Zoe Quinn #meToo / Alec Holowka suicide -- Update: Article questions ZQ's account of events (link in OP)

Arimer

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I dont know who that Anna Writer is or what kind of site that is she posts too but I really think that's more effort put into investigating any of this than any that happened by most journalists during all of GG. Remember Briana Wu? Her story would fall apart if you even glanced int he direction of proof but no one does. That's what angers me about the whole situation. This whole No need to investigate any claims idea.
 

Orpheum

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It blows my mind this asshat still has a platform and people folllow her. Like holy fuck not even a compulsive liar is as bad as the shit she keeps spewing out of her fucking mouth.
It's the people who WANT all of her claims to be true. Nobody is able to change their mind because they fully locked out any other sources. It's sad really...in my mind being able to admit you were wrong, listening to other peoples opinions and accepting critizism is a strong personal trait. however we know that these people are simply shitheads.
 
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DunDunDunpachi

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I dont know who that Anna Writer is or what kind of site that is she posts too but I really think that's more effort put into investigating any of this than any that happened by most journalists during all of GG. Remember Briana Wu? Her story would fall apart if you even glanced int he direction of proof but no one does. That's what angers me about the whole situation. This whole No need to investigate any claims idea.
It's almost like they're hiding something... :pie_thinking:

...which could have been resolved 5 years ago if these corporate-bought journos had a shred of curiosity or integrity. This situation is entirely of their own making. Backing up liars again and again eventually burns you.
 

kbear

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Fucking great, now I have to update this table again or it'll bother me. This is a table of claims from sources and how they match up. It is the result of only an hour or two's work. Now with added links to what others have been saying. This is a table made with the desire to catalog and compare evidence only.

Disclaimer: If you are a journalist and you are reading this post, don't use it. Gather your sources, create your own comparison table and compare it with this one. Because that's your job. Chance are you'll only spin it into a "hitlist" or battle plan or some bollocks.


Reading:
* Zoe's Claims source is here
* Post Millennial article about Zoe's past tweets is here
* Post Millennial article about leaked DMs between Alec and an unnamed colleague is here
* Strong post by Scott Benson, fellow dev of Night in the Woods, detailing a lot about Alec's mental instability.


ROUGH DATEZOE'S CLAIMSPOST MILLENNIAL FINDINGS (ZOE'S PAST TWEETS)CONCLUSION
PRE-MARCH 2012 (Zoe goes on to say this she meets Alec "one month after the assault", so we can place this around about February-ish)Abuse from an Unnamed Assailant [zoe notes: paragraph 2 & 3]No comment in the PM article on thisNo conclusion - zoe doesn't name this abuser, and quickly mentions that "this isn't about him. I've forgiven him." We can ignore this claim, for now for the purpose of this Alec case. PM doesn't mention it.
START OF MARCH 2012Give that Zoe's notes gives us a rough date of the previous abuse at Feburary, she meets Alec "one month later", placing that around march. We can conclude that they start chatting around here.PM found multiple snippets from a podcast in which Zoe goes on to explain how she met alec, via DMs on twatter.
MARCH 2012Zoe doesn't specify when she gears up to go to Winnpeg to live with Alec in the zoe notes source.PM found, from archived tweets, that Zoe was preparing to go to Winnipeg around MarchWe can conclude that Zoe prepared to leave Toronto for Winnipeg in March
MARCH END / APRIL START 2012As above, zoe doesn't specify when she moves to WinnipegUsing dozens of archived tweets from Zoe's twitter, PM very reliably places the move date around this timeWe can conclude that Zoe moves from Toronto to Winnipeg around the start of April (if not the end of March)
APRIL START TO MID APRIL 2012During this period, zoe claims a bulk of things done by Alec in the zoe notes [paragraph 7] Part of Zoe's claims during this period is that Alec isolated her and locked her away from the 3 unnamed friends during this period.Around this time, Zoe and Alec appear together on a Podcast, explaining how they met on twitter, their relationship, and their project Not Ok Cupid (never released). Obviously, no mention of abuse happens on the podcast. Alec mentions that he spent some time on OK Cupid before meeting zoe. Hence the project. There are dozens and dozens of tweets detailing their time through-out april in Winnipeg. Including arranging a meet-up, shopping, and so on.We can conclude that Alec probably did not shut Zoe away and isolate her, at least for the most part, because they often tweeted about their movements. Assuming the tweets are true, for now.

