Zoe Quinn #meToo / Alec Holowka suicide -- Update: Article questions ZQ's account of events (link in OP)

Aug 28, 2019
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Why stop with an image? Make threads, make you tube videos, make hashtags on twitter or anything else to expose that hell hole. Also, make it a explicit to any game company or developer that if they are in contact with Quinn or any of her ilk that you will not be buying their product.
Something happened between Zoe and Alec years ago.
While the accusations are one sided, it's probably a safe bet it was an unhealthy relationship from the documented evidence.
Neither sound great mentally speaking.
Sounds like some kink games got out of hand.
There were verbal arguments.
Alec admitted during that time he was battling depression, anxiety and other mental issues which exacerbated behaviour he was not proud of.
Eventually they split up with no further consequences.
A few years later (I think, might be months), Alec reached out to Zoe, was contrite and apologised for his behaviour and had been doing much better.
All of this was handled privately between the two adults I believe.
Recently a woman tried to start a #meToo campaign with allegations against Jeremy Soule.
Despite knowing about Alec's condition, battle and the fact this was handled privately almost a decade ago without any criminal proceedings Zoe Quinn thought it was now the chance to release all the details to the outrage mob on twitter lest the chance for some victim accolades go begging.
Wait so they ALREADY patched things up and she went ahead and put their details out there to make him look like trash? And posting it out-of-context to boot? Damn, that's dirty asf.

I only said an image because they're easier/quicker to post onto an article/Twitter thread that sources Reset. But yes, it shouldn't stop there. The sooner that gaming sites realize that they're absolutely awful people, the better.
Also, I've been told that an expose' about Reset is coming out soon from Sophia Narwitz.
Man I really, really, REALLY hope this happens. They have my unwavering support and I've no problem calling out the Reset scum that might try pulling hijinks behind the scenes. They've gotta be reigned in at this point.
 
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I read halfway through that terrible Endgadget article. And all I got was the Gamining Industry itself, full of ally’s who are dubious, are the problem and not the Gamers whonplay the games and pay the salaries.

So are we now combining Anti-GG people with industry people?

Clown world.
 
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nkarafo

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Wait so they ALREADY patched things up and she went ahead and put their details out there to make him look like trash? And posting it out-of-context to boot? Damn, that's dirty asf.
That's why all these "innocent until proven guilty" posts and stuff about evidence and shit don't matter in the end. Zoe is in the wrong regardless if she is telling the truth or not.
 

EightBit Man

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I also think that this whole phenomenon of online accusations stems from the idea that the accusers (unconsciously?) think that they are above the legal system. If you can get all the attention, sympathy, and care of people you do not even personally know, it gives you confidence...or let me correct that...it gives you way too much confidence...that you are in the right.

I've already commented elsewhere that women nowadays are basically an over class, very close to being completely above the law. The law isn't kind to men, and power hungry women take advantage of the very partisan system that's in place. For example, women who commit the same crime as men, face 40% less prison time. This whole system based on chilvary doesn't work anymore in a society that supposedly treats the individual as a responsible human being.
 

Wimbledon

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Opportunistic , that is what she is.

Whether or not the allegations are true , if you still kept in contact with him after your relationship has ended, then you know his situation with mental illness and suicidal tendencies. It's not about "well she has free speech to say what she wants" the REAL QUESTION that she should be asking herself "is it morally right, to put " PRIVATE DETAILS OF OUR RELATIONSHIP IN THE PUBLIC DOMAIN!

Despite the fact that she knows he's been getting therapy, getting the help he needs , most likely calling to see how hes doing, something shes dealt with. All of these things should have been resolved between them privately and left alone.

The only reason anyone does this TODAY, is when the accused party reach success and to expose a weak link or behavior that they may engage in. I'm sure the relationship was volatile like most but the way she describes it , it comes across like they had different outlooks that could not mesh, Kinky fetishes that may have gone a bit overboard, and mental abusive and suicidal tendencies between both. They are both adults you handle this type of stuff privately as it should have been left private.

Zoe is a opportunistic , narcissistic , and vindictive trash heap of a person!
 
