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Drama Zoe Quinn #meToo / Alec Holowka suicide -- Update: Article questions ZQ's account of events (link in OP)

Halo is Dead

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So the responses have boiled down to a combination of:


1. Someone should take a moment and maybe analyze how these two things might be related. Its like reading antivaxxers and young earth creationists complain about being booted from science-themed facebook groups.

2. Anyway, Albertine Watson also came forward with similar, albeit less severe allegations against Holowka. Scott Benson also wrote that "...enough of the allegations are extremely plausible and just about all of it we've corroborated with other sources..."

3. so either Zoe Quinn, Watson, Benson, and for that matter Holowka's own family are lying as part of a massive feminazi/SJW conspiracy and just about every gaming website on the planet is in on it, or maybe, just maybe, the allegations are at least partially true.

4. Also you guys should maybe think about getting information from places that aren't kiwifarm.
1. No I don't believe it's "a conspiracy" and generally I don't give them the time of day. However, what I do believe is that many people within the gaming industry are shielding her because of their own ideology. They are more concerned with their own politics and how they look around their own peers by supporting #believewomen

2. Fist of all, his family DID NOT admit to the allegations, where did you pull that out of your ass? She simply stated that Alec battled with his own issues with mood and personality disorders which leads to unhealthy relationships which also many people on this forum agree with . I even stated before, Alec most likely had Borderline Personality Disorder. I don't doubt for a second their relationship turned toxic for the both of them.

3. Most people are not denying there might be some truth but the facts that you seem comfortable to ignore is that most of the big allegations she laid out were proved false by her own words on Twitter years ago, but I guess she just forgot about those little details. Also, that pathetic hit piece Scott pulled out says a lot more about his lack of character than it dose Alec. Finally, yes, most gaming publications simply wont talk about the new evidence brought to light by the post millennial because almost all of them backed her during Gamer Gate.

4. WTF is kiwifarm?
 

ExpandKong

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Of course its nothing new. I know several posters here already carefully partially digested everything that has come out and then spewed it back out as some rank conspiracy theory bolus.

Its obvious how you've gotten here, because almost every stupid conspiracy follows this same pattern.

1. Zoe Quinn MUST be wrong.
2. By extension, Holowka must be innocent
3. Further, anyone else who makes an accusation against Holowka must also be wrong, because of Zoe Quinn
4. Any new piece of information or evidence supporting or corroborating any of Holowka's accusers must be fabricated.
5. The more outlets there are citing said evidence or information, the greater and more powerful the pro-Quinn conspiracy is. This includes Holowka's own family
6. Any information to the contrary written by some random bumblefuck found on 4chan or reddit must then be true.

Its the same shit as the Seth Rich conspiracy theory, or climate deniers, flat earthers, antivaxxers, etc etc etc, moving further and further away from the very simple possibility that Holowka was guilty of at least SOME of the accusations against him, and then he killed himself because of it.

Here's something simple.

Sexual assault allegations can be easy to fake, but its EXTREMELY hard to get other people to go along with them. Check out how well that went for Jacob Wohl trying to fabricate SA allegations against Robert Mueller and Pete Buttigeg, or James O'Keeffe trying to sneak a fake SA allegation against Roy Moore into the Washington Post. They fall apart instantly.
Pretty sure most of the people posting ITT (I’ve only popped in every couple pages to shitpost so idk for sure) have said the full truth is probably somewhere in the middle - haven’t seen anybody claim Holowka’s a perfect angel.
 

Shai-Tan

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Mar 16, 2009
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So the responses have boiled down to a combination of:
1. It actually is a conspiracy theory!
and
2. I can't understand why I'm not allowed to question this on other forums.

Someone should take a moment and maybe analyze how these two things might be related. Its like reading antivaxxers and young earth creationists complain about being booted from science-themed facebook groups.

Anyway, Albertine Watson also came forward with similar, albeit less severe allegations against Holowka. Scott Benson also wrote that "...enough of the allegations are extremely plausible and just about all of it we've corroborated with other sources..."

So either Zoe Quinn, Watson, Benson, and for that matter Holowka's own family are lying as part of a massive feminazi/SJW conspiracy and just about every gaming website on the planet is in on it, or maybe, just maybe, the allegations are at least partially true.

Also you guys should maybe think about getting information from places that aren't kiwifarm.




Living a life outside of the neogaf forums = NPC bot. Holy fuck you need to go outside once in a while. Like, seriously, I was away from the forum for 9 hours. Are you one of those people who got super triggered when the WHO declared that excessive gaming disorder was a public health concern because you felt personally attacked or something?

This tendency has been labelled "the paranoid style in American politics" (see also Sophia Rosenfeld's Democracy and Truth for background). I've called it out repeatedly in threads like this -and have here, only a page or two back - but emergent opinion is what it is - people with more extreme opinions tend to post more and there's likely a feedback effect causing some people to become more extreme in their opinions and others to exit discussion, exasperated by repetition of insinuation and speculation into "evidence" via co-rumination that rolls over reasoned critiques like speed bumps

That said there's another tendency that we might call "the smug style in American politics" and your post is dripping in it. Let's just say the opinions you take excessive pride in aren't as smart or as well thought out as you think they are.
 

captainraincoat

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Of course its nothing new. I know several posters here already carefully partially digested everything that has come out and then spewed it back out as some rank conspiracy theory bolus.

