Yu Suzuki and DS scammed STEAM Shenmue 3 KS backers by giving them a different version of software.

Blancka

Member
May 20, 2019
301
202
245
No thanks, not gonna go through this song & dance again with people who dont have a single clue about how the pc market works.

Third party retailers destroying steam.. lulz you are a funny guy
You're all over this thread replying to everyone with an equivalent of "YOU KNOW NOTHING" and "I UNDERSTAND THIS BETTER THAN YOU SO SHUT UP" yet you refuse to make a single logical point. Methinks if you had genuine logic behind your thinking you'd be willing to share it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Proteus Maximus
Mar 19, 2015
1,209
1,049
575
Yeah as if im not tired of making the same arguments over and over. Egs fanboys wont listen and lack criticak thinking
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: CyRuZ

Shifty

Member
Sep 25, 2015
7,351
5,949
685
the planet Thra
You're all over this thread replying to everyone with an equivalent of "YOU KNOW NOTHING" and "I UNDERSTAND THIS BETTER THAN YOU SO SHUT UP" yet you refuse to make a single logical point. Methinks if you had genuine logic behind your thinking you'd be willing to share it.
The EGS / Steam discussion has been raging long enough at this point that the people with cogent arguments against Epic are fucking tired of uninformed people continually falling back on "just another icon tho lol" shitposting rather than actually attempting to engage in a discussion.

So no, you're not owed a logically-presented argument if you don't bring the open mind to hear it in the first place.

There are however two pages' worth of past threads on the subject to skim through and familiarize with if you're actually looking to approach the conversation in good faith:
 
Last edited:

Blancka

Member
May 20, 2019
301
202
245
Yeah as if im not tired of making the same arguments over and over. Egs fanboys wont listen and lack criticak thinking
Then stay out of the discussion. Either add something of value if you have it or don't bother posting. Screaming "I KNOW BETTER THAN YOU YOU'RE WRONG THAT'S MY PURSE I DON'T KNOW YOU" isn't going to change anyone's mind and you're only wasting your own time as well as taking away your own credibility for anyone that sees you in another thread and remebers how you're acting (not hard given your quite unique username and avatar).

I'm more than open-minded on this, but the way I see it is that kickstarter has no promises. As such I get people being pissed to a degree, but anyone asking for refunds etc should have known from day 1 they were SoL refund-wise regardless of outcome once they donated to the game. EGS lacks some features, but once you actually launch Shenmue III the in-game experience will be literally exactly the same, so I do believe people are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Had the whole "EGS IS SPYING ON YOU" thing not been debunked months ago, I'd argue there was some merit to resistance, but at this point it's simply a minor inconvenience.

That said, I do think it's quite abhorrent of the devs/pubs to do this Specifically because it's a crowd-funded game. As silly as I think EGS rage is, it's not exactly something you miss if you have any interest in games, and the publisher would have been fully aware that people would be unhappy about this. Legally they haven't done anything wrong, but morally, I do find it very disrespectful considering the game only exists because of fans willing to finance someone's passion project, and as such, more respect should have been given to the fanbase.
 

PaNaMa

Member
Jul 20, 2007
993
80
990
Newfoundland
If you are a dev, and Steam is going to take 30% of your money and EGS is only going to take 12%, and you can select either method to deliver the promised "Windows version" of your game to your customers, I mean it's a pretty simple choice. I prefer Steam too, for all my windows gaming, but I don't blame them for their choice.
 

Blancka

Member
May 20, 2019
301
202
245
If you think it's not a big deal because it is just another launcher you don't understand the core argument against the store in general.
The core argument is flawed though. Has the competition between PS and Xbox destroyed console gaming through paying for exclusives? Nope, it's led to a ton more, higher quality AAA games. Honestly I'm dying for an Xbox VR kit to get announced so that sony ups their game on first party PSVR.

People call it anti-consumer, but literally every consumerism study will tell you that competition benefits consumers. You may not agree with how epic is going about this, but other services have tried the "build it and let them come" tactic and none have come close to steam even doing things like removing all DRM (GoG).