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EightBit Man

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Zoe Quinn's abuse led to him dying... That's extremely sad. I wonder if mainstream media will cover his death as extensively.
I highly doubt it. It doesn't fit the established narrative of "man bad, woman good". And to be honest, we as men are also responsible for this one sided narrative. Look at how we as men always side with the woman's side of the story, almost by default. So innocent men, who get into trouble because of a woman face twice the opposition; women and men.

I should also add that all these things these women have been doing go at the cost of people taking genuine female victims seriously. That's what also really bothers me. This makes people become cynics. But don't worry, they are really about the woman's rights.

 
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Sleepy Nocchi

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I've rarely seen this story about Zoe Quinn's behavior brought up before. She basically harassed this crowdfunding effort by some trying to make bullying online more difficult. Always seemed like she never wanted a good solution for online bullying to be found, because it would prove that she's full of shit.
 

CrustyBritches

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These people have no mercy and no forgiveness in their hearts. They're a machination of hatred and resentment. It's all about power and money, and to trample a human life is simply a means to an end. This same exact scheme was used on Evilore for the same reasons. He warned back on Wednesday in this thread the danger and real possibility of suicide from these witch hunts. If people would have listened to GAF concerning proper legal channels, and the presumption of the innocence and right to due process this man could still be alive. This is not justice in any manner.

"How does one man assert his power over another...?"

"By making him suffer"

"Exactly. By making him suffer. Obedience is not enough. Unless he is suffering, how can you be sure that he is obeying your will and not his own? Power is in inflicting pain and humiliation. Power is in tearing human minds to pieces and putting them together again in new shapes of your own choosing."
...
Do you begin to see, then, what kind of world we are creating? It is the exact opposite of the stupid hedonistic Utopias that the old reformers imagined. A world of fear and treachery and torment, a world of trampling and being trampled upon, a world which will grow not less but MORE merciless as it refines itself. Progress in our world will be progress towards more pain. The old civilizations claimed that they were founded on love or justice. Ours is founded upon hatred. In our world there will be no emotions except fear, rage, triumph, and self-abasement. Everything else we shall destroy — everything.
...
If you want a picture of the future, imagine a boot stamping on a human face — forever.
 

Duallusion

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Something happened between Zoe and Alec years ago.
While the accusations are one sided, it's probably a safe bet it was an unhealthy relationship from the documented evidence.
Neither sound great mentally speaking.
Sounds like some kink games got out of hand.
There were verbal arguments.
Alec admitted during that time he was battling depression, anxiety and other mental issues which exacerbated behaviour he was not proud of.
Eventually they split up with no further consequences.
A few years later (I think, might be months), Alec reached out to Zoe, was contrite and apologised for his behaviour and had been doing much better.
All of this was handled privately between the two adults I believe.
Recently a woman tried to start a #meToo campaign with allegations against Jeremy Soule.
Despite knowing about Alec's condition, battle and the fact this was handled privately almost a decade ago without any criminal proceedings Zoe Quinn thought it was now the chance to release all the details to the outrage mob on twitter lest the chance for some victim accolades go begging.
On point. (y) Too bad nobody in the mainstream gaming media has the moral fibre to write up a summary as truthful as this.
 
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Raven117

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This is the online version of medieval justice.
Absolutely. We created laws to help humanity deal with these issues in an orderly way. Is the system perfect? No. But it avoids the far worse human natural propensity for mob justice.

We may be able to hide behind keyboards, online, whatever, but we are still the same humans who walked out of the garden of eden (metaphorically speaking).
 

lifa-cobex

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I guess they don't have to worry about that problem anymore.
If they had absolutely any sense. They could either,
-Put the money towards the funeral.
-Give it to next of kin.
-Donate it towards a charity.

I wonder if it will ever come up again in conversation.

To Ppl who wondering if the family will drag her ass into court, I highly doubt it.
The amount of money and stress for legal proceedings around that kinda thing without a guaranteed win just isn't worth it.
 
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Psydonk

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I also think that this whole phenomenon of online accusations stems from the idea that the accusers (unconsciously?) think that they are above the legal system.
I disagree. Metoo is absolutely right in that the legal system is woefully ill equipped to deal with sexual assault, domestic violence and rape and on top of that police have always treated these crimes as just something to put on the backlog unless it's a black guy raping a white chick. Look at how most rape kits are trashed by cops not even bothering to investigate when the victim does everything right immediately and comes with evidence.

What you are seeing is the backlash of a inadequate legal system on top of police for decades not giving a single shit. People got fed up and lashed out. Sadly sociopaths can use said lashing out as a weapon of their own against anyone that they have beef with.
 

DunDunDunpachi

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How come she deleted her account now? Wasn't she the victim of abuse from GG for years and years, afraid for her life. Never deleted it then.
Valid question. If one applied the same hate-mob logic they've been applying for years, Zoe Quinn is guilty of inventing this lie. After all, why else would she delete her Twitter if she was innocent? The same mob just used that logic against Jeremy Soule...
 

infinitys_7th

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Valid question. If one applied the same hate-mob logic they've been applying for years, Zoe Quinn is guilty of inventing this lie. After all, why else would she delete her Twitter if she was innocent? The same mob just used that logic against Jeremy Soule...
When it comes to Twitter accusations, all actions of the accused are used to claim they are guilty (muh "that's what a guilty person would do!") and all actions of the accuser are used to make them sympathetic.
 
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oagboghi2

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I disagree. Metoo is absolutely right in that the legal system is woefully ill equipped to deal with sexual assault, domestic violence and rape and on top of that police have always treated these crimes as just something to put on the backlog unless it's a black guy raping a white chick. Look at how most rape kits are trashed by cops not even bothering to investigate when the victim does everything right immediately and comes with evidence.

What you are seeing is the backlash of a inadequate legal system on top of police for decades not giving a single shit. People got fed up and lashed out. Sadly sociopaths can use said lashing out as a weapon of their own against anyone that they have beef with.
This is such bullshit. Our prisons are filled with men who committed rape and other sexual crimes. This idea that the legal system doesn’t take these crimes seriously is a fucking lie people use to justify their awful behavior
 

Sleepy Nocchi

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Sometimes I think about just giving up on video games as a past-time, and just leaving it's now rotting carcass for these fucking vultures to peck at.

I get where you're coming from, and I'm not sure what games you play, but I sorta feel like most Japanese studios at least avoid some of the bull shit going in the game industry in the west. And that's what I mostly stick to now, where I still feel pretty good about playing games.

Admittedly, I may be a bit biased, and I know Japan does have some ways to go when it comes to women equality, but I feel like you don't hear so much drama come out of the game development side of it there nearly as much. Japan has many very talented women who work in the industry, and I've always kinda felt that while Japanese games tend to like make female characters stand out as sexy more often...you gotta admit at least they actually have good female characters.

An example would be Lightning from FF13, while the game itself is not everyone's cup of tea, they made a bad ass female character with her. Sure they put her in some goofy, and sometimes oversexualized outfits, mainly as DLC, but I never felt they took away from her strong character. Bayonetta is another great example...sexy, strong, badass. Part of the reason I like playing as sexy ladies in games is not because I'm just a horny male, but I think they're cool. I respect strong intelligent women.

I feel like the problem is that women in the industry are misinterpreting lack of being receiving special treatment as being oppressed. They claim that modern feminism is about equality, but what it really is it's about female wanting to over take men. Instead of fixing the problem, they want to reverse it. Of course men like me are going to fight against that, and it's not because I'm sexist! I don't look down on women, in fact I don't even get along with men most of the time, but they're pushing a movement that actively tries to oppress people like me. No shit will I be against it.
 
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llien

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No bro, you always gotta BELIEVE WOMEN. Even if there's zero evidence to back up the statements and the accuser is a known pathological liar.


I was told laws were changed so that this kind of evidence, had this case hit a court, wouldn't be allowed.
 

Psydonk

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This is such bullshit. Our prisons are filled with men who committed rape and other sexual crimes. This idea that the legal system doesn’t take these crimes seriously is a fucking lie people use to justify their awful behavior
Eh? It's pretty well documented how the legal system utterly fails domestic abuse and rape victims and how common it is for cops to half ass the investigation, just look at the stats for how many rape kits are mishandled, trashed or disappear, it's a staggering amount. Sure they may get a bunch of people, but it doesn't stop the fact it's treated as a second rate crime, especially if the victim is poor or black.
 

EightBit Man

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I disagree. Metoo is absolutely right in that the legal system is woefully ill equipped to deal with sexual assault, domestic violence and rape and on top of that police have always treated these crimes as just something to put on the backlog unless it's a black guy raping a white chick. Look at how most rape kits are trashed by cops not even bothering to investigate when the victim does everything right immediately and comes with evidence.

What you are seeing is the backlash of a inadequate legal system on top of police for decades not giving a single shit. People got fed up and lashed out. Sadly sociopaths can use said lashing out as a weapon of their own against anyone that they have beef with.
I'm not saying that these issues shouldn't be taken seriously, I think they should of course. However, it's also a very one-sided phenomenon don't you think? Let me ask you a question; do you think men are taken seriously when it comes to domestic violence and sexual harassment and abuse from women? Women do get taken seriously when it comes to abuse if they are reporting it through legal channels - very much so as a matter of fact. Men on the other hand... I'm not even talking about innocent men who got into jail because of false accusations. And why is this whole phenomenon about women only? Why was Sarkeesian allowed to have this on her twitter without any repercussions? That the worst kind of people ruined the metoo thing should be obvious by now.
 
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oagboghi2

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Eh? It's pretty well documented how the legal system utterly fails domestic abuse and rape victims and how common it is for cops to half ass the investigation, just look at the stats for how many rape kits are mishandled, trashed or disappear, it's a staggering amount. Sure they may get a bunch of people, but it doesn't stop the fact it's treated as a second rate crime, especially if the victim is poor or black.
If the police didn’t take these crimes seriously, our prisons wouldn’t have rapists in them. We know what happens when police or the DA don’t take something seriously.

Mishandled rape kits is not proof that the police don’t care. It doesn’t justify starting witch-hunt and riling up mobs.
 

Sleepy Nocchi

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Holy shit!! This has been an eye opener. Thanks for sharing.
Yeah...I never really went around screaming about the issue at the time this came out. I made 1 comment on the old gaf, that got my old account banned saying that I simply thought Zoe Quinn's story was flimsy and that was all it took for a ban. Other than that, I was never a harasser, I didnt use twitter, and i didn't try to bring her down. Yet I watched this video which people say started the "hate movement" gamergate, and all I saw in it was a very convincing argument that Zoe Quinn is full of shit.
 

nakedeyes

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Reading this thread is cringe AF you guys.

First so many pages is everyone dog piling about how she is lying.. then the dude commits suicide, which would at least imply there is some truth to the allegation. Now you guys are dogpiling about how she is still fucked up for bringing it up?!

Looks pretty desperately trashy to me. You guys are saying entirely awful shit based on conjecture.

I have a good friend who was good friends with Alec. They were not surprised by this and aren’t jumping on Zoe for calling him out like you all are. Unless everyone talking shit is close to them and/or knows the facts ( which you all can’t be clued in on that level ), this all comes off as a totally fucking incel cringe fest.

Still love you all! But calm down k :D
 

infinitys_7th

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No bro, you always gotta BELIEVE WOMEN. Even if there's zero evidence to back up the statements and the accuser is a known pathological liar.


How the fuck did I miss this?

This sounds like it was before when she was dating/living with Alec. She says that her violent behavior is the reason she could not hold a job, which makes me wonder if she is scapegoating Alec for her continuing to not get work because she had a reputation of violence. That is pretty typical behavior for someone with a Cluster B-type personality disorder.

Another typical behavior is twisting small tidbits of truth into lies for sympathy:

"I showed her pictures of labioplasty as we discussed cosmetic surgery common in modeling" becomes "She showed me awful pictures of mutilated vaginas!"

"She asked me to dominate her in sex" becomes "He told me I was worthless!"
 

Stuchinoko

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Zoe Quinn's abuse led to him dying... That's extremely sad. I wonder if mainstream media will cover his death as extensively.
I've already seen a snippet of an article claiming that "those damn gamers" are weaponizing Alec's death and blaming Gamergate-think. Despite the fact that same article completely brushes over the details of WHY he committed suicide and how Zoe is responsible. Complete double think by scumbags looking for another click.
 

Sleepy Nocchi

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Reading this thread is cringe AF you guys.

First so many pages is everyone dog piling about how she is lying.. then the dude commits suicide, which would at least imply there is some truth to the allegation. Now you guys are dogpiling about how she is still fucked up for bringing it up?!

Looks pretty desperately trashy to me. You guys are saying entirely awful shit based on conjecture.

I have a good friend who was good friends with Alec. They were not surprised by this and aren’t jumping on Zoe for calling him out like you all are. Unless everyone talking shit is close to them and/or knows the facts ( which you all can’t be clued in on that level ), this all comes off as a totally fucking incel cringe fest.

Still love you all! But calm down k :D
I don't know if my comments fit in with what you find cringe, but all I'm doing is having a discussion and expressing my opinion. I don't know if Zoe Quinn is responsible for this man's suicide, but I feel confident in believing that she pulled the trigger on this figurative loaded gun. Whether it was intentional or not, it was irresponsible, and she deserves to be called out for it.

Us having a discussion here on Neogaf is her getting off easy compared to what her, and her hate mobs have done. I'm not going after anyone, I'm not gonna dox anyone, and I'm not gonna seek her out on twitter to harass her. She deleted her twitter account, and I'd be happy if it stayed that way. However, I do think his family should consider some sort of liability case against her.
 
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O-N-E

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I feel like this type of behaviour has been such a huge staple of human history. Righteous anger and wielding a mob to satiate your ego / bloodlust. Very similar behaviour to how townsfolk would be riled up to massacre their local Jewish population or lynch someone. People looking for a justification to murder. It's sad that so many of us are so easily compelled and have this kind of darkness inside. I wish there was a way to cure humanity of this disease.
 

Stuchinoko

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Reading this thread is cringe AF you guys.

First so many pages is everyone dog piling about how she is lying.. then the dude commits suicide, which would at least imply there is some truth to the allegation. Now you guys are dogpiling about how she is still fucked up for bringing it up?!
Alec, who was suffering from mental problems, lost his friends, his family, his work, his reputation, and you seriously believe there is no way somebody in his condition would commit suicide? People have taken their own lives for way WAY less than this. People who were denied dates, people who simply became bored with life. To insinuate being in such a low place that suicide looked like the only option is an admission of guilt is quite frankly fucking disgusting.

Looks pretty desperately trashy to me. You guys are saying entirely awful shit based on conjecture.
That's rich when the dog pile thrown onto Alec was based on pure conjecture. Zoe is a known repeated liar. She's apparently attacked several "rapists" with a knife and horrifically mutilated them. She's embezzled money from a charity donation. She's hardly a saintly figure of truth and justice.

I have a good friend who was good friends with Alec. They were not surprised by this and aren’t jumping on Zoe for calling him out like you all are. Unless everyone talking shit is close to them and/or knows the facts ( which you all can’t be clued in on that level ), this all comes off as a totally fucking incel cringe fest.

Still love you all! But calm down k :D
And yet you believe Quinn, who is just as psychologically unstable.
 
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Flintty

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🤔🤔🤔




Edit: Fat thumbs completely messed this post up. Was supposed to be in response to the post about Alec being ‘exposed’ nearly a decade after it was all put to bed and he was seeking help.

Another graph showing a fuller picture of how the well is drying up. Make of it what you will.
 
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Miku Miku

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Ihave a good friend who was good friends with Alec. They were not surprised by this and aren’t jumping on Zoe for calling him out like you all are
Why not? It sounds like the matter was resolved privately. And this directly led to his suicide just so she could get some victim cred. Why wouldn't his friends find that horrible? Can you explain that?

Try explaining it without calling us all incels.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Eh? It's pretty well documented how the legal system utterly fails domestic abuse and rape victims and how common it is for cops to half ass the investigation, just look at the stats for how many rape kits are mishandled, trashed or disappear, it's a staggering amount. Sure they may get a bunch of people, but it doesn't stop the fact it's treated as a second rate crime, especially if the victim is poor or black.
The legal system fails all victims of abuse. The narrative that rape is so underreported -- and therefore we must resort to mob tactics -- is a lie wrapped in the bow of truth. Child abuse is mishandled and ignored by the law. Spousal abuse is mishandled and ignored by the law. Rape is a crime prosecuted by the law on a regular basis. It's rather sad and ironic that prison rape continues to be ignored in the conversation since it also underreported in those circumstances, but now I'm getting off track.

The inner morality of the family unit is not intended to be kept in line by the law. I'm not implying the law shouldn't be able to prosecute violence within the family, simply that it is difficult. The more power you give the law over the family, the fewer families you'll see.

I fundamentally reject the idea that the government will keep people moral. We could have the most authoritarian society where every action is watched by cameras and there would still be rapes in the world. It is a human crime of passion that has been in our civilization from the beginning. I'm not going to mince words, the "conviction rates" even 100 years ago sure weren't any better than they are today. That doesn't excuse the scum who commit rape, but if we're going to talk about the legal system failing and how common it is for authorities to half-ass the investigation, it is just as important to consider if we are worse off than it was in the past.

Progress has been made for victims of abuse. If someone can publicly accuse someone on Twitter of rape (without immediately being banned and the post moderated for violating ToS), we live in a pretty victim-favorable society, wouldn't you say? If the laws are inadequate, then let's figure out how to make them better, but we cannot accept the "mob justice" that fills in the gap between current laws and the laws we think should be in place. That isn't justice at all. It's despicable behavior that should be cut out at the root.
 
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oagboghi2

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Reading this thread is cringe AF you guys.

First so many pages is everyone dog piling about how she is lying.. then the dude commits suicide, which would at least imply there is some truth to the allegation. Now you guys are dogpiling about how she is still fucked up for bringing it up?!

Looks pretty desperately trashy to me. You guys are saying entirely awful shit based on conjecture.

I have a good friend who was good friends with Alec. They were not surprised by this and aren’t jumping on Zoe for calling him out like you all are. Unless everyone talking shit is close to them and/or knows the facts ( which you all can’t be clued in on that level ), this all comes off as a totally fucking incel cringe fest.

Still love you all! But calm down k :D
How does his suicide prove she wasn’t lying?

And why should we be happy Zoe dragged his name brought the mud, got him fired from his job, and ostracized him in the industry. Am I supposed to feel Sorry for her? She got what she wanted.
 

Shmunter

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Reading this thread is cringe AF you guys.

First so many pages is everyone dog piling about how she is lying.. then the dude commits suicide, which would at least imply there is some truth to the allegation. Now you guys are dogpiling about how she is still fucked up for bringing it up?!

Looks pretty desperately trashy to me. You guys are saying entirely awful shit based on conjecture.

I have a good friend who was good friends with Alec. They were not surprised by this and aren’t jumping on Zoe for calling him out like you all are. Unless everyone talking shit is close to them and/or knows the facts ( which you all can’t be clued in on that level ), this all comes off as a totally fucking incel cringe fest.

Still love you all! But calm down k :D
You’re not the sharpest tool in the shed are you?
 

llien

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First so many pages is everyone dog piling about how she is lying.. then the dude commits suicide, which would at least imply there is some truth to the allegation.
Here we have dude's mom commit suicide, one year after son did.
I guess it proves she co-committed that crime.

An example of a life ruined with false sexual assault accusations, this time no suicide:

So not committing suicide in this case, hints at innocence, or, rather, the fact that he actually considered suicide, hints at the opposite?

Or, maybe, not:
?

... awful shit based on conjecture...
Awful accusations coming from a person with, to put it very mildly, far from flawless track record.
 
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