Its obvious how you've gotten here, because almost every stupid conspiracy follows this same pattern.

1. Zoe Quinn MUST be wrong.
2. By extension, Holowka must be innocent
3. Further, anyone else who makes an accusation against Holowka must also be wrong, because of Zoe Quinn
4. Any new piece of information or evidence supporting or corroborating any of Holowka's accusers must be fabricated.
5. The more outlets there are citing said evidence or information, the greater and more powerful the pro-Quinn conspiracy is. This includes Holowka's own family
6. Any information to the contrary written by some random bumblefuck found on 4chan or reddit must then be true.

Its the same shit as the Seth Rich conspiracy theory, or climate deniers, flat earthers, antivaxxers, etc etc etc, moving further and further away from the very simple possibility that Holowka was guilty of at least SOME of the accusations against him, and then he killed himself because of it.

Here's something simple.

Sexual assault allegations can be easy to fake, but its EXTREMELY hard to get other people to go along with them. Check out how well that went for Jacob Wohl trying to fabricate SA allegations against Robert Mueller and Pete Buttigeg, or James O'Keeffe trying to sneak a fake SA allegation against Roy Moore into the Washington Post. They fall apart instantly.
 
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Benson and Alec's sister (Alec's sister does not constitute his whole family) can do no more than lend character references because like any other nobody on the planet, they weren't present for what allegedly happened.

Sure. Some people are overreacting and claiming this is a far-reaching, delicately planned conspiracy, but well connected people who get away with things have existed in the past and they continue to exist now. It seems like you are hiding behind some of the more ridiculous claims in this thread so you don't have to engage with the more sensible ones.

That you are casting the concept of well-connected people with clout in with antivaxxers and young earth creationists is absurd. I am not sure what you hope this argument will achieve other than making you look ridiculous and gullible.
Sure, Fine, I'd be willing to admit that I don't find Quinn to be trustworthy in of herself and if this was JUST Quinn vs Holowka, I'd probably give the whole situation a raised eyebrow and I wouldn't have bothered engaging in this thread. The fact is though, this isn't just Quinn. Its not just Austin Walker and Patrick Klepek backing her up either. Holowka wasn't a figure primed for a coordinated conspiracy attack, and the story has at least some support from sources who don't owe her anything. Arguing to the contrary on the latter point; that almost the entire games media has her back out of loyalty, including Benson and Holowka's sister, is delving back into the stupid conspiracy zone.

At least with the Brett Kavanaugh accusations, I could at least see the logic of the conspiracy theory argument; that he was a prime target for said conspiracy and there were clear, obvious and critically important motivations for 3rd parties to try and sabotage a conservative supreme court nominee.
Holowka though? What did he do? What is there to gain by this conspiracy other than getting Quinn more twitter followers or whatever?
 

DunDunDunpachi

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Apr 18, 2018
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Of course its nothing new. I know several posters here already carefully partially digested everything that has come out and then spewed it back out as some rank conspiracy theory bolus.

Its obvious how you've gotten here, because almost every stupid conspiracy follows this same pattern.

1. Zoe Quinn MUST be wrong.
2. By extension, Holowka must be innocent
3. Further, anyone else who makes an accusation against Holowka must also be wrong, because of Zoe Quinn
4. Any new piece of information or evidence supporting or corroborating any of Holowka's accusers must be fabricated.
5. The more outlets there are citing said evidence or information, the greater and more powerful the pro-Quinn conspiracy is. This includes Holowka's own family
6. Any information to the contrary written by some random bumblefuck found on 4chan or reddit must then be true.

Its the same shit as the Seth Rich conspiracy theory, or climate deniers, flat earthers, antivaxxers, etc etc etc, moving further and further away from the very simple possibility that Holowka was guilty of at least SOME of the accusations against him, and then he killed himself because of it.

Here's something simple.

Sexual assault allegations can be easy to fake, but its EXTREMELY hard to get other people to go along with them. Check out how well that went for Jacob Wohl trying to fabricate SA allegations against Robert Mueller and Pete Buttigeg, or James O'Keeffe trying to sneak a fake SA allegation against Roy Moore into the Washington Post. They fall apart instantly.
That's a lot of mind reading on your part. Sounds like some Qanon shit.
 
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Come On Tars

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This reminds me of the possibility that in high school it's not the jocks having the most sex, it's the weird goth uggos banging eachother. And since then some of them make our games now and we are wrapped in their hateful disgusting drama.
 
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Pretty sure most of the people posting ITT (I’ve only popped in every couple pages to shitpost so idk for sure) have said the full truth is probably somewhere in the middle - haven’t seen anybody claim Holowka’s a perfect angel.
I'd be willing to believe that; Holowka made a very bad mistake and probably needed consoling to get better, and also Quinn isn't completely transparent and forthcoming with all of the facts.

