation and worse case after a year or two I can always trade it towards a Series X once things mature.

Based on Microsoft’s past history there will likely be a refresh of the X|S hardware units in about 2 to 3 years.
 

01011001

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Dec 4, 2018
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Series X is outsold everywhere while Series S is still widely available, I'd assume there is a lot less of demand for Series S

first wave buyers are always hardcore fans. those people want a Series X.

the S might eventually take over once Christmas comes around and the word gets out there that it even exists.

but it also has the potential to completely fail, in which case we will see a lot of really half assed ports to it by third party devs
 

isual

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i do see these consoles going from 499/399 to 399/299 eventually. maybe at the 2 year time.
 

ReBurn

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I wouldn’t do sub 1080p on my 65” TV unless I had to. But BotW runs at 900p and Mario Odyssey at even less than that, and that’s not stopping people from ranking them among the best games of the generation. Actually, that console is outselling the more powerful consoles by leaps and bounds And I suspect it will continue to outsell the XSX/PS5 which are like 50 times more powerful.
The number of p's a game has isn't what makes it fun. In all of this arguing about two seconds of load time here and three FPS there and how many PCI lanes it takes to be honest about spec sheets that don't matter people seem to be forgetting why most of us started doing this. Games are fun. That's what matters.
 
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Mmnow

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jesus pal, have you never had anything to do with hardware before? That is NOT how it works at all. 120fps in pong aren`t the same as 120fps in crysis....
Different games have different requirements and here the GPU is the res and fps limiter.....
The moment the XSX struggles with its render targets all that "linear scaling" the XSS is designed for goes to hell. If a box like the XSX has drops into the 1440p range to maintain 60fps...that number is out of the question for the XSS, plain and simple.

Ubi would have to do some serious optimization work here......
Jesus pal, have you never done any reading before?

At least you've got enough ranting in for everybody.

Here's a summary of the conversation so far. The Series X won't be held back by the Series S because they're targeting different resolutions. Framerate is a different conversation, but there's clearly no reason it can't, in theory, hit the same targets as Series X because it already has.and, no,not in pong.

One game is not a trend. That's a life lesson for you there, Einstein. We don't know why they dropped the framerate in AC, possibly because they didn't like the idea of going sub-1080p. How did that decision effect the Series X again?

At this point,the concern over the Series S is so false that anybody who brings this up like they don't know the talking points should get a temp ban. It should be a "prove it" situation, because it gets tiring to have this conversation over and over.
 
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Hydroxy

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Microsoft really screwed up the price of Series S outside USA. Its only slightly cheaper than PS4 DE. Quite disappointing.
 
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prinz_valium

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Microsoft really screwed up the price of Series S outside USA. Its only slightly cheaper than PS4 DE. Quite disappointing.
Still 100€
But unless the Ps4 DE, MS doesn't make a huge loss on every console sold.

But sure for the consumer, the Ps5 DE is the best value. They make Sony pay for it
 

mikefrails

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There will be two PlayStations come mid-gen, a pro and standard model. Xbox is competing with that. Not a crazy concept.
 
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Redlancet

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sbox series s will hold back ms ajd
They don't care how it does at $299 to early adopter launch buyers. Its sole reason for existing are their seasonal $199 and under bundles, which will absolutely annihilate Series X and maybe even PS5 during Holiday '21 and '22.
looking at the s reception...that "maybe" its just fantasy

Still 100€
But unless the Ps4 DE, MS doesn't make a huge loss on every console sold.

But sure for the consumer, the Ps5 DE is the best value. They make Sony pay for it

in europe you cant find a ps5 digital anywhere and you can reserve or buy a s just walking to the shop,nobody its buying that thing here,im pretty sure sony will recoup the money with digital sales,a console on the shelf dont make any money
 
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CS Lurker

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The cost reduction could come from the SSD. On the other hand, maybe they'll keep the same price and increase the size of the SSD.

That's exactly what they're gonna do. From the same interview:

"Even with the flash, you know, that's a tough one because consumer expectation will be that they're getting more storage. So it's not really a cost reduction, right? Traditionally, we've always modelled a fixed cost for the HDD and you just increase capacity for that fixed cost," explains Goossen.
 

prinz_valium

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sbox series s will hold back ms ajd

looking at the s reception...that "maybe" its just fantasy



in europe you cant find a ps5 digital anywhere and you can reserve or buy a s just walking to the shop,nobody its buying that thing here,im pretty sure sony will recoup the money with digital sales,a console on the shelf dont make any money
Sony barley makes back that money with 100% digital attach rate compared to 70% on the regular Ps5 over its lifetime
 

Emedan

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The Series S graphical reduction will not just be resolution and framerate in the end, we all know this. 4TF is disappointingly low, I have an GTX 1070 from 2016, it has 6,5tf computing power, I could sadly never replace my ageing gaming PC with the XSS. Also CPUs is rarely the limiting factor in graphical output since hitting the baseline is so ridiculously easy, it's all about that GPU.
 

Phrixotrichus

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Jesus pal, have you never done any reading before?

At least you've got enough ranting in for everybody.

Here's a summary of the conversation so far. The Series X won't be held back by the Series S because they're targeting different resolutions. Framerate is a different conversation, but there's clearly no reason it can't, in theory, hit the same targets as Series X because it already has.and, no,not in pong.

One game is not a trend. That's a life lesson for you there, Einstein. We don't know why they dropped the framerate in AC, possibly because they didn't like the idea of going sub-1080p. How did that decision effect the Series X again?

At this point,the concern over the Series S is so false that anybody who brings this up like they don't know the talking points should get a temp ban. It should be a "prove it" situation, because it gets tiring to have this conversation over and over.
You really..really aren`t the brightest candle on the cake, are you?
The situation isn`t hard to understand. You have 2 boxes that are sold as 4k boxes but are entirely too weak to actually do that. And then you have a budget box designed to scale down the 4k content of the other boxes.....
If those struggle and have to drop their target renders significantly that scaling goes to hell and you have to gimp and/or manually optimize the version for the budget box. In this case UBI decided to sacrifice FPS over visuals, that´s really all there is to it.
It´s not like we have benchmarks literally worth 1000s of hours from the PC space telling us exactly what to expect......

And I don`t know what you go on babbling about concern. We have simple hardware facts here that anyone who has ever had anything to do with PC hardware should be able to grasp at first glance.
 
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Mmnow

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You really..really aren`t the brightest candle on the cake, are you?
The situation isn`t hard to understand. You have 2 boxes that are sold as 4k boxes but are entirely too weak to actually do that. And then you have a budget box designed to scale down the 4k content of the other boxes.....
If those struggle and have to drop their target renders significantly that scaling goes to hell and you have to gimp/manually optimize the version forn the budget box. That´s really all there is to it.
It´s not like we have benchmarks literally worth 1000s of hours from the PC space.......
Ffs. Stop. You're not even saying anything.

"Series S will hold back the Series X!"

"How?"

"Well,the weaker box might sometimes be gimped or will NEED TO BE OPTIMISED."

Yeah. Great insight. Nobody disagrees, but the important thing is you feel like you're a part of this.
 

Phrixotrichus

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Ffs. Stop. You're not even saying anything.

"Series S will hold back the Series X!"

"How?"

"Well,the weaker box might sometimes be gimped or will NEED TO BE OPTIMISED."

Yeah. Great insight. Nobody disagrees, but the important thing is you feel like you're a part of this.
are you shizophrenic or something? Because nothing of what you`re saying has anything to do with what I wrote in this thread.......:messenger_expressionless:
 
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Chittagong

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I’m really pleased that there is a Series S. I have the X for my main setup in London, but I live a nomadic life with up to 8 months a year abroad, and the combination of S and the portable 1TB card makes it easy to carry next gen gaming with me.
 

Mmnow

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are you shizophrenic or something? Because nothing of what you`re saying has anything to do with what I wrote in this thread.......:messenger_expressionless:
Go read the whole thread, including the posts you felt the need to respond to. Take notes if you have to.
 

Phrixotrichus

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Go read the whole thread, including the posts you felt the need to respond to. Take notes if you have to.
XSS weak, compromises needed. That´s all I´ve said.

You know, this isn`t a poem interpretation. You should answer to what the people say and not what you in your twisted head make of that...
 
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Mmnow

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XSS weak, compromises needed. That´s all I´ve said.

You know, this isn`t a poem interpretation. You should answer to what the people say and not what you in your twisted head make of that...
Yeah, sure, friend. Nobody said any different, but, again, it helps when there are experts like you around to correct... Nothing?
 

Riky

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Got my Series S on a 1080p 43" Sony 8 series TV, got to say playing BlackOps and Dirt 5 on it last night it looks and runs really well. If you're upgrading from a One S you're going to be impressed.
 

Phrixotrichus

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Yeah, sure, friend. Nobody said any different, but, again, it helps when there are experts like you around to correct... Nothing?

This is what you said and it`s bullshit in this case. Simple as that.

So much of framerate is cpu bound - it doesn't make sense to cut resolution and framerate for the Series S.




But whatever, this is going nowhere.
Cheerio, buddy.
 
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Mmnow

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This is what you said and it`s bullshit in this case. Simple as that.






But whatever, this is going nowhere.
Cheerio, buddy.
Right...? Context.

That is part of a post in a conversation about framerate limiting.I later said perhaps Ubi didn't want to go too far south of 1080p.

But I appreciate you're too busy to reply to a whole thought rather than half of one.
 
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Phrixotrichus

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Right...? Context.

That is part of a post in a conversation about framerate limiting.I later said perhaps Ubi didn't want to go too far south of 1080p.

But I appreciate you're too busy to reply to a whole thought rather than half of one.
whatever you think you say buddy. You are absolutely 100% correct.
I´m proud of you and you get my personal "has contributed"-medal.
 

Mmnow

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whatever you think you say buddy. You are absolutely 100% correct.
I´m proud of you and you get my personal "has contributed"-medal.
Whoa. You took that whole bit I've been doing for three posts and turned it around on me...

Only you used the laughing emote as well. Oof.

Genius.
 

N1tr0sOx1d3

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Theoretically, can’t the Series S be a Xcloud machine and therefore play XBSX games via streaming?
 

Phrixotrichus

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Whoa. You took that whole bit I've been doing for three posts and turned it around on me...

Only you used the laughing emote as well. Oof.

Genius.
 

Coolwhhip

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With games at 80 euros/dollars each I don't really see the point of this console still. If you can't afford the X, how are you going to buy games?