Drama Zoe Quinn #meToo / Alec Holowka suicide -- Update: Article questions ZQ's account of events (link in OP)

Doomtrain

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"Alec had prestige and money. He had what seemed to be a ticket to making your game dev dreams come true. He had a long pattern of picking someone he was really interested in, immediately suggesting they make a game together, making them dependent on him, and then later abandoning it and them, often in really shitty and harmful ways to add insult to injury. "
... yup, indie game dev is hard. Speaking as an indie game dev: basically EVERY indie has multiple failed projects. It's just part of the process.

As for the "making them dependent on him" part: you could just not?

He's taking the simple realities that every single indie dev faces, and instead of accepting that it's a difficult, competitive road with no guarantee of success, he's blaming his problems on the rest of his team.
 

Halo is Dead

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... yup, indie game dev is hard. Speaking as an indie game dev: basically EVERY indie has multiple failed projects. It's just part of the process.

As for the "making them dependent on him" part: you could just not?

He's taking the simple realities that every single indie dev faces, and instead of accepting that it's a difficult, competitive road with no guarantee of success, he's blaming his problems on the rest of his team.
You live and die together as a team. I don't think I have even seen a group of people work together like family like in the Halo days of Bungie
 
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UncleMeat

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... yup, indie game dev is hard. Speaking as an indie game dev: basically EVERY indie has multiple failed projects. It's just part of the process.

As for the "making them dependent on him" part: you could just not?

He's taking the simple realities that every single indie dev faces, and instead of accepting that it's a difficult, competitive road with no guarantee of success, he's blaming his problems on the rest of his team.
I was going to make this joke: Obviously you guys missed the part about "7 hour work days." Can you imagine the horror?

But I guess he edited that part out once it was pointed out how pathetic it was.
 
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joe_zazen

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Geez, all this Russian propaganda about due process, refusing to participate in mob justice, fair trial in a court of law... :goog_rolleyes:
The beauty of rt is that they do actual investigation and journalism on the west and they are not beholden to western power structures, so they are often the only source questioning our official versions. Now, using them for russian events? Not reliable. But don't discount their international work. In fact, it is a good idea to keep an eye on them.
 
Mar 18, 2018
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So skeletons in their closet? Not surprised.
Riot games now comprises of some ex-Wizards of the Coast employees that worked on Magic the Gathering or are deep in the company cultivated Far-Left friendly MtG community.

I wouldn’t be surprised if half the skinny jean, skull cap when it’s 90 degrees out men there fantasize about throat choke the females who work there that cosplay in there spare time.
 

Durask

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I was going to make this joke: Obviously you guys missed the part about "7 hour work days." Can you imagine the horror?

But I guess he edited that part out once it was pointed out how pathetic it was.
Hates capitalism.
Cries about 7 hour work days.

LOL

 
Jun 26, 2013
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"Men: it's our job to hold them accountable"

What the hell does this even mean. It isn't my job to do shit, fuck outta here with that. There are proper avenues to go down if you demand justice. It certainly shouldn't be coming from some internet mob and definitely not from this jamoke.


:messenger_confused:
I'll ask again for posterity's sake, do all these soyboys shop at the same store?







 

MagnesG

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I do have some skepticism when it comes to people who openly justified their actions with their mental health issues, they are so quick to judge everything and not trying to solve the problems. Still, we would never know the truth.

So, can I suggest we step down a bit from insulting the guy too much? Or least just leave it on GAF. For all we know he may had his own battles we can't rationalize.
 

Doomtrain

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Not kidding. Someone mentioned it earlier in the thread, i'll see if I can find it; hopefully they image captured it.

edit: see above
Wooooow.

I just read his entire article. A lot of random stuff comes to mind, but possibly the most notable is Benson's total lack of gratitude.

I should preface this by saying that I obviously don't know the people involved. I'm not saying Alec was a saint, and it sounds like he definitely had his demons. And I recognize that Benson is also probably going through some crazy shit right now. I wish him well. I could be totally wrong about everything.

But, it skeeves me out how much Benson blames Alec for everything that was difficult about indie game dev, and how little gratitude he shows for the things that went right. And it sounds like A LOT went right. They completed an indie game! They got a publisher! They found an audience and found success! It did well enough that he apparently gets to make more! None of those are small things, and none of them should be taken for granted. The essay makes it sound like Alec did all the programming, created all the tools, and composed all the music. Art is important, and dialogue is important, but a self-professed amateur like Benson simply walking into a scenario where everything else was taken care of for him is uncommon. A lot of people never get an opportunity like that, and Benson writes about it like it's nothing.

He talks about how Alec convinced other people to take risks. To move across the country, to give up their day jobs to make indie games, etc. And how he'd often abandon those projects partway through, leaving his teammates hanging. He then credits himself for getting A Night in the Woods finished. This is believable, but again, not uncommon. Most indie projects never get finished. Lots of them never even go public. People take risks on indie games all the time, and most of those risks never pan out. This doesn't make anyone involved a bad person. It's just the nature of the beast. Anybody getting into indie dev should recognize these risks, and plan accordingly.

Near the end of his essay, Benson says he "survived Alec Holowka." That's one of the tackiest things I've ever read. Again, I'm sure Holowka had his demons. He sounds like he was a legitimate asshole at times. I don't doubt that he hurt people. But he's also the guy that put Benson on the map. He's the guy that programmed Benson's game, and the guy that got Benson to pursue his dream. At the end of all that, Benson is now the one who gets to reap the rewards of that, while Alec is dead, and Benson still tries to paint himself as a victim.

I don't know what the point of any of that was. Like I said, I wish him the best. But he comes across selfish and ungrateful, and certainly not anyone that should be looked up to.
 

the Guynecologist

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Near the end of his essay, Benson says he "survived Alec Holowka." That's one of the tackiest things I've ever read. Again, I'm sure Holowka had his demons. He sounds like he was a legitimate asshole at times. I don't doubt that he hurt people. But he's also the guy that put Benson on the map. He's the guy that programmed Benson's game, and the guy that got Benson to pursue his dream. At the end of all that, Benson is now the one who gets to reap the rewards of that, while Alec is dead, and Benson still tries to paint himself as a victim.
Hey Benson did survive Alec Holowka. Unfortunately Alec didn't survive Zoe Quinn.
 

Cybrwzrd

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I hate to say this, but right now, we probably should hold off on this debate and focus our energies on the humanitarian disaster unfolding in the Bahamas. Zoe Quinn will be griftin’ next week. If the energy that was put into the posts in this thread, could be put Into awareness of the Bahamas, we could have easily built a donation campaign to help them out.

I don’t feel comfortable with making a fundraiser, but maybe EviLore EviLore would be up to making a donation page.

Ok consider this a PSA, get on with your regularly scheduled shitposting.
 
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the Guynecologist

Formerly 'theguynecologist'
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I hate to say this, but right now, we probably should hold off on this debate and focus our energies on the humanitarian disaster unfolding in the Bahamas. Zoe Quinn will be griftin’ next week. If the energy that was put into the posts in this thread, could be put Into awareness of the Bahamas, we could have easily built a donation campaign to help them out.

I don’t feel comfortable with making an effort, but maybe EviLore EviLore would be up to making a donation page.

Ok, on with your debate .
If I remember correctly the Zoe Post first dropped and inadvertent caused a massive internet shitstorm was around the same time as the ebola panic and shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson. I'm just saying I'm getting serious 2014 flashbacks.
 

Cybrwzrd

Anime waifu panty shots are basically the same thing as paintings of the french baroque masters, if you think about it.
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If I remember correctly the Zoe Post first dropped and inadvertent caused a massive internet shitstorm was around the same time as the ebola panic and shooting of Michael Brown in Ferguson. I'm just saying I'm getting serious 2014 flashbacks.
I mean, I can eat conspiracies like groceries, but I fail to see the parallel here. She is a disaster, but not a natural one.
 

DragoonKain

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Regardless of the insanity and madness of this story, never lose sight of the fact that it's still a vocal minority of morons who think this way and most people are sane, rational, and good. Sure the crazies are toxic and can definitely be dangerous, but I've seen a lot of "losing hope in society" posts in here, and definitely would not go that far. As fucked up as it can appear sometimes, I still believe in people and I believe in the most important tool in the universe: our brains. At the end of the day, logic and reason will win out... at least for the majority of us.
 
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Hudo

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A human being that has still not been proven to be guilty of the alligations made against him (People should go to the police. If you go on Twitter and throwing accusations around, you can't (and shouldn't!!!) be taken seriously) killed himself. But holy shit, it is astonishing how many "victims" come out of their hiding to spin this story in such a way that people will feel sorry for them. I'm done. People are garbage. There's no justice to be found here, no rational thinking, no self-reflection. All those SJWs are as bad as every other extremist group.

There's nothing reasonable to say here. The most reasonable thing that one can learn from this: Stay away from "internet friends", "internet celebrities" (or at least be very careful and wary of them, when you happen to associate/meet them at some party on in real-life in general. I would probably advise to try to not meet them in person) and stay away from social media. Don't talk about those people, they haven't earned their spotlight, they are, in general, not worth talking about. Don't spend money on them and their Patreons. Require/ask for proof for any statement people like this make. Don't trust them. Ideally: Avoid them completely.
 
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DansDans

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Regardless of the insanity and madness of this story, never lose sight of the fact that it's still a vocal minority of morons who think this way and most people are sane, rational, and good. Sure the crazies are toxic and can definitely be dangerous, but I've seen a lot of "losing hope in society" posts in here, and definitely would not go that far. As fucked up as it can appear sometimes, I still believe in people and I believe in the most important tool in the universe: our brains. At the end of the day, logic and reason will win out... at least for the majority of us.
Wanna talk about crazy - check out the thread over at ERA about something called a SonicFox saying he/she/it/they are non-binary

The gushing praise and comments are... well... the rantings of completely unstable people

One post was - and i quote badly - very happy as they also identified as a non-binary furry (WTF?) and they were glad something like this person was in the same category as them

I just dont get it.. is mental illness really that badly unchecked in the USA/Canada (assumption this person is from there - I dont care enough to find out)?
 

Chacranajxy

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Wanna talk about crazy - check out the thread over at ERA about something called a SonicFox saying he/she/it/they are non-binary

The gushing praise and comments are... well... the rantings of completely unstable people

One post was - and i quote badly - very happy as they also identified as a non-binary furry (WTF?) and they were glad something like this person was in the same category as them

I just dont get it.. is mental illness really that badly unchecked in the USA/Canada (assumption this person is from there - I dont care enough to find out)?
Wouldn't happen to have a link, would you? Sounds like a good way to kill some time tomorrow morning.
 

DansDans

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It’s a bunch of social rejects latching on to the latest internet trend in an attempt to feel relevant.

That is all it is.
But its fucking scary - these people exist in a world you and I share

And considering what these people are capable of, its... well I dont actually know what to say...
 
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DansDans

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Wouldn't happen to have a link, would you? Sounds like a good way to kill some time tomorrow morning.

I take no responsibility for you feel a little dumber after you've read it though

The funniest thing in the thread is that there seems to be about a dozen different complicated definitions of what "non-binary" is

If it is so hard to explain, and people who 'get' the concept cant explain it to just simple folk, then time to look at how valid the concept is
 
Dec 15, 2011
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Wanna talk about crazy - check out the thread over at ERA about something called a SonicFox saying he/she/it/they are non-binary

The gushing praise and comments are... well... the rantings of completely unstable people

One post was - and i quote badly - very happy as they also identified as a non-binary furry (WTF?) and they were glad something like this person was in the same category as them

I just dont get it.. is mental illness really that badly unchecked in the USA/Canada (assumption this person is from there - I dont care enough to find out)?
Validation is a hell of a drug.

And that's all social media is: The eternal quest for validation.
The hit of dopamine because a complete stranger went to the herculean effort of bashing out 240 characters in your favour. Or managed to click 'like'.
What we see in this thread is the weaponisation of validation - by those who have successfully commercialised it already.
Just as you see elites of the business-world pursue broader power after they've acquired personal wealth.

Maybe it's my age (in my 40s), maybe I have an ego the size of a planet, maybe I have great family, good friends - people that'll tell me what I need to hear rather than what I want to hear. Validation from strangers doesn't mean much to me, which is why social media offers me nothing meaningful and, increasingly, contributes to the decay of civil society.

Please upvote this comment.
Buy my book.
Subscribe to my channel.
Contribute to my Kickstarter.
Support my Patreon.
Harass my enemies.
 
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Kadayi

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My house mate just made an edit on this to say he committed suicide and within 10 minutes, it's back to "Holowka died on...".
Hows this shit even legal, he basically is asking them to be harassed and attacked.
Indeed. With all this talk of 'Cancel Culture' my first question is 'What exactly does that entail?'

I mean when you start talking about actual people as if they are the equivalent of TV series that have run their course you might need to get in touch with your humanity and step away from the computer screen for a bit because you're out of wack.
 

GreyHorace

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Validation is a hell of a drug.

And that's all social media is: The eternal quest for validation.
Why hunt for likes? Isn't it possible to be successful while being an asshole at the same time?

Miles Davis is considered one of the greatest musicians of all time, despite numerous accounts of being a horrible human being.
 
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Sleepwalker

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I take no responsibility for you feel a little dumber after you've read it though

The funniest thing in the thread is that there seems to be about a dozen different complicated definitions of what "non-binary" is

If it is so hard to explain, and people who 'get' the concept cant explain it to just simple folk, then time to look at how valid the concept is

That thread was a very hard read, christ.

And then the one guy that got banned because he said hes never met or seen a non binary person. Mental asylum that place.
 

bhunachicken

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Been staying away from this thread, but I just need to say something:

You know something I hate? The way all the media is reporting that Alec "died". Headlines say things like, "Night in the Woods creator dies". It makes it sound like natural causes, as if he had a heart attack or stroke or something.

He didn't just die, the poor guy took his own life. With so many men taking their lives (suicide is the biggest killer of men under 30) they really should be addresses what really happened instead of playing down what really went on.

(unless the cause of death not been made official yet, which is why the media are avoiding saying it was suicide?)
 
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Doomtrain

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Been staying away from this thread, but I just need to say something:

You know something I hate? The way all the media is reporting that Alec "died". Headlines say things like, "Night in the Woods creator dies". It makes it sound like natural causes, as if he had a heart attack or stroke or something.

He didn't just die, the poor guy took his own life. With so many men taking their lives (suicide is the biggest killer of men under 30) they really should be addresses what really happened instead of playing down what really went on.

(unless the cause of death not been made official yet, which is why the media are avoiding saying it was suicide?)
They're ignoring it because if they admit that #metoo and Zoe Quinn had even the tiniest hand in his death, they have to admit that they were wrong, and they'd rather a man die than do that.
 
Feb 15, 2013
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Resetera is a sickening, evil place. Even now, after the man has taken his life, I've just read several posts trying to downplay it or slyly revelling in it.

Whoever the owners of Resetera are need to make the right decision and close it down, shut it up and try to hope history forgives their sickening witch hunts.
 

Xaero Gravity

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Resetera is a sickening, evil place. Even now, after the man has taken his life, I've just read several posts trying to downplay it or slyly revelling in it.

Whoever the owners of Resetera are need to make the right decision and close it down, shut it up and try to hope history forgives their sickening witch hunts.
Cerium would never give up the ad revenue. The entire place was built on a lie, they preached that it would be different and transparent. They were full of shit because it's worse than it was here.

Funny enough, once they left GAF is the forum that ended up being different and transparent.
 
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Cerium would never give up the as revenue. The entire place was built on a lie, they preached that it would be different and transparent. They were full of shit because it's worse than it was here.

Funny enough, once they left GAF is the forum that ended up being different and transparent.
I just Googled, and he is the owner, right? If he has any decency, he should close it down. How much money does that sickening site make?
 
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Commerce aside, I am against deplatforming so wouldn't want places like ResetEra to vanish.

I say this for selfish reasons: Any outlet that is a meeting point for people I find myself disagreeing with or have concerns about their stances and ethics, how far they'll go, bad conduct and pervasive influence - I want to know where they are. I don't think pushing this sort of stuff underground is useful. The disagreeable characters won't be reformed, they'll just continue but in a way that's harder to see to the casual observer. I feel this is a bad outcome.

And whether every post of every thread gets archived somewhere, the very fact that dialogues and views are castrated, conversations are forcibly shut-down when they go in an undesired direction - this is action that speaks louder than words.

Keep these characters in view.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
 

captainraincoat

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I just Googled, and he is the owner, right? If he has any decency, he should close it down. How much money does that sickening site make?
I honestly think one of their own will turn and air alot of the dirty shit out in public and they won't be able to cover it up

Either that or a game publisher gets sick of their shit and decides to drag their ass through court for harassment and lost sales from review bombing....there are admins over their directly involved in this shit so it would not be too hard
 
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Edammer

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Cerium would never give up the as revenue. The entire place was built on a lie, they preached that it would be different and transparent. They were full of shit because it's worse than it was here.

Funny enough, once they left GAF is the forum that ended up being different and transparent.

All the account suicides here around that time showed that a lot of trash would move over to Resetera.

About the SonicFox thing... well first of all good for him that he came out for it! Altough I dont know this is something to come out for tho... never heared of it before but good for him.
What I notice in that thread is how much of Resetera also claim to be non-binary.
I know, I know I’m from the Netherlands, we are a backwards country, dont have diversity, we have bigotry, homophobic and are extreme racist.. we have zwarte Piet!!
But for real here. I have never met any person that calls him/herself a non-binary and living so close to Amsterdam I would dare to say that I have met lots of people from all countries openly sharing their sexual preference.
But era is full of them? Is this a secret meeting place for all them him’s and her’s?
Is Resetera more progressive then Amsterdam for example?

PSA here;

I dont know what I am either. From now on I would like to refered as ‘other’.
Not him/her/them/their but other.
Can you do that for me? If not I might destroy you in Twatter
 

Whitecrow

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Commerce aside, I am against deplatforming so wouldn't want places like ResetEra to vanish.

I say this for selfish reasons: Any outlet that is a meeting point for people I find myself disagreeing with or have concerns about their stances and ethics, how far they'll go, bad conduct and pervasive influence - I want to know where they are. I don't think pushing this sort of stuff underground is useful. The disagreeable characters won't be reformed, they'll just continue but in a way that's harder to see to the casual observer. I feel this is a bad outcome.

And whether every post of every thread gets archived somewhere, the very fact that dialogues and views are castrated, conversations are forcibly shut-down when they go in an undesired direction - this is action that speaks louder than words.

Keep these characters in view.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
I dont think it's worth knowing where they all are, if it means they can organize and become 'the public opinion court'.
They better spread out and give up on any relevant power.
 
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ROMhack

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Commerce aside, I am against deplatforming so wouldn't want places like ResetEra to vanish.

I say this for selfish reasons: Any outlet that is a meeting point for people I find myself disagreeing with or have concerns about their stances and ethics, how far they'll go, bad conduct and pervasive influence - I want to know where they are. I don't think pushing this sort of stuff underground is useful. The disagreeable characters won't be reformed, they'll just continue but in a way that's harder to see to the casual observer. I feel this is a bad outcome.

And whether every post of every thread gets archived somewhere, the very fact that dialogues and views are castrated, conversations are forcibly shut-down when they go in an undesired direction - this is action that speaks louder than words.

Keep these characters in view.
Sunlight is the best disinfectant.
Also they might come back here so fuck that. #KeepReseteraAlive!
 

OutrageousFacts

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Resetera now made a new thread based on the terrible Scott Benson-text and double down on shitting on Alec.

These people are fascists and it must be repeated until everybody got it. They want to censor what they don't like. They care more about feelings than facts. And now they're fine with driving people they deem fit into death/suicide.

I talked about it back then when Hillary's 'deplorables' came to be. Even though I'm far left and hate Trump, I hated that term and how it was used. Because what's endgame of calling people 'deplorables'? Resetera et al have never answered that. What happens when you are in favor of all thos e you disagree with to lose their jobs, to be outcast by society, to lose their worth as a person? What is it you want to happen with these people? The honest would be: DEATH. Because that's what it all leads to. You want them 'away', 'out of sigh', etc.. So you want them to be forced to do the worst jobs, to have no job, and thus basically rot on the street.

That is the truth about what authoritarians like Resetera really wish for. And they have zero remorse about ir, because they believe themselves to be the 'good' side, and as the good ones, it's just to 'defeat' the 'bad' ones. And now they defeated Alec Holowka.
 

ExpandKong

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I do have some skepticism when it comes to people who openly justified their actions with their mental health issues, they are so quick to judge everything and not trying to solve the problems. Still, we would never know the truth.

So, can I suggest we step down a bit from insulting the guy too much? Or least just leave it on GAF. For all we know he may had his own battles we can't rationalize.
The difference between us insulting Benson and his hit piece on Alec is that Benson’s still around to defend himself.

But relax, this isn’t ResetEra. Nobody here’s gonna stalk him on twitter or call his boss.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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Resetera now made a new thread based on the terrible Scott Benson-text and double down on shitting on Alec.

These people are fascists and it must be repeated until everybody got it. They want to censor what they don't like. They care more about feelings than facts. And now they're fine with driving people they deem fit into death/suicide.

I talked about it back then when Hillary's 'deplorables' came to be. Even though I'm far left and hate Trump, I hated that term and how it was used. Because what's endgame of calling people 'deplorables'? Resetera et al have never answered that. What happens when you are in favor of all thos e you disagree with to lose their jobs, to be outcast by society, to lose their worth as a person? What is it you want to happen with these people? The honest would be: DEATH. Because that's what it all leads to. You want them 'away', 'out of sigh', etc.. So you want them to be forced to do the worst jobs, to have no job, and thus basically rot on the street.

That is the truth about what authoritarians like Resetera really wish for. And they have zero remorse about ir, because they believe themselves to be the 'good' side, and as the good ones, it's just to 'defeat' the 'bad' ones. And now they defeated Alec Holowka.
They'll turn on themselves (they've already begun). Remember, the same "basket of deplorables" in 2016 was praised as the "blue wall" just a few years prior during Obama's 2012 reelection campaign. Doesn't that show their true character? Serve our whims and we'll be nice to you, but as soon as you step out of line, it's shame and condemnation for an entire populace, an entire voting bloc, an entire geographical ("flyover states") region.
 
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