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[Loxus]

Yes, they are similar in that they were intended for the Next Generation Geometry Pipeline. They are both geometry pipelines, that replace the previous model.
But what you still fail to understand is that they replace different things, inside the geometry pipeline.
You are so limited in understanding tech, is almost mindboggling.
You keep making random associations to try to prove your point, but you end up just showing how little you know.
I'm done trying to explain anything else to you.

It's you that have low understanding skills.
You fail to understand the PS5 is highly custom.
It is also confirmed the PS5 is based on RDNA2 not RDNA 1, CDNA or GCN.

No matter how much it pains you to admit it, it's RDNA2. I don't know why you refuse to believe confirmations from AMD and Mark Cerny.

When it comes to technology there are many different ways to achieve something. Ray Tracing for example.

AMD uses CUs for Ray Tracing.

While Nvidia uses RT Cores.

AMD also uses CUs for Machine Learning.

While Nvidia uses Tensor Cores.

You think for some reason hardware VRS can only be done by ROPs. For you it Microsoft's way or it can't be done but Nvidia does RT and ML differently from the XBSX, so way can't PS5 do hardware VRS differently from the XBSX?

 

[TrebleShot]

Fascinating!

So what I am reading here is that Xbox has a 2 TF advantage AND super mesh VRS powers.

That must be why Demons Souls from a year ago looks better than Halo.



Seriously you’d expect much much better output from the black plastic box if it has so many advantages a year after launch.

 

[Zathalus]

Fascinating!

So what I am reading here is that Xbox has a 2 TF advantage AND super mesh VRS powers.

That must be why Demons Souls from a year ago looks better than Halo.



Seriously you’d expect much much better output from the black plastic box if it has so many advantages a year after launch.

Looking at your post history you think Halo is not one of the top 10 multiplayer shooters of this year, FH5 is a 6/10 game with Dirt 5 looking better in places (fucking lol) , and MS Flight Simulator is a glorified tech demo.

Yes, we get it, you really love Playstation.

 

[MonarchJT]

I knew the Xbox camp would come in raging with anything to disprove what I've said without bringing sources.

Mesh Shader and the Geometry Engine in the PS5 does literally the same thing. The Geometry Engine and Primitive Shaders in the PS5 does two completely different things and AMD Primitive Shaders does not do the same thing as PS5's Primitive Shaders. AMD Primitive Shaders is much more comparable the the PS5's Geometry Engine.

How VRS works using PS5s Primitive Shaders.
In graphics processing data is received representing one or more vertices for a scene in a virtual space. Primitive assembly is performed on the vertices to compute projections of the vertices from virtual space onto a viewport of the scene in a screen space of a display device containing a plurality of pixels, the plurality of pixels being subdivided into a plurality of subsections. Scan conversion determines which pixels of the plurality of pixels are part of each primitive that has been converted to screen space coordinates. Coarse rasterization for each primitive determines which subsection or subsections the primitive overlaps. Metadata associated with the subsection a primitive overlaps determines a pixel resolution for the subsection. The metadata is used in processing pixels for the subsection to generate final pixel values for the viewport of the scene that is displayed on the display device in such a way that parts of the scene in two different subsections have different pixel resolution.

Again, PS5 is confirmed to have RDNA2 CUs. You can't disprove this, it confirmed by AMD themselves.

VRS also has nothing to do with CUs.

man stop it mesh shader and vrs are two different things....pls stop it...you hurting my brain

 

[Riky]

"Pre-launch there was plenty of discussion about whether PS5 had the feature or not and the truth is, it doesn't have any hardware-based VRS support at all."

Digital Foundry.

 

[Loxus]

"Pre-launch there was plenty of discussion about whether PS5 had the feature or not and the truth is, it doesn't have any hardware-based VRS support at all."

Digital Foundry.

Digital Foundry also said the PS5 doesn't support Ray Tracing and look how that turned out.

 

[MonarchJT]

Digital Foundry also said the PS5 doesn't support Ray Tracing and look how that turned out.

i remember there are devs that said that PS5 doesn't support hw vrs 2 ..i think was dice ?

 

[Negotiator101]

Digital Foundry also said the PS5 doesn't support Ray Tracing and look how that turned out.

What?

 

[Loxus]

man stop it mesh shader and vrs are two different things....pls stop it...you hurting my brain

I never said VRS and Mesh Shaders are the same.
I said Mesh Shaders and Geometry Engine are the same.

The PS5's Primitive Shaders and AMD Primitive Shaders are not the same. AMD Primitive Shaders can't vary details of objects and effects on the fly.

I don't know why you don't understand what Mark Cerny said.

 

[Loxus]

i remember there are devs that said that PS5 doesn't support hw vrs 2 ..i think was dice ?

The PS5 doesn't support Direct X API features so they develop there own solution, it's that simple.

