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Yu Suzuki and DS scammed STEAM Shenmue 3 KS backers by giving them a different version of software.

ethomaz

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If they're giving your game away for free in a sale, it's hardly a victory.
Free? It was a $10 off lol

Instead $30 it was sold at $20.

The developer seems pretty happy with the sales... if all sales were $20 * 500k * 88% = $8.8m.
 
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Kadayi

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Free? It was a $10 off lol

Instead $30 it was sold at $20.

The developer seems pretty happy with the sales... if all sales were $20 * 500k * 88% = $8.8m.
But they didn't sell 500K units during the sale ( that's their overall sales). You're full of Fake News it seems. First that Epic propaganda you posted whilst banging on about 30% like that uninformed garbage has wings here (whose rebuttal you silently passed over), and now you're trying to make out that EGS dropping the ball and selling their game at way below the agreed price was somehow doing them a favour? They lost $8.8 dollars on every one of those meg sale purchases.
 
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ethomaz

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But they didn't sell 500K units during the sale ( that's their overall sales). You're full of Fake News it seems. First that Epic propaganda you posted whilst banging on about 30% like that uninformed garbage has wings here (whose rebuttal you silently passed over), and now you're trying to make out that EGS dropping the ball and selling their game at way below the agreed price was somehow doing them a favour?
Wut?

Everything I posted is true I have no ideia what are you arguing lol

Flash sales happens in every store... c'mon... don't create argument when it is against what you want lol

Yes $8.8m is the minimum revenue they got.
 
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Kadayi

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?Everything I posted is true I have no ideia what are you arguing lol
Oh, you're one of those posters. (lack of an Avatar says a lot tbh) You suffer from selective thread amnesia, 🤔

Let's try again shall we,

 
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ethomaz

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Oh, you're one of those posters. You suffer from selective thread amnesia, 🤔

Let's try again shall we,

?

You added info to the post that did agree with what I said... why should I deny that?

Steam can decrease to 25% (20% + 5%) it is still way over 12%.

What I said continue being true 100%... that makes me question what are you trying to make defense control?
 
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Kadayi

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You added info to the post that did agree with what I said... why should I deny that?
What you posted: -



That is pure propaganda by Epic. Nothing more, nothing less. it's not a 65% split. I outlined why.

The 5% is 5% of whatever the profit is, not the gross sales turnover, so you won't be paying up to 35% of your income if you were selling an Unreal game on Steam. You are paying 5% of your profits after Valve takes the platform cut. That chart is pure misleading propaganda from Epic. I don't know why people keep using it tbh versus doing the math themselves.
 
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It's definitely disappointing to see them refuse refunds to people that really want it, as they aren't delivering what they first promised, so I can understand some people are annoyed by this.

Although as a PC gamer myself, I don't get all the love that Steam gets, to me it's just a launcher and store. I have games on Steam, GoG, Origin, Epic and apart from clicking on a different icon, the games all play the same. Guess I'm just too easy going to care about such minor things.

I did back this game and being able to finally play Shenmue 3, is more important to me than what launcher I have to click.
 

ethomaz

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What you posted: -



That is pure propaganda by Epic. Nothing more, nothing less. it's not a 65% split. I outlined why.
You have no ideia what are you talking about.

This Epic "propaganda" happened in Dec 4, 2018... curious Valve changed its revenue share policies in Dec 3, 2018... coincidence?

Up to $10m you are cut 30%
$10m to $50m you are cut 25%
Over $50m you are cut 20%

Plus the 5% from the UE4 royalties....

Most Indies doesn't break $10m in sales (it needs over 500k units at $20 or over 333k units at $30) so that is clear move to help big publishers and not Indies.

The best case scenario for Stem is still a 25% cut vs 12% cut for a Unreal Engine titles but most cases in fall in the 35% vs 12% cut for Unreal Engine titles.

You are just showing like I said that Epic Game Store is way more beneficial to developers even without the famous moneyhat lol

What you call "propaganda" is reality.
 
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Elios83

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While this shouldn't have happened because in some way they're not delivering what was promised I understand their logic.
With the game being made using Unreal engine what would you do if Epic offered technical support to improve the game quickly plus a bigger profit cut on PC sales (which effectively translates into a development budget increase) in exchange of (timed) exclusivity?
I doubt that this was even considered to be a big deal given that people can still play the game on their PC. They have to use an other launcher but it's not like they cancelled the game on a promised platform. Personally if I had to play the game on PC I honestly wouldn't care, but I can only take note of the fact that for some people it's not that way and being able to play the game is not enough.
 

Kadayi

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This Epic "propaganda" happened in Dec 4, 2018... curious Valve changed its revenue share policies in Dec 3, 2018... coincidence
WTF does any of that have to do with the point in hand?

The whole point of a market is to succeed. Not everyone will. This idea that one should pour one out for those poor brave indie souls whose games don't set the world alight is all well and good, but for all the bravado, EGS has proven to be super picky about what indie games they're letting on their store.
 

ethomaz

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WTF does any of that have to do with the point in hand?

The whole point of a market is to succeed. Not everyone will. This idea that one should pour one out for those poor brave indie souls whose games don't set the world alight is all well and good, but for all the bravado, EGS has proven to be super picky about what indie games they're letting on their store.
lol

What are you up to?

What I said continue being true since your first reply lol

Epic Store is more beneficial to developers than Steam.
 
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demigod

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You have no ideia what are you talking about.

This Epic "propaganda" happened in Dec 4, 2018... curious Valve changed its revenue share policies in Dec 3, 2018... coincidence?

Up to $10m you are cut 30%
$10m to $50m you are cut 25%
Over $50m you are cut 20%

Plus the 5% from the UE4 royalties....

Most Indies doesn't break $10m in sales (it needs over 500k units at $20 or over 333k units at $30) so that is clear move to help big publishers and not Indies.

The best case scenario for Stem is still a 25% cut vs 12% cut for a Unreal Engine titles but most cases in fall in the 35% vs 12% cut for Unreal Engine titles.

You are just showing like I said that Epic Game Store is way more beneficial to developers even without the famous moneyhat lol

What you call "propaganda" is reality.
You're missing the point with that chart is what he's saying. It's not a 65% split. It's Steam split 30%, then epic takes the 5%. So instead of a 65% split it comes to a 66.5% split. Sure it's not that huge of a difference but it's not what EPIC is claiming.
 

Kadayi

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]Epic Store is more beneficial to developers than Steam.
Possibly (hard to say without some honest figures to work with versus the obscure marketing talk Epic has been touting) but the brutal truth of the matter is, most gamers don't care about how beneficial something maybe for someone else, least of all publishers (who are the real winners rather than the development studios themselves) versus how beneficial it is for them, and as far as clients go, EGS is a shitshow versus Steam from a user perspective. Casual types who barely PC game might not get why people are upset about the things that Epic have been doing with regard to these exclusivity deals, but invested types who maximise their platform use understand that they the user are the ones who are getting fucked here in terms of choice.
 
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The core argument is flawed though. Has the competition between PS and Xbox destroyed console gaming through paying for exclusives? Nope, it's led to a ton more, higher quality AAA games. Honestly I'm dying for an Xbox VR kit to get announced so that sony ups their game on first party PSVR.

People call it anti-consumer, but literally every consumerism study will tell you that competition benefits consumers. You may not agree with how epic is going about this, but other services have tried the "build it and let them come" tactic and none have come close to steam even doing things like removing all DRM (GoG).

People often lambaste publishers for being shortsighted and driven by profit here and now, but at this point, Epic is doing something that could be of massive benefit in a few years time if they are successful.
2007--We need Sony to recover when corporations compete consumers win

2014--We need MS to recover when corporations compete consumers win

2019--Corporations competing is anti-consumer and inconveinent a monopoly is the only acceptable option
 
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ethomaz

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You're missing the point with that chart is what he's saying. It's not a 65% split. It's Steam split 30%, then epic takes the 5%. So instead of a 65% split it comes to a 66.5% split. Sure it's not that huge of a difference but it's not what EPIC is claiming.
From what I understand Unreal Engine royalties are based in the gross revenue prior to any deductions.
Steam cut the same.
If a UE game is sold at $30 then Epic will get $1.5 (Epic only ask royalties after the first $3k sales) and Steam will get $9.
The developer will get $19.5 (65%) per copy until $10m sales (the exception are the first $3k sales that didn't have EU4 royalties).

It is not % over %... both are % over the gross revenue.

Real example.

Game sold 500k units (I will use full price $30 for easy math).
500k units vs $30 = $15m gross revenue

Steam: 30% over $10m + 25% over $5m = $3m + $1.25m = $4.25m
Epic UE4: 5% over ($15m - $3k) = 5% over $14.997m = ~$749.85k
Publisher/Developer: $15m - Steam - Epic = $15m - $4.25m - $0.74985m = $10.00015m

That is what happens on Steam.

If you release on Epic Store:

Epic: 12% over $15m = $1.8m
Publisher/Developer: $15m - $1.8m = $13.2m

You basically give up near $3.2m choosing Steam over Epic ;)
 
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sol_bad

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And that platform is PC and still is PC. Steam is just shop.
And yes it is 1st world problem when all it takes you to play game is to launch game via different launcher than steam.
Do you play games on PC?

I don't understand, so like, people can't install Epic Games Store? What's the deal? I'm not understanding any of this. Sorry, I'm just not a virgin anymore to understand the issue here.
Do you play games on PC?
 
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Stuart360

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Ah the old 'its just another launcher, i dont get it' posts. Guys do a bit of research into why people hate the Epic Store. Having to have another launcher is just one of many reasons, and one of the more trivial reasons.
 
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Kadayi

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Do you play games on PC?
Don't waste your time, they only play with themselves apparently. 🖐

Ah the old 'its just another launcher, i dont get it' posts. Guys do a bit of research into why people hate the Epic Store. Having to have another launcher is just one of many reasons, and one of the more trivial reasons.
That would require effort and a basic IQ on their parts. It's already been explained to them from what I can tell, but they're too inept to understand. Pity them, it's the only legitimate course of action at this juncture.
 

Blancka

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I didn't back shit; this isn't a topic about me.
The fact that you also didn't back shit, don;t see what the difference between a steam key and an egs key is, or why the people who did and want to call DS out for doing this are "throwing a tantrum" and "making a mountain out of a molehill" should have clued you in that its also not a topic about you.
I had 5 dollars and spent 2.50 of it. How much do I have left?

Man, it sucks that nobody can help me figure out this particular maths because the spending was about what I wanted to buy and therefore they couldn't possibly understand the possible mathematics due to not having a personal stake in this.

For realsies though. Post on an open forum, expect replies. Act like a crybaby on a public forum, expect to be pointed and laughed at. Disagreeing with a decision doesn't automatically make it illegal.
 
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Kadayi

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The game doesn't drop for another 5 months. That's pretty timely as far as notices of change go
GTFO with that sort of horseshit. It's a Kickstarter. At the very least they're supposed to announce anything and everything through that, not drop a bombshell in the middle of an E3 presser of all things.

Also, learn to use the multi-quote feature. You don't get prizes here for post count, so don't double post. It's a bad look.
 

Dontero

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Do you play games on PC?
30 years mate. I still remember times when Steam was garbage spyware you people are now proud off for some reason.
It didn't change much though. It is still crappy drm laucher that dissalows you to play games how you want.
 
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In this entire, pointless debate, I have yet to see a single person come forward with hard documentation from the Kickstarter campaign that explicitly stated that if you pledged enough money to receive a copy of the game, you would receive a Steam key or disc for the game. I cannot find a single thing that promises this at the point the pledges were being taken--the contract between you the investor and Yu's dev team / Deep Silver, that Steam copies were a guaranteed part of the deal to those that wanted it. The only thing the campaign ever promised was to deliver the game on PC.

Tell you what, I've got a real bargain for you. I'm going to give you three quality, delicious juicy burgers for only $1. One single buck.



Oh, it's not were you were expecting? You thought I was going to cook them for you, put them on buns with lettuce, tomato, onions, and pickles? Some condiments on the side?
When did I ever promise that to you? I promised to give you three thick, quality, delicious juicy burgers. Here they are. It's not my fault you made assumptions. No, I'm not giving you your money back. I delivered exactly what I promised when I took your dollar.

Oh, you want to sue me for not offering you a refund? You say I violated your rights as a consumer? I fail to see how any court is going to find in your favor. I delivered exactly what I promised to deliver for the price I agreed to deliver it. Your dissatisfaction entitles you to nothing.
 
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twdnewh_k

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Kickstarter isn't a pre-order service. I get the outrage to a degree, but I have no sympathy. Either understand the risks or stay off crowdfunding sites. You're not buying anything from them, you're donating.
I understand where you're coming from, and yes, there is always a risk factor when it comes to KS; that's why I never pledge.
But this is not really a donation , as that would imply nothing in return; here you are indirectly purchasing a product.

But using your example of a donation, if you donated to a charity based on a certain promise of how to use the money, but then it was used for another cause; not everyone would accept that.
 
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Blancka

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GTFO with that sort of horseshit. It's a Kickstarter. At the very least they're supposed to announce anything and everything through that, not drop a bombshell in the middle of an E3 presser of all things.

Also, learn to use the multi-quote feature. You don't get prizes here for post count, so don't double post. It's a bad look.
k but they still gave 5 months notice
 

Soltype

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In this entire, pointless debate, I have yet to see a single person come forward with hard documentation from the Kickstarter campaign that explicitly stated that if you pledged enough money to receive a copy of the game, you would receive a Steam key or disc for the game. I cannot find a single thing that promises this at the point the pledges were being taken--the contract between you the investor and Yu's dev team / Deep Silver, that Steam copies were a guaranteed part of the deal to those that wanted it. The only thing the campaign ever promised was to deliver the game on PC.


Tell you what, I've got a real bargain for you. I'm going to give you three quality, delicious juicy burgers for only $1. One single buck.



Oh, it's not were you were expecting? You thought I was going to cook them for you, put them on buns with lettuce, tomato, onions, and pickles? Some condiments on the side?

When did I ever promise that to you? I promised to give you three thick, quality, delicious juicy burgers. Here they are. It's not my fault you made assumptions. No, I'm not giving you your money back. I delivered exactly what I promised when I took your dollar.


Oh, you want to sue me for not offering you a refund? You say I violated your rights as a consumer? I fail to see how any court is going to find in your favor. I delivered exactly what I promised to deliver for the price I agreed to deliver it. Your dissatisfaction entitles you to nothing.




This is the page that backers get where they can pick how they want their game delivered. You can also add a name you want to be seen on the game's website, change your address, you can even upgrade to a physical copy if you opted for digital prior. I chose a physical steam disk version oh, that is what was represented.
 
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xrnzaaas

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Deep Silver has always been a shitty publisher, I tend to avoid their games unless it's something I really really want to play (like Metro, thankfully there are console versions).

Also the whole conversation about which store offers better cuts or generally is more profitable for the authors of the game is pointless. They've made a promise and they've broken it, plus it's not like Steam changed their rules for worse in the meantime. Refunding people who don't agree with the change is the only logical thing to do.
 

Blancka

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This is the page that backers get where they can pick how they want their game delivered. You can also add a name you want to be seen on the game's website, change your address, you can even upgrade to a physical copy if you opted for digital prior. I chose a physical steam disk version oh, that is what was represented.
Literally right over the dropdown it states that sysreqs are subject to change, and steam is included in their sysreqs one line above this.
 
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This is the page that backers get where they can pick how they want their game delivered. You can also add a name you want to be seen on the game's website, change your address, you can even upgrade to a physical copy if you opted for digital prior. I chose a physical steam disk version oh, that is what was represented.
This was never part of the Kickstarter campaign. This was a survey from Fangamer sent out after the campaign allowing backers to select options to receive the game. A survey that literally says "Game is currently in development so system requirements may change without notice. We thank you for your understanding."

System requirements changed from Steam Client to Epic Games Store. It was warned right there in black and white text. So Steam was never promised when your money was taken, and when you had the opportunity to choose your version of the game to receive you were explicitly warned nothing was set in stone.
 

Soltype

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Literally right over the dropdown it states that sysreqs are subject to change, and steam is included in their sysreqs one line above this.
This was never part of the Kickstarter campaign. This was a survey from Fangamer sent out after the campaign allowing backers to select options to receive the game. A survey that literally says "Game is currently in development so system requirements may change without notice. We thank you for your understanding."

System requirements changed from Steam Client to Epic Games Store. It was warned right there in black and white text. So Steam was never promised when your money was taken, and when you had the opportunity to choose your version of the game to receive you were explicitly warned nothing was set in stone.
Guess it's legal, dirty pool, but legal.Can I still change my delivery options or is it too late?
 

sol_bad

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30 years mate. I still remember times when Steam was garbage spyware you people are now proud off for some reason.
It didn't change much though. It is still crappy drm laucher that dissalows you to play games how you want.
Can you show your Steam/GoG/Origin/Uplay/EGS libraries?
 
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Dontero

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Can you show your Steam/GoG/Origin/Uplay/EGS libraries?
What is this ? Show me your penis to prove you are man ? Are you 5 or something ?
Considering your line of thinking when i played Daggerfall you probably weren't present in this world...

But using your example of a donation, if you donated to a charity based on a certain promise of how to use the money, but then it was used for another cause; not everyone would accept that.
Using your analogy you argue about which ship they will send that help not about help itself mate.

You would have something if they instead of devlivering game to PC they would deliver it only to consoles.
 
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