People often lambaste publishers for being shortsighted and driven by profit here and now, but at this point, Epic is doing something that could be of massive benefit in a few years time if they are successful.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Aug 20, 2015
9,768
571
470
I'm more than open-minded on this, but the way I see it is that kickstarter has no promises. As such I get people being pissed to a degree, but anyone asking for refunds etc should have known from day 1 they were SoL refund-wise regardless of outcome once they donated to the game. EGS lacks some features, but once you actually launch Shenmue III the in-game experience will be literally exactly the same, so I do believe people are making a mountain out of a molehill here. Had the whole "EGS IS SPYING ON YOU" thing not been debunked months ago, I'd argue there was some merit to resistance, but at this point it's simply a minor inconvenience.
Nobody really gives a fuck about what you personally think about the difference between a steam key and an egs key are though.
If you weren't a backer, you have zero fucking say in what the people who were want or expect for their money, or their right to be upset at being promised one thing and then given another.

Other games that have done this switcharoo have both honoured refunds to the people upset at being missold a product that is no longer to the specifications they agreed to when purchasing, and have tried to sweeten the deal to avoid those people taking that refund, by offering things like a free extra egs key, a free extra steam key down the line, upgrades to a more premium edition, etc.

DS saying "lol, we have your money, fuck you manbaby" deserve to get shit for doing that. They've broken their contract.
 
  • Thoughtful
Reactions: Kadayi

ethomaz

Member
Mar 19, 2013
24,480
3,659
800
37
Brazil
If you are a dev, and Steam is going to take 30% of your money and EGS is only going to take 12%, and you can select either method to deliver the promised "Windows version" of your game to your customers, I mean it's a pretty simple choice. I prefer Steam too, for all my windows gaming, but I don't blame them for their choice.
You don't pay Unreal Engine royalties to Epic if you use EGS too.
So going Steam is 30% + UE royalties while EGS is fixed 12%.

People will hate but EGS have clear advantages to devs over Steam... it is not just moneyhat.
 

Kazza

Member
Oct 6, 2018
1,791
2,805
560
Post from Deep Silver on the Shenmue 3 Steam community hub:

Shenmue 3 Polite Discussion Reminder
Dear Shenmue Fans,

We see your concerns regarding the latest announcements; your feedback and comments are being taken into consideration.

Having said that, please remember to criticise ideas, not people. Avoid name-calling, ad hominem attacks, responding to a post’s tone instead of its actual content.

As a final note: remember that piracy is illegal and we do not tolerate any mention of such actions on these forums.

Thank you.
 
  • LOL
Reactions: Helios and demigod
Jan 9, 2018
1,175
1,472
440
Guys, the biggest scam is releasing a game that will be as old in it's gameplay and presentation as the second was decades ago. ;)
I mean that is why people gave money to them in the first place, for more of the same pretty much. At this point the closure to the story is more important than the gameplay for some Shenmue fans. That's how I feel about certain other games that need long overdue sequels.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: gamergirly

BibleBLACKED

Formerly 'Eraroten'
Mar 20, 2017
1,397
2,197
615
I mean that is why people gave money to them in the first place. At this point the closure to the story is more important than the gameplay for some Shenmue fans. That's how I feel about certain other games that need long overdue sequels.
I know, I am being cheeky.
 

Blancka

Member
May 20, 2019
301
202
245
Nobody really gives a fuck about what you personally think about the difference between a steam key and an egs key are though.
If you weren't a backer, you have zero fucking say in what the people who were want or expect for their money, or their right to be upset at being promised one thing and then given another.

Other games that have done this switcharoo have both honoured refunds to the people upset at being missold a product that is no longer to the specifications they agreed to when purchasing, and have tried to sweeten the deal to avoid those people taking that refund, by offering things like a free extra egs key, a free extra steam key down the line, upgrades to a more premium edition, etc.

DS saying "lol, we have your money, fuck you manbaby" deserve to get shit for doing that. They've broken their contract.
Oh my sweet summer child....

I won't spend much time on this. I know you won't respond too well to logic if you think I couldn't understand how crowdfunding works because I didn't give $20 to shenmue, but there is no "contract". You didn't buy anything. You backed it.

Not to mention as others have pointed out, steam was never mentioned on kickstarter. Only through their chosen (third party) distributor, which earlier screenshots in this thread showed came with a "All this shit can change at any point if we give you notice" warning.

You have no "Rights" here so to speak. Go ahead and be outraged. That much is understandable to a degree. But throwing a tantrum and claiming you're entitled to XYZ doesn't make it true. If you didn't understand this and backed a kickstarter, then you failed to be responsible with your money. Take it as a lesson.