NOTE: There's alot of say-so about Alec's mental instability (including gossip of his own posted in 2016). We can assume that he wasn't very stable. We can probably assume that the relationship wasn't all that easy, either.
MID APRIL 2012This is around the time (2 weeks later) that zoe would of moved back to Winnipeg after staying with Alec, as they supposedly agreed, according to the zoe notes source [zoe notes: paragraph 3] Zoe would by the ticket there, Alec would by her the ticket back. They were supposed to live in an "indie house" with 3 others (unnamed) this was what they agreed pre-zoe's-departure. She would claim to stay for a full monthThere's no real mention of the 2 week plan in the PM article.We can conclude that she definitely stayed longer than two weeks. What's debatable here is: was that the original plan? Was the "two week" plan a lie?
END OF APRIL/ MAY START 2012This is probably around where Zoe claims to have come back (one month later) using air miles provided to her by a friend, since Alec refused to buy her a flight back as they previously agreed. She claims to have flown back with no mention of other travels. As if escaping.The PM article has screencaps of a tweet dated May 2nd, that details a going to a Winnipeg meet up, then going to Montreal and Toronto (she heads to Toronto on the 4th)By Zoe's tweet, we can conclude that she did travel back to Toronto around a month later. She PROBABLY didn't use a friend's air miles to escape Winnipeg, as she obviously travelled to Montreal as well.
MAY 10th 2012-Is the last known tweet between Alec and Zoe, as detailed in the PM articleI can't conclude much here, apart from they stopped communicating. Could be because of the "amiable break up email" Zoe claimed to have sent after arriving back in Toronto
POST MAY 10th 2012In the zoe notes, she claims that here Alec "banned her from an indie gaming community he ran, banned himself, asked other industry leaders to help him commit suicide"None of this is detailed in the PM Article. But it does mention Alec's mental instability, and other people agreeing that he was suicidal.We can conclude that Alec is capable of lashing out like this given a history of instability.
We can perhaps conclude that the "community" in question is the indie meetup they arranged together called Windiepeg.
GAMERGATE START (earliest account, August 2014 ish, but we don't know what Zoe regards as the start of GG)Zoe claims that multiple people came forward with claims of Alec's abusive behavior.No mention of this in PM.We can conclude here that, using evidence of Alec's instability, that perhaps some people did contact Zoe about his behaviour. The 3 unnamed friends or one of the ~38 devs attending Windiepeg would be viable candidates
AUGUST 14th 2014Same claim as above, as this is around the same time.In a new article by PM (see third source above), DMs between Alec and an unknown colleague has surfaced, dated August 14th 2014. They go into detail about:
- Alec was scared to come forward about instances of Zoe's behaviour due to career backlash.
- During a party, Zoe got quickly drunk and flirted with multiple people. Later, she would complain to Alec about a woman flirting with her. Alec, in some attempt to dodge a fight with Zoe, suggested a solution. They fought any way, no surprise there.

- On the date that Zoe moves to Winnipeg (See row labelled MARCH END / APRIL START 2012). In the DMs Alex claims that he was in love with her around this time, and when the move was done they might go to couple counselling, in some attempt to keep the relationship together. Zoe was up for the idea at first. When Alec offers to pay for the counselling, Zoe is some what offended, but is more than likely just dodging the responsibility of paying for sessions and being defensive.
- In another DM, Alec expresses the opinion that those who view gamergate as a simple issue of sexism simply "arn't looking in detail." Probably drawing on his own experience of Zoe first hand. Later, he goes on to sum up the ordeal very succinctly with the phrase "It's not because she is a woman, it's because she is a shitty person." Aptly put, mate.
We can conclude that Alex regarded himself and Zoe as IN A RELATIONSHIP before Zoe moved to him. There is also NO mention of the "indie house" plan.

It's very obvious that Zoe was also a terrible partner in the relationship. That has always been obvious, but I didn't think it was to this extent. This is well within Zoe's character. It's easy to see just how difficult it was a relationship between the two of them, but it's a bit more skewed in Zoe's direction than before. We have yet to see solid evidence of the abuse from Alec's side. We've seen evidence of his instability, however, so it's doubtful he was squeaky clean as well. Saying that, we also know that Zoe has claimed abuse from assailants in just about every
combination and flavour. Lastly, we see that Alec puts some effort into making it a healthier relationship via counselling and great cost to himself.
-5 YEARS LATER--
August 28th 2019 (now)Zoe's statement about Alec's alleged abuse. Multiple people back her up in variable degrees, such as Laurie Pennie, and the other devs of Night in the Woods, to a very small degree Alec's sister alsoDuring this phase, Zoe deletes her twitter account only to reactivate it days later as "protected", someone archives lots of tweets and feeds them to PM, as part of the article. The article mentions that many tweets around the period specified in this timeline was DELETED, but managed to get screencapped in a video, sent to PM as part of the article.Alec commits suicide some time after. The vast majority of games news outlets just mention "died"; being unusually respectful. Zoe goes into twitter damage control, deleting tweets from the period with Alec, but she's too slow. The two other devs also delete their accounts, perhaps for the same reason. Though now their accounts are back online [1] [2]
TraceTheTong TraceTheTong The weaponized autism you've displayed here will not be forgotten. Great summary, man.

Edit: Is that guy who was gifting everyone a month of Gold still around?
 
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DeepEnigma

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I dont know who that Anna Writer is or what kind of site that is she posts too but I really think that's more effort put into investigating any of this than any that happened by most journalists during all of GG. Remember Briana Wu? Her story would fall apart if you even glanced int he direction of proof but no one does. That's what angers me about the whole situation. This whole No need to investigate any claims idea.
It's the people who WANT all of her claims to be true. Nobody is able to change their mind because they fully locked out any other sources. It's sad really...in my mind being able to admit you were wrong, listening to other peoples opinions and accepting critizism is a strong personal trait. however we know that these people are simply shitheads.
Most humans suffer from really bad bouts of cognitive dissonance protected by a hard layer of ego. Then there are people who are able to exploit that in others, and manipulate it for their own gain.

Combine that with social media amplifying the ago, feeling of importance in everyone; nobody wants to swallow that humble pie, no matter how wrong they are.

Humility is the scariest of things to first world comfort.
 
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Knivess

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Some interesting old tweets from ZQ regarding her involvement with the fine young capitalists project, for anyone unaware this was a project designed to encourage video game idea pitches from women with the majority of the profits going to charity.

ZQ blasted them for no apparent reason and seems she was involved in DDoS'ing their site as well. I'd say this certainly adds credence to her involvement in the recent DDoS on Thepostmillenial and leaks from KF. (Not suggesting she did this personally, doubt she could hack her way out of a wet paper bag with a chainsaw)


 
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Sleepydays

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It's fascinating to see how easy it is for sociopaths to exploit social justice or feminism. Almost as if it was a feature, and not a bug.
Slightly tangential, but I was thinking about this. Have the Woke Sorts ever rejected an attempt to play up to them, no matter how transparent or cynical it is? I've never seen a whole lot of push-back when establishment politicians and corporations put their hand up their collective skirt, even if they are demonstrably insincere in their alignment : Clinton, Starbucks, Disney, Sarkeesian and Quinn and the like.
 
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DeepEnigma

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Slightly tangential, but I was thinking about this. Have the Woke Sorts ever rejected an attempt to play up to them, no matter how transparent or cynical it is? I've never seen a whole lot of push-back when establishment politicians and corporations put their hand up their collective skirt, even if they are demonstrably insincere in their alignment : Clinton, Starbucks, Disney, Sarkeesian and Quinn and the like.
It is all about pushing the ideology forward, by any means.
 

tkscz

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Damn, these past 2 articles from TPM and Anna have been dynamite. Chelsea you sooooo bad.


More details and screencaps after the jump...

I just... wow. This has me believe that one chick a little more that Quinn stabbed a dude in the eye and hospitalized him (though she doesn't look like she'd make a good looking stripper). She seems like such a horrible person, someone really needs to stand up to her or they'll be more suicides under her belt.
 
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Sleepydays

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So can she face criminal charges for this? It has echoes of that recent case where a girl was shown to have encouraged her boyfriend to commit suicide and went to jail.
 

Dane

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So can she face criminal charges for this? It has echoes of that recent case where a girl was shown to have encouraged her boyfriend to commit suicide and went to jail.
She will be sentenced with community service at best.
 

monegames

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So can she face criminal charges for this? It has echoes of that recent case where a girl was shown to have encouraged her boyfriend to commit suicide and went to jail.
That girl was actively telling him to do it. I doubt there is anything to be done criminally. She could potentially get sued in civil court though.
 

captainraincoat

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That girl was actively telling him to do it. I doubt there is anything to be done criminally. She could potentially get sued in civil court though.
Would prefer for her to simply disappear.......I think the business model it and others have adopted is not sustainable and at some point they are going to have to get actual jobs

I would applaud the first person who drags one of these people/groups through the court system and would actually donate towards it

Gaming should never be about politics or ideals imo.....it’s an escape to a different world and just because that world is not to your liking doesn’t mean you should shit on it
 

ExpandKong

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She will be sentenced with community service at best.
She will offer to do her community service in the form of an informative videogame to be distributed freely. The judge will agree to this.

Zoe will create a kickstarter for Depression Quest 2. She will receive 2 million dollars for it from thirsty betas. She will never finish it, but will take a totally unrelated month-long trip to the Bahamas.

“Good for her,” they will say.
 

zeorhymer

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So can she face criminal charges for this? It has echoes of that recent case where a girl was shown to have encouraged her boyfriend to commit suicide and went to jail.
The best they can do is defamation through libel. Internet archives should be around. It's different than the other case because the girl was actively egging the guy on to kill himself.
 

DragoonKain

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It's the people who WANT all of her claims to be true. Nobody is able to change their mind because they fully locked out any other sources. It's sad really...in my mind being able to admit you were wrong, listening to other peoples opinions and accepting critizism is a strong personal trait. however we know that these people are simply shitheads.
Oh, they do. I've had this theory for a while now that the "woke" types want racism, bigotry, and sexism. I've said it before, it will justify their cries for victimhood and allow them to paint the world as this terrible place where everyone is bad. They blame the world and everyone in it for them being miserable and if stories like this turn out to be true they can go all "See, I told you! The world is awful and oppressive and it's all their fault my life sucks and this is more proof!"
 

nush

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I've done a little checking on the like/dislike ration of youtube videos that have gone up in the past few days with evidence that Zoe was lying. In almost all cases, the likes are in the thousands, but the dislikes are just in double digits. As has been suggested Zoe seems to have just a few people in positions that are controlling the narrative. The actual public opinion (by my unscientific analysis) seems to sway way the other way that she's a shitbag.
 

JSoup

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The pendulum is finally on it's way back.
This happens every time there is a controversy.
Opinions swing all the way in one direction for a while, something happens, opinions swing back.
Don't get too excited about people finally realizing she's human garbage. The next thing will cause the pendulum to just keep swinging until we're back to square one.
Humanity was a mistake.
 
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manfestival

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I haven't really been paying too much to any of this stuff after the few days of this story breaking. However, my news feed actually had something pop up. Not in the good way because it felt like WIRED was taking this and spinning it hard. Calling this the "tyranny of mens fragile egos" or something of that nature. I laughed at how clickbait and poor the title was but I imagine it was about this since it did mention the "gaming's me too movement"
 

Ladioss

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You wish. Outside of some pro-gg circles, the story may as well be already buried and forgotten.
 

Knivess

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Would prefer for her to simply disappear.......I think the business model it and others have adopted is not sustainable and at some point they are going to have to get actual jobs

I would applaud the first person who drags one of these people/groups through the court system and would actually donate towards it

Gaming should never be about politics or ideals imo.....it’s an escape to a different world and just because that world is not to your liking doesn’t mean you should shit on it
I'm not normally a fan of kick starters due to the number of borderline scams and the near total lack of accountability there seems to be on there but i gotta say if one of her victims started one for legal fees to sue her ass i think i'd donate generously.
 
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captainraincoat

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You wish. Outside of some pro-gg circles, the story may as well be already buried and forgotten.
There are still some pieces in play which we are gonna see within the next 2 weeks and technically she's still in hiding....once her Twitter profile is public again (which she is gonna need for more income) it's going to be open season
 

Stiflers Mom

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Damn, these past 2 articles from TPM and Anna have been dynamite. Chelsea you sooooo bad.


More details and screencaps after the jump...

I have been in a relationship with a woman acting like this.
It's so horrible.
 
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Doomtrain

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There are still some pieces in play which we are gonna see within the next 2 weeks and technically she's still in hiding....once her Twitter profile is public again (which she is gonna need for more income) it's going to be open season
Pieces in play?

Also, I genuinely hope people leave her alone if and when she opens her Twitter again. If anyone gives her any grief, she's just going t use it as more fodder (and it's poor form, either way.)
 

Hudo

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Pieces in play?

Also, I genuinely hope people leave her alone if and when she opens her Twitter again. If anyone gives her any grief, she's just going t use it as more fodder (and it's poor form, either way.)
That's how I see it as well. Don't give her any more attention. It seems that she somehow fuels herself (and her funds) by reactions to anything she says or does. So, the best way seems to be to let her "run dry", so to speak. That also gives her less stuff to spin a narrative around to. And incidentally, indifference seems to be the harshest form of punishment people like this can receive. I would also extend this to the rest of the developers of "Night in the Woods", as they clearly shouldn't be rewarded with money, seeing how poorly they have dealt with this whole situation, having thrown their colleague under the bus almost immediately.
 
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captainraincoat

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Pieces in play?

Also, I genuinely hope people leave her alone if and when she opens her Twitter again. If anyone gives her any grief, she's just going t use it as more fodder (and it's poor form, either way.)
I have zero sympathy .....the smart people will simply use the evidence and throw it back in her face at any opportunity

The dumb ones.....I don't think there is anyway to avoid it....she will probably dox herself and play victim again

If anything it's stopped another stupid witch hunt with #meetoo2 as the sheep are looking at the other paddocks.....give it a few weeks and they will crank this shit up again

The only real way to stop this sort of stuff is to start dragging people's asses to court and hold them accountable and the platforms that allow someone to publicly attack someone character in a public way without actual evidence or proof.
 
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hariseldon

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Remember how everyone knew Jimmy Savile was a paedophile but nobody could get anything to court and he somehow had enormous establishment protection (including from the BBC) while being presented as a really nice guy through charity stuff (where he was fucking kids) and Jim'll Fix It (where he was probably fucking kids)? The parallels should be obvious by now.
 

Doczu

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Remember how everyone knew Jimmy Savile was a paedophile but nobody could get anything to court and he somehow had enormous establishment protection (including from the BBC) while being presented as a really nice guy through charity stuff (where he was fucking kids) and Jim'll Fix It (where he was probably fucking kids)? The parallels should be obvious by now.
Wait, wait. You saying they are a pedo self-defence cabal?
 

nush

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Remember how everyone knew Jimmy Savile was a paedophile but nobody could get anything to court and he somehow had enormous establishment protection (including from the BBC) while being presented as a really nice guy through charity stuff (where he was fucking kids) and Jim'll Fix It (where he was probably fucking kids)? The parallels should be obvious by now.
When Saville dies there was the usual "RIP" topic on one forum. One poster dared to ask the question "Wasn't he supposed to be a pedo?" and was downvoted to the depths of hell. Only to be completely redeemed weeks later when the news broke.
 

hariseldon

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To be clear, I'm not implying paedophilia, rather just illustrating similar levels of protective structures around shitty behaviour.
 
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ROMhack

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Yeah you guys. Instead of doing that you should instead be retweeting pictures of cups with cartoon images on them like a real mature 47-year old man.

Spurious I know.
 
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Barnabot

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Hey, David .
Go on and make a new Twisted Metal game or even a clone instead of becoming Zoe Quinn's defense force. Zoey had opened that door. She's a big girl. She could go to the cops but she didn't.
 
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