The PS5 doesn't support Direct X Ray Tracing but it still does Ray Tracing.

 

[HoofHearted]

 

[ToTTenTranz]

Digital Foundry also said the PS5 doesn't support Ray Tracing and look how that turned out.

"We independently confirmed that these specs are correct and the PS5 is a 9.2 TFLOPs console".

Also Digital Foundry.


Sony doesn't tell anything to Digital Foundry that isn't public knowledge, and that drives them crazy. Especially when multiplatform titles started to arrive showing similar performance on both consoles, or even better performance on the PS5 in some cases.


I wouldn't be surprised if Sony didn't bother to expose VRS on their API as it's not getting great results out of contained demos from Coalition anyways, and I wonder if it's of any use at all in UE5.

VRS is a VR feature for foveated rendering first and foremost. It could be that Sony only exposes it to PSVR2 devkits.

 

[Riky]

Digital Foundry also said the PS5 doesn't support Ray Tracing and look how that turned out.

Link?

 

[Riky]

i remember there are devs that said that PS5 doesn't support hw vrs 2 ..i think was dice ?

It was id, they say they wished it had it, being a developer I guess they would know.

 

[assurdum]

They’re the same in the sense they both provide compute shader functionality to the graphics pipeline. Primtive Shaders modify the old pipeline whilst Mesh Shaders introduce a new pipeline all together. The raw performance gains are identical. “Don’t want the truth” lol ok



A lot of false information in here. The hardware required for Mesh and Primitive Shaders was introduced in the Vega architecture and then RDNA 1 unified the geometry engines to boost performance. There has been zero changes to from RDNA 1 to 2 when it comes to the command processor and geometry engines,see AMD’s whitepapers for more information on this. It literally nothing to do with “Sony didn’t want to wait for RDNA 2”. Lmao

In fact all AMD RDNA 2 cards are converting Mesh Shaders into Primitive Shaders in code as seen in the driver code, this very likely includes the Series X as well.

If you want more information go through LeviathanGamer2’s tweets as he’s covered this extensively.

Make them believe they have their special sauce ... a rude awakening will wait them. They already have it in the multiplat results.

 

[MonarchJT]

Make them believe they have their special sauce ... a rude awakening will wait them. They already have it in the multiplat results.

saved

 

[FrankieSab]

The PS5 doesn't support Direct X API features so they develop there own solution, it's that simple.

The PS5 doesn't support Direct X Ray Tracing but it still does Ray Tracing.

Of course it does not support the Ms API implementation. But does the Ps5 have hrd vrs 2 was the question....!

 

[Loxus]

"We independently confirmed that these specs are correct and the PS5 is a 9.2 TFLOPs console".

Also Digital Foundry.


Sony doesn't tell anything to Digital Foundry that isn't public knowledge, and that drives them crazy. Especially when multiplatform titles started to arrive showing similar performance on both consoles, or even better performance on the PS5 in some cases.


I wouldn't be surprised if Sony didn't bother to expose VRS on their API as it's not getting great results out of contained demos from Coalition anyways, and I wonder if it's of any use at all in UE5.

VRS is a VR feature for foveated rendering first and foremost. It could be that Sony only exposes it to PSVR2 devkits.

Exactly, there are different types of VRS and what the PS5 will be using for the PSVR 2 eye tracking would be much like Nvidia's VRSS.
NVIDIA VRSS 2: Dynamic Foveated Rendering

They think Microsoft has the only VRS solution.

 

[Loxus]

Of course it does not support the Ms API implementation. But does the Ps5 have hrd vrs 2 was the question....!

Exactly, there are different types of VRS and what the PS5 will be using for the PSVR 2 eye tracking would be much like Nvidia's VRSS.
NVIDIA VRSS 2: Dynamic Foveated Rendering

They think Microsoft has the only VRS solution.

Otherwise, eye tracking would be useless without VRS.

 

[MonarchJT]

Exactly, there are different types of VRS and what the PS5 will be using for the PSVR 2 eye tracking would be much like Nvidia's VRSS.
NVIDIA VRSS 2: Dynamic Foveated Rendering

They think Microsoft has the only VRS solution.

vrs can be done in sw. we talking about hw implementation of it and it seem (multiple source) that PS5 is lacking it in any form of it (if I'm wrong and it has been made official please direct me where I can be enlightened about it and I would apologize in advance)
I'm tired of this back and forth I'm out of this Convo anyway it won't lead to anything. I'm just saying that most of the proponents of some theories about both the GE and what's inside the PS5 are based on personal guesswork and nothing more. at this point we could all say everything about any console. Maybe the Nintendo switch has a second GPU ... (ala misterxmedia).
For this reason years ago technical discussion about hw HAD to be based on official statement or specs only ..and if someone tried to have his say without official evidence ... he had to make it clear that it was only a personal opinion and nothing more...the risk was a ban for spreading fud

 

[Riky]

Exactly, there are different types of VRS and what the PS5 will be using for the PSVR 2 eye tracking would be much like Nvidia's VRSS.
NVIDIA VRSS 2: Dynamic Foveated Rendering

They think Microsoft has the only VRS solution.

