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XSEED Teases 2015 Releases With New Years Image
- Thread starter Takao
- Start date
No one actually types "G.I.R.L." on 4chan. That term lasted about 2 days before it fell into complete disuse. People continue to use the word "trap" online in a non-trans* manner to this very day, however, and it is absolutely the go-to word for men pretending to be women within the darker recesses of the internet. "G.I.R.L." would've been incredibly disingenuous to use there, and totally destroyed the immersion of Pitter.
It was my bad continuing to argue the situation on Twitter, however, and it's partially because of that that I stepped down from the XSEED Twitter altogether. I shouldn't have argued it there, and I'm sorry to anyone who was offended by the things I said therein.
However, I do still feel that it was not a mistake to use the term in that context, and while you are free to disagree with me, the fact remains that it's just opinion vs. opinion at this point. You believe it was wrong of us to use that when there are other things we could've written instead, and I believe there was simply nothing else we could've written that would sound as authentic to the tone intended by the original Japanese text. Many possible alternatives were suggested, but not a single one of them would work as far as we in localization are concerned.
...Either way, this is not the topic to be discussing localization decisions in Akiba's Trip. If you wish to continue discussing the matter, I would suggest creating an account on the XSEED forums and posting in the topic that I created there specifically for that reason:
http://forum.marvelous-usa.com/index.php?showtopic=27749
Some have said that this topic is clearly an attempt to control the situation, but if you read through it, you'll see that we've welcomed and respectfully debated opposing viewpoints in that topic for pages upon pages, with very little discontent. As long as you remain respectful of opposing viewpoints, you're free to debate there as long as you'd like, and I'll be more than happy to respectfully engage you as well. It should at least be clear that no offense was actually intended by anyone at XSEED, nor that anyone at XSEED believes that word is appropriate to use in real life, nor that anyone at XSEED has anything but the utmost respect for trans* individuals -- so let's discuss the matter like rational adults and try to come to a mutual understanding. We're not out to make waves, we just want to bring you games with the most accurate and natural-sounding localizations possible!
-Tom
PixyJunket
Member
Who gets to decide right and wrong? You?
If they had used that translation, I would have had no idea what the dialogue is about, as I've never heard of that before. But with the one shown in the screenshot in the article I linked it's easy to follow -- and again, I don't see any reason for equating a character in a game saying something offensive with the game being offensive. As such, it seems like a better and more effective translation to me.
I take it you don't frequent /a/? The context is that the internet conversations are supposed to represent what goes around in 2ch, and 4chan is the English equivalent. It's a game parodying otaku culture, and in the west, there's practically no one on /a/ who will settle for G.I.R.L. "Trap" is even commonly used in fansubs. It's just something that anime viewers in particular are familiar with, and anything else certainly seems less accurate given the context. Now, if Akiba's Trip had a different setting and premise and it was just an ordinary conversation, then I'm positive that "trap" wouldn't have been used, because for every other context, you're right in that there are better choices.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
Honestly, regardless of what your personal feelings on the translation are, the worst part of the while debacle is that now we have to suffer someone bringing it up every time XSEED is mentioned.
Acquiescence
Member
Somebody needs to make the anime video game equivalent of Eastbound & Down, just so I can see the internet collapse on itself in the ensuing madness of its release. Man, what I'd give to play as the Japanese Kenny Powers.
Anyway, if the use of the word 'trap' by an established in-game troll is what constitutes as controversial these days then I just don't know anymore.
Anyway, if the use of the word 'trap' by an established in-game troll is what constitutes as controversial these days then I just don't know anymore.
Higgins113
Banned
Calm down there G.I.R.L.
It really doesn't. It's incredibly off-topic, in fact. Where are the moderators to steer this line of discussion back to the topic at hand?
OH WAIT.
