• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
  • Hey Guest. Check out the NeoGAF 2.2 Update Thread for details on our new Giphy integration and other new features.

Opinion Analysis Trailer You Missed the Point of Metal Gear Solid 4

IbizaPocholo

NeoGAFs Kent Brockman
Dec 1, 2014
26,398
27,027
1,335
ibiza

2008's METAL GEAR SOLID 4: GUNS OF THE PATRIOTS was certainly well received upon release, but it's become a bit of a joke on the internet in the decade plus since. Though even the creators of the game have admitted the MGS series was never meant to have such a definitive conclusion, and that the game was initially created due to intense fan pressure (including death threats), could it be there's more to MGS4 than its harshest critics would have you believe?

In this brief yet succinct video, I analyze the one thing people seem to be missing about MGS4: the whole point of its existence. Beyond catering to fan demands for 'one last mission' as Solid Snake, MGS4 remained, I claim, 'loyal to the end' - loyal, to what MGS as a series has always been about: subverting and even challenging player expectations, in a fourth-wall breaking way.
 

Kupfer

Member
Nov 20, 2018
484
634
370
I missed MGS4 completely and wanted to get it off my pile of shame so I bought MG2 and MGS3 for preparation. While 2 was fun, I just can't stand 3 and without 3 completed I don't want to play 4. But I liked 5.
 
  • Triggered
Reactions: M1chl and Kev Kev

LarknThe4th

Member
May 19, 2020
1,241
1,204
465
Is this your video? I’ll watch it but I have to plug Steak’s amazing MGS4 video as well

That's my favourite youtube video, its oddly meaningful and carefree at the same time

Also Steak Bentley is bang on about the versatility of Solid Snakes character, it's legit shocking that a guy like Kojima could make such a well rounded protagonist
 
  • Strength
Reactions: ExpandKong

A.Romero

Member
Feb 23, 2009
3,297
2,050
1,250
Mexico
www.lavejota.com
I missed MGS4 completely and wanted to get it off my pile of shame so I bought MG2 and MGS3 for preparation. While 2 was fun, I just can't stand 3 and without 3 completed I don't want to play 4. But I liked 5.
4 is more of a sequel to 2 than 3 story wise but no reason to miss out on a master piece. If you don't like 3 most likely you won't like 4 in the game play department.


MGS4 is a great game, in my opinion. It's exactly what MGS fans want because it's a mix of the best parts of the prequels. Follow up to the visionary story of 2 and upgraded gameplay of 3.

Great game play, wacky story, feels and a shitload of fanservice. What else could any MGS fan want?
 

Tschumi

Banned
Jul 4, 2020
2,559
2,968
590
Japan
Look.. the more i read about this stuff, the more i start to get turned off the series. It's like everything was done in spite of us, and that half the games didn't mean shit to Kojima.. makes me think MGS 5 ended exactly as he wanted it to end, just to teach us a fucking lesson for being so presumptive as to expect a decent fucking game for a 5th installment.

I think there's a real chance that, death stranding 2, or whatever games come next.. one of them is going to be a total piece of self satisfied crud.. death stranding with one fiftieth the engagement..

He's like the embodiment of tool's song "Hooker with a Penis" - "I sold my soul to make a record dipshit and
You
Bought
One"

Pretty cool sentiment for Tool, but really insulting from a video game creator. (Just my internal logic there)
 
Last edited:
  • Triggered
Reactions: MiyazakiHatesKojima

bender

Bending Rodríguez (22, 1,729)
Apr 12, 2010
9,067
13,147
1,420
I did? Well...

 

NinjaBoiX

Member
Aug 2, 2009
26,143
703
1,195
Manchester, UK
Absolutely garbage game, I hated it.

I couldn’t be bothered with the cut scenes and skipped every one, so the gameplay often devolved into “play for a minute or two, skip a cut scene, walk along a corridor, skip a cut scene....”

The gun play was actually surprisingly tight but the bland environments, restrictive controls and clunky animations made it a chore to play. A shockingly bad video game stitched together with long tedious cut scenes.

I liked the music.

3/10
 

LarknThe4th

Member
May 19, 2020
1,241
1,204
465
Absolutely garbage game, I hated it.

I couldn’t be bothered with the cut scenes and skipped every one, so the gameplay often devolved into “play for a minute or two, skip a cut scene, walk along a corridor, skip a cut scene....”

The gun play was actually surprisingly tight but the bland environments, restrictive controls and clunky animations made it a chore to play. A shockingly bad video game stitched together with long tedious cut scenes.

I liked the music.

3/10
Its shocking that's it's made by the same team that about three years prior gave us MGS 3, literally one of the best videogames ever
 

Soodanim

Member
Feb 24, 2012
7,162
2,458
1,005
United Kingdom
Watched a couple minutes as I don’t have time for all of it yet.

What flags up for me about this sort of analysis is when people start saying things are metaphors. It goes back to the classic school thing of teachers telling you X, Y, and Z are metaphors for this and that but the author didn’t mean that at all.

Having said that, it’s easier to buy into this particular metaphor given the history of MGS and Kojima not wanting to make sequels but being pressured and sent death threats.
 

Soodanim

Member
Feb 24, 2012
7,162
2,458
1,005
United Kingdom
Watched the whole thing. There are some interesting observations and/of themes, but it becomes a bit of a stretch when he’s talking about FPS and then Foxdie.
 

Synless

Member
May 13, 2007
11,404
532
1,330
Michigan
As someone who got a platinum in that game I will say this. Great game but chapter 3 in its entirety is absolute fucking trash. That alone makes the game less superior than its former games.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dacon and A.Romero

sephiroth7x

Member
Jun 27, 2013
652
90
490
England
I love Metal Gear. I have played and finished the entire main series (Including the MSX versions and before I knew any different, even Snakes Revenge on the NES) but even as a fan of the series, MGS4 was awful from a story point of view.

As someone above has rightly pointed out, the mechanics were tight but they never let us use them.
 

zombrex

Member
Mar 8, 2018
317
447
340
I remember mgs4 online having something similar to a battle royale mode, with a circle getting smaller and finishing in a random place. Seemed ahead of its time there.

This mode was called "Stealth Death match."
Everyone gets the stealth camo, which lets you become invisible in shadows as long as you don't pull out your gun or knife or be very difficult to see otherwise. And getting damaged would temporary turn off your camo.

Then it's a game of attrition as the circle gets smaller and smaller and players get taken out one by one. Absolutely amazing game mode with a lot of different tactics.
So intense and yet so much fun. Was indeed ahead of its time.
 
Last edited:

Calverz

Member
Apr 27, 2014
1,561
2,753
650
Real talk:
The game is a glorified michael bay/john woo film and the only reason it garnered hype/praise back in the day was because sony fans needed something to cling to as the ps3 was being decimated by the xbox 360.
I played and enjoyed the game for what it was but have zero desire to ever play it again. Better off watching complilations of all the cutscenes on youtube.
 

RPSleon

Member
Apr 3, 2015
360
472
595
This mode was called "Stealth Death match."
Everyone gets the stealth camo, which lets you become invisible in shadows as long as you don't pull out your gun or knife or be very difficult to see otherwise. And getting damaged would temporary turn off your camo.

Then it's a game of attrition of the circle gets smaller and smaller and players get taken out one by one. Absolutely amazing game mode with a lot of different tactics.
So intense and yet so much fun. Was indeed ahead of its time.
Thanks for the reminder of the details there. I forgot about the stealth camo aspect. Really made it exciting. I definitely had alot of fun with it and remember wishing more games would be this creative with online modes.

Id be interested if its just chance, or there was some influence on the current br trend.
 

Porcile

Member
Oct 23, 2012
5,172
1,280
770
The story is the thing about this game that I have the least issues. The reality is after Act 1 and 2 it`s really not a good game at all. Act 3, 4 and 5 are quite frankly, simply awful and awful for completely different reasons.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Dacon

Kev Kev

Gold Member
Oct 25, 2012
3,656
6,742
1,050
Loved mgs4

It was an emotional conclusion to a ~15 year long story that I started when I was a kid. I think if I went back and played them now for the first time, I’d find them a little cringe. But the child in me was too invested and wrapped up in the Kojima insanity. The way they finished up the story in 4 was a 10/10 for me. From Raiden and his family, to Campbell and Meryl, Sunny and Otacon, and of course Snake, Big Boss, Eva, Ocelot and Zero... I loved every minute of it. wasn’t perfect by any means but it was one hell of a ride.

phantom pain had great story bits as well, but it wasn’t finished or fleshed out properly. The whole story with Paz had me feeling very emotional though. She may be my favorite character in all of metal gear.

hate on it if you want, but Kojima is one hell of an insane story teller, and I think we won’t be seeing anything else like mgs’s wild 15 year long saga in video games for a very long time, if ever.
 
Last edited:

deriks

4-Time GIF/Meme God
Dec 21, 2013
4,827
3,563
1,060
Recife, Brasil
I liked a lot, but was basically the first step downhill. I mean, you can watch a gameplay of anyone playing MGS 1, 2 or 3 and they will do all kinds of stunts to finish the level. Watch a gameplay of MGS 4 and he will do a lot of headshots to finish the level

Portable Ops went kinda boring. Peace Walker was ok. MGS V was released before the alpha stage...
 

Dr_Salt

Member
Apr 28, 2020
424
621
315
Look.. the more i read about this stuff, the more i start to get turned off the series. It's like everything was done in spite of us, and that half the games didn't mean shit to Kojima.. makes me think MGS 5 ended exactly as he wanted it to end, just to teach us a fucking lesson for being so presumptive as to expect a decent fucking game for a 5th installment.

I think there's a real chance that, death stranding 2, or whatever games come next.. one of them is going to be a total piece of self satisfied crud.. death stranding with one fiftieth the engagement..

He's like the embodiment of tool's song "Hooker with a Penis" - "I sold my soul to make a record dipshit and
You
Bought
One"

Pretty cool sentiment for Tool, but really insulting from a video game creator. (Just my internal logic there)

You understand he didn't wanted to work on any MGS game after MGS2 right?
 

Aion002

Member
Nov 21, 2019
2,209
4,295
545
SP - BR
One of the best games ever.

Great SP and AMAZING MP.


Anyone can hate all they want over the story and cut scenes, but the gameplay and "stages" are top notch, if someone disagree with it...

Well, they just don't get it or are Fortnite players.


Kojima is weird... But it is also a genius. Deal with it.
 
Last edited:

Kerotan

Member
Oct 31, 2018
1,911
2,523
455
As someone who got a platinum in that game I will say this. Great game but chapter 3 in its entirety is absolute fucking trash. That alone makes the game less superior than its former games.
Fair fucking play for platinuming it. It's the only one I've yet to play excluding the portable games.
Real talk:
The game is a glorified michael bay/john woo film and the only reason it garnered hype/praise back in the day was because sony fans needed something to cling to as the ps3 was being decimated by the xbox 360.
I played and enjoyed the game for what it was but have zero desire to ever play it again. Better off watching complilations of all the cutscenes on youtube.
By decimated you mean the ps3 selling more on an annual basis? I understand the 360 had a headstart but I wasn't decimating anything. It made incredible strides as playstation regressed but let's not rewrite history here.

Yes being a big ps3 exclusive garnered additional hype but most of it came from the potential to answer some of the bat shit crazy questions MGS2 asked. I'd been waiting years for that.
 
Last edited:

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
38,879
37,604
1,310
38
Brazil
Masterpiece.
One of the very best games ever created.

Loved every second.

If you do a GOTY thread again the. MGS4 will win again for the 4th time... that shows has amazing it is.
 
Last edited:

Clear

Deer/Dur
Feb 2, 2009
12,368
7,129
1,365
Its funny looking back how the game's size (data-wise) was so problematic it required installations between chapters at launch, a thing that clearly impacted Kojima's ability to do more than just tell a linear story. i.e theater modes, boss rushes, etc.

Its the sort of game that a current gen remaster could improve massively.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Nymphae

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
38,879
37,604
1,310
38
Brazil
Its funny looking back how the game's size (data-wise) was so problematic it required installations between chapters at launch, a thing that clearly impacted Kojima's ability to do more than just tell a linear story. i.e theater modes, boss rushes, etc.

Its the sort of game that a current gen remaster could improve massively.
You could install all the data at start already.
 

M1chl

Currently Gif and Meme Champion
Dec 25, 2019
9,441
17,042
935
Prague, Czech Republic
I missed MGS4 completely and wanted to get it off my pile of shame so I bought MG2 and MGS3 for preparation. While 2 was fun, I just can't stand 3 and without 3 completed I don't want to play 4. But I liked 5.
Based on this, MGS is really not for you. 2 and 3 are legendary games, easily on the top of "hall of fame"... And I played those during X360 era...
 

Calverz

Member
Apr 27, 2014
1,561
2,753
650
Fair fucking play for platinuming it. It's the only one I've yet to play excluding the portable games.

By decimated you mean the ps3 selling more on an annual basis? I understand the 360 had a headstart but I wasn't decimating anything. It made incredible strides as playstation regressed but let's not rewrite history here.

Yes being a big ps3 exclusive garnered additional hype but most of it came from the potential to answer some of the bat shit crazy questions MGS2 asked. I'd been waiting years for that.
Sony had an existing install base of around 130million.
Xbox had an install base of 24million.
By end of generation both had sold around 84 million 360’s and ps3.
Therefore microsoft saw a growth of +360%.
Whereas sony experienced a shrink of -36%.

Thats decimation in my eyes.
 
  • Like
Reactions: A.Romero

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
38,879
37,604
1,310
38
Brazil
Not at launch you couldn't. It was patched in 2012, 4 years after initial release.
Weird I played it way before that... 2009 I believe.
 

ethomaz

is mad because DF didn't do a video on a video of a video of a video on PS5
Mar 19, 2013
38,879
37,604
1,310
38
Brazil
Look it up, it didn't even have Trophy support prior to the budget reissue!
Yeap... I did not played it when it had trophies.
Anyway I never have issue with the installation to be fair... except for the initial I don't remember happening between chapters.

Maybe it was too longer ago.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: KOMANI

regawdless

Gold Member
Sep 21, 2020
2,593
6,593
555
Loved the first three games. But MGS 4 was just... Too much. Those horrible cutscenes, horrible dialogue... First MGS game that I didn't finish.
 

Hydelol

Neo Member
May 31, 2020
48
60
120
What is wrong with people on this board thinking MGS4 is good? It's completely raping the entire story of MGS1 and MGS2.
 

Hydelol

Neo Member
May 31, 2020
48
60
120
Best codec call was Snake saying the Colonel was Raiden's commanding officer LUL