People say this but when it comes to Microsoft it’s not that unheard of that the games these studios are producing just disappear and the cycle of delay’s continues, Scalebound, Fable Legends, Phantom Dust and now people are seeing the same signs with Everwild, I believe this why Xbox twitter as people call it have turned on their executives as some percentage of their fans are going to get sick of the lies they peddle after a while.
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Xbox's Aaron Greenberg: "We have a lot planned to show for 2023, you will not have to wait too long for what’s next for us. Timing is key."
- Thread starter Eddie-Griffin
- Start date
Why would MS fire these two? Especially Phil, they are so good at manipulating their customers. Mr. Spencer is extremely good as playing "I am like you, I am on your side" game with the gamers. He's so good that there are so many people idolize him and defend him no matter how much a bad job he is doing.
tommib
Member
I like your game:Who dare to show their latest played games list? With no clicking around to alter the list.
XSX
PS5:
As someone who used to prefer Xbox I’m pissed at what has happened this year.
The only upside for MS this year for me is their PC strategy, I’ve played and enjoyed a couple Gamepass games on PC.
Notice how I had to bathe in the glory of Elden Ring after the inferno of Forspoken.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
Who dare to show their latest played games list? With no clicking around to alter the list.
XSX
PS5:
As someone who used to prefer Xbox I’m pissed at what has happened this year.
The only upside for MS this year for me is their PC strategy, I’ve played and enjoyed a couple Gamepass games on PC.
I've been trying different Indie-ish games since God of War Ragnarok because none of the bigger games look and play as good as Ragnarok
- Rocket League and Returnal are constant on this list. I always play those two.
- Tetris and Messenger were launched to complete the PS Rewards campaign.
- Will come back to Skyrim later (dropped after 1 hour)
- Didn't like Persistence (played for only 25 minutes though)
- Started Sifu just to check the latest update and modifiers.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
How about Gungeon? I think it is a good alternative to TBOI even though harder and faster.I've been trying different Indie-ish games since God of War Ragnarok because none of the bigger games look and play as good as Ragnarok
- Rocket League and Returnal are constant on this list. I always play those two.
- Tetris and Messenger were launched to complete the PS Rewards campaign.
- Will come back to Skyrim later (dropped after 1 hour)
- Didn't like Persistence (played for only 25 minutes though)
- Started Sifu just to check the latest update and modifiers.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
I was looking for my Hades fix. Gungeon is very popular but didn't really do much for me.
Then Geoff, bless that beautiful M'fer, dropped Hades 2 trailer at TGA. Now I can't sleep out of excitement. FML!
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Not that many at the same time. Scalebound or Fable were eventually officially cancelled.
It's highly unlikely that even one quarter of the current projects in the pipeline will end with a cancellation. There are a lot of studio with some reputation to uphold here, that are deemed very serious in how they work.
But most of them are not very big projects either, and indeed i fear that Microsoft add pressure with their very poor management of the schedule.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Sigh. I’m talking about their first party studios. Please see the post James quoted.
I want to see games from those studios. We all do.
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Yes?
Gow gameplay was revealed in September 2021 and it didn’t release until November 2022 14 months later.
If Spider-Man 2 goes by the gow schedule, it’s not releasing anytime soon.
geary
Member
Because:
1. i dont like M&K
2. i work 8 hours/day on PO/Laptop....i dont want to game on it.
3. i want to play on big TV Screen
4. i dont know where Ctrl, Shift and Del are on the keyboard
5. i dont like windows
6. console are cheaper
7. i have my friends on console;
8. i like the UI of a console;
and the list can continue. You can find a big list of pro's towards consoles which is independent of the hardware manufacturer and 1st party developers.
azertydu91
Hard to Kill
That's too bad I liked Gungeon, but it is indeed very different than Hades, maybe try Transistor, if you found hades camera appealing(it is much slower though) but might keep you waiting until Hades 2, I'm hyped too about it.
Umbasaborne
Banned
I chalk this up to covid largely, same with microsoft and even nintendo. It feels like very few of the large publishers had anything to show/announce this year. I feel like this was the year that the effects of covid on game development were felt the hardest. Youd think with new consoles out, that microsoft and sony would do more to get people excited for the future. Still, at least sony and Nintendo made up for the lack of 1sr party announcements with “big” first party game releases this year. Microsofts 2022 couldn’t even do that. If I were phil spencer or matt booty i would feel embarassed.