That then turns to an almost equally bad implication for the way this thread has been going; Because Alec killed himself, its now Watson's and Quinn's fault that he's dead and they should be blamed for "murdering" him, regardless of the truth value of the accusations.
 

AntiCap

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Sure, Fine, I'd be willing to admit that I don't find Quinn to be trustworthy in of herself and if this was JUST Quinn vs Holowka, I'd probably give the whole situation a raised eyebrow and I wouldn't have bothered engaging in this thread. The fact is though, this isn't just Quinn. Its not just Austin Walker and Patrick Klepek backing her up either. Holowka wasn't a figure primed for a coordinated conspiracy attack, and the story has at least some support from sources who don't owe her anything. Arguing to the contrary on the latter point; that almost the entire games media has her back out of loyalty, including Benson and Holowka's sister, is delving back into the stupid conspiracy zone.

At least with the Brett Kavanaugh accusations, I could at least see the logic of the conspiracy theory argument; that he was a prime target for said conspiracy and there were clear, obvious and critically important motivations for 3rd parties to try and sabotage a conservative supreme court nominee.
Holowka though? What did he do? What is there to gain by this conspiracy other than getting Quinn more twitter followers or whatever?
The light in which your casting it makes it sound like conspiracy stuff, but I think it's much simpler. Games media is not calling Zoe out, because her politics align with theirs. It's the same reason right-wing media are constantly calling her and others out, even when it makes no sense. It's just petty politics. Further to that, back when Gamergate broke out, most of games media had her back. It'd look bad to withdraw support for her now. You don't need some far-reaching conspiracy theory to explain it.

And to me, the matter isn't about who is right and who is wrong. Myself, and a lot of the people in this thread have agreed that Alec was probably a bit of a cunt. The problem is how recklessly this was handled by a person who really should know how dangerous internet hatemobs can be. It's not about whether Alec truly was abusive or not. It's about how the recklessness and media trials drove a man to suicide.
 
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MagnesG

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Lol conspiracy theories -> conspiracy theories -> conspiracy theories.

People are stretching out but never confidently assume it's the truth, you just believe what your mind had been bullshitting isn't it? Or am I generalizing too?

Also when did people said Holowka is innocent?
 

captainraincoat

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I'd be willing to believe that; Holowka made a very bad mistake and probably needed consoling to get better, and also Quinn isn't completely transparent and forthcoming with all of the facts.

That then turns to an almost equally bad implication for the way this thread has been going; Because Alec killed himself, its now Watson's and Quinn's fault that he's dead and they should be blamed for "murdering" him, regardless of the truth value of the accusations.
i think the anger is more directed at the sjw/cancel culture in general and not some giant conspiracy...Alecs death was unfortunately a flash point
the fact that people like Quin and co throw out weaponized tweets like this without actual consequence in the name of #meetoo and people dogpile on this shit and ruin people lives
Quin is a manipulator and people are simply calling her out for her shit and while it looks like a conspiracy when you start casting your eye over the stuff that is coming out...where there is smoke there is almost always fire

  • Dont you think its odd that many major places that love clickbait articles have not touched this...the ones that do are suddenly silenced?
  • Websites that are associated with digging out the truth suddenly get DOS attacked
  • Tweets by certain people are getting deleted


Meanwhile discussion on resetra

 
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ExpandKong

Barlog's Bestie
Jan 9, 2018
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I'd be willing to believe that; Holowka made a very bad mistake and probably needed consoling to get better, and also Quinn isn't completely transparent and forthcoming with all of the facts.

That then turns to an almost equally bad implication for the way this thread has been going; Because Alec killed himself, its now Watson's and Quinn's fault that he's dead and they should be blamed for "murdering" him, regardless of the truth value of the accusations.
See, I dunno. I’m not sure who Watson is (probably need to catch up) but the fact is Zoe didn’t go to the police with her story - she went to the court of public opinion. And they tried him and sentenced him with extreme prejudice; he lost his job and the publisher of A Night in the Woods hinted at the fact that they were looking into ways to legally cut him out of receiving royalties for future sales of the game. All this without anyone getting Alec’s side of things or asking Zoe for elaboration.

Then he killed himself, and now that people are really starting to question the timeline of events and the veracity of Zoe’s claims - using her own tweets from the time this was all taking place as well as verified messages from Alec himself - now she doesn’t want to talk about her ordeal?

Didn’t she come out with all this to start a movement? Gaming’s MeToo moment? Isn’t it kind of odd that she went from “We will be heard!” to “I don’t ever want to talk about this again” once people started to scrutinize her story at all?

Alec’s death was not demanded by the Social Justice System, but the loss of everything he worked for was. If Zoe’s allegations are exaggerated or untrue, her sentence should be the same.

Hopefully her deal with DC is just their way of quickly closing out a pre-existing contract and Zoe is allowed to fade blissfully into obscurity afterwards.
 

