Square hasn't given up on turn based combat at all...Persona 5 Royal is amazing, has sold tons of copies, and is turn based. I don’t understand why Square has completely given up on it.
Top ten stupidest things I've ever read on GAF.World of Warcraft is not an open-world game.
But you want to see them go the route they did with FFXIII?Thank goodness. I never want to see FF go the route they did with FFXV again.
It seems that Square Enix have relegated the classic design to mostly spin-offs and other IPs cut from the same cloth.Valhalla shows that higher quantity reduces overall quality.
FF could go back to an overworld (map with encounters and obstacles)+ detailed dungeons/towns model and make that work. Honestly, I have missed that aspect of FF since they dropped it back in the PS2 era.
The other problem for me with the switch to action games, apart from Square just being bad at them, is that it kills off having an actual party. I like having full control over all the cool characters RPGs usually have with their various different classes and abilities. In the real time stuff they're basically just drones and don't really matter that much.I think the problem on what he is mentioning about Command Based Gameplay vs Turn Based Combat (and why some people, including me, care about it) was that usually on a Turn Based Combat there was strategy/tactics involved that made you care about "numbers", getting new magic, applying weakness, making your character stronger while also understanding the output. When this games get turned into action games "with RPG elements" usually this just means we are gating your new abilities so that you don't get them all at once, but then usually every number becomes meaningless, might as well just hide them and turn everything into a health bar.
If somehow some team was able to make an action game were all this things mattered again (as well as the fun of over-leveling) I would say I wouldnt care if its TBC or just Action Based.
I loooove how he takes not one dig, but two, at Nomura. So vicious. I mean to achieve the vision of Versus as Nomura wanted it probably would have needed another 5-7 years in the oven.Listing the main aims for the project, Yoshida said: "I want a story of a hero who saves the world, because this is Final Fantasy. I want a summon to go wild and destroy the map. I want to release this game as soon as possible. I cannot release this game in parts.
"When considering these four main points, I believe it is practically impossible to ask for everything. If we had a development period of about 15 years, we may have had the opportunity of challenging ourselves with an open world [smiles]. After all, it's almost impossible in terms of time and cost to create a global story within an open world.
Persona 5 Royal is amazing, has sold tons of copies, and is turn based. I don’t understand why Square has completely given up on it.
I liked FF13 more than most. I'm not sure how it's layout is any different than X, which people like.But you want to see them go the route they did with FFXIII?
So... The only example you have is a procedurally generated indie title? Ok, then I guess you couldn't name what I asked for.
And no, BOTW's or HZD's map couldn't pass for what he's going for. He wants a world with multiple countries and multiple continents like Final Fantasy used to have. They could have said those small patches of land in those games were an entire planet, but that wouldn't make them the a rich world like what he wants to go fo.
Exactly. I’m not sure how so many people in this thread are acting so dim. Yoshida makes it clear that he wants an ACTUAL globe-trotting adventureThe reason Ubisoft can do them in a short period and this would take 15 years is because he's already said Final Fantasy XVI's story will span the world, as opposed to a small region. So if you wanted to make it open-world, it would need to literally be an open WORLD, not just a 30km square or something
You cannot be serious with this. You cannot.You’re really not getting what I’m saying. Even if lore says otherwise, some open world games could represent the whole planet like BOTW if that’s what the writer(s) said it was. It’s not Earth so the argument “but it’s only one land mass!” is irrelevant, not to mention the theory that Earth itself used to have only one massive land mass just further strengthens my point.
Also, fuck, open planet is easy when we’ve already had open-Galaxy:
Xenoblade games are made with nowhere near the visual fidelity of Final Fantasy.The funny thing is a lot of them do. And I'm still wondering where Square got this notion to begin with. It's not like a mainline Final Fantasy title has ever outright flopped just because it was turn based and other big rpg franchises are still doing quite well with turn based combat.
It's the same with their crazy open world comments. They've been bitching about it since the PS3 era but Nintendo manages to pump out 4 Xenoblade games with relative ease despite their own troubles with the HD transition.
I think it's less about open worlds being too difficult and young people not liking turn-based games and more that Square is just painfully incompetent when it comes to Final Fantasy.
XIII and XII were good but nothing amazing like VII or X. XV on the other hand was a total disaster.Like they delivered with XII, XIII, XV, right?
I would have been way, way more forgiving towards it's specific type of open world and the issues that came with it, if the story, scenario, and script writers had showed up to work for more than a month. FFXII, while also having story issues, at least felt complete enough to be satisfying. FFXV's story was stitched together with crayons, gum, elmer's glue, and graph paper and the team/publisher felt like what we were given was good enough to ship. The sadder thing is that people actually defended it and still do to this day.Sure, but it was the crux of its problems. It prioritized the open world over everything else, and everything else massively suffered as a result.
Like they delivered with XII, XIII, XV, right?
Madden.It’s funny, I used to think I was all smart and sophisticated because I played “thinking man” strategic turn-based games like FF VI and Chrono Trigger, while my friends were playing games that actually required some skill and mastery (Castlevania IV, Contra 3, Super Metroid, Madden, etc).
Then how come Ubisoft churns out 2-3 open world games per year?
This was FF6's "world" for instance, which just amounted to 3 islands. You could absolutely do a FF world to Genshin's scale and make it feel massive. Just because Genshin is a mega-continent doesn't mean you couldn't split it into 2-3 sub-continents.
You’re really not getting what I’m saying. Even if lore says otherwise, some open world games could represent the whole planet like BOTW if that’s what the writer(s) said it was. It’s not Earth so the argument “but it’s only one land mass!” is irrelevant, not to mention the theory that Earth itself used to have only one massive land mass just further strengthens my point.
Also, fuck, open planet is easy when we’ve already had open-Galaxy:
Man, it’s almost like some of those open world games, or any games with fields and such, also aren’t meant to be exact scale or something…..
Like, does he think in Ocarina of Time that Kokiri Forest is actually meant to be literally 3 minutes away from Hyrule Castle?
It’s called scaling, seriously. Anyone could have a game‘s entire world, as long as it’s not Earth as we know its scale and layout, be open world and work. Nobody is asking for a realistic scale of a planet. That would mean walking between towns would take actual DAYS of play time. No open world game I’m aware of bothers with that level of realism for obvious reasons.
So really, good job. You just made the developer’s argument even more baffling.
In other words, a change to appeal to a wider audience that never cared about Final Fantasy to begin with, just so you can sell more copies. No fucks given to the franchise's identity.This opinion is only increasing, particularly with younger audiences who do not typically play RPGs.
Was just about to say that. They do however have teams working on those games for years btw, but I regardless, I'm not even sure what exactly Square is saying here and what they mean by 15 years to make lol Make what? What in their minds leads them to believe it takes 15 years to make a open world game? lol So we'd need context in what they are talking about.
If they feel that is what it would take, I question more what the fuck is going on at Square for them to believe that is a timeline for such a thing.
Agreed. I don't know why folks ignore that is in the series. If you put those games in 3D, are you not already getting some open world traveling to places?
thats a very good point.
yes, all of this please. I hate when people hear open world and start automatically assuming wasted space as if that is a default that MUST BE or something. How they fill that world is up to them and even in the older FF titles when you went in an airship, you went around some globe and could go pole to pole or something. So its not suggesting we'd want some 1.1 of Earth, simply a structure that fits that design like what was already done in FF titles in the past
Yep, that's all there is to it.I think it's less about open worlds being too difficult and young people not liking turn-based games and more that Square is just painfully incompetent when it comes to Final Fantasy.
Dude it’s been over 20 years since the last mainline turn-based FF game. Time to move on and begin the healing process.In other words, a change to appeal to a wider audience that never cared about Final Fantasy to begin with, just so you can sell more copies. No fucks given to the franchise's identity.
I've been saying this for so long, but have always been labeled as a "troll".
Guess that makes Yoshida a "troll" now, huh?
To be honest with you, I kinda gave up on Final Fantasy already.Dude it’s been over 20 years since the last mainline turn-based FF game. Time to move on and begin the healing process.
Ubisoft is truly insane. I sat through the credits off an AssCreed once and it goes on forever with studios from Canada, China and Singapore.I know right. I could probably churn out 10 open world games a year as a one man developer. /s