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[Refreshment.01]

Or you don't use durians and truffles. They shouldn't have to dilute the mechanics when you can easily just not touch them.

I do want a survival mode, but for hard mode, the cooking mechanics are fine. I'm usually down for mods and different configurations of games, but BotW is so open and allows you to do so much, I don't see the point in forcing anything that can't already be done.

i don't share the polarized views. Think that there are reasonable suggestions from people that request some adjustments. As well, i congratulate Nintendo for giving the player a way to deal with difficulty progression in a first playthrough, something necessary that was abscent from the past 3D Zelda games.

"Don't use it" is not always a valid answer. In this case the phrase dismisses integral aspects of game design like balance and difficulty progression. i don't know how you classify "game balance" as "game diluting". A good balance gives a player incentive to learn and use all the tools the game puts at his disposition. The way cooking works now is opposite to that since it's always beneficial to go for the cheap and high vitality recepies mostly as long as the ingredients are available (which there are plenty) while other ones are never used.

This line of thinking "Don't use it the game is perfect as it is" would have us playing Zelda games with forced collection marathons, more linearity and less emphasis on exploration. Not to mention wonder what a fighting game community will think of such idea for a game with balancing issues.

Remember debates like this in Zelda threads that were about improvements to the formula. Funny enough many of the important changes in BotW fall in line to criticism i' ve made years ago and behold, we now have the more critically acclaimed game in the series after almost 2 decades.

The collecting and cooking is really fun in BOTW but it's designed in such a way that you never have to ration your ingredients, can carry a glut of already cooked meals and eat them mid-combat with no penalty.

It's hard to feel like you're fighting against the elements when it's a self-imposed challenge. I also don't think it's fair to frame balancing an overpowered game mechanic as "dilution."

i sincerely don't know how someone would reach such a conclusion.

The sad part, is that the game has the potential to be a lot better with what amounts to variable tweaks. We are not talking about the "give us 8+ Twilight Princes Dungeons and shrines with unique assets and themes", just adjustments that don't require much work same for testing.

 

[Tusk]

That would be the "logic extrapolation" I was referring to indeed. It really does seem like increasing all enemy tiers needs a new one to increase the previous top one to, but on the other hand it feels odd that they haven't explicitly revealed this new tier when it seems like one of the best ways to promote the DLC.

Is the description of hard mode not basically implying new enemy colors? They say the enemy goes up a level, then gives an example. They then say max level enemies will have a higher level than normal mode.

 

[Gnomist]

The sad part, is that the game has the potential to be a lot better with what amounts to variable tweaks.

"A lot better" has sounded pretty subjective based on what I've seen mentioned. More in line with specific player's tastes or play styles is probably more accurate.

I do agree with your statement that offering tweaks to what already exists could help address some of the items people have mentioned. For example, if Hard Mode introduced a limit on how many cooked meals and pre-made potions you could carry at a time it might address how powerful chowing down is. Perhaps a diminished effect on food bonuses would be in order as well to fulfill the typical Hard Mode desires? Or limit food so that it can only be eaten when you're not climbing or engaged with an enemy. That doesn't sound unreasonable to me and doesn't alter the original way they allow people to experience the game.

I suspect the reason they didn't implement some of the items mentioned in this thread is because they were more interested in allowing a wide variety of player skill levels to enjoy the game. For a game like this I think it's much better to ask experienced players to not trivialize the game for themselves with items than to ask a player who needs those to support items to just deal without them.

If anything this mostly highlights the issue with not having a Hard Mode option there from the start. If there was a proper implementation of a Hard Mode available from the start then they might have been able to cater to even more people's personal taste. Maybe this is a lesson they can take moving forward with future Zelda titles.

 

[atr0cious]

This line of thinking "Don't use it the game is perfect as it is" would have us playing Zelda games with forced collection marathons, more linearity and less emphasis on exploration. Not to mention wonder what a fighting game community will think of such idea for a game with balancing issues.

This is at odds with it self, as you're the one proposing limiting features. I love how open the game is, and that it allows you to play how you want. I just don't think a difficulty change should affect the mechanics. Most of those changes would fit in a survival mode, or that trial of the sword mode, not the base game. The most I'd expect from a hard mode is remixed enemy spawns with more damage dealt than taken and new attacks for more aggressive AI.

Playing the most powerful way possible is not the only playstyle to this game. It's crazy how people complain the game is so easy, when they're the ones over powering themselves. You don't even have to grab heart containers from Divine beasts. If this was any other game, I'd be right there with you, but BotW is a special game, and your "fixes" are somewhat redundant.

 

[kunonabi]

This is at odds with it self, as you're the one proposing limiting features. I love how open the game is, and that it allows you to play how you want. I just don't think a difficulty change should affect the mechanics. Most of those changes would fit in a survival mode, or that trial of the sword mode, not the base game. The most I'd expect from a hard mode is remixed enemy spawns with more damage dealt than taken and new attacks for more aggressive AI.

Playing the most powerful way possible is not the only playstyle to this game. It's crazy how people complain the game is so easy, when they're the ones over powering themselves. You don't even have to grab heart containers from Divine beasts. If this was any other game, I'd be right there with you, but BotW is a special game, and your "fixes" are somewhat redundant.

No it isnt. Its not this untouchable unicorn exempt from basic game design. Its an extremely ambitious title and manages to do some things extremely well and also falls into a lot of the same pratfalls other open world games have. Spinning every flaw or questionable design decision as part of some divine inspiration that has transcended video games is nonsense and is just going to more trouble down the line if these things arent brought up so they can be addressed.

 

[Alebrije]

Aww yeah!

This reminds me of the HS guy

So a nope for me.

 

[atr0cious]

No it isnt. Its not this untouchable unicorn exempt from basic game design. Its an extremely ambitious title and manages to do some things extremely well and also falls into a lot of the same pratfalls other open world games have. Spinning every flaw or questionable design decision as part of some divine inspiration that has transcended video games is nonsense and is just going to more trouble down the line if these things arent brought up so they can be addressed.

I'm not calling it a special unicorn, but it is special in that it allows you to granularly raise or lower the difficulty by either choosing when to engage an enemy, as it usually allows multiple ways to get somewhere, or what you heal yourself with, like I only use elixirs when possible as they don't give hearts compared to food which inherently comes with hearts. And that's a design decision for this exact purpose. And it's only a flaw because it annoys you because for some reason you can't stop healing yourself.

If you're putting on heavy armor and chugging +15 temp hearts, you can't claim the game is easy. If it was easy, you wouldn't need hearts and stamina. The game even allows you to choose stamina instead of making it easier to just tank encounters.

These complaints remind me of the poster who said the save anywhere feature was bad because players should be punished for dying. If you need that in the game just choose a further auto save, you don't need the game to do that, when the game is trying to get you to experiment and not be afraid of death.

 

[Refreshment.01]

"A lot better" has sounded pretty subjective based on what I've seen mentioned. More in line with specific player's tastes or play styles is probably more accurate.

i have said the exact same thing and it's my main criticism directed at the game criticism. Expert players want the game to be tailor made for themselves when they should consider that the game aims at a substantially higher user base (of very varied skill levels) than something like a Platinum Game or one of the now popular From software games.

i think is a miracle Nintendo adressed so many of the criticism and fixed them in this game.

I suspect the reason they didn't implement some of the items mentioned in this thread is because they were more interested in allowing a wide variety of player skill levels to enjoy the game. For a game like this I think it's much better to ask experienced players to not trivialize the game for themselves with items than to ask a player who needs those to support items to just deal without them.

Pretty much what i commnet about above. But i just want to add that:

1) Just the control scheme of the game is asking quite a bit from the player, more than usual for a Zelda game.
2) Even whit the game as it is, the player can wonder about to an area early that can be quite demanding, the desert for example. Yet Nintendo ran the risk.

So i would say balancing out the coocking better won't suddenly make the game inaccessible. im not exaclty making a 2 hour video demanding Bayonetta motor and combo skill levels to beat the game. XD

The game has also plenty of safety nets, for example the amount of item spaces for coocked food is substantial, a generous cap on ingredients, player has the ability to have up to 5 fairies before the game stops to respawning more and Mipha's Grace.

If anything this mostly highlights the issue with not having a Hard Mode option there from the start. If there was a proper implementation of a Hard Mode available from the start then they might have been able to cater to even more people's personal taste. Maybe this is a lesson they can take moving forward with future Zelda titles.

While i agree here, this thread is exactly about the Hard Mode. Our concern comes from the fact that they announced tweaks to enemy health and tiers and forgot about aspects that had a higher priority to adjust in terms of difficulty.

Regarding the "lesson to take" comment. They mostly know the lesson but for an undiscloused reason they chose not to adress it.

It would be very sad if Nintendo stops perfecting this game either via free patches or DLC. i would lament if BotW becomes to some extent another Wind Waker.

 

[Weltall Zero]

Is the description of hard mode not basically implying new enemy colors? They say the enemy goes up a level, then gives an example. They then say max level enemies will have a higher level than normal mode.

If that's what they mean by "levels", then I guess so. It was a somewhat odd term to use in a Zelda game, but on second thought it really can't refer to anything else, as all individual enemies within a tier and type (say, all blue moblins) have the exact same stats throughout the game.

 

[RagnarokX]

This reminds me of the HS guy

So a nope for me.

And Link's best outfit:

 

[Vigilant Gambit]

This game lets you carry around 60 cooked meals that never expire, and as far as I know, an unlimited amount of ingredients (I imagine you get one slot for every possible material in the game, and they just stack infinitely).

One of my main criticisms of this game has been that spending a few minutes cooking meals every now and then with ingredients you pick up during the normal course of play makes it too easy. Any fight that turns bad, you can just pause and eat a cooked durian or whatever.

But Bayonetta actually has the exact same problem, although the nature is a little different.

See, at the end of each chapter, you play the Angel Attack minigame. If you do well enough, you can spend your points on items, and these items ignore the inventory limit. So normally you can only carry 3 or 5 small heals or whatever, but I went as high as 15 before I stopped buying them. And Bayonetta's combat system leaves her with 1 pixel of health any time she takes lethal damage, so you can effectively tank hits that you don't dodge as long as you have another small healing item waiting.

The main difference between Bayonetta's cheese and BotW's, though, is that the game penalizes you every time you use an item, so you can't get everything if you abuse that trick. I mean, getting hit even once during a verse prevents you from getting platinum unless your combo and time scores are perfect, and healing items don't offset that penalty, as it's based on damage taken. Also, it takes a while, since you have to complete an entire chapter to do it (though I imagine you could just grind the prologue on a low difficulty, but then you don't make any progress towards

Spoiler

sai fung

).

 

[Zemm]

Anyone else have problems downloading this update? When I go to the options of the game it says it's downloading and to check the Home screen. The Zelda icon on the Home screen just has a small x which suggests something isn't working.

fixed it: Had to delete the data (doesn't delete saves) and restart the download