Miku Miku

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Jan 13, 2018
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I'd be willing to believe that; Holowka made a very bad mistake and probably needed consoling to get better, and also Quinn isn't completely transparent and forthcoming with all of the facts.

That then turns to an almost equally bad implication for the way this thread has been going; Because Alec killed himself, its now Watson's and Quinn's fault that he's dead and they should be blamed for "murdering" him, regardless of the truth value of the accusations.
Pretty much this whole thread believed he did most of the things he was accused of. It was years ago, and Quinn herself said he apologized and then got extensive professional help and grew as a person. Most here were shocked that she would take a matter that seemed resolved for years, a matter she didn't go to the police with in any way, and instead she would dredge it up years later in the middle of "gaming's me too" so she could publicize her ancient victimhood and get twitter points. And that cost a man his entire career and directly led him to kill himself. All of that is a straight up fact. No due process. Just literally got on twitter and networked with hundreds of thousands of people to ruin someone's life.

Me personally, I was focused on Scott and how quickly they dropped their coworker and threw him directly under the bus and denounced him, and then wrote multiple hit pieces on him - some, right after he died. I was also shocked by his sister, who wrote more hit pieces on him, directly after he died. If you haven't seen, his sister is some kind of phD candidate in social justice / feminist studies, and literally is putting the listen and believe women angle over defending her own brother for half a second.

The only time people here started questioning that any of the abuse happened is after that post millenial article used her own tweets to show repeated lies from her. And then you add that to her previous history of lies on a ton of issues and you have to seriously question that any of it is believable when it's a one sided accusation from several years prior, and multiple key points are proven false, and your only witness talking is a proven pathological liar.

As far as any media conspiracy, that's the least significant and the least interesting aspect of any of this. The media have always pushed this side politically for the last several years. That's not a conspiracy, it is just a fact. They didn't investigate anything. It's literally just their default response because of their ideology, let alone their personal friendships with Zoe leading to undisclosed biased coverage - again.
 

nush

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i think the anger is more directed at the sjw/cancel culture in general and not some giant conspiracy...Alecs death was unfortunately a flash point
the fact that people like Quin and co throw out weaponized tweets like this without actual consequence in the name of #meetoo and people dogpile on this shit and ruin people lives
Quin is a manipulator and people are simply calling her out for her shit and while it looks like a conspiracy when you start casting your eye over the stuff that is coming out...where there is smoke there is almost always fire

  • Dont you think its odd that many major places that love clickbait articles have not touched this...the ones that do are suddenly silenced?
  • Websites that are associated with digging out the truth suddenly get DOS attacked
  • Tweets by certain people are getting deleted


Meanwhile discussion on resetra

It's amusing to watch them flap around as soon as they are asked for receipts. They've been in the bubble protected by mods and supported by a singular groupthink mob so long that their debate skills have long gone or were never developed to start with.
 

Bitmap Frogs

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Here's something simple.

Sexual assault allegations can be easy to fake, but its EXTREMELY hard to get other people to go along with them. Check out how well that went for Jacob Wohl trying to fabricate SA allegations against Robert Mueller and Pete Buttigeg, or James O'Keeffe trying to sneak a fake SA allegation against Roy Moore into the Washington Post. They fall apart instantly.
Here is something simpler:

The allegations against Signore were false, yet everyone took them for true.

The allegations concerning minors against ProJared were false, yet everyone took them for true.

Lots of people went along for both allegations because after all accusations have become proof these days. Who knows how many other accused people who've had their life ruined didn't have the luck to have direct proof against the allegations.

These days people get insulted for even asking for evidence whenever these allegations come up.

Specifically in Holowka's case, the archived tweets cast some serious doubt but he's no longer alive and they merit being examined, which no one is doing because #believethewomen and #accusationsareproof have become mantras for the left and going against that has consequences.

Mob Justice is never, ever, right even if it sometimes hits the right target. We have a long list of examples of mob justice gone wrong and I cannot understand how mob justice has become endorsed by the left.
 

nush

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These days people get insulted for even asking for evidence whenever these allegations come up.

Specifically in Holowka's case, the archived tweets cast some serious doubt but he's no longer alive and they merit being examined, which no one is doing because #believethewomen and #accusationsareproof have become mantras for the left and going against that has consequences.
 

Shai-Tan

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One of the lessons from Jon Ronson’s book So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed is that the “mob outrage” is fueled by a pile on of people “just sharing their opinion”. His suggestion is that we should maybe think twice about doing so if we don’t have anything constructive to say that wasn’t already said.

Threads like this are ”mob justice”.
 

Bitmap Frogs

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One of the lessons from Jon Ronson’s book So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed is that the “mob outrage” is fueled by a pile on of people “just sharing their opinion”. His suggestion is that we should maybe think twice about doing so if we don’t have anything constructive to say that wasn’t already said.

Threads like this are ”mob justice”.
That's a false equivalence.

Your arguing that presenting an accusation without proof and demanding proof are the same thing on the basis that in both instances it's just people "having an opinion".