-Tom
charlequin
Banned
Caring more about whether 4chan thought someone's lingo was accurate than whether you're hurting people in your audience with slurs doesn't really do much to soften my position on this. Are you gonna start using "fag" and "sperglord" in your localizations now too?
if only there were some way for XSEED to use human language to reduce the dissatisfaction people feel about this issue
So I take it the game also throws 'fag' around a lot, too? I mean, that's accurate to 4chan, right? Fully emulating a site like that isn't good for anybody. It's not something that should be aspired to. You can relate to otaku culture without sinking that low. There are other words to use.
At any rate, let's drop it, and allow the thread to get back on track.
Disgaeamad
Member
I think it speaks volumes for the attitude of GAF's mod team when they're trying their very hardest to disrupt this thread with old debates when literally no one else cares about it. Please, just give up and let other people discuss topics related to the thread.
EDIT: Good to see others pointing this out too.
EDIT: Good to see others pointing this out too.
If those were appropriate localization decisions, yes. I mean... Pitter is basically 4chan. So of course we're going to use 4chan terminology when localizing Pitter text. It may be offensive to some, but... that's kind of what it's supposed to be! Don't blame us for that. It's a satire of real life, and real life is often quite offensive. We're not going to dumb it down. We'd be pretty awful localizers if we did that.
-Tom
Shouta
Member
It's not more effective actually. The Japanese translation has 1 clear meaning. Even if we accept the reasoning behind the usage of the word in English, that's two meanings it has. In this context, it isn't clear which one it is.
Indeed. Accuracy was matched with that translation and people criticizing don't seem to want to embrace the "context" that well.
But....
Perpetrated by moderators no less. lol
In all honesty I really hope every XSEED thread does not devolve into this.
Can we go back to the image. Lots of promising guesses were made before derailment.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Soooo whats the last game?
Anyway, so if I got this right. This doesn't mean it's those games detective GAF sleuthed but it can be others perhaps related to that character, that company, that franchise, that everything? Meaning YS on PS4 might not be a pipe dream?
To be fair, the Japanese has one clear meaning only if you're "in the know." Most Japanese people would have no idea what "nekama" means, but anime otaku absolutely would.
Similarly, anime otaku absolutely would know what "trap" means in this context. It's regrettable that the word has another meaning in other contexts, but that doesn't change the fact that it is still the single most commonly-used word among the more "otaku" side of the English-speaking internet to refer to men who pretend to be women in order to curry favor with other men.
-Tom
The only alternative translation that was proposed so far is something most people in the target audience likely never even heard of. Forget emulating online communities, shouldn't the first goal of a translation be to be understandable for its targets? With that goal in mind I don't see any equally viable alternatives, not by a long shot.
I'm actually glad I waited. And it's smart for them to localize that game, as the previous versions were basically incomplete versions of the latest game lol
I know people are still upset about XSEED's unfortunate choice of word for Akiba's Trip, but yea, I do agree with Christhor's view. Kind of wish that the thread will focus back on the 2015 teases...
Can't wait for people to decipher the silhouette of Mecha-Epona from Barbie's Horse Adventures 2: The Bloodening.
...I mean, nothing! Never mind!
-Tom
I wonder if we'll get that one or the older PS3 title, which seems to be the artwork used. In any case, I've heard the combat for Z2 Chaos is actually rather improved compared to previous games. If it turns out to be true, it'll probably be one that I wait to drop down to $20-$30, considering the previous games were kind of budget titles.
Shouta
Member
But when you look at it from that perspective, G.I.R.L. (as an example), would make far more sense as a translation. You have to be "in the know" to understand what it means but if you aren't, it just looks like a regular word, perhaps spelled wrong or typed out wrong.
orthodoxy1095
Banned
I don't understand this at all. Media of all kinds use accurate slurs all the time. You've never heard words like "nigger," "fag" or "gook" in a TV show before? Should we rage at TV channels who broadcast shows that use that kind of language too? Because I'm sure people in those audiences have been hurt by the use of the slurs.
You're just shifting the burden of blame to XSEED. XSEED as an entity didn't take this thread off-topic. If only there were some way for people to not take threads off-topic.
This is a thread about their 2015 titles. If you're so desperate to have this conversation again, why not make another thread about it, instead of derailing another thread?
thx for keeping politics and personal views out of your translations. keep the good pc games coming dude.
dakkumauji
Member
Who knew that arms and legs would be so damn hard to tell apart from a silhouette!
CrimsonFist
Member
I feel like I've spent way too long today staring at anime arms and legs.
Someone suggest some games. I'm completely out of ideas.
they sure seem disgaeamad about it
Being held accountable for one's actions is fine, the debate here is about whether those actions were in any way problematic. And I haven't heard a single convincing argument as to that being the case so far.
Agreed.
I frequent many boards and have twitter (Tweetdeck) open always while browsing, and I have never seen the word "G.I.R.L" in my entire life in any sort of female-male disguise context.
XSEED made the right call with using the familiar word, even if it's not 100% accurate, because there are no more-accurate substitutes that people would actually understand.
Can we please get back on topic? I'm actually pretty hype that Onechanbara Z2 is being localized because it's like DMC made in a garage by two Japanese guys.
Nooooooooo. I love talking to Tom!
The thing is there are people "in the know" in the otaku community who don't know what G.I.R.L is, because G.I.R.L was never anything more than a fad, if you can even call it that.
Seriously, it's not like they were preaching hate against trans people by using the word "trap". It's a translation of a message that shows up in a fictional message board inspired by 4chan/2ch or whatever it is. You translate the words there and try to convey the meaning in them. As it happens, those places are full of people who come off being more offensive than the should, and, as such, the word "trap" fits perfectly, carrying both the tone and the meaning to pretty much anyone who belongs to the intended audience of the game.
Although to be fair, I think that if reading "trap" in this context upsets you, I'm fairly sure Akiba's Trip might not be the kind of game that you'd enjoy, with "TrapGate" or not. So, eh...
But the problem then would be, as evidenced above, that people in the know WOULDN'T understand the reference, since the term "G.I.R.L." barely even still exists, and many younger gamers have probably NEVER seen it used before in the entire time they've been on the internet.
And that's much worse, from a localization perspective. People who aren't part of the intended audience for a game may misinterpret the language used within it, but if you then decide to change that language into something that people who ARE part of the intended audience won't understand, you're basically sucking at your job as a localizer.
Taking the target audience into consideration is very much part of the job, and the target audience -- in this case -- is people who know and understand what "trap" means in this context, as they likely see it all the time (used as a non-trans* insult, or even a compliment in some cases!) in anime fansubs, on message forums, etc.
-Tom
i've been looking at the arms and legs of so many damn kiseki characters
Hey Tom, how about throwing out a hint about the last game?
That should help steer the discussion back to the original topic
I like this. Let's use the mods derailing the topic to get another hint.
And since we don't have one yet, I'll just say I see trap used all the goddamn time in anime circles, but probably wouldn't have recognized G.I.R.L. if we weren't already on that topic.
Disgaeamad
Member
No one uses this word. It is not a thing that happens.
For the love of god, regular users would have been banned for off topic disruption like this already. Why can't you mods uphold your own rules for once?
1. My favourite show for a while was The Boondocks. Man there is a lot of awful things said there. Still love it.
2. Yes please. Do another thread. I don't want this locked due to water under the bridge.
I still can't figure out how they caught the Onenenechanbarasomething.
CrimsonFist
Member
I found a list of unlocalised games and picked one to look up that sounded familiar.
So I just got lucky basically
8 X 11 Printer Paper
Member
It's starting to look like Cell's (DBZ) or the King's (HxH) Tail to me....or a penis with a spike but I like my other though process better.
My guess is the sword hilt was the initial hint. Working backwards from there was pretty smart if you limit your search to silhouettes.