BootsLoader
Banned
Why I you do not believe them?
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gow3isben
Member
Perfect Dark is also about to Expire.
Remember all that Hullabaloo and ruckus when Initiative was formed? Oh my God in the heart of Santa Monica a brand new studio with the best developer recruits from all the big names!
And their first project is almost dead on arrival all the leadership has left with Crystal Dynamics attempting a bailout which likely won't succeed.
Microsoft studio management is absolute incompetent to the extreme and that is why I fear for all these new studios they bought who have to work with the crutch of answering to them.
Just watch Redfall and even Starfield end up middling to awful.
Besides the Racing games (which literally can't be ruined as the framework was built long ago and the devs just add to them each time) Xbox under Philip simply have made dud after dud. Gears is decent overall these days ok sure but compared to its prime it is shite.
People shit on Matrick but forget how many exclusives he had lined up for Xbox in the initial Xbox one period and they ranged from middling to decent.
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azertydu91
Hard to Kill
We've been waiting games from them for about a decade but don't worry guys when they do come out rest assured that at least the timing will be :
Lions Gate
Member
lmfao this guy, saying the same shit every year for a decade. gtfo
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Hendrick's
If only my penis was as big as my GamerScore!
I do believe MS held back solely because of the deal, which was a mistake imo. I'm expecting a big Q1 show though.
spons
Gold Member
Phil Spencer is an incredibly interesting case. He plays games all the time, online and with randoms. You can even message him directly and he'll probably respond on Live. Yet when it comes to business, he's sub-par because playing games and running a billion dollar games business require totally different skills. Comparisons can be made with ex-football players becoming team coaches - and doing a shitty job at it because while the two things look similar, they are completely different.
DaGwaphics
Member
This thread is hilarious. We have xbox execs pretty coming out and admitting they need to do better. Meanwhile their fans:
They've already announced three first-party games for 2023. LOL
If that's a circling inferno your expectations are too high.
@
spons
I think MS is bringing in more $ in gaming than they ever have (likely the primary thing that Spencer's bosses care about) while also greatly improving the position of the brand (both in public opinion and sales) over the X1. If that's failing at your job, more companies should take this failing up approach.
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vaibhavpisal
Member
Yeah.
Don't know what people are expecting.
Starfield won't keep getting delayed forever.
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
They have actually announced one first-party title. The other two (which, by the way, are just bought games from Bethesda) were slated for 2022. They just got delayed into 2023.
@
- The gaming industry has been growing overall, both software and hardware sales. Hence, the increase in total revenue and console sales.
- The revenue increase is also primarily because Xbox bought 10+ companies recently and merged that revenue with Xbox's division, thus inflating their own numbers.
- The console sales while up from X1 are again mainly because of the boom in gaming industry. In terms of Xbox vs. PlayStation console sales and mindshare, PS is still outselling Xbox by 1.3:1 as they did last gen in the first 2 years. Nothing has changed.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Well that doesn't speak too highly of what they're doing with the teams they currently own, then. They shouldn't need ABK in order to have "a lot to show", they already have 20+ other studios! If it comes down to needing ABK to have "a lot to show", then that just speaks to poor management at the top.
I'm surprised there weren't even release dates given for Starfield, RedFall and/or Forza Motorsport and preorders opened up. Even that would've been something to cap the year off with but apparently even that was asking of too much.
Two of which were supposed to be 2022 releases.
@
Well when you've got diapers for your controllers and an audience ridiculous enough to buy them, you can obviously increase your revenue.
No. Enough of this. Stop. Stop it. Stop it, please.
We cannot keep pinning the blame on COVID every single time. The lockdowns in most parts of the world started easing off near the end of LAST year, so how does that prevent MS from making short new gameplay sizzle reels for Starfield, RedFall, and Forza, and give release dates and preorders? We saw SF VI do it, we saw FF XVI do it. Hell, Forspoken had a demo released the night OF the TGAs! We even got a new trailer for Tekken 8 (another (rumored) 2023 release) as well; these are all H1 2023 games, BTW.
ALL of these companies were affected by the COVID lockdowns and some still are in ways more strict than any of MS's currently owned teams (outside of potentially Tango). Yet look, they're still able to give timely updates on their games as they near release six months out. For some reason, MS are not able to do this, and it's not due to COVID lockdowns; it's an organization and management issue. I don't know how compartmentalized and granular their studio management is, or to what degree Xbox upper management has to work with the other parts of Microsoft for certain approvals or whatever, but something about that structure is definitely acting as a bottleneck and needs to change.
It's affecting their ability to have timely updates on games where they make sense, affecting release schedules of games (I know some people are speculating Starfield & RedFall were delayed simply to let the $1 GP offers run out and sell at $70, and maybe that's true, but I think those are more convenient coincidences if anything), affecting the quality of multiple releases and the long-term status of various games (look to Halo Infinite and FH5), etc. IMO it's also affecting (or potentially will affect) growth opportunities for studios under them that want to reach for higher ambitions, because they'll need guidance and leadership that either isn't there or isn't organized to be there efficiently.
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SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
Covid didn’t affect the other 50+ games at the show. Sometimes it’s about perception managing which tbh is the job of a marketing exec like Greenberg. Even if he didn’t have other games to show, he should’ve cut trailers for the three games that are coming out next year.
Jaybe
Member
I mean, they bought Bethesda so I would sure hope so. If you ever take a look at their trended revenue, you’ll see the bump from when the acquisition closed and Bethesda-related sales started falling under MS.
Moses85
Member
Sony:
TLOU PI
GoW Ragnarök
Returnal
Spiderman 1 + MM
Ratchet
GT7
Demons Souls
Horizon FW
vs.
Forza Horizon 5
Heisenberg007
Gold Journalism
That's a good point, considering they are all slated for H1 2023, which ends on June 30, and Final Fantasy XVI, releasing on June 22, 2023 (the tail-end of H1 2023), has shown plenty of gameplay and also opened pre-orders now.
reinking
Gold Member
I was surprised there were no new updates on those games too. I don't know if MS is trying to be low-key because of the regulators or if they are holding things back for a full-on media blitz at some point.
thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
And that is another big reason they want ABK; if they can fold that revenue into Xbox, they would be within spitting distance of PS's revenue, maybe even slightly above it. Acquiring publishers and making ever-more peripherals/brand hardware (diapers for controllers, fridges, beanbag couches, maybe a Series S Easy Bake oven is next?) seem to be their go-to for juicing up Xbox division revenue.
I'm sure some of the games are bringing in revenue as well (how much, is questionable) but they aren't the main reason the division's seen revenue increases over the past 5 years.
It really casts some doubt on if those three games will hit H1 2023. Personally, and I've seen several people give good insight into the production process & refer to earlier info and job listings to back it up, I think Forza might slip to H2 2023. RedFall probably still has a good chance for H1 2023, but Starfield might get bumped back to the Fall.
If MS don't have any other big games planned for 2023 then I guess it would make sense to save Starfield for that slot, plus that game needs to be as polished as possible. Technically if they want the least amount of competition for it as possible they'd release it between February and April, but if they were ready they'd of done a release date at the TGAs for it and opened up preorders.
I don't even have hope anymore that Hellblade II is a 2023 game whatsoever; that and Avowed are at best 2024 releases. Some of these other games 'insiders' have leaked like Project Bellfrey sound like smaller indie/lower-scale AA type of games in scope, it won't really do much to move the needle. I'm starting to think Everwild is dead. Okay, sorry for the ramble I just got pulled into speculating on what 2023 may have for MS but it looks a bit choppy.
Personally hope that isn't the reason. Would it even work? It's not like regulators are only looking at what they're doing in the immediate moment, they're digging deep into previous actions of the past too and using all that to try predicting likely future outcomes if the deal goes through.
Already dislike the idea (I kinda don't believe it personally, but it's there) that Sony held back due to regulators but at least they dropped some water & food rations. Microsoft just left folks in the desert for vultures this year. They may have some big blowout for 2023 planned but how do you hydrate & nourish a corpse?
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
Yep, Everwild is a great example. No idea if that game's even alive anymore. Maybe it is, but does it resemble ANYTHING like what the original reveal indicated or suggested? Will the gameplay be anything like what the team talked about back in 2020? Who knows at this point.
Perfect Dark reboot now is probably a completely different game than it was before Crystal Dynamics joined on the project. These aren't cancellations, true, but they may end up feeling so far removed from what was originally shown & promised, and up lower in quality or ambition as a result, they might as well have been canned because they may leave some people feeling that was the better option.
If the next big Showcase doesn't have an update on the games from 2019/2020 (or at least some of them) and it's just focused on Starfield (or whatever games slated for 2023 that don't release by H1 2023), I don't think things are gonna end well for big chunks of the fanbase. Sure maybe they can pay to lock down a big 3P exclusive or two and that may make most people forget about Hellblade II, Project Mara, Everwild, Perfect Dark, State of Decay 3 etc. but not everyone will.
Fredrik
Member
Lol I can relate, been bathing in the glory of Elden Ring since launch, but on PC. Can’t get enough of it.I like your game:
Notice how I had to bathe in the glory of Elden Ring after the inferno of Forspoken.
I played Scorn too on PC. It was transformative, can’t get it out of my head. Surprise of the year for me considering the critics rating, I absolutely loved it. Should’ve won the Art Direction award at TGA instead of Elden Ring, nothing compares.
If you want to start just making massive lists of games you’re welcome to check out those metacritic links I posted above.
If Playstation are doing so great and Xbox are doing so poorly in comparison, what is your view on why game reviewers have the games on both consoles roughly equal in quality?
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fallingdove
Member
You have tried this song and dance before.
Your links are shit and your argument is dishonest. There are games on metacritic that are ports of 10 year old titles or tiny indie games that barely met minimum metacritic criteria due to being reviewed by Xbox-centric websites.
Any honest person who hasn’t been brainwashed in Phil’s sex dungeon would admit that Microsoft’s first party output has been inconsistent so far this gen and pales in comparison to what is available on PlayStation. Really hoping that changes in 2023.
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DaGwaphics
Member
Only if you completely ignore the fact that the fiscal year 2021 and 2022 bumps also represent the new hardware generation (X1 sales had stalled badly the last few years of its life) and the obvious revenue bumps from that, and then there is the small issue of the 15-16m GP subscribers that were added during the same period. But sure, if you close your eyes to everything else you could say it was just the bump from Bethesda.
And LOL about the nonsense about this game should have been this year or that year, that's easily the lowest rung on the stupid ladder. It's funny we never here much of that when the other brands release titles that were intended for the prior year (which both have done over the last couple years). 22 was a horrific year for MS first-party output, end of discussion. 23 should be a solid year, that's the real story.
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thicc_girls_are_teh_best
Gold Member
You realize most game reviewers aren't worth much in the first place, right? These are the same people that gave Halo Infinite an 87 MC and that game died three months after launch.
And what's the ARPU of those GP subscribers? Why have GP subs not grown as much for the current fiscal year?
2023 may be a good year for MS 1P, but that's still an unknown. Better question is will be enough for Microsoft to keep up? Sony & Nintendo aren't going to just sit around and have nothing, they could easily drown out Xbox's release schedule with what is confirmed coming for their platforms in 2023.
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bentanchorbolt
Banned
The constant bickering in threads like these makes me think people can’t afford more than one console and feel the need to champion whichever one they happen to own. Y’all need to log out and play some video games lmao.
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midnightAI
Member
Or, and bear with me on this, both companies are prepping for big showcases, both know the other is doing one also and so they are now playing a game of chicken to see who flinches first.
(it could also be that the events over the past couple of years, such as Covid, chip shortages, war in Ukraine are having a knock on effect on when things are going to be shown, but I do believe both will want a showcase early 2023)
Jaybe
Member
If you don’t think all these new companies are aiding their revenue then I can’t help you man. I agree hardware is assisting too, you sell enough of a 200 to 250 dollar console it’s going to add up. As to Game Pass, sure it adds revenue but Game Pass isn’t all gravy for their income statement. Those subs have a cost. Many of them are simply moving revenue and subscriber counts from the Gold sub box to the Game Pass sub box, mine being one of them. At its peak, Gold had subs in the mid-40 million so I’m not sure it’s all champagne popping over there and likely why they have high target for GP growth that they continue to miss. Then you have the cost of reduced game purchases. I’m so curious how many copies Halo Infinite sold but it basically never hits sales charts (even the Xbox only charts) like evergreen titles like Miles and GT7 and soon GOWR does. Forza Horizon 5 seems like it moved less units than FH4, when 5 was the seemingly better received game. Those ‘lost’ sales aren’t going to show up anywhere in the books.
As to your LOL years comment, not clue why that was a response to me. Maybe @ the right person next time.
DaGwaphics
Member
How many titles could they really bring 4 or 5? In sheer volume there isn't going to be much of a difference, MS could even add another title for the back half of 23. Plus, they'll technically have Ghostwire and the AoE titles that will be new to Xbox players.
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DaGwaphics
Member
Only the first paragraph of that post was for you, the second was just about the thread in general.
Also, I'm not sure where I posted that the new companies weren't benefiting the bottom line, they certainly should be. Must have been your mistake, @ the right person next time.
![[Sigma]](/data/avatars/m/701/701747.jpg?1685439978){kind=avatar}
samoilaaa
Member
if starfield and redfall will be very good games then 2023 might be a good year for them , i dont see any major AAA releasing in 2023 from them , activision deal isnt done so we cant count diablo 4 as 1st party
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
But MS already went and E3 and revealed Starfield, Forza 8 and Redfall and Sony just sat there for the rest of the year doing nothing.
I am not buying the whole covid thing. I think they just got greedy and made games like HFW, GT7 and GOW last gen way back in 2018 before covid and chip shortages were a thing. MS was poorly managed and made some boneheaded decisions like wasting time on Bleeding Edge, Outer Wilds, and Forza Horizon 5 instead of going full steam ahead on next gen only games. Initiative was founded in 2018. almost 5 years later, no game from them. It's not because of covid because FromSoft literally just made Elden Ring in UNDER 3 years. Respawn made Star Wars in a little over 3 years. Insmoniac makes 2 games every 2 years. COD studios didnt give a fuck about covid and kept their schedule while releasing Warzone maps every year on top of the single player, coop and mp they release every year.
This is greed and incompetence. Covid isnt an excuse.
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midnightAI
Member
I said it could be the events of the past couple of years, not that it was in every case, but covid affected everyone and every company differently depending on their own policies or country laws and guidelines, either way it did have an effect some small some large. And of course there is the ongoing acquisitions of Microsoft which could be affecting both companies information output.
But like I said, I reckon both are working on something for early 2023, I know Microsoft had E3, but lets face it, it was a bit crap (other than the three games you mentioned)
Edit: Sorry, just read your post again, did you mean that they started making HFW, GT7 and GOW in 2018? it almost reads like you think that those games were made before Covid and chip shortages not during those two things? And didnt Elden Ring take around 5 years to make? pretty sure they started development in 2017
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Lions Gate
Member
same clown, same shit every fucking year
2019
2020
2021
2022
2019
2020
2021
2022
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True there are ports of 10 year old titles on metacritic, like the last of us part 1, that doesn’t mean those games are unavailable on the platforms they’ve been released for.
Can you honestly say that any of those indie games do not justify the score that they’ve got?
Xbox players can still play all those games high rated games, the lack of first party output this year doesn’t mean xbox owners have nothing to play.
I’ve said Microsoft’s output could have been better a couple of times, but if Sony were really far ahead of Microsoft in releasing games, we’d expect there to be many more metacritic 80+ games on playstation than xbox, wouldn’t we? Given the third party games are generally on both consoles, Sony’s first party should put playstation much further ahead, but it doesn’t.
Either Microsoft’s first party output is roughly equal in quality and quantity to Sony, or third party games released on playstation are generally poorer quality so that the improved first party output brings playstation up to parity with xbox, rather than putting it ahead.
Or, your idea of AAA is just ‘games not on Xbox’, so it doesn’t matter how good any of the games are.
Which is it?
light2x
Member
That's a pretty good lineup. Much better than Sony's lmao