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|OT| Zack Snyder's Justice League |OT| Tell Me...Do You Still Bleed?

OnionSnake

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Oh he can be, but he shouldn't be. Clark Kent is white.

There's a dozen other Superman type characters that are black that can be used, palette swapping Kent instead of elevating those characters is stupid and insulting.

There's absolutely no reason to erase a characters race that's any good. We can do better than a white character in black face.

If you absolutely need a black Superman, then we have Val Zod.



Whom, within the greater context of the Earth 2 story, is a pretty good character all his own and not just some shameless color wash. His race isn't focused on as a major trait of who he is as a person and he has some truly inspiring moments.

Hell I'd be down for an Earth 2 movie, trim the fat and you'd have a pretty badass elseworlds film. Thomas Wayne Batman, Red Tornado Lois, and even Aquawoman were pretty awesome. Power Girl had some great moments too, but she would never fly in a live action movie.
Never heard of this character, seems good to me!
 
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Snyder's character arc for Superman is simply sublime.

1. Is the Chosen One. Destined to inspire and lead mankind, to help them accomplish wonders.
2. Dies a year and a half into his career.
3. Is resurrected Christ style to deliver us from evil.
4. Gets cucked by Batman and becomes evil.
5. Is not the one to defeat Darkseid.
6. Marries Lois and raises Bruce's kid.

I mean it's just amazing. I don't see any Superman fan not wanting this.

The guy who said superman gets beat in every movie might like it
 
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The_Mighty_X

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So did Snyder just combine all his ideas for the JL trilogy movie into this 4 hour single movie?

What are we getting here?
 

sol_bad

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What I'm absolutely dying to know is, will Kevin Smith post a selfie of him teared up after watching this movie?

Has he cried over any DC movies before? They generally aren't made as well and have little emotional impact.
 

VulcanRaven

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So did Snyder just combine all his ideas for the JL trilogy movie into this 4 hour single movie?

What are we getting here?
No. This movie is so long because they are basically letting him to do whatever he wants with this cut. It seems that he has included almost everything that was shot and he even filmed few minutes of new footage for this.
 
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mansoor1980

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Posted this in the trailer thread.

If anyone wants to know how it's different than the theatrical cut, spoilers below.

I think a lot of people are vastly over hyping it into something they want it to be vs what it really is. I've seen some insane theories about the ending on Reddit with massive Darkseid cliffhangers and time travel. That's not this movie. I think some people read the JL2 and 3 outlines and think those plot points are part of this movie.

Like how the UE of BvS improved that by fleshing out storylines, this is improved by stuff being removed (the Russian family) and better visuals. But overall it's still the same fundamental story as the 2017 movie, it ends the same way (with one addition), and is a much longer version of the same JL story with more stuff:

The opening scene is still Superman, but not the freaky CG version. It's different and is basically him in agony for about five minutes. Then things slow down for about 30-40 min and nothing really happens. A lot of the extra two hours is just talking, but there's some cool stuff.

  • Cyborg's back story is big part of it. Lots of that added. Cyborg probably has the most added stuff out of anyone.
  • More Nightmare future scenes, which are cool.
  • There's a new flashback where Darkseid fights Ares.
  • There's a little more Mera.
  • There's a scene where the League tries to destroy the three motherboxes and fails.
  • The dumb "KAL-EL NOOOOOOO!" is still in it, meaning that WASN'T a Whedon addition like people believe.
  • The third act is much better without the Russian family and without the red filter.


The ending:
Basically the same as before where Clark Kent rips open his shirt, but then it cuts to Bruce dreaming of the Nightmare future again where he talked to Joker. That ends when he's woken up by Martian Manhunter. The end.
any rumors regarding the sequel to this? plot/director etc
 

SafeOrAlone

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I don't understand what is so bad about the "Kal El, no!" line. I know Gal Gadot isn't the greatest actor, but I don't feel like she blew the moment or anything. The whole scene is cheese and it was like half a second of delivery. Hard to even judge that sample size.
 
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ManaByte

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any rumors regarding the sequel to this? plot/director etc

WB says no sequel. They describe this as "a storytelling cul-de-sac — a street that leads nowhere."


At least for now, Mr. Snyder is not part of the new DC Films blueprint, with studio executives describing his HBO Max project as a storytelling cul-de-sac — a street that leads nowhere.

JJ Abrams is rebooting Superman. Whatever JL they do next will use that version of Superman and exist in the DCEU following the reboot from The Flash.
 
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Reizo Ryuu

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Did anyone buy the hoodie for the snydercut during DC fandome back in august?
I just got an associate producer RSVP for the watch party with snyder because of it, you might want to check your spam if you don't see it.
 
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DeafTourette

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Lots of positive reactions posted on social media today from those who've seen it. Grace Randolph gave a really glowing reaction... I don't think she ever did that for the original JL theatrical cut. Not even BvS.
 
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Hugare

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WB says no sequel. They describe this as "a storytelling cul-de-sac — a street that leads nowhere."




JJ Abrams is rebooting Superman. Whatever JL they do next will use that version of Superman and exist in the DCEU following the reboot from The Flash.
And yet, the new movie ends on a cliffhanger lol

Don't know if that would be Snyder trying to make fans excited for a new sequel, trying to force WB's hands, or WB just really dont care and said "meh, whatever"
 

Nikana

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Managed to get that Book that was written about the Snyder cut from my local library on Overdrive. Gonna give it a go. Hopefully no spoilers.
 
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ManaByte

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It's Polygon, but...


The Snyder Cut is difficult to talk about without talking about the people who demanded it. For years, countless social-media posts and forum threads effectively were the Snyder Cut: a vehement rejection of the theatrical cut, and a fervent belief that the real movie — the ür-DC superhero film — was out there somewhere. A Change.org petition demanding access to Snyder’s version went viral, and with a rabid audience demonstrably present, publications from comics blogs to the Ringer gathered around in fascination or outright support.

Any discussion about internet fandom is difficult. Online groups are often characterized by their loudest voices, and when a fandom is founded over something as extreme as rejecting a $300 million, widely panned blockbuster while insisting they’re being denied access to the secret, hidden good version, it’s hard to imagine the fans being chill about that. What’s more, online movements are often inchoate and leaderless, so while the vast majority of fans who want a Snyder Cut may very well be reasonable people interested in some extracurricular online camaraderie (even raising money for charity), they aren’t necessarily influencing the more toxic members of their cohort, who turn the discourse into a crusade against supposed malicious intent on DC and Warner Bros’ part against the True Fans, who only Zack Snyder understands.
Even the phrase “Snyder Cut” is a bit of a misnomer, because while Zack Snyder has said on-record that he had an assembly cut he took with him and tinkered with after leaving Justice League, it wasn’t a finished film. Turning the pieces into one reportedly cost Warner Bros. $70 million, which Snyder and others say went almost entirely toward post-production costs like finishing visual effects, with very little new footage filmed. None of that really matters; the important thing is that a complete, untampered version of his Justice League will be here, vindicating fans foul and fair alike. And everyone else is along for the ride, as extras in a strange, fraught production no one signed on for.

The film is a cultural minefield, a Jurassic Park situation where a bunch of people decided to clone velociraptors without thinking too hard about why we might be better off now that velociraptors are extinct. Toxic fandoms need oxygen to sustain themselves, and with Zack Snyder’s Justice League, Warner Bros. is eagerly pumping the bellows in the hopes that fans will subscribe to HBO Max in droves to finally get something they feel has been unfairly withheld from them. It’s the sort of cynicism that would make Jurassic Park proprietor John Hammond feel proud.
In the absence of face-to-face interaction, online life has a way of reducing people to a collection of stated opinions. Whether those opinions are sincere or full-on trolling doesn’t matter — everyone is just an avatar and some text looking for people to share opinions with, and build their online identity around. This is, at a very basic level, what online fandom is: people wearing avatars of enthusiasm, superhero alter-egos where they can forget work or school, and just be people who really like, say, Zack Snyder’s DC films. So what happens after they’ve been offered an unimaginable success?

And the fans are now latching onto that suggestion. Most fandom is a state of willful delusion about its own importance: It is generally foolish to think billion-dollar companies care about your opinion of a movie. When it seems like they do, that feels intoxicating and empowering, even if the power is only an illusion. It’s like hearing your crush say they’ll go out with you “When Waluigi is added to Smash” and responding, “So you’re saying there’s a chance.” A taste of power can turn the tiniest glimpse of blue sky into a wide-open universe of possibilities. The #ReleaseTheSnyderCut stans have that blue sky, and they’re responding with another hashtag: #RestoreTheSnyderVerse.

At its most toxic, fandom is restrictive. As people nag creators to focus only on re-creating the things the fans previously loved, they chase away the new visionaries who would make their favorite things more vibrant and lasting. They also chase away the ideas that would expand the worlds they love. The fervor the calls for a Snyder Cut worked up came with a requisite denial of what might eventually replace the failed Justice League at some point in the future. Perhaps it would be something better, perhaps something worse. Again: No one knew the director of Babe: Pig in the City was a few years away from making one of the most acclaimed action movies of the decade. Fandom is terrific at boosting the things it loves. It’s fairly bad at predicting — or for that matter, empowering — the thing it’ll love next.
 

ManaByte

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Someone on Reddit made this:



This was the ORIGINAL cliffhanger ending they shot (and at that stage they were using the Reynolds movie designs for Killowog and Tomar-Re because they didn't redesign them yet). It was changed and reshot to be Martian Manhunter instead.
 

Dacon

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"Finally sat down and watched ZSJL. This film is all heart man. Amazing what so much fan support can do. Much love for my man #Batfleck. Couldn't see the credits through the tears in my eyes. #ZackAttack."

Kevin Smith really needs to fade away into obscurity.
 

DeafTourette

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"Finally sat down and watched ZSJL. This film is all heart man. Amazing what so much fan support can do. Much love for my man #Batfleck. Couldn't see the credits through the tears in my eyes. #ZackAttack."

Love this guy. He's a softy like me.

And I appreciate that he only talks about stuff he actually likes.
 

DeafTourette

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Dont wanna be a downer or anything, but are those people well known or something?

Because early reviews for comic book movies, we all know what usualy happens

The early reviews of BvS were for the version we EVENTUALLY got with The Ultimate Edition... not the theatrical version ...
 

Hugare

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The early reviews of BvS were for the version we EVENTUALLY got with The Ultimate Edition... not the theatrical version ...
I was not talking especificaly about BvS, but pretty much every superhero movie nowadays

A lot of people from early screenings usualy overreacts.

But maybe I'm being a bit cynic
 

DeafTourette

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I was not talking especificaly about BvS, but pretty much every superhero movie nowadays

A lot of people from early screenings usualy overreacts.

But maybe I'm being a bit cynic

Sorry, I meant REACTIONS... early reactions. Not reviews.

But yeah... early reactions are usually kinda hyperbolic. But sometimes they jibe with later reviews. But actual critics are not the same as audience. They look at movies differently.
 

Ionian

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Dont wanna be a downer or anything, but are those people well known or something?

Because early reviews for comic book movies, we all know what usualy happens

If you look at the accounts, only one has a large following. They're random users.

That last one with the Superman avatar has 24, few others get up to roughly 2k.
 

VulcanRaven

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VulcanRaven

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A few days to go and still no news on VOD platforms for us outside of America? Bruh.

Also I never saw BvS. Should I or does it not even matter?
I wasn't a big fan of BvS but it should be watched before this. It introduces Batman and Wonder Woman. People say that the longer Ultimate Edition version is better but I haven't seen it.
 
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KyoShiRo330

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You mean people with #AssociateProducer and #RestoreTheSnyderVerse in their Twitter bios aren't impartial reviewers?

Remember Snyder's movies aren't made for "snake" critics.
Why did you create an OT for a movie you clearly don't like with a preconceived opinion ? I really don't get it.

Of course those early impression don't mean anything but still, if the movie was really bad I don't think those people would say that.

I swear if the movie is good, some people here are gonna eat a lot of crows.
 
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ManaByte

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if the movie was really bad I don't think those people would say that.

If they said anything negative they would be blacklisted from future screeners because WB's instructions specifically say that POSITIVE reactions are allowed on social media. There's an actual review embargo for real reviews.
 
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KyoShiRo330

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If they said anything negative they would be blacklisted from future screeners. There's an actual review embargo for real reviews.
Yes and ? They could say something like "just saw the movie, my review tomorrow when embargo lift" but no, of course they are just fanboys who overhype everything right ?

And again, why did you create an OT for a movie you clearly don't like with a preconceived opinion ?
 

ManaByte

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Yes and ? They could say something like "just saw the movie, my review tomorrow when embargo lift" but no, of course they are just fanboys who overhype everything right ?

As someone who has actually been under a social media and review embargo before, the social embargo is used to hype movies and people use that to hype up fanboys and grow their social media followers/engagement. That's why BvS had amazing glowing reactions, and then got trashed when the actual reviews came out.

HBO literally says to just share "positive reaction and excitement" on social media. Reviews aren't allowed until closer to release:
 
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KyoShiRo330

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As someone who has actually been under a social media and review embargo before, the social embargo is used to hype movies and people use that to hype up fanboys and grow their social media followers/engagement. That's why BvS had amazing glowing reactions, and then got trashed when the actual reviews came out.

HBO literally says to just share "positive reaction and excitement" on social media. Reviews aren't allowed until closer to release:
Yeah, I see they encourage them. They are not like "if you didn't like the movie, don't post".
But ok, you can be right and, for example, I guess Zack Pen is just a fanboy who try to grow his community (you know, the guy who was scriptwriter on Avengers 1).

And, for the third time:
Why bother creating an OT for a movie you clearly don't like with a preconceived opinion ?
 

ManaByte

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And, for the third time:
Why bother creating an OT for a movie you clearly don't like with a preconceived opinion ?

Why throw around accusations against someone? All I did was explain how social media reactions ARE MEANT TO BE OVERLY POSITIVE WITH ANYTHING NEGATIVE BEING SAVED FOR REVIEWS and you turn into a full-on Snyder cultist in attack mode.

Man of Steel is still my favorite modern superhero movie:


and I like BvS a lot (but the theatrical cut is garbage):

If you're looking for a Snyder dick sucking circle jerk, r/DC_Cinematic is that way.
 
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KyoShiRo330

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Why throw around accusations against someone? All I did was explain how social media reactions ARE MEANT TO BE OVERLY POSITIVE WITH ANYTHING NEGATIVE BEING SAVED FOR REVIEWS and you turn into a full-on Snyder cultist in attack mode.

If you're looking for a Snyder dick sucking circle jerk, r/DC_Cinematic is that way.
You're trying to downplay anything positive about the Snyder Cut so yeah, I made those 'accusations' lol.
Also BREAKING NEWS, FANBOYS ACT LIKE FANBOYS WHOOOO INCREDIBLE.
But beside that, there is just honest people who liked MoS and BvS and are waiting to see this Justice League. If it's bad, I'll be the first to say it but it doesn't look like it.
 

ManaByte

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You're trying to downplay anything positive about the Snyder Cut so yeah, I made those 'accusations' lol.
Also BREAKING NEWS, FANBOYS ACT LIKE FANBOYS WHOOOO INCREDIBLE.
But beside that, there is just honest people who liked MoS and BvS and are waiting to see this Justice League. If it's bad, I'll be the first to say it but it doesn't look like it.

One of my friends who is one of the biggest DC fans (hell he knows people who work at WB), HATED it because it was still the same Justice League. But I don't always agree with him because he completely hated Venom, and I thought only the first half of that was completely shit.
 

KyoShiRo330

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One of my friends who is one of the biggest DC fans (hell he knows people who work at WB), HATED it because it was still the same Justice League. But I don't always agree with him because he completely hated Venom, and I thought only the first half of that was completely shit.

Jim Carrey Lol GIF


Yeaaaaah the same movie...

Michael Jordan Reaction GIF
 

KyoShiRo330

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It's still the same story of Steppenwolf trying to steal the three mother boxes, and a lot of stuff people blame Whedon for (Flash being goofy, the 'Kal-El NOOOOOOOO' line) is still in it. I posted on the first page what a lot of the additions are.
I know I read that post, but I'm sure you can agree on something:

If you give the same script to, let's say Jean Pierre Jeunet and well, Michael Bay, you won't have the same movie.
The story can have the same general plot, it's the execution that matter.

So no, I don't think it's gonna be the same movie.
 

Cleared_Hot

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Oh he can be, but he shouldn't be. Clark Kent is white.

There's a dozen other Superman type characters that are black that can be used, palette swapping Kent instead of elevating those characters is stupid and insulting.

There's absolutely no reason to erase a characters race that's any good. We can do better than a white character in black face.

If you absolutely need a black Superman, then we have Val Zod.



Whom, within the greater context of the Earth 2 story, is a pretty good character all his own and not just some shameless color wash. His race isn't focused on as a major trait of who he is as a person and he has some truly inspiring moments.

Hell I'd be down for an Earth 2 movie, trim the fat and you'd have a pretty badass elseworlds film. Thomas Wayne Batman, Red Tornado Lois, and even Aquawoman were pretty awesome. Power Girl had some great moments too, but she would never fly in a live action movie.
I agree 100%

It's just offensive to peddle too blacks some bs blackwashed superman when it's possible to have other equally cool characters who happen to be black that can start a new path. Think CREED movies. They didn't fucking make rocky black. That made a new interesting character who happens to be black and works in the same universe. Same deal with Miles in spider-man
 

ManaByte

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I agree 100%

It's just offensive to peddle too blacks some bs blackwashed superman when it's possible to have other equally cool characters who happen to be black that can start a new path. Think CREED movies. They didn't fucking make rocky black. That made a new interesting character who happens to be black and works in the same universe. Same deal with Miles in spider-man

Calvin Ellis isn't Clark Kent though.

But again, people are assuming it'll be black Superman due to the writer while ignoring that it's JJ Abrams producing it who is such a nostalgia addict he remade A New Hope.
 

Cleared_Hot

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Calvin Ellis isn't Clark Kent though.

But again, people are assuming it'll be black Superman due to the writer while ignoring that it's JJ Abrams producing it who is such a nostalgia addict he remade A New Hope.
He's also a shit writer too so there's that... JJ can direct the fuck out of anything but his writing is so weak
 

FunkMiller

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I know I read that post, but I'm sure you can agree on something:

If you give the same script to, let's say Jean Pierre Jeunet and well, Michael Bay, you won't have the same movie.
The story can have the same general plot, it's the execution that matter.

So no, I don't think it's gonna be the same movie.

It's essentially the same plot, but the tone is going to be wildly different. It'll be a direct sequel to Batman V Superman, rather than a weird hodge podge of two competing visions that didn't sit well with one another at all.

I can't say I'm expecting it to necessarily be that much better a film than the theatrical cut, because Batman V Superman was so poor - and this is the same story continued, but I am expecting it to be a more cohesive vision that makes sense and brings that trilogy to a proper end. I'm also hoping Zack has maybe learned a few lessons from the terrible reception to BvS, and will have taken on board some of the criticisms from both critics and fans.
 
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