You also assume his conclusions as true and project them without first debating the merit of his conclusions.
 
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Kittehkraken

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One of the lessons from Jon Ronson’s book So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed is that the “mob outrage” is fueled by a pile on of people “just sharing their opinion”. His suggestion is that we should maybe think twice about doing so if we don’t have anything constructive to say that wasn’t already said.

Threads like this are ”mob justice”.
Mob justice would be NeoGAF members undertaking a campaign to ruin her life and career by any means necessary. Neither of those things are happening.
 
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I should've seen this coming... Guess they don't want my sub money anymore so be it.
I've enjoyed my best gb days up to 2014. After that content recently stopped capturing my interest as it used to. Quick looks are terrible and uninformed (like recent Blasphemous quick look) and there are a lot of other issues like questionable staff hires but that is for another topic.
And now after reading many pages back into this thread - I am repulsed even looking at her in that video. Lol she sure knows how to get around without achieving much though. Cannot deny her that...
Yeah 2014 was weirdly a watershed year. The best description I read of it came from a comment from a Vice article where they interviewed Zoe Quinn about her (still not released) FMV game. It said something along the lines of, "I still have no idea what gamergate is, all I know is that this site went to shit shortly after it happened." About a month later the comments section on all Vice articles was removed and all comments left prior were deleted. I think that pretty much sums it up.
 

Blessed Barry

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Sep 14, 2019
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I made this account because I had to say something , somewhere, it really makes me angry how it was apparently not enough to drive the guy to suicide, now to defend Zoe Quinn social justice types are spreading the most vile lies about him everywhere I look , for example " His own family and friends confirmed he was a rapist ".

Which is absolutely not true, NO ONE EVER has confirmed Zoe's accusations , no one has said that they knew that he did this to other women, no other woman has ever come forth saying he did this to her.

They're trying to claim that Scott's inane rantings about how bad Alec was as business partner because he has psychological issues, like they somehow corroborate Zoe's claims about her being trapped in his apartment for a month and someone had to fly in and save her. Like it all somehow ties together under the banner of "abuse", he was mean to his coworkers that means he must have been a rapist. NO IT DOESN'T. It's just so vile and dishonest, STOP FFS.
 

captainraincoat

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Mob justice would be NeoGAF members undertaking a campaign to ruin her life and career by any means necessary. Neither of those things are happening.
Which forum has admins that go out of their way to directly harrass people and try and drag the lynch mobs with them


That was just a quick Google search
I seem to remember some furore a while back when Hecht got hold of a game developers details and went on a social justice crusade

These are the admins.....the leaders of the site,They also have your personal details and most likely your work email
 
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See, I dunno. I’m not sure who Watson is (probably need to catch up) but the fact is Zoe didn’t go to the police with her story - she went to the court of public opinion. And they tried him and sentenced him with extreme prejudice; he lost his job and the publisher of A Night in the Woods hinted at the fact that they were looking into ways to legally cut him out of receiving royalties for future sales of the game. All this without anyone getting Alec’s side of things or asking Zoe for elaboration.
You don't know who Albertine Watson is becuase they made a statement corroborating that Alec Holowka was indeed, a bit of a dick to work with. This was posted 1 day before his suicide. Since then she's completely locked down her twitter and this statement was made private:






Just getting you up to speed. Again this was one day before the suicide and she's locked down her social media since. I will leave you with this without any further comment.
 
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MagnesG

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Apr 20, 2019
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You don't know who Albertine Watson is becuase they made a statement corroborating that Alec Holowka was indeed, a bit of a dick to work with. This was posted 1 day before his suicide. Since then she's completely locked down her twitter and this statement was made private:






Just getting you up to speed. Again this was one day before the suicide and she's locked down her social media since. I will leave you with this with any further comment.
So again about as much as I expected working with people who had mental issues, plus on a tight working environment. Seems like a wake up call for the reality of this industry.

And again, she wholefully believed Zoe, that was just sad. I guess no one told her either? Personally I am mad when people having are these behavior, I'm done giving cynical comments.

Just pathetic. But a little bit of sympathy. Ugh.
 
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Blessed Barry

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Sep 14, 2019
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You don't know who Albertine Watson is becuase they made a statement corroborating that Alec Holowka was indeed, a bit of a dick to work with.
This is the exact same thing as Scott, so much so that it's scary. Wall of text of inane words about the "abuse" she "survived" and the most egregious example she could find is that she had to stop saying "Mhhhm" because he told her he was annoying. And like Scott, I bet she never confronted him about him being a dick and like Scott she probably talked about it behind his back. There's just something way off about these people.

I will leave you with this with any further comment.
I feel about this like I explained in the previous post. Him being a bad coworker doesn't corroborate,doesn't confirm that he's capable of doing what Zoe claims he did to her.
 