Untrue.

Everyone knows you can emulate VRS through software as in Metro Exodus and Call Of Duty.

 

[Loxus]

vrs can be done in sw. we talking about hw implementation of it and it seem (multiple source) that PS5 is lacking it in any form of it

How exactly can what is needed for eye tracking be software based when it supposed to save on performance and achieve 2000 X 2040 per eye and a high frame rate to avoid motion sickness?

You are running out of excuses now.

 

[assurdum]

saved

I still wait new special graphic effect only possible on XSX. I have just see a couple of more pixels and nothing more dude.

 

[Loxus]

Untrue.

Everyone knows you can emulate VRS through software as in Metro Exodus and Call Of Duty.

How exactly can what is needed for eye tracking be software based when it supposed to save on performance and achieve 2000 X 2040 per eye and a high frame rate to avoid motion sickness?

Software may not be fast enough to keep up with eye movement.

Do you ever think before you post?

 

[StreetsofBeige]

Here's hoping something good comes from this.

That Intel car video a month or two ago showing ML improvements was slick looking. But who knows what kind of result Xbox consoles would get out of it. I dont know how powerful the PC rigs were based on that old video. Maybe they were uber PC rigs.

 

[assurdum]

How exactly can what is needed for eye tracking be software based when it supposed to save on performance and achieve 2000 X 2040 per eye and a high frame rate to avoid motion sickness?

You are running out of excuses now.

You talking with a person who doesn't know a shit about tech and turn around the magic buzz words who MS sold to him. Now they try to use mesh shaders as a sort of magic mantra of the full RDNA2 rhetoric when with GE is highly probable we can achieve similar efficiency in terms of performance boost.

 

[Riky]

Software may not be fast enough to keep up with eye movement.

Do you ever think before you post?

Do you?

Link who says that it isn't fast enough please?

 

[DaGwaphics]

Here's hoping something good comes from this.

That Intel car video a month or two ago showing ML improvements was slick looking. But who knows what kind of result Xbox consoles would get out of it. I dont know how powerful the PC rigs were based on that old video. Maybe they were uber PC rigs.

Will be interesting whenever we finally get some real-world examples of games using XESS. Until then you really can't gauge the value.

 

[MonarchJT]

How exactly can what is needed for eye tracking be software based when it supposed to save on performance and achieve 2000 X 2040 per eye and a high frame rate to avoid motion sickness?

You are running out of excuses now.

yawn

Software-based Variable Rate Shading in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare

research.activision.com

 

[Loxus]

Do you?

Link who says that it isn't fast enough please?

Link were it can't be done via hardware on PS5.

You never use sources dude.

 

[Riky]

Link were it can't be done via hardware on PS5.

You never use sources dude.

I've given you two, Digital Foundry and id.

 

[assurdum]

I've given you two, Digital Foundry and id.

Er DF and id said ps5 doesn't support amd mesh shaders not it's impossible to achieve it in other way. VRS is impossible on ps5?

 

[DaGwaphics]

Make them believe they have their special sauce ... a rude awakening will wait them. They already have it in the multiplat results.

Who on earth is talking about "special sauce"? Only a fool would think these boxes have hidden tricks that haven't been announced yet. LOL

At most they have known capabilities that haven't been fully realized yet in the cross-gen phase.

This is a thread about Intel XESS and how it appears that Xbox Series is compatible with the requirements due to specifications announced many moons ago. No secret sauce.

 

[assurdum]

Who on earth is talking about "special sauce"? Only a fool would think these boxes have hidden tricks that haven't been announced yet. LOL

At most they have known capabilities that haven't been fully realized yet in the cross-gen phase.

This is a thread about Intel XESS and how it appears that Xbox Series is compatible with the requirements due to specifications announced many moons ago. No secret sauce.

I'm talking about people who uses the mesh shaders argument as something literally impossible to reply on ps5 when not support amd mesh shaders doesn't implies exactly that. Not at all.

 

[Riky]

Er DF and id said ps5 doesn't support amd mesh shaders not it's impossible to achieve it in other way. VRS is impossible on ps5?

Mesh Shaders are nothing to do with Tier 2 VRS hardware support.

 

[MonarchJT]

Link were it can't be done via hardware on PS5.

You never use sources dude.

we know that metro Exodus enhanced ed. ....have official vrs hw support on series console and is software based on ps5

 

[assurdum]

Mesh Shaders are nothing to do with Tier 2 VRS hardware support.

But where you readen mesh shaders are impossible to obtain on ps5? What ps5 can achieve with primitive shaders is extremely similar to what mesh shaders do on xsx.

 

[Riky]

But where you read mesh shaders are impossible on ps5?

Mesh Shaders are an evolution of Primitive Shaders with more granular control over the pipeline. How much difference that will make is unknown, it may give extra performance or it may just make developers lives easier.
All we know is that Series consoles contain RDNA2 hardware support for Mesh Shaders as per the joint statement from AMD and in the Road to PS5 Cerny described PS5 as using Primitive Shaders in the Geometry Engine section.

 

[assurdum]

Mesh Shaders are an evolution of Primitive Shaders with more granular control over the pipeline. How much difference that will make is unknown, it may give extra performance or it may just make developers lives easier.
All we know is that Series consoles contain RDNA2 hardware support for Mesh Shaders as per the joint statement from AMD and in the Road to PS5 Cerny described PS5 as using Primitive Shaders in the Geometry Engine section.

You don't answer to my question. Lack of the hardware support for amd mesh shaders doesn't means you can't emulate the mesh shader behaviour in other ways.

 

[Riky]

You don't answer to my question. Lack of the hardware support for amd mesh shaders doesn't means you can't emulate the mesh shader behaviour in other ways.

I've just told you, Primitive Shaders do pretty much the same job as Mesh Shaders, it's just pipeline differences. So they have no need to "emulate" Mesh Shaders.

 

[Loxus]

yawn

Software-based Variable Rate Shading in Call of Duty: Modern Warfare

research.activision.com

This VRS is not the same as VRS Foveal Rendering, which is more advanced.
Describe by Nvidia.
NVIDIA VRSS 2: Dynamic Foveated Rendering
NVIDIA Variable Rate Supersampling (VRSS) leverages NVIDIA Variable Rate Shading (VRS), a key feature in NVIDIA’s Turing architecture, to increase VR image quality while maintaining high performance. And developers don’t have to write a single line of code to use it.

Foveated rendering is a technique where a region of the HMD screen is sampled at a higher shading rate. The first VRSS version supported fixed foveated rendering in the center. The latest version of VRSS 2 expands on foveated rendering and supports gaze tracking by integrating eye-tracking technology. Now the foveated region is dynamic and changes based on where the user looks.

Hardware is required and how would latency be running on software alone?

 

[assurdum]

I've just told you, Primitive Shaders do pretty much the same job as Mesh Shaders, it's just pipeline differences. So they have no need to "emulate" Mesh Shaders.

That doesn't mean you can't use mesh shaders on ps5 though.

 

[MonarchJT]

This VRS is not the same as VRS Foveal Rendering, which is more advanced.
Describe by Nvidia.
NVIDIA VRSS 2: Dynamic Foveated Rendering
NVIDIA Variable Rate Supersampling (VRSS) leverages NVIDIA Variable Rate Shading (VRS), a key feature in NVIDIA’s Turing architecture, to increase VR image quality while maintaining high performance. And developers don’t have to write a single line of code to use it.

Foveated rendering is a technique where a region of the HMD screen is sampled at a higher shading rate. The first VRSS version supported fixed foveated rendering in the center. The latest version of VRSS 2 expands on foveated rendering and supports gaze tracking by integrating eye-tracking technology. Now the foveated region is dynamic and changes based on where the user looks.

Hardware is required and how would latency be running on software alone?

i know what foveated rendering is don't think (personal opinion) have any specific hw to do it.....

 

[Loxus]

You don't answer to my question. Lack of the hardware support for amd mesh shaders doesn't means you can't emulate the mesh shader behaviour in other ways.

What's funny is these guys completely dismiss everything Cerny says, like they developed a console.

Just like how Primitive Shaders in the PS5 is an advanced usage of the Geometry Engine. Ray Tracing is an advanced usage of an RDNA2 Compute Unit.

 

[Riky]

That doesn't mean you can't use mesh shaders on ps5 though.

You need specific hardware support for it, according to Microsoft and AMD only Series consoles have that.

"Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today."

 

[Dust-by-Monday]

This thread is fascinating.

 

[assurdum]

You need specific hardware support for it, according to Microsoft and AMD only Series consoles have that.

"Xbox Series X|S are the only next-generation consoles with full hardware support for all the RDNA 2 capabilities AMD showcased today."

That's not true, come on now. Why VRS is possible on console who doesn't support the AMD VRS? Because it's not via hardware.

 

[M1chl]

Picture slightly related.

 

[Loxus]

That's not true, come on now. Why VRS is possible on console who doesn't support the AMD VRS? Because it's not via hardware.

He still doesn't understand that XBSX/S is the only console that supports DirectX 12 Ultimate features. Features the PS5 doesn't support because it uses it's own API features.

 

[HoofHearted]