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Opinion XSX vs PS5 TFlop delta is WAY overblown

VFXVeteran

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Just curious, what's your personal favorite

That's hard because every game has a glaring subpar feature that I immediately pick out when I'm playing it. LOL.

I really don't have a favorite because I may love one implementation in one game but another implementation in another game.
 
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XSX is more powerful by a decent margin but both are gonna be great. Everyone needs to chill out.

You’re absolutely right.

Nothing will stop it though. It’s gonna get more intense over the next couple months, then die down a little, rekindle around launch, then go nuclear when DF comparisons start
 
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darkinstinct

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How are Xbox gamers going to deal with 1-3 second longer load times than PS5 :/

During which they will probably watch a cutscene anyway, so the longer loading time might not even be visible. Even at game boot the logos will be longer than the loading on either platform.
 

Sacred

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Another topic on this, we won't know anything until we get real world testing, but it is more like a 20-30% power difference as PS5 will not be able to maintain a boost clock speed under heavy load.
 

geordiemp

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Another topic on this, we won't know anything until we get real world testing, but it is more like a 20-30% power difference as PS5 will not be able to maintain a boost clock speed under heavy load.

Source ?

You seem to know more than Cerny, lead architect....tell us more please ?

We need to learn from the smart and knowledgeable..../s
 
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eastwood333

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Another topic on this, we won't know anything until we get real world testing, but it is more like a 20-30% power difference as PS5 will not be able to maintain a boost clock speed under heavy load.
Just as DF was pointing out.
 
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Quote From Eurogamer:

Storage is one area where Sony has a clear advantage over Microsoft. The PlayStation 5’s custom 825 GB SSD has a theoretical transfer rate of over 8 GB/s, factoring in its compression algorithm. This allows it fill up the PS5’s 16 GB of shared memory in just 2 seconds. The Xbox Series X on the other hand features an NVMe SSD that offers a guaranteed 2.4 GB/S of throughput. It’s important here to remember that neither of these figures is exactly lacking. 7200 RPM hard drives offer peak transfer rates of around 200 MB/s, which is less than 10 percent of what the Xbox Series X manages. 2.4 GB/S is blazing fast.

Nevertheless, the PlayStation 5 delivers over 2 times the nominal storage throughput and over 4 time the notional throughput once we factor in compression. The Xbox Series X’s SSD is evidently fast enough to enable features like Quick Resume and eliminating in-game loading screens, as well as the extended memory concept. At this point, we’re not quite sure how the PlayStation 5’s significantly faster SSD will or can be used, though, again, minimised loading times and enhanced asset streaming are likely to be key use cases.


In terms of memory, the PlayStation 5 offers developers a unified 16 GB pool of GDDR6, across a 256-bit memory bus for 448 GB/S of bandwidth. The Xbox Series X, in contrast, offers 10 GB of memory at 560 GB/S and a further 6 GB at 336 GB/S. While split memory architectures have had a bad rap (the GTX 970 and the PlayStation 3 come to mind), 10 GB is a lot of very high-speed memory. By using the 6 GB for less critical purposes, the Series X can utilise most of the high-speed memory for the GPU, and leverage that bandwidth to scale better at 4K. All in all, the memory configuration for the Series X is just better suited to the ninth-gen 4K resolution standard.

Basically, Sony's claimed performance relies COMPLETELY on efficiency of linear scaling in RDNA architectures, which RDNA1 was very poor at. Neither system is using 7nm EUV, so they won't enjoy the node benefits that process brings. However, that isn't to say they are using "raw" DUV the way RDNA1 does, either.

While the Eurogamer article suggests a real-world practical performance delta of upwards 30% in favor of XSX on the GPU side, it gives 20% on its low end, so it's probably safe to put the actual potential delta cap at around 25%, striking right in the middle. So the chances are real that the actual performance delta on GPU side is larger than the paper 15% - 17% we can work out through the spec numbers provided themselves.

But we shall see.

Another topic on this, we won't know anything until we get real world testing, but it is more like a 20-30% power difference as PS5 will not be able to maintain a boost clock speed under heavy load.

It's not so much if PS5 can maintain those clocks (I fully expect it to majority of the time; technically intensive games or poorly optimized titles might cause the 2% drop in clock frequencies Cerny mentioned), so much as it is the fact that simply clocking the GPU that high might not bring anywhere near the linear scaling in performance Sony would like to claim. We already have RDNA1 cards that show how poorly performance gains get once you start pushing super-high clocks.

PS5 will fare a bit better in that regard due to being on improved 7nm node, but it (nor XSX) are true 7nm EUV, and there is probably good reason why MS locked their GPU clock to 1825MHz; that is probably a little around the north spot of the sweetspot range for RDNA2 on their improved 7nm process. The northern end of the sweetspot may be higher on EUV, but again, neither console is using EUV.

So we have a situation where Sony is still pushing well past the sweetspot range, otherwise I venture MS would've felt comfortable clocking XSX's GPU even a tad higher. Although yes, they have a bigger chip, that plays into it as well, but again we can look at RDNA1 cards with chips the size of PS5's and see how little performance gains they got in real-world applications with much higher clocks.

It will mainly come down to how Sony's 1st party can work around the issues, but it's suffice to say the GPU performance delta between PS5 and XSX might be noticeably larger than 15% - 17% in real-world applications due to the factors I've just mentioned.
 
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darkinstinct

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Maybe. Are you certain PS5 doesn't have VRS?
They sure didn't want to talk about it, while they did talk about 3D audio for a very long time. I'm with Leadbetter, the "RDNA2" of PS5 is actually RDNA1 with select RDNA2 features like raytracing. VRS does not seem to have made the cut. Audio as well. One of the new features of RDNA2 is a dedicated 3D sound solution, so why does Sony create their own? Same for mesh shading, why do they create their own Geometry engine if it's baked into RDNA2 at the hardware level? And the wording regarding raytracing was very curious: "Our raytracing solution follows the same strategy as AMD's raytracing solution". So it might not actually be the same, just using the same principles of how it accelerates raytracing.
 

Jigga117

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They sure didn't want to talk about it, while they did talk about 3D audio for a very long time. I'm with Leadbetter, the "RDNA2" of PS5 is actually RDNA1 with select RDNA2 features like raytracing. VRS does not seem to have made the cut. Audio as well. One of the new features of RDNA2 is a dedicated 3D sound solution, so why does Sony create their own? Same for mesh shading, why do they create their own Geometry engine if it's baked into RDNA2 at the hardware level? And the wording regarding raytracing was very curious: "Our raytracing solution follows the same strategy as AMD's raytracing solution". So it might not actually be the same, just using the same principles of how it accelerates raytracing.

Yes and on top of that it is "global illumination" vs MS dedicated RT hardware.
 

GymWolf

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Why are people assuming 4k is the max res these consoles will output?
because a 2080ti (in combo with a beast cpu)is 13++ teraflop and it can't do 4k60 frame with heavy current gen games.
the idea of next gen console going over 4k if they wanna mantain 60 frame or high details or rtx in big heavy games is kinda ludicrous.

but they can probably push resolution with smaller game or indie or extremely scripted game like until down maybe (if they don't wanna push details to the max of course)
 
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Goliathy

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The largest delta is in fact the SSD. GPU, RAM & CPU are more important to overall system performance, but the biggest delta is in the SSD.

He said largest PERFORMANCE DELTA, which is wrong. The delta of the gpu/CPU has a much much bigger performance impact than having a very fast SSD compared to a very very fast SSD
 

Bolivar687

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In a world of dynamic and custom resolutions, the power differences in these consoles are going to be imperceptible outside of DF videos. And, even then, you're going to have a lot of weird matchups, like Modern Warfare having absurd screen tearing on the One X but much more stability on the Pro.

The sooner Xbox fans accept this, the easier it's going to be for them to process when their next $500 console is being outpaced just as quickly as the last two (One X and One).
 
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RCU005

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Instead of comparing and complaining about the delta in TFlops, we should be incredibly happy about how we are getting consoles that are more than 10 TFlops from less than 2. It’s a huge difference!!! We should be talking about that! What can devs do with all this difference in power?

The Xbox One X is 6 TFlops but we all know it couldn’t be used for other than technical stuff like resolution, etc. it was practically gettin wasted. This time, we will get games that are not going to be possible at all on current consoles! Not only in technical stuff, but in design, in graphics, in AI, in loading times! This is what’s exciting, not the difference from one console to another!
 

Goliathy

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They sure didn't want to talk about it, while they did talk about 3D audio for a very long time. I'm with Leadbetter, the "RDNA2" of PS5 is actually RDNA1 with select RDNA2 features like raytracing. VRS does not seem to have made the cut. Audio as well. One of the new features of RDNA2 is a dedicated 3D sound solution, so why does Sony create their own? Same for mesh shading, why do they create their own Geometry engine if it's baked into RDNA2 at the hardware level? And the wording regarding raytracing was very curious: "Our raytracing solution follows the same strategy as AMD's raytracing solution". So it might not actually be the same, just using the same principles of how it accelerates raytracing.

There has been rumors that PS5 should have shopped in 2019 - when RDNA 2.0 wasn’t ready. That’s why they created their own. I think we have a lot of hints now that point to that this is actually true.


Anyone who thinks that having a faster ssd will make a difference, should watch that video.
 

Connxtion

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In a world of dynamic and custom resolutions, the power differences in these consoles are going to be imperceptible outside of DF videos. And, even then, you're going to have a lot of weird matchups, like Modern Warfare having absurd screen tearing on the One X but much more stability on the Pro.

The sooner Xbox fans accept this, the easier it's going to be for them to process when their next $500 console is being outpaced just as quickly as the last two (One X and One).

I suspect that’s down to the deal with Sony, as the XB1X version only has a dynamic resolution on the horizontal axis, the pro does it on both axis and thus gets better performance.

Im still scratching my head as to why they don’t add it to the XB1X version and only thing I can come up with is the deal with Sony. It has to play best there since Sony paid a substantial amount to get a exclusivity/marketing deal.

It’s the only conclusion I can come to as there is zero reason otherwise.

I agree with DF will be the only ones who know a difference, as long as the FPS is fine i can’t really tell a difference from 5 feet away in regards to resolution.
 
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Jigsaah

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PlayStation fans are just butthurt

Literally copy and pasted that. Sorry, not sorry. Truth is truth.

I do agree that it's overblown and Sony fans are making it worse by posting all these panic threads.
 

gamerforever

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This is the largest gap on tf alone in history. The comparison between ps4 pro and xbox one x is really silly imo. We will see much bigger differences this generation and the ps5 will have significantly inferior multiplatform ports.

It’s pretty obvious that Sony are looking to make a profit and market this as a mass market product and the series x clearly is not. The introduction of lockhart will harm microsoft because people won’t want an inferior machine with less exclusives than ps5, and would rather spend an extra £100.
 
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Jigga117

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This is the largest gap on tf alone in history. The comparison between ps4 pro and xbox one x is really silly imo. We will see much bigger differences this generation and the ps5 will have significantly inferior multiplatform ports.

It’s pretty obvious that Sony are looking to make a profit and market this as a mass market product and the series x clearly is not. The introduction of lockhart will harm microsoft because people won’t want an inferior machine with less exclusives than ps5, and would rather spend an extra £100.
If a Lockhart is coming out. I believe the only difference is a digital only and 1440p max device. Plus games scale so I don’t know why this is a concern
 
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hyperbertha

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Yup cuz the difference from 1.4 to 1.8 tf is way bigger than 12.1 to a variable of 9.2 - 10.2 tf lol.

Best case is a whole ps4 difference. Worst case is 3 tf weaker.

That math tho lmao
Not really. A 1TF GPU vs 2TF GPU creates astronomical difference in performance but a 9 TF vs a 11 TF GPU isn't nearly as noticeable, even though the actual difference this time is 2TF. Its a case of diminishing returns the higher you go. Any framerate drops the ps5 will experience can be taken back with dynamic resolution scaling, so xbseX games will be constant 4k while ps5 will probably vary between 1800p and 4k.
 
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hyperbertha

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This is the largest gap on tf alone in history. The comparison between ps4 pro and xbox one x is really silly imo. We will see much bigger differences this generation and the ps5 will have significantly inferior multiplatform ports.

It’s pretty obvious that Sony are looking to make a profit and market this as a mass market product and the series x clearly is not. The introduction of lockhart will harm microsoft because people won’t want an inferior machine with less exclusives than ps5, and would rather spend an extra £100.
Not accurate. the perceivable differences are smaller actually.
 
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Zero707

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I wouldn't be surprised if PS5 actually has more performance than XsX as this is what some devs have been hinting

We'll find out when Digital Floundry do their biased Face Offs.
not gonna happen unless dves decide to up the resolution on XSX and called it a day
 

Neo_game

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The difference is much less than previous console. If Xbox runs at native 4K which is 8million pixels. PS5 will probably be running at 6million pixels. I do not think tf is the problem but if Microsoft claim that 10gb is enough for gfx ??? Since it is at 560gb/sec. Then PS4 10gb is little slower at 448gb/sec. Ram is the worst part about next gen console.
 
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Oemenia

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Seriously you guys are bringing on the butthurt onto yourselves.

Let it go.
 
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PS5 will hit bottleneck so fast it’s not even funny. It’s hilariously underpowered and no one is gonna develop on it other than first parties. It’s THAT gimped. No one cares about an SSD when the competitor has one as well.

Sony fans are desperate, these hot takes are hilarious. It’s WEAK get over it. Nothing will change. Enjoy pseudo-4K games at 30fps that load in four seconds opposed to 7 on Series X at native 4K/60.
What a pathetic post.
 

The_Mike

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Sure, it's possible that Xbox will have things that makes it far, far better than PS5. VRS being one of them. It doesn't matter to me. The point is just that TFlops don't matter.

At least not anymore on the blue side.
 

kingbean

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Which one has blast processing?

That's the one I'm rooting for.

Just like my brand new Sega Genesis.
 

LordKasual

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Not really. A 1TF GPU vs 2TF GPU creates astronomical difference in performance but a 9 TF vs a 11 TF GPU isn't nearly as noticeable, even though the actual difference this time is 2TF. Its a case of diminishing returns the higher you go. Any framerate drops the ps5 will experience can be taken back with dynamic resolution scaling, so xbseX games will be constant 4k while ps5 will probably vary between 1800p and 4k.

Pretty much.

Just about the only situation where this minuscule power difference would be noticed on multiplats would be if BOTH consoles have the exact same approach to things like Resolution, which eats up all the power in these games anyway.

If PS5 tries to maintain Native 4K on all its titles, it's going to suffer FPS problems compared to XSX. But that's fucking stupid and they would never do that because it's a massive waste of resources.

And while XSX titles can ABSOLUTELY abuse its horsepower by using the same techniques to push more visuals on XSX, no multi-plat title would do this because it would alienate PS5.


So...once again....the differences in architecture are going to be seen in 1st-party only.
 
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Genx3

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I wouldn't be surprised if PS5 actually has more performance than XsX as this is what some devs have been hinting

We'll find out when Digital Floundry do their biased Face Offs.

The Gap is actually bigger than the Specs imply with that variable Frequency GPU and CPU.
Any dev saying otherwise is out right lying just like so many dev insiders were lying about the TF and CU counts of the PS5.

There are a lot of Pro Sony people spewing nonsense such as Jason Schreier who has always been a Pro Sony/PS anti Xbox journalist. Do not trust people that are willing to lie to you.

You're going to be very disappointed if you think the PS5 is going to magically run games better. Devs would have to purposely make games run worse on XSX.
Be happy the PS5 is no slouch and Sony's 1st party games will still look amazing.
 
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The Gap is actually bigger than the Specs imply with that variable Frequency GPU and CPU.
Any dev saying otherwise is out right lying just like so many dev insiders were lying about the TF and CU counts of the PS5.

There are a lot of Pro Sony people spewing nonsense such as Jason Schreier who has always been a Pro Sony/PS anti Xbox journalist. Do not trust people that are willing to lie to you.

You're going to be very disappointed if you think the PS5 is going to magically run games better. Devs would have to purposely make games run worse on XSX.
Be happy the PS5 is no slouch and Sony's 1st party games will still look amazing.

Games like frequency, PS5 has a 400Mhz advantage. If they can saturate those 36 CUs, whilst lots of Series x CU's are idling, there's only one winner. This is what devs have been saying, it's hard to utilise so many CUs. Better to have fewer, faster CUs.

See two can play your game :)
 

eastwood333

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Games like frequency, PS5 has a 400Mhz advantage. If they can saturate those 36 CUs, whilst lots of Series x CU's are idling, there's only one winner. This is what devs have been saying, it's hard to utilise so many CUs. Better to have fewer, faster CUs.

See two can play your game :)
DF would clearly have problem with your statement sir
 

KlickKlack

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Also, why are you using percentages? Let’s look at RAW NUMBERS.

XBOX ONE vs PS4 = 0.53 TFLOPS difference.
PS5 vs SXS = ~2 TFLOPS difference, maybe even MORE.
This is HUGE. This is A LOT of raw power, more than a whole PS4.

Sony friends have you seen was naughty dog can make with ca. 2TF of Power... mind blowing....

and because of this facts the graphical difference between xsx and ps5 will be mind blowing.

ps5 looks like a midgen refresh and not like new gen..
 

PropellerEar

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Zen2 is powerful enough running at almost any frequency for 4K games.
Only condition where you would need the max freq out of zen2 is running the idiotic 720p max frame rate tests.

Not fan of this AMD smart shift CPU/GPU boost, peak TF PR and having only 36CUs.

That said I will still get PS5 day 1.
More TF won't make me want to go Xbox, they need to show interesting games such as they had in the beginning of 360 era.
 

Journey

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That's the perfect opposite of what we hear from devs.


Link?


Here's one

 

quest

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Games like frequency, PS5 has a 400Mhz advantage. If they can saturate those 36 CUs, whilst lots of Series x CU's are idling, there's only one winner. This is what devs have been saying, it's hard to utilise so many CUs. Better to have fewer, faster CUs.

See two can play your game :)
You should work for nvidia and AMD they got it all wrong they need to go the net burst p4 route a few cuda or CUs clocked just short of exploding am I right?
 

Vawn

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Most people know that, but they desperately want something to use in a console war.