ExpandKong

Barlog's Bestie
Jan 9, 2018
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You don't know who Albertine Watson is becuase they made a statement corroborating that Alec Holowka was indeed, a bit of a dick to work with. This was posted 1 day before his suicide. Since then she's completely locked down her twitter and this statement was made private:






Just getting you up to speed. Again this was one day before the suicide and she's locked down her social media since. I will leave you with this without any further comment.
Thank you for sharing that.

I’ve got to say, though, again...the timing is convenient. At a time before he killed himself, when the company was doing all they could to cut ties with him as fast as possible, here comes a coworker with another #metoo to try and push that distance out even further.

I dunno. Maybe it’s all true. Maybe Alec was that exact combination of supremely talented and utterly terrifying that would keep industry newbies in his orbit to further their careers in spite of the mental anguish it caused them. I can’t say - I’ve never played NITW, and now I never will because I can’t justify giving money to the company after seeing how they went out of their way to metaphorically spit on the grave of a dead man.

But all that her story corroborates is that Alec had mental issues and was probably a dick to work with. Which again, nobody here is contesting.
 
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Durask

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Zoe Quinn is an amateur.



In the case of Pacetti, the allegedly victimized woman was none other than Moore herself. She apparently had agreed to spend the night with Pacetti in his hotel room. Upon arrival, as Moore herself described the liaison, she gave Pacetti a condom and then went into the bathroom. While in the bathroom, she claims, she had a flashback to an earlier time in her life when, she says, she had been sexually assaulted. This flashback apparently did not prevent her from having sex with Pacetti, but she reports that the sudden onset of anxiety rendered her psychologically inert in a way that somehow made the ensuing encounter less than consensual. On this odd basis did Moore accuse Pacetti of sexual impropriety, and on this odd basis did the Prime Minister of Canada end the career of one of his MPs.
 
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Blessed Barry

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But all that her story corroborates is that Alec had mental issues and was probably a dick to work with. Which again, nobody here is contesting.
So Scott a day after Alec died writes this million word post where it's all from his POV and there's no Alec to defend himself he concludes "I survived Alec" like he was some victim but to me he made the case that Alec with all his issues was the more normal of the two.

According to Scot Bensons ( NitW artist ) blog, Scot never confronted Alec that he was being a dick. Instead he fed his paranoia by creating fake accounts and talking about him behind his back. When Alec saw this instead of being mad he promised he would change and stop, and he did stop , again according to Scot's blog.

I don't even believe Alec was an asshole, he was just mentally unstable and probably unaware that he sometimes made people uncomfortable. But because these SJW workplaces can't function normally, neither Scott nor Albertine confronted him about it, instead they keep it bottled up so they can write a wall of text a few years later how they survived being told to stop saying "Mhhhm".
 
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So Scott a day after Alec died writes this million word post where it's all from his POV and there's no Alec to defend himself he concludes "I survived Alec" like he was some victim but to me he made the case that Alec with all his issues was the more normal of the two.

According to Scot Bensons ( NitW artist ) blog, Scot never confronted Alec that he was being a dick. Instead he fed his paranoia by creating fake accounts and talking about him behind his back. When Alec saw this instead of being mad he promised he would change and stop, and he did stop , again according to Scot's blog.

I don't even believe Alec was an asshole, he was just mentally unstable and probably unaware that he sometimes made people uncomfortable. But because these SJW workplaces can't function normally, neither Scott nor Albertine confronted him about it, instead they keep it bottled up so they can write a wall of text a few years later how they survived being told to stop saying "Mhhhm".
I do agree somewhat but in Albertine Watson's defence she posted her 'wall of text' before Alec Holowka died. When it was about showing solidarity with what was already being termed "Gaming's #MeToo moment," and it was about corroborating parts of Zoe Quinn's account. She's locked her twitter since so who knows how she actually feels about what's transpired, she possibly feels utterly awful about it. Or maybe not - we don't know.

Despite its similarities there is a big difference between this and Scott Benson's post. Benson wrote his wanky account of how he'd 'survived' Alec Holowka and had PTSD from working 7 hour days (which he then scrubbed from his post after the internet at large made fun of him) after Alec Holowka died. And what's worse he published his 'woe is me' story before Alec's body was even cold. I have little to no respect for Scott Benson due to the way he acted and the way he tried to paint himself as the victim shortly after the guy's suicide. On the other hand Watson wrote her 'woe-is-me' story when Alec was still alive, I have more sympathy for her because of that.
 

Blessed Barry

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I do agree somewhat but in Albertine Watson's defence she posted her 'wall of text' before Alec Holowka died. When it was about showing solidarity with what was already being termed "Gaming's #MeToo moment," and it was about corroborating parts of Zoe Quinn's account. She's locked her twitter since so who knows how she actually feels about what's transpired, she possibly feels utterly awful about it. Or maybe not - we don't know.

