• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • The Politics forum has been nuked. Please do not bring political discussion to the rest of the site, or you will be removed. Thanks.

Opinion XSX vs PS5 TFlop delta is WAY overblown

TheMan

Member
Jul 31, 2006
8,900
1,542
1,715
You may very well be right OP...computers nowadays are too complex to be compared using a single number like teraflops.

Better to compare game output, online strategies, subscriptions services, etc. Of course we have very little in the way of information about these things yet, but hopefully we will by summer (corona virus bullshit notwithstanding)
 
Last edited:
Jan 29, 2019
6,626
7,281
520
tl;dr Both consoles are beasts. TFlops don't matter.
They do, well, up to a point.

I have taken a wait and see approach, but a 17% performance in GPUs of that caliber is no big deal.... I mean, you have one that would perform like a 2080ti vs one that would perform a bit less than a 2080.... like you know which one is better, but in the end games that are maxed out will look so close that it may not even be possible to tell the difference(s) in an analysis, I mean... Dropping the resolution by 20% when there are explosions or some other distractions is not close to the top of what I consider problems, nor would it be "sub par" performance.

I just hope Sony's studios deliver the goods, otherwise they are screwed (and no I am not interested in Gamepass).
No its not. GPU, RAM and CPU are.
Can you show me which specs are are looking at? Maybe you need glasses.

  • RAM is partially true, I mean, it's not all 500something on the series x, don't act like this is not a compromise (compromises are good, they save us money).
  • The CPUs are so close that they are essentially the same.
  • The GPU on the sx has a 17% advantage... even if it was locked at 9.2 it would not be on par with the delta of SSD performance in these systems.
  • The SSD on the other hand is over twice as fast on the PS5, and it has some interesting tweaks in how it's accessed (+ you could eventually replace it with an nvme 4.0 drive of your choice... which may seem expensive now, but they will eventually be like SATA drives are now... obsolete and cheap)
 
Last edited:

RPSleon

Member
Apr 3, 2015
385
497
595
Xbox One got absolutely clowned on at release, and Sony could do no wrong. It was a lot less civil than this right now. Things have flipped though with the Xbox taking the crown this generation before we have even started.
Sorry, i meant to write "years" ago. As in, ~10 years. I just remember a better level of respect and less of the fanboy crap.

Ive not been here for a while and only recently joined again.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: MiyazakiHatesKojima

Ma-Yuan

Member
Jul 31, 2017
776
1,277
495
It's the same situation as with Xbox one x and ps4 pro. Pro outsells the x because of their games. If Ms can step their first party line up up they win otherwise Sony. That's it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrAspirino

hyperbertha

Member
Nov 24, 2018
2,197
7,219
625
PS5 is 125% faster on SSD than XSX to be precise. I read somewhere that the console could load an entire level by the time your character does a 180° turn. A game made to exploit that capability is pretty much tied to that system. Anything slower breaks it. I imagine God of War 2 to have instant realm travel for example.
Where did you read that?
 

Swaganizonda

Banned
Dec 17, 2019
117
222
225
Where did you read that?
I think it's in Digital Foundry video about their reaction to ps5 specs and it's the older dude that says something like that. Also something something "capable of filling the entire gaming allocated RAM in 2 seconds" something something.

A game design locked to an SSD that powerful needs severe level redesign to run on another SSD that is not even half as fast. And that's were ps5 will shine and no ammount of gpu tflops can save the situation.
 
  • Like
Reactions: hyperbertha

MilkyJoe

Member
Jan 29, 2014
11,815
7,838
885
GitHub, 9.2, and team Xbox’s gas lighting on teraflops being the end all be all metrics has done serious psychological damage to some people.

The Ps5 is *10.3, not 9.2.

Accept that. I get it, 12 doesn’t look as good against 10. It remains to be seen but I’d think 399 would the number that matters and between the 2 of them Sony is most likely to be the one to get there.

*up to 10.3
 
Nov 5, 2017
185
108
245
yeah 10.08 to 10.28 based on cerny .10% electrical power reduction by dropping the clocks 2%.
Actually, Cerny says he EXPECTS the the GPU to spend most of its time at OR CLOSE to that frequency (2.23ghz). Cerny doesn't know, but he thinks it might be close to 10.28.
 

Fulcizombie

Report me if I continue to console war
Apr 1, 2018
640
1,162
500
It's the same situation as with Xbox one x and ps4 pro. Pro outsells the x because of their games. If Ms can step their first party line up up they win otherwise Sony. That's it.
First of all we have no idea if the pro actually outsells the x, the ps4 is outselling the Xbox one. Secondly, no the ps4 isn’t outselling the Xbox one because of the games, it has huge brand recognition and was helped by the Xbox one launch debacle , and it was a debacle in everything (power, price ), thus gaining huge momentum way before the games (which are basically 1-2 big games per year) arrived.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: DrAspirino

ZywyPL

Member
Nov 27, 2018
5,788
10,239
725
yeah 10.08 to 10.28 based on cerny .10% electrical power reduction by dropping the clocks 2%.

Pretty sure he clearly said "a couple of %"... I know people are downplaying every single unpleasant bit of information as much as possible to not to mention the 9.xx TF figure, but that's what it is, PS5 is more or less a 10TF gaming console, there's no need/no point in denying reality.
 

Agnostic2020

Member
Oct 24, 2017
4,672
19,829
805
Pretty sure he clearly said "a couple of %"... I know people are downplaying every single unpleasant bit of information as much as possible to not to mention the 9.xx TF figure, but that's what it is, PS5 is more or less a 10TF gaming console, there's no need/no point in denying reality.
i m sure soon it will be clarified by next round of interview with digital foundry
 
  • Like
Reactions: ZywyPL

Goliathy

Member
Mar 18, 2020
440
1,423
340
before we can say how much it matters, sony needs to show and tell us exactly how variable the clocks are. How low does it get? And in real games - not some 2d games or so - how long is it down? But be presicely, everything else is just bullshit.
 

Samsomite

Member
Oct 24, 2018
831
2,074
445
I don't think I'm trying to hide my stance or be unbiased. It's right there in the OP where I stand. What a redundant comment.

Read the comment I replied. You seem to be open to giving drive-by trash comments attention. Doesn't make the current thread or topic look any better if you are biased and blind to any argumentation.
 

CJY

Banned
Jan 8, 2016
2,561
5,636
725
Read the comment I replied. You seem to be open to giving drive-by trash comments attention. Doesn't make the current thread or topic look any better if you are biased and blind to any argumentation.
Regardless of what my stance is or bias, the point of the topic stands and the facts speak for themselves. If there are factual inaccuracies in the OP or the figures are somewhat skewed due to my biases, it's not my intention, but the figures in the OP doesn't have anything that would imply any kind of bias. After an OP is posted, I'm just part of the discussion like everybody else. It's not my job or obligation to be impartial.

Bottom line: Sorry it you're butthurt just because TFlops don't matter. "Discuss the post, not the poster"
 
Last edited:

Clear

Member
Feb 2, 2009
13,168
8,743
1,365
Funny how noone's bringing up PS3's superior specs over 360 not resolving to superior performance until years into the gen due to issues with its bus and memory arrangement.

25.6 gflops per SPE, and if you want a real laugh go look up the GPU specs of RSX versus Xenos.

On paper Sony's machine is the easy winner, but we all know how that turned out.
 
Last edited:

Infinite_Trajektory

Neo Member
Mar 18, 2020
14
7
90
Because certain people are overblowing the differences like OP stated.

While true, couldn't you also say that certain people are overlooking or downplaying the XsX feature set all together ?

When you look at both. They look solid. I was expecting less from both and I surely wasn't expecting Microsoft to come out like they did. But, there is a finessed, powerful like Project Scorpio likeness to their vision now. Which is dangerous only in the sense of, I believe we are going to see Microsoft open the doors on their re-creation as a division.

I fully expect to Sony to drop bombs as well. We should all want them to combat a little. Because then it pushes both companies from the core to give out the very best.

So I get that people are making too much by the numbers, but on the same turn ; maybe we aren't looking enough at what those numbers can mean ?
 

Sacred

Member
Aug 22, 2018
1,228
2,127
480
Can we all just agree that multiplats are going to perform better on the PS5? The inevitable meltdowns that are going to occur when multiplat after multiplat performs better on the PS5 is all but a given. And in the unlikely event that some titles, ported to the PS5, don't then the couple of FPS lost will be more than made up by the PS5's superior sound coprocessor, bus speeds and load times. I keep coming back to the word "creativity" when thinking about the PS5. All I see with the Xbox Series X is a grey PC box.


That is fucking bait if I have ever seen it.
 

hussar16

Member
Nov 4, 2019
193
205
230
its not overblown,if it will struggle to play next gen games at 4k or 60 fps then it is a problem
 

SonGoku

Member
Aug 16, 2018
4,747
6,564
635
I absolutely LOVE how “teraflops don’t matter” now.

super convenient, dontcha think?
Of course they matter the point is both consoles have beefy high end GPUs and the difference is so small (way smaller than this gen) it will amount to a small resolution difference. The PS5 bandwidth worries me more than anything GPU related.

For perspective:
Base PS4 & XBONE
  • PS4 is 38% faster
  • XBONE is 28% slower
Pro vs X
  • X is 42% faster
  • Pro is 30% slower
PS5 & SEX
  • SEX is 18%-21% faster
  • PS5 is 16%-18% slower
 
Last edited:
Jan 29, 2019
6,626
7,281
520
Can we all just agree that multiplats are going to perform better on the PS5? The inevitable meltdowns that are going to occur when multiplat after multiplat performs better on the PS5 is all but a given. And in the unlikely event that some titles, ported to the PS5, don't then the couple of FPS lost will be more than made up by the PS5's superior sound coprocessor, bus speeds and load times. I keep coming back to the word "creativity" when thinking about the PS5. All I see with the Xbox Series X is a grey PC box.

Are those raid zero floppy drives? they can be pretty fast!
 
Jan 29, 2019
6,626
7,281
520
Of course they matter the point is both consoles have beefy high end GPUs and the difference is so small (way smaller than this gen) it will amount to a small resolution difference. The PS5 bandwidth worries me more than anything GPU related.

For perspective:
Base PS4 & XBONE
  • PS4 is 38% faster
  • XBONE is 28% slower
Pro vs X
  • X is 42% faster
  • Pro is 30% slower
PS5 & SEX
  • SEX is 18%-21% faster
  • PS5 is 16%-18% slower
Talking about perspective, has you looked at what can happen when you connect an SSD directly to a GPU's memory pool? This is what Sony has done here, you can do things that just can't be done with a traditional setup, this may remove the biggest bottleneck to extremely detailed games rendering that nobody even talked about.

Games made for the PS5 will probably (nobody has seen it in action) have to have texture or other assets pop-in, or serious frame rate drops, when ported to competing platform.... It should let you put things on the screen that were unthinkable so far, unless you had one of those workstation GPUs with custom software made for it.

On the other hand assuming that this GPU is 18% slower on the PS5 you cut the resolution dynamically in a few extra intense moments and you still have a 4K 60 (or whatever frame rate you target)....

Comparisons will be pretty interesting, we don't know enough about Sony's Raytracing solution, we know even less how these will compare.

If Ms up their game as far as first party titles they will definitely be a though challenge, and I bet they will be inspired by Cerny's choices again when they revise their console.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Laconian Sword

Sosokrates

Founder of western console warring.
Feb 22, 2017
2,839
2,069
645
Blame the insiders for setting the ps5 tflop expectations very very high.
Many playstation fans were all gun ho ready to celebrate the PS5s 13tflop superiority, but when they found out the ps5 was 2tflop weaker, weaker cpu, weaker ram and some weird clock speed restrictions there world fell apart, they were crushed, and now the the craziest ones are trying to downplay the differences.
 

CJY

Banned
Jan 8, 2016
2,561
5,636
725
This shows just how terrible idea is to have high clocked GPU.

MS's next console after XSX will utilise a Variable Frequency, Continuous boost GPU/CPU like PS5. They might use different buzzwords, but it won't have fixed clocks.

Bookmark this post. You'll see.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Dec 25, 2019
11,090
20,893
1,025
Prague, Czech Republic
MS's next console after XSX will utilise a Variable Frequency, Continuous boost GPU/CPU like PS5. They might use different buzzwords, but it won't have fixed clocks.

Bookmark this post. You'll see.
I am not saying that they won't but if you need to draw 10% more power, while you get 2% higher clocks than it's not a good design.
 

CJY

Banned
Jan 8, 2016
2,561
5,636
725
I am not saying that they won't but if you need to draw 10% more power, while you get 2% higher clocks than it's not a good design.
You've got it backwards. It's a 10% reduction in power that will give you 2% less clock, but no CPU or GPU on the planet is pegged at 100% constantly, especially while gaming. MS just used the word "fixed" to confuse the misinformed.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Dec 25, 2019
11,090
20,893
1,025
Prague, Czech Republic
You've got it backwards. It's a 10% reduction in power that will give you 2% less clock, but no CPU or GPU on the planet is pegged at 100% constantly, especially while gaming. MS just used the word "fixed" to confuse the misinformed.
You said basically same thing, when GPU drop 2% on clocks which then draws 10% less power or at least that's what I read in the post I reacted to. And MS probably have sustained max on 1825Mhz, which than lowers when idle. But as in wording Sony appears to throttle the GPU in load for better thermal performance. I am not sure who is misinfromed, but GPU most definitely does not lower closk when loaded, if you does not have some vsync in play or something like that, even though 3D cloks at least on my RTX2070 goes to max value and stay on it during gaming. I am talking about clocks, obviously load is variable. On PC when utilising 3D graphics, closk automatically sets to maximum a GPU throttles when VRM cannot provide enough power (common in RTX, which is power bound, not thermal bound due to large die, so heat can easily be transfered due to bigger surface area).
 
  • Like
Reactions: CJY

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
6,192
3,185
1,695
You've got it backwards. It's a 10% reduction in power that will give you 2% less clock, but no CPU or GPU on the planet is pegged at 100% constantly, especially while gaming. MS just used the word "fixed" to confuse the misinformed.
Lol they did not it was Sony causing confusion with no detailed chart on the variable clocks. Let's blame Microsoft for having a home console act like every other one the correct way not variable. Variable is ok for pc and hand held but not home console where I pay for guaranteed performance not under this situation.
 

CJY

Banned
Jan 8, 2016
2,561
5,636
725
Lol they did not it was Sony causing confusion with no detailed chart on the variable clocks. Let's blame Microsoft for having a home console act like every other one the correct way not variable. Variable is ok for pc and hand held but not home console where I pay for guaranteed performance not under this situation.
Not the case, if every other console has been fixed why would MS needed to have come out and explicitly mention it. It's only because they knew about Sony's variable clocks and they tried to confuse the masses. It's clear that many people would also be confused about the variable clocks of PS5, but that's because it's totally new. I'm not saying Sony's messaging was good in any way, quite the contrary.
 

quest

Not Banned from OT
Jul 17, 2004
6,192
3,185
1,695
Not the case, if every other console has been fixed why would MS needed to have come out and explicitly mention it. It's only because they knew about Sony's variable clocks and they tried to confuse the masses. It's clear that many people would also be confused about the variable clocks of PS5, but that's because it's totally new. I'm not saying Sony's messaging was good in any way, quite the contrary.
They wanted to be clear they wouldn't throttle under heavy load like Sony. If they were not clear the internet would have 200 articles is the series x really 12tf or sometimes like Sony. Blame Sony they should of cut clocks and locked them avoid confusion.
 

CJY

Banned
Jan 8, 2016
2,561
5,636
725
They wanted to be clear they wouldn't throttle under heavy load like Sony. If they were not clear the internet would have 200 articles is the series x really 12tf or sometimes like Sony. Blame Sony they should of cut clocks and locked them avoid confusion.
I don't agree at all man, Sony's solution is a paradigm shift in how consoles and cooling systems are designed and is the future. Fact of the matter is that you keep using the word "throttle", but it's not doing anything of the sort. It can run at the maximum clocks indefinitely due to a constant power draw. It's just altering its clock based on workload. Look, I can keep talking to about it until I'm blue in face, but you won't try to understand what is going on until you see it, then something might click and you'll realise it's not what you think it is.

There are far better sources than me to explain what is going and the fact you still think it's throttling means you haven't educated yourself on this topic even to a basic degree, so I think we should continue this conversation another time when more clear, easily-digestable information is out there.
 
Last edited: