Yu Suzuki and DS scammed STEAM Shenmue 3 KS backers by giving them a different version of software.

SonGoku

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That only further proves my point, they never even promised it would come to Windows, just PC in general. Steam is nowhere to be found in the campaign. People pledged to get the game on PC. They are receiving the game on PC.
So answer me this:
If the game switched to SteamOS exclusive because Valve money hatted them, would you be ok with it?
 

Senhua

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And yu skipped the Xbox version for what? Just for mess?
I'm more suspected it's because of Sony deal (again) but maybe from Yu-san himself is not out of possibility. This is the first release of YS Net this gen so we don't know how they usually do multiplatform games.
Not like SE, Capcom, SEGA, KOEI and From Software who already have a history to do multiplatform unless there some deal under the scene (like Bloodborne, NiOh, FF VII, New Sakura wars, NieR A & MHW in Asia/Japan region )
 
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Panajev2001a

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Yeah, feck to those who supported the KS to help the game creation and not receiving what they had paid for.

The state of YS fanboy in this forum
Ok, so you paid to have it on Steam andnot on EGS? (You knew it was Windows 10 and not Linux for sure)
Really?
 

SonGoku

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Regardless of what anyone thinks of Epic and Steam, it's the fact that that they changed the product means people are should be granted a refund if they ask for it.
Exactly and its not like it will cost them dearly, just use some money from that big fat epic check
Only a minority of pc backers will ask for a refund anyways, dont be greedy assholes
 
May 26, 2014
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So answer me this:
If the game switched to SteamOS exclusive because Valve money hatted them, would you be ok with it?
Yes, I would, because my pledge was to Yu's vision of Shenmue III and helping to make it happen. If he shifted development away from the PC to SteamOS, it's not anything I have control over. I didn't commission the man to make a game to my specifications on the platform I chose. I simply backed him. My satisfaction was never a guarantee. If it was, then Mighty No. 9 would have been an amazing product. These are the pitfalls of investing in an idea, a concept, a dream, a vision. If you want guarantees of satisfaction, do not fork over your money until there is a finished product you can see meets all of your standards as a worthwhile investment. Avoid venture capitalism. Avoid crowdfunding. Otherwise you will be disappointed time and time again.
 
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20cent

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Will we get the opportunity to pick which version of the game we want before shipping?
I remember picking the PC version, but I've switched my gaming to PS4 long time ago....
 

McCheese

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OP, thanks for the very very late post as this needs more attention.

As a someone who purchased my Saturn just for this, I'm livid they moved it to the Dreamcast and are not even releasing the Saturn version anymore.

Oh well, at least the Dreamcast will have the entire series on it I guess
 

SonGoku

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PC being used as synonymous for Windows 10 and vice versa is slightly less of a stretch than PC and Steam OS... let’s not be disingenuous here, no need :).
Just applying the same logic, common now Linux can be a PC too, just switch steamos with linux
and if you really wanna go down that rabbit hole, back when its KS opened steam was ubiquitous with pc gaming to the point it was in the system requirements and everyone assumed they would get the game on steam.
Yes, I would, because my pledge was to Yu's vision of Shenmue III and helping to make it happen. If he shifted development away from the PC to SteamOS, it's not anything I have control over. I didn't commission the man to make a game to my specifications on the platform I chose. I simply backed him. My satisfaction was never a guarantee. If it was, then Mighty No. 9 would have been an amazing product. These are the pitfalls of investing in an idea, a concept, a dream, a vision. If you want guarantees of satisfaction, do not fork over your money until there is a finished product you can see meets all of your standards as a worthwhile investment. Avoid venture capitalism. Avoid crowdfunding. Otherwise you will be disappointed time and time again.
The problem i have with it is the switch was done because of a moneyhat, and they are too greedy to offer a refund to the minority that asks for one
Realistically how much would they really lose 10k, 20k? Im sure epics money hat can more than cover it
 
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May 26, 2014
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The problem i have with it is the switch was done because of a moneyhat, and they are too greedy to offer a refund to the minority that asks for one
Realistically how much would they really lose 10k, 20k? Im sure epics money hat can more than cover it
The problem I have is people not understanding all the inherent risks that come with crowdfunding and then acting like they are somehow entitled to a refund because the finished product might not be everything they hoped for. This is insanely egregious to me when we're not even arguing over a platform but a digital storefront and launcher. You want your money back because Deep Silver made a deal with Epic that is very much in their financial interests instead of kowtowing to Valve's gouging of publishers. Yu and Deep Silver asked for money without ever promising to release the game on Steam. An incorrect assumption was made and now you want the House to cover your losses.

The very fact that Steam was never promised on the Kickstarter shows that it was known even back then no PC storefronts had been set in stone. I'll accept the notion that Steam was obviously a distribution choice made after the KS campaign based on the original backer surveys offering it as a delivery option. But then that changed. The campaign took money without ever promising a specific storefront version. Given how volatile the PC market is becoming and how Epic is constantly offering publishers significantly more favorable terms to go with them and cut Valve out, I imagine this trend will continue until Epic runs out of money or Valve starts offering publishers more favorable terms.

The lesson here is to be far more careful when pledging your money to pigs in a poke. Read the fine print. Do not make assumptions. Remember that what is targeted is not necessarily what you will receive and that you will in all likelihood have little to no recourse if you are not satisfied. Ask yourself if you're willing to take on the risks that come with crowdfunding. Or should you wait until there's a finished product so you can see if it's something you really want?
 

Enjay

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If I had a nickel for every time a game developer scammed people on kickstarter I'd be able to develop my own game.

(Unity)
 
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Jenenser

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TIL you guys are bad at comparisions/analogys...

if you wanna do it with ordering pizza, a more apt analogy is this:

when you bought it, you get free condiments, like chilli or garlic if you want. (at the pizzaplace you trust and know)

now another company sends the same pizza, but without the garlic and chilli you expected and the pizza tastes like bland shit. The Box is covered in stains and the deliveryboy dropped the box on the floor.

Some of you guys here are going the route of " there is still pizza inside, so dont complain!"

and yes, i like garlic. it was the main reason i ordered there in the first place.
so fuck off. :)
 

nush

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TIL you guys are bad at comparisions/analogys...

if you wanna do it with ordering pizza, a more apt analogy is this:

when you bought it, you get free condiments, like chilli or garlic if you want. (at the pizzaplace you trust and know)

now another company sends the same pizza, but without the garlic and chilli you expected and the pizza tastes like bland shit. The Box is covered in stains and the deliveryboy dropped the box on the floor.

Some of you guys here are going the route of " there is still pizza inside, so dont complain!"

and yes, i like garlic. it was the main reason i ordered there in the first place.
so fuck off. :)
Its like ordering a pizza and complaining the delivery driver was Asian and not white.
 

M0G

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I can't remember where Steam was implied but it was because so many of us were expecting it. There is a pic in circulation from the platform survey that may be the source of it. I backed for a physical copy and I kinda expected an actual physical copy of the game that didn't use online activation. Not that I'd given it much thought before today and that probably sums up how long we've been waiting for the game to be released.

They come along with all this "We're so excited to announce" bullshit and they damn well know the paying customer is going to be fucking pissed. Their opening should have been an apology because it's so well known at this point a lot of people don't want to adopt their shitty store. Backer copies of a kickstarted game should have been off-limits.

If Steam was a major factor in decreasing PC game piracy... I'm starting to worry that Epic Store will end up being the opposite.
 

nikolino840

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For example in tides of numanera was reached the goal of italian subs...but they changed and deleted the translation...Is worse then a f.. digital store
 
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Jenenser

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Its like ordering a pizza and complaining the delivery driver was Asian and not white.
not really, the content and delivery didnt change in your comparision. another bad one. if you dont care for garlic, its cool. but i do.
 
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Gamers acting like this is some human rights violation. LOL gimme a break. "Victims" :D You can't be serious. It boggles my mind that you would back a game on Kickstarter, implying that it was important to you that this game be made, implying that you really really wanted to play it, only to then boycott the game and want a refund just because you need to download a different launcher for your Windows PC. Not a different operating system mind you, just a different launcher. This is clearly not a scam. The entitlement of some people just boggles my mind.
 

bltn

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This is how it looks like if you go and select which copy you want from the KS.



I know this because I switched to PS4 this morning to avoid the EGS. But don't give me that "they never promised Steam" bullshit. I would go for a refund if it was available 100%.
 
May 26, 2014
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This is how it looks like if you go and select which copy you want from the KS.



I know this because I switched to PS4 this morning to avoid the EGS. But don't give me that "they never promised Steam" bullshit. I would go for a refund if it was available 100%.
That screenshot is not from Kickstarter. It is from Fangamer. Nowhere during the Kickstarter campaign was Steam ever promised. You are intentionally misrepresenting the situation.
 

M0G

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This is how it looks like if you go and select which copy you want from the KS.



I know this because I switched to PS4 this morning to avoid the EGS. But don't give me that "they never promised Steam" bullshit. I would go for a refund if it was available 100%.
Thanks for this, I've just been and changed mine to PS4 too. Can confirm the physical survey says exactly the same thing with it being a "Steam Physical Copy". However, they have it sewn up with the requirements subject to change bit. Business decision or not when EGS is so unpopular they know it's a slap in the face to a lot of backers so it would be nice if they didn't try and pretend otherwise.
 
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Skyr

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This is how it looks like if you go and select which copy you want from the KS.



I know this because I switched to PS4 this morning to avoid the EGS. But don't give me that "they never promised Steam" bullshit. I would go for a refund if it was available 100%.
Where exactly can I find this option?

Edit: nevermind found it. Changed it to PS4.
 
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Jenenser

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Why in the fuck you need condiments on Pizza in America? What is wrong with you people
you never had garlic or chilli on your pizza? what is wrong with you? and no, im not american =)))
they would put ranchdressing on there, as far as i know. :p
 
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Jenenser

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Gamers acting like this is some human rights violation. LOL gimme a break. "Victims" :D You can't be serious. It boggles my mind that you would back a game on Kickstarter, implying that it was important to you that this game be made, implying that you really really wanted to play it, only to then boycott the game and want a refund just because you need to download a different launcher for your Windows PC. Not a different operating system mind you, just a different launcher. This is clearly not a scam. The entitlement of some people just boggles my mind.
games for windows life was just another launcher. its not entitlement to be against anti consumer tactics, so quit that bullshit.

gnarf, sry for DP. :S
 
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Endless Fluff

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That screenshot is not from Kickstarter. It is from Fangamer. Nowhere during the Kickstarter campaign was Steam ever promised. You are intentionally misrepresenting the situation.
They did a survey last June where they asked the backers what version they want, that survey was done via Fangamer. That happened during the campaign, which is ongoing until the product is shipped.
The survey included other questions and depending on your tier, they asked you to sent in your picture for the "Harbor Lounge".

-Name
-Shipping Address
- Version of the game you want (Physical Steam Disc - Kickstarter Exclusive Case, Physical Playstation 4 Disc - Kickstarter Exclusive Case, Steam Digital Download, Playstation Digital Download)
- Name to appear on Shenmue 3 Homepage
- Name to appear in the game credits
- T-Shirt Size
- Your name for the Choubu Inn Guestbook
- Your 140 character message for the Choubu Inn Guestbook
- Your name for the Special Sponsor section (if applicable)
- Your picture for the Harbour Lounge Waiting Area. Height = 1280x768
- an upload of your autograph to accompany the photo
Source
 
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woigemok

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I hope those victims are getting back their money. It's sad to see those hardcore fans are being treated like that because of YS and DS greed.
 

theclaw135

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It may be minor in the "crime" sense, but it's indefensible. I don't think anyone should be trying to argue that what they did is justified or should be legal.
 

ThePiddle

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If you're a fan of Shenmue and only wanted this game to exist, then this is neither surprising nor should it be overly upsetting. We are lucky this game even exists, and the chances of it turning a profit are probably not the greatest. Yu Suzuki and team are wisely getting the extra funding from every possible source (Sony for marketing, Epic Games Store for... whatever they give).

I thought we were getting a DRM free version too though, that better still be happening...
 
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Dontero

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Did people pay for Shenmue 3 or they paid for Shenmue 3 Steam version ?
Yeah i see no reason for refunds, people will have to live with starting game with different icon.

That is like 1st world problem right here.
 

Despera

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Did people pay for Shenmue 3 or they paid for Shenmue 3 Steam version ?
Yeah i see no reason for refunds, people will have to live with starting game with different icon.

That is like 1st world problem right here.
The least they could offer is a refund since it still counts as a platform switch. Yes, people have paid for a specific platform.

This move is extremely out of touch especially considering the current gaming climate. Has nothing to do with 1st world or 99th world or whatever, it's basic PR.
 
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They promised a steam release. That was part of the nature of the product on offer. They can't just change that aspect and expect people to accept it. Refunds are definitely in order here.

I see there's a bunch of people in this thread that disagree simply because they think backers are overreacting and whining. The subject of epic games store is already a touchy one, so that only adds to it. I think customers have the right to get what they paid for, and the publisher suddenly changing the platform it is released on because they like money is pretty gross.
 

Fushitsusha

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If you feel scammed and offended by having to download a software, then maybe you should not do this stuff to begin with, if you can't adapt to a very small issue? You know what you sign up for when you pledge/donate years in advance. Thinking you have rights and can demand things is hilarious. You are at the mercy of the developer in this case, and I can promise you they're not doing this to be a dick, it's often more complicated than that.

Forget the games.
 
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strange headache

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I frikkin' called it yesterday during the conference.

Deep Silver seems to have learnt nothing from the Metro: Exodus debacle. I was looking forward to playing this, since I loved Shenmue on Dreamcast, but I refuse to give Epic any money.



The apologists complaining that people are displeased about this, despite the game being announced on Steam for a while now, need to finally get it into their thickheaded skulls that this isn't merely about adding another game store. It's about being a conscious consumer. If you deliberately chose to be ignorant about consumer rights, that's fine, but don't belittle others for doing so.
 

woigemok

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If you feel scammed and offended by having to download a software, then maybe you should not do this stuff to begin with, if you can't adapt to a very small issue? You know what you sign up for when you pledge/donate years in advance. Thinking you have rights and can demand things is hilarious.

Forget the games.
We're not living in a pre-historic era dude :messenger_tears_of_joy::messenger_tears_of_joy:
 

Jenenser

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Wasn't Epic's entire thing being "pro consumer" with the EGS? From what I can tell they literally have not done a single thing that benefits consumers since this shit went down, in fact they've done just the opposite by money-hatting games off of other platforms.

Imagine defending these idiots.
to be fair, they arguments were pro developer because of the cut and claimed it would "trickle down" to the consumer.
so everyone with a brain knows its bs. monopolizing games so you can dictate the price and strongarm your way into the industry is all it is.

A platform that they made up in their mind.
do you play on pc and what was your opinion of games for windows life?
 
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Lastyou1

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I backed the Ps4 version, however I feel sorry for all the steam backers.

Also, good luck with DRMs
 
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I could some what understand if it was promised that those that pledged will receive the Steam version of the game. If it's mentioned in the small prints that it's subject to change then I suppose is somewhat of the consumers fault for not reading the small print.. IF there was one. I never visited the campaign page for it so I am not fully aware. Just my 2 pence on this.

Edit: I search through the page with use of ctrl+f with "steam" included. Could not see any mention of this apart from "digital or physical PC version". Was this confirmed in the past previously?

Edit 2: Never mind. Saw confirmation that it will be Steam for the PC version. That's lame to those that backed the PC version.
 
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nikolino840

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They promised a steam release. That was part of the nature of the product on offer. They can't just change that aspect and expect people to accept it. Refunds are definitely in order here.

I see there's a bunch of people in this thread that disagree simply because they think backers are overreacting and whining. The subject of epic games store is already a touchy one, so that only adds to it. I think customers have the right to get what they paid for, and the publisher suddenly changing the platform it is released on because they like money is pretty gross.
You have written prove of the "promise" ? Legal stuff are Always written,unless yu Is a Yakuza man
 
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Dontero

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The least they could offer is a refund since it still counts as a platform switch. Yes, people have paid for a specific platform.

This move is extremely out of touch especially considering the current gaming climate. Has nothing to do with 1st world or 99th world or whatever, it's basic PR.
And that platform is PC and still is PC. Steam is just shop.
And yes it is 1st world problem when all it takes you to play game is to launch game via different launcher than steam.
 
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And that platform is PC and still is PC. Steam is just shop.
And yes it is 1st world problem when all it takes you to play game is to launch game via different launcher than steam.
Your ignorance and stupidity knows no bounds

Fuck off woth your disengenious arguments. 1st world problems who cares stop whing waaaaaaaaaaah why eont you listen to me
 

clem84

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I agree with the Pizza delivery guy, or Pizza box analogy. The product being delivered is the same. Only the method of delivery differs so it should be a non-issue. Unless, and this is really at the heart of the matter, the delivery method differs so greatly that it actually changes the experience. So those of you in the refund camp, please tell me what makes EGS so horrible compared to Steam.
 
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