Despite its similarities there is a big difference between this and Scott Benson's post. Benson wrote his wanky account of how he'd 'survived' Alec Holowka and had PTSD from working 7 hour days (which he then scrubbed from his post after the internet at large made fun of him) after Alec Holowka died. And what's worse he published his 'woe is me' story before Alec's body was even cold. I have little to no respect for Scott Benson due to the way he acted and the way he tried to paint himself as the victim shortly after the guy's suicide. On the other hand Watson wrote her 'woe-is-me' story when Alec was still alive, I have more sympathy for her because of that.
Yes , upon re-reading it carefully she did have actual grievances against Alec, and it's sad they weren't able to handle it between them or handle it on a team level. when he was alive. It's never a good idea to pursue workplace romance.

But I still don't think it corroborates Zoe Quins account in any way, especially the worst parts.
 
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Yes , upon re-reading it carefully she did have actual grievances against Alec, and it's sad they weren't able to handle it between them or handle it on a team level. when he was alive. It's never a good idea to pursue workplace romance.

But I still don't think it corroborates Zoe Quins account in any way, especially the worst parts.
It corroborates one thing: that Alec Holowka may have flipped out at Zoe at some point for saying 'Hello' in the wrong tone of voice. Whether or not that actually happened is unconfirmed but it gives some credence to that part of Zoe's statement.

However you are right that the worst parts of Quinn's accusations have seen no confirmation from any of the other statements. None of the other posts detail any sexual assault or misconduct. Admittedly Watson's account comes closest, mentioning that she rejected his romantic advances following which his behaviour around her got more erratic and dickish. However that's still a world away from serious sexual assault. The only source who's claimed that they've been sexually assaulted by Alec Holowka is still so far Zoe Quinn herself. All these all other statements really only say that Holowka was a bit of dick to work with and possibly had some mental health issues. They don't lend any corroboration to Quinn's account of sexual abuse.

And of course, as has been covered extensively over the course of the last 70 pages, there is an entire novels-worth of evidence that Chelsea Van Valkenburg has a habit of borderline,"pathological lying," to quote Alec Holowka himself.
 
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this zq probablly has too much dirt on most of this general gaming journalist, nobody is willing to expose her beside some side journalists, may alec rest in peace, this will all get thinner within a month and the most annoying part to me still calling this bitch a " gaming developer".
 
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Doomtrain

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It's insane how fragile these people act. I'm a man and I've been working in games for a long time. I've dealt with *much* worse than either Scott or Albertine are detailing here, and probably just about everyone in the industry has. Everything they're describing is fairly standard interpersonal drama that comes from working on a project for a long time with a small team.

Was Alec difficult to work with sometimes? I don't know, maybe. Scott and Albertine seem to think so, and that's fair enough, I guess. But it's also none of my business. It's no one's business except theirs. I've dealt with tons of difficult coworkers. To other people, I've probably *been* that difficult coworker. I do my best, but I'm not perfect, and no one is. We're all human. We all get frustrated and have personality clashes sometimes.

One thing that I think is telling about Zoe, Scott, and Albertine's accounts is that they all reference Alec getting frustrated with them. They each attempt to use this as a cudgel, as if him being frustrated with them indicates some sort of huge, glaring character flaw on his part. Not one of them turns that lens inward and wonders if maybe his frustration was valid, and what *they* could have done. Ironically, they're attacking him for expressing his own feelings of frustration... in their own essays expressing their frustration.

Even taking these accounts entirely at face value, the worst thing Benson and Watson can level at Holowka is that he was moody, occasionally aloof, and occasionally rude (and in Benson's case, he seems frustrated that Alec pushed him to work almost-standard hour work days, which is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard). Watson alleges that he made some kind of romantic advance on her and then stopped when she told him not to. I'm not saying these are good qualities. I'm sure Holowka was no saint; that much, I believe. But they're not crimes, either. If anything, they're fairly mundane. Many of these things, in one form or another, are probably things they themselves have done to others.

If the mood struck me, I could write similar petty diatribes about lots of my old bosses and coworkers (many of whom have been women, for whatever that's worth). I'm not going to, because I'm an adult, I handled my own shit, and I recognize that other people have their own problems and they don't need to hear about my interpersonal drama from years ago. I also recognize that there are two sides to every story, and that even my old coworkers who annoyed me don't deserve to have their every failing blasted onto the internet for total strangers to see.

I'd never heard of a lot of these people before this, so I don't particularly have a dog in this fight. I'd like to think I've approached it with an open mind. But every single time one of them has written more on the subject, I've become less and less convinced that they're victims. They don't sound brave or beaten-down. They sound entitled. I wish them all the best. I get that they're probably dealing with a lot of heavy shit right now, and that there are also a lot of assholes on the internet who want to attack them for it. That's not okay. But neither is enabling them.
 

Knivess

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Sep 10, 2019
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Of course its nothing new. I know several posters here already carefully partially digested everything that has come out and then spewed it back out as some rank conspiracy theory bolus.

Its obvious how you've gotten here, because almost every stupid conspiracy follows this same pattern.

1. Zoe Quinn MUST be wrong.
2. By extension, Holowka must be innocent
3. Further, anyone else who makes an accusation against Holowka must also be wrong, because of Zoe Quinn
4. Any new piece of information or evidence supporting or corroborating any of Holowka's accusers must be fabricated.
5. The more outlets there are citing said evidence or information, the greater and more powerful the pro-Quinn conspiracy is. This includes Holowka's own family
6. Any information to the contrary written by some random bumblefuck found on 4chan or reddit must then be true.

Its the same shit as the Seth Rich conspiracy theory, or climate deniers, flat earthers, antivaxxers, etc etc etc, moving further and further away from the very simple possibility that Holowka was guilty of at least SOME of the accusations against him, and then he killed himself because of it.

Here's something simple.

Sexual assault allegations can be easy to fake, but its EXTREMELY hard to get other people to go along with them. Check out how well that went for Jacob Wohl trying to fabricate SA allegations against Robert Mueller and Pete Buttigeg, or James O'Keeffe trying to sneak a fake SA allegation against Roy Moore into the Washington Post. They fall apart instantly.
Yeah well there's something in common with the two allegations you mention, although you'll no doubt call it a conspiracy theory however the two people you mentioned were both men. We live in the age of #belivewomen not #believemen. The fact is false allegations are not at all difficult to get traction on in the current climate, all you have to do is open your eyes to see that, in the #metoo age (which for the record i was completely in support of to start with), a large part of society treats allegations as truths. Hell all ZQ had to do was send 1 tweet with no evidence whatsoever and the guy was crucified by her mob, exactly what part of that is extremely difficult?

Look i'm not honestly sure you're worth replying to because its painfully obvious you haven't done much research on this subject. To say that all our conclusions are predicated on "Zoe must be wrong, therefore Alec must be right" is very disingenuous, it's true her past lack of credibility is what lead many people to doubt her allegations in the first place and look more closely into them. However it is not the reason why most of us have become convinced that she's lying. I'm convinced of that because of her very own words from previous tweets during the time which COMPLETELY contradict her own story.

As for accepting any evidence against her without question, thats simply wrong. If you'll read back shortly before you commented, you'll see myself and others immediately called out that fake DM. I don't take even the legit private DM's from Alec at face value actually, they are what they are which is an insight into his view on the subject but nothing more. However ZQ's tweets directly contradict her version of events, tweets which can be referenced against those of her friends and colleagues from the same time to form a consistent picture.

Does this prove Alec was an angel? No, i don't think a single person has claimed that. Does it prove he never abused her in any way? No, but this combined with her extremely sketchy record of lies and trigger happy false accusations should at the very least give any reasonable person pause before simply taking her word at it.

Finally, in regards to Scott Bensons testimony, he gave testimony of precisely jack shit besides vague rumours he'd heard of people not wanting to be around Alec, hell Alec admits his own problems himself. Scott never once mentioned having seen or heard any allegations of physical or sexual abuse whatsoever before ZQ's. His entire rant against Alec came across as nothing more than the whining and self-pitying of a disenfranchised hanger-on who wasn't used to being expected to own his own shit and do his own work without anyones coat-tails to ride once Alec lost interest in their project.

Edit: Grammar
 
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I have a decent sized twitter audience and a semi-regular live stream. Both of those serve as platforms for me to talk, rant, complain, champion, and simply discuss things on my mind. That's as much thought that goes in to what I talk about on those platforms. Anyone who is even semi-aware of my social media presence over the last 15 years knows good and well I don't express ideas for the kudos but rather because- at any given moment- what I'm expressing I find interesting and fun to talk about. It really is as simple as that.
I can trust that to be true.

In all honesty, I am not the biggest fan of your games but you always seemed a cool dude to me.

Glad you are still around these parts.

Are you working on something at the moment, David?
 
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This reminds me of the possibility that in high school it's not the jocks having the most sex, it's the weird goth uggos banging eachother. And since then some of them make our games now and we are wrapped in their hateful disgusting drama.
Weird goths fuck like rabbits but couldnt care less about prudish politically correct culture. They indulge in the opposite.
 
Dec 15, 2011
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It's insane how fragile these people act. I'm a man and I've been working in games for a long time. I've dealt with *much* worse than either Scott or Albertine are detailing here, and probably just about everyone in the industry has. Everything they're describing is fairly standard interpersonal drama that comes from working on a project for a long time with a small team.

Was Alec difficult to work with sometimes? I don't know, maybe. Scott and Albertine seem to think so, and that's fair enough, I guess. But it's also none of my business. It's no one's business except theirs. I've dealt with tons of difficult coworkers. To other people, I've probably *been* that difficult coworker. I do my best, but I'm not perfect, and no one is. We're all human. We all get frustrated and have personality clashes sometimes.

One thing that I think is telling about Zoe, Scott, and Albertine's accounts is that they all reference Alec getting frustrated with them. They each attempt to use this as a cudgel, as if him being frustrated with them indicates some sort of huge, glaring character flaw on his part. Not one of them turns that lens inward and wonders if maybe his frustration was valid, and what *they* could have done. Ironically, they're attacking him for expressing his own feelings of frustration... in their own essays expressing their frustration.

Even taking these accