Support NeoGAF

[TexMex]

And do you not think gaming as a whole has got better? This is exactly what I'm saying! Games look and play great now. Better than ever in the history of gaming.

People dissing Spiderman 2, GOW Ragnorok, Halo Infinite, Hogwarts, Jedi Survivor, the list is endless. These games play and look great. It's just getting ridiculous and just smacks of entitlement.

You’ve never played Spider-Man 2, Halo had a myriad of issues and Jedi runs like total shit.

Beyond that I’m not sure you even understand what “entitlement” means. Expecting a AAA game you just spent $70 on to perform better than an N64 game is far from entitled.

 

[cinnamonandgravy]

incomplete discs, game-breaking bugs, and giant-ass patches are what stand out to me.

 

[01011001]

see my thread: https://www.neogaf.com/threads/why-30fps-was-once-acceptable-bit-isnt-anymore-mostly.1656129/

 

[DeepEnigma]

Nobody forgot, well, maybe. Gamers do have some amnesia when convenient.

Doesn't mean we should not demand for them to be better.

 

[Ps5ProFoSho]

Expectations and standards change with time dude.

Yeah but there's a certain generation that expects every game ever made should be the best game they've ever seen, with the best graphics ever known to man; with no glitches or patches needed ever.

 

[tmlDan]

Some say our expectations are higher. But i'd say it's more subtle. We have a hard time accepting that games that don't look particularly good as of today "run like shit".

Because most games OP mentioned were mind blowing when they came out. We don't get this sort of slap in the face anymore.

Like Uncharted 2 that was GotY in 2009 and it actually ran like crap omg. When i played the remaster in 60 fps i thought "right, this is how it was supposed to play all along". But we are console players, so if it's impressive it's alright, we know we can't have everything.

You think it came with the new gens (PS5/SeriesX)? Since everyone has the luxury of 60 FPS it seems we've become even harsher on performance

 

[semiconscious]

i've never supported censorship of any kind. but seeing the expression 'y'all' never fails to make me reconsider my stance...

 

[ungalo]

You think it came with the new gens (PS5/SeriesX)? Since everyone has the luxury of 60 FPS it seems we've become even harsher on performance

I think so far this gen doesn't really have much more to offer than 60 fps.

But i think if most publishers make the choice to return to targeting 30 fps and that the games look genuinely impressive, console gamers will go along with it like they always did.

 

[Elios83]

I partially agree.
I don't like when people act like entitled kids and just because something is not perfect they want to trash it at all costs. OMG I saw a stutter, unplayable!!! OMG DF told me the resolution can drop that low in certain scenes, trash developers!
Fortunately this only comes from vocal minorities online.

But it's also true that we have seen completely unacceptable things like Cyberpunk, Redfall, some recent PC ports and other games where the product is just launched unfinished and here people have all the right to complain.

 

[Danjin44]

Doesn't mean we should not demand for them to be better.

Sure but in every generation we good games and bad games, this is even true movie and music industry.

The problem is some you guys go waaaaaay over board and suddenly claim "entire gaming industry going crash"......why? because "oh no the graphics are not impressive enough".

There is big difference being critical and going all negative nancy, but most people in GAF way pass that jsut hating every new game gets announced.

 

[Iced Arcade]

 

[TexMex]

Yeah but there's a certain generation that expects every game ever made should be the best game they've ever seen, with the best graphics ever known to man; with no glitches or patches needed ever.

No one, in any generation, makes this argument at all.

 

[AGRacing]

So all I see is people moaning about how baddly performing games are nowadays. I just want to remind people that it's always been like this.

Gears 1 on 360 and uncharted 1 on PS3 ran like shit and were janky af on release. The orange box, far cry 3, GTA 4 and 5. Halo 1 on og Xbox. Ocarina of time. Some of the greatest games of all time. And they all ran like shit . But I still enjoyed them as did pretty much everyone!

Games are very complex things and there is no magic wand to make a game run perfect. Especially when a game is trying to push the boundaries of what can be done.

Literally every game I play nowadays looks amazing to me on PS5 and my modest PC . Growing up on the Atari 2600 and ZX Spectrum I really can't believe how far we've come and I just wish people would enjoy what they have now and cut the devs some slack.

If you really think every game is shit you are probably burnt out and should find another hobby lol

2 shoulder shrug emotes on a rant excusing mediocrity. Wait... you weren't the lady in charge of 343 were you?

 

[Thick Thighs Save Lives]

I played and finished Oblivion back when it released at a constant and buttery smooth 15FPS on a crappy PC with nvidia integrated GPU on the motherboard. I think I can handle any and all underperforming current gen games mighty fine. Heck I'm even content with bad performing Switch games lol.

 

[DeepEnigma]

Sure but in every generation we good games and bad games, this is even true movie and music industry.

The problem is some you guys go waaaaaay over board and suddenly claim "entire gaming industry going crash"......why? because "oh no the graphics are not impressive enough".

There is big difference being critical and going all negative nancy, but most people in GAF way pass that jsut hating every new game gets announced.

Don't put me into that camp. It's also very selective as well, I noticed.

 

[Vognerful]

Forgotten

 

[Danjin44]

Don't put me into that camp. It's also very selective as well, I noticed.

I'm mostly speaking generally but you notice we get bunch of threads of how video game industry gonna crash or entire generation went to shit over most pettiest reasons.

Is gaming industry perfect? No, far from it but the negativity I see in GAF is way over the top and hyperbolic.

 

[DeepEnigma]

I'm mostly speaking generally but you notice we get bunch of threads of how video game industry gonna crash or entire generation went to shit over most pettiest reasons.

Is gaming industry perfect? No, far from it but the negativity I see in GAF is way over the top and hyperbolic.

I agree with that. You would think some of those people dislike their hobby so much.

 

[buenoblue]

It's very telling that the people agreeing, or partially agreeing, offer well thought out insights and add to the discussion and most of those that don't agree are just rude and offensive lol. Maybe I've just grown out of gaming websites . I just feel we could all be more positive and celebrate great games more.

 

[Barakov]

Oh, we know. But when games have been coming out and haven't had performance problems, mostly, for a while we as gamers have certain expectations. Especially when you're charging $70 for it. Early access has screwed up a lot of things to be honest.

 

[SeraphJan]

Too bad for them, less game to enjoy

 

[Unknown?]

Games always cost 70 dollars?

No, they used to cost more. Heck Sonic and Knuckles was $70 in 1994 dollars($143 today)! At 2% inflation it only takes 36 years for the value of your currency to halve.

 

[Phase]

No way. Ocarina is one of the worst high profile offenders for frame rate, although it was also one of the best looking games at the time.

 

[German Hops]

 

[BlackTron]

It's awesome that we were able to experience some amazing games within the limitations given, but even back then there were standards. Once you had played OOT at 20FPS, you wouldn't want a game that looks the same to run at 14FPS. You would call BS and want better.

Once upon a time the whole world played Pokemon with a monochrome screen that wasn't even backlit, and had fun. So what? We all know that isn't good enough anymore.

 

[The Alien]

Think more frustration exists as a result of the "release it in shit state now and we'll patch it later" approach that has become the industry standard.

 

[THE DUCK]

I'm pretty happy with exception of switch, the lack of competition in that area has let Nintendo run far too long on very old hardware. Should be fixed soon though.

 

[AeonGaidenRaiden]

Well I still feel games back then never came out in such a complete unfinished state but yes they all had some issues too but mainly they were careful to make it work out fo the gate because back then nobody was downloading a 40GB day one update. One thing that does scrutinize the industry more is just the social media and everyone having a voice and then somebody will shit on a perfectly good 60fps game because it dips down to 55fps from time to time and thats the major talking point instead of story, gameplay , lore, etc.

Look at Diablo 4....game came out great but majority of topics are about cosmetics shop and its prices which by the way you dont even need to buy to enjoy the game. Its literally the same shit COD people buy gun skins for $20. Like who cares, game is getting reviewed great everywhere and here we have a mob only talking about this one small part thats literally a side-menu.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

So all I see is people moaning about how baddly performing games are nowadays. I just want to remind people that it's always been like this.

Gears 1 on 360 and uncharted 1 on PS3 ran like shit and were janky af on release. The orange box, far cry 3, GTA 4 and 5. Halo 1 on og Xbox. Ocarina of time. Some of the greatest games of all time. And they all ran like shit . But I still enjoyed them as did pretty much everyone!

Games are very complex things and there is no magic wand to make a game run perfect. Especially when a game is trying to push the boundaries of what can be done.

Literally every game I play nowadays looks amazing to me on PS5 and my modest PC . Growing up on the Atari 2600 and ZX Spectrum I really can't believe how far we've come and I just wish people would enjoy what they have now and cut the devs some slack.

If you really think every game is shit you are probably burnt out and should find another hobby lol

Go check for early signs of Alzheimer, they weren't this level of broken AI and gameplay. Redfall sets the new bottom of the barrel depth, with Gollum having a fierce competition there.

 

[crackajack]

eg Mario Kart (ie any Mode 7 game) and Starwing/Starfox and Stunt Race FX and Goldeneye and Perfect Dark and original Hitman were all fun back in the day, but any game releasing today that runs like those deserves any ridicule it gets. There is pixel art and retro whatever, but some things can only be enjoyed with a dose of nostalgia and allowance for coming from a former era. Standards fortunately rise with time.

 

[buenoblue]

Go check for early signs of Alzheimer, they weren't this level of broken AI and gameplay. Redfall sets the new bottom of the barrel depth, with Gollum having a fierce competition there.

What about all the thousands of trash games that came out on the Atari 2600, nes, megadrive, PS1, ps2, Wii, 360 et al. The list is endless.

 

[Bo_Hazem]

What about all the thousands of trash games that came out on the Atari 2600, nes, megadrive, PS1, ps2, Wii, 360 et al. The list is endless.

Most of these didn't get any kind of marketing Redfall got. The massive backlash Redfall had because of all the fake hype that it had when it was a complete garbage with one of the worst AI ever since generations of gaming clocking to some early 3D games in the 1990's.

 

[Guilty_AI]

Go check for early signs of Alzheimer, they weren't this level of broken AI and gameplay. Redfall sets the new bottom of the barrel depth, with Gollum having a fierce competition there.

 

[buenoblue]

I'm all for games being called out for being below par like Redfall. Even Arkane and Phill admit that. That's fine. It's more the hating on stuff like Spiderman 2018 for the puddles or Spiderman 2 Graphics. Stuff like Halo infinite which was a great game I thought but every one piled on it. GOW Ragnorok and Forbidden West both Amazing games to me but again there was a lot of hate towards them.

 

[BootsLoader]

I don't really pay attention to frame buffers with milliseconds of frames and bullshit like that. If the game is not crashing or have heavy stutters I don't have a problem with that. I just play the game.
Perfect Dark 64 is a shit show when it comes to framerate, but I could not care less, I enjoyed that game and it is the best FPS ever made. Many other old games have problems with frame rates etc., I don't give a flying fuck. If it plays, its ok by me.

 

[Ps5ProFoSho]

No one, in any generation, makes this argument at all.

Well I won't be arguing with someone that spends most of their life here; so you win

 

[Nydius]

So all I see is people moaning about how baddly performing games are nowadays. I just want to remind people that it's always been like this.

I haven’t forgotten but apparently, unlike you, I expect progress to make things better. You list 15+ year old games. Well excuse me for expecting games to perform better in 2023 than they did in 1997 or 2007.

People dissing Spiderman 2, GOW Ragnorok, Halo Infinite, Hogwarts, Jedi Survivor, the list is endless.

Hogwarts had major stutter and frame drop issues at launch. Jedi Survivor still runs like ass even after multiple updates. Halo Infinite multiplayer was literally broken for months where people couldn‘t play big team battle at all. Spider-Man 2 isn’t even out yet.

Calling out shitty performance in $70 games on $500 consoles isn’t entitlement. The only bad take here is your ”just shut up and accept it, it’s always been this way”.

Ed:

It's very telling that the people agreeing, or partially agreeing, offer well thought out insights and add to the discussion and most of those that don't agree are just rude and offensive lol. Maybe I've just grown out of gaming websites . I just feel we could all be more positive and celebrate great games more.

Here we go. The typical “people who don’t agree with me are rude and everyone who agrees with me is smart” nonsensical bullshit. How very typical. If you want rude, here you go: Your premise and your counter arguments are intellectually bereft, and this post in particular shows you haven’t matured enough to have a real discussion

 

[TexMex]

Well I won't be arguing with someone that spends most of their life here; so you win

Weird deduction here. Good luck.