Again, I've said in previous comments that it's in very poor taste by them to do this, but anyone claiming it's their "Right" to get the game on steam or that they're "Legally entitled" to anything, is flat out, and objectively wrong.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Proteus Maximus

M0G

Member
Oct 8, 2014
150
49
290
Worcester, UK
You don't pay Unreal Engine royalties to Epic if you use EGS too.
So going Steam is 30% + UE royalties while EGS is fixed 12%.

People will hate but EGS have clear advantages to devs over Steam... it is not just moneyhat.
Probably the most informative post in the thread and adds some perspective on the sitation for those (like myself) who didn't know this. I still don't want EGS on my precious computer but hey... to each their own. Great deal for devs but a big fuck you to any consumer that doesn't want their shit installed.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Aug 20, 2015
9,768
571
470
I know you won't respond too well to logic
Uh huh?
What's the logic in telling people who were assured that they would receive one thing, then being told that they would not in fact receive what they were told they would "stop whining"?
Because you're not one of those people and you don't give a fuck, they're not allowed to?

cool solipsism, bro
 
  • Like
Reactions: CyRuZ

ethomaz

Member
Mar 19, 2013
24,480
3,659
800
37
Brazil
Probably the most informative post in the thread and adds some perspective on the sitation for those (like myself) who didn't know this. I still don't want EGS on my precious computer but hey... to each their own. Great deal for devs but a big fuck you to any consumer that doesn't want their shit installed.
It is a bold move for sure.
BTW UE4 royalty are 5% of the sale.

For more info: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/announcing-the-epic-games-store

All Developers Earn 88%
Developers receive 88% of revenue. There are no tiers or thresholds. Epic takes 12%. And if you’re using Unreal Engine, Epic will cover the 5% engine royalty for sales on the Epic Games store, out of Epic’s 12%.

 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: Hendrick's

Blancka

Member
May 20, 2019
301
202
245
Uh huh?
What's the logic in telling people who were assured that they would receive one thing, then being told that they would not in fact receive what they were told they would "stop whining"?
Because you're not one of those people and you don't give a fuck, they're not allowed to?

cool solipsism, bro
Never said stop whining. Complaints are justified. Just pointing out that you're mistaken if you think you're legally entitled to any form of compensation from a kickstarter not meeting your expectations.

Be as pissed as you want, it won't change your rights or the laws regarding crowdfunding and capital ventures
 
  • Like
Reactions: Proteus Maximus

JunkerWoland

Member
Jun 29, 2016
539
477
365
This is a scummy move, barring any potential compromise to give backers the ability to redeem a Steam version of the game at launch.

Having had my own disappointing experience in supporting video game crowd-funding campaigns, besides knowing there's little-to-no recourse, you feel dumb for giving into emotions and allowing a company to prey on your wallet. Hopefully the companies involved will listen to backers and find a compromise, but this will probably just be another learning experience for consumers.
 
  • Like
Reactions: CyRuZ

Fushitsusha

Member
May 25, 2019
518
853
450
27
Sweden
TIL you guys are bad at comparisions/analogys...

if you wanna do it with ordering pizza, a more apt analogy is this:

when you bought it, you get free condiments, like chilli or garlic if you want. (at the pizzaplace you trust and know)

now another company sends the same pizza, but without the garlic and chilli you expected and the pizza tastes like bland shit. The Box is covered in stains and the deliveryboy dropped the box on the floor.

Some of you guys here are going the route of " there is still pizza inside, so dont complain!"

and yes, i like garlic. it was the main reason i ordered there in the first place.
so fuck off. :)
But isn't this analogy wrong by even your own admission? You agreed that the contents of the game never changed, but here you are, spouting the exact opposite, just so your argument can seem to make sense?

Correct me if I'm wrong [might have been someone else's statement], too early in the morning for gothic architecture.
 
Last edited:

LordRaptor

Member
Aug 20, 2015
9,768
571
470
Never said stop whining. Complaints are justified. Just pointing out that you're mistaken if you think you're legally entitled to any form of compensation from a kickstarter not meeting your expectations.

Be as pissed as you want, it won't change your rights or the laws regarding crowdfunding and capital ventures
I didn't back shit; this isn't a topic about me.
The fact that you also didn't back shit, don;t see what the difference between a steam key and an egs key is, or why the people who did and want to call DS out for doing this are "throwing a tantrum" and "making a mountain out of a molehill" should have clued you in that its also not a topic about you.
 

Clear

Member
Feb 2, 2009
9,020
2,034
980
It strikes me that if you don't have a massive pre-existing hate-boner for EGS, then this change really doesn't seem like such a big deal.

That's the big difference here between all parties involved. I doubt anyone on the dev/pub end feel/felt this way, and so will have ok'd the deal thinking nothing of it.

No judgement on the rights and wrongs of it all, just an honest observation on what appears to be the crux of the matter.
 

Jenenser

Member
Jul 30, 2013
1,348
79
440
But isn't this analogy wrong by even your own admission? You agreed that the contents of the game never changed, but here you are, spouting the exact opposite, just so your argument can seem to make sense?

Correct me if I'm wrong [might have been someone else's statement], too early in the morning for gothic architecture.
in my analogy, the condiments chilli and garlic are the value that steam brings.
that stuff isnt on the pizza, you get it on the side and can choose how much you put on top. you can even leave it if you decide otherwise. the stains and the dropped pizza is for all the shit epic did and does. moneyhats, scanning your machine and collecting data without your consent for example. (and yes, they did that, and i am not talking about chinese governemt hurrdurrbullshit)

it atleast incorporates the issues someone might have. other examples here ignore this stuff.

so yes, its the closest we can get with an analogy without ignoring stuff al around.

and you still didnt answer my question. :/
 

Sentenza

Member
Dec 3, 2011
13,989
614
685
I don't understand, so like, people can't install Epic Games Store? What's the deal? I'm not understanding any of this. Sorry, I'm just not a virgin anymore to understand the issue here.
But that's not a justification for being autistic.
 
Last edited:
  • Fire
Reactions: Shifty

RokkanStoned

Gold Member
Jan 14, 2018
1,996
2,128
565
Norway
I've gone through a couple of searches, but I've found no promise of a Steam version during the campaign. If they've changed it after the campaign, there could be a case for the "slacker backers" if they were lured in with the promise of a Steam version.
If there's any info out there to claim it a scam, it would have to be in videos they made during the campaign. If not, then it's hardly a scam, as long as they deliver what they promised.

That said, considering they allowed you to choose platform and choose Steam, they definitely should allow you to choose a different version if you don't want the EGS PC version.
 

TheThreeevils

Neo Member
Jun 19, 2015
2
0
180
From the official site, it's confirmed to be coming out on steam.


Check the FAQ under preorders
 

ComptonJapan

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
174
176
160
Compton, Japan
comptonjapan.com
But that's not a justification for being autistic.
I'm sure you don't know what autism is, just like how people don't know what a cuckold is and like to throw it around freely when playing Minecraft competitively. I can totally understand your frustration of this game being an Epic Store exclusive. Especially if you swear by Gabe's balls and cannot user another service at all and you backed the project. It's all good brother.
 

brokenduck

Member
Dec 20, 2018
214
135
220
On one hand they lied to backers but without the extra money from deep silver and epic this game would look far worse or won’t even be completed, I didn’t back any so I guess I’ll buy it when it’s on deep sale. Glad epic launcher is never a problem for me plus I mostly play single player games so the lack of features in epic launcher isn’t big deal for me. I just wish they have forums back for troubleshooting potential problems in a game.
 

Kadayi

GIF PIMP
Oct 10, 2012
7,864
6,522
995
theconclave.net
Not to mention as others have pointed out, steam was never mentioned on kickstarter. Only through their chosen (third party) distributor, which earlier screenshots in this thread showed came with a "All this shit can change at any point if we give you notice" warning.
But they didn't give them any notice, they just dropped it in the middle of a conference.

It is a bold move for sure.
BTW UE4 royalty are 5% of the sale.

For more info: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/announcing-the-epic-games-store

All Developers Earn 88%
Developers receive 88% of revenue. There are no tiers or thresholds. Epic takes 12%. And if you’re using Unreal Engine, Epic will cover the 5% engine royalty for sales on the Epic Games store, out of Epic’s 12%.

That 30% is only on a certain number of sales, once a game hits a sales threshold then it translates to 25% and then 20%.: -


Essentially if your game turnover on Steam was $100 million (say 1.6 million units at $60), you'd end up paying $23 million to Valve in platform costs. $3 million on the first 10 million (30%), $10 million between $10 - 50 Million (25%), and $10 million on $50 - 100 million (20%).

This adjustment was made last year. Most popular games indie or AAA will likely cross the first if not the second threshold.

Also, that chart is notably wrong, The 5% is 5% of whatever the profit is, not the gross sales turnover, so you won't be paying up to 35% of your income if you were selling an Unreal game on Steam. You are paying 5% of your profits after Valve takes the platform cut. That chart is pure misleading propaganda from Epic. I don't know why people keep using it tbh versus doing the math themselves.
 
Last edited:

Solomeena

Member
Jan 8, 2018
1,163
1,547
395
Especially if you swear by Gabe's balls and cannot user another service at all and you backed the project. It's all good brother.
You are still at this huh? Why don't you grow up just a little bit? Or are you just parroting the company line Time Sweeney set forth for you? I swear, every time one of you post to defend Epic and China it is the same talking points.
 

BusierDonkey

Member
Sep 21, 2018
1,033
1,771
350
It is a bold move for sure.
BTW UE4 royalty are 5% of the sale.

For more info: https://www.unrealengine.com/en-US/blog/announcing-the-epic-games-store

All Developers Earn 88%
Developers receive 88% of revenue. There are no tiers or thresholds. Epic takes 12%. And if you’re using Unreal Engine, Epic will cover the 5% engine royalty for sales on the Epic Games store, out of Epic’s 12%.


You're missing an important part of the equation.

Games on the EGS receive 0% from the sales they lose by not also being on available Steam. The devs get their 88% of sales on EGS, but with absolutely no sales on Steam as part of the exclusivity deal, does that 18% make up for the complete lack of sales on Steam? Keep in mind too that chart is not actually representative of the real Steam figures as Kadayi Kadayi posted.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Kadayi

ethomaz

Member
Mar 19, 2013
24,480
3,659
800
37
Brazil
You're missing an important part of the equation.

Games on the EGS receive 0% from the sales they lose by not also being on available Steam. The devs get their 88% of sales on EGS, but with absolutely no sales on Steam as part of the exclusivity deal, does that 18% make up for the complete lack of sales on Steam? Keep in mind too that chart is not actually representative of the real Steam figures as Kadayi Kadayi posted.
So you are estimating that PC sales won't happen due EGS??? It is the same platform.

Are there any study about that?

Even the fake news about Satisfactory selling poor on Epic Store turned to the extreme opposite:

"This is our best launch ever for Coffee Stain," Varlet says. "This is just super cool. It has exceeded all of our expectations. It's just amazing."
 
Last edited:

Sentenza

Member
Dec 3, 2011
13,989
614
685
I'm sure you don't know what autism is, just like how people don't know what a cuckold is and like to throw it around freely when playing Minecraft competitively. I can totally understand your frustration of this game being an Epic Store exclusive. Especially if you swear by Gabe's balls and cannot user another service at all and you backed the project. It's all good brother.
Well, at least you tried, Captain Edgy.
 

LordRaptor

Member
Aug 20, 2015
9,768
571
470
You're missing an important part of the equation.

Games on the EGS receive 0% from the sales they lose by not also being on available Steam. The devs get their 88% of sales on EGS, but with absolutely no sales on Steam as part of the exclusivity deal, does that 18% make up for the complete lack of sales on Steam? Keep in mind too that chart is not actually representative of the real Steam figures as Kadayi Kadayi posted.
They also give up 0% of any revenue by issuing steam keys to backers
 

ethomaz

Member
Mar 19, 2013
24,480
3,659
800
37
Brazil
That is the site jumping conclusion that doesn't even makes sense... how do you have a Megasale that is a disaster but say it helped it reaches the sales milestone lol

Of course any discounts help in any store...
 
Last edited:

ComptonJapan

Banned
Apr 18, 2019
174
176
160
Compton, Japan
comptonjapan.com
You are still at this huh? Why don't you grow up just a little bit? Or are you just parroting the company line Time Sweeney set forth for you? I swear, every time one of you post to defend Epic and China it is the same talking points.
I actually think the Epic Game store is shit and consists of like, 5 actual game and 10 shitty games. However, I don't enjoy swearing by someone's nutsacks and whine about why a game isn't in Steam.

Btw how's that 4 year old daughter of yours that you beat with a bat because she was asking for food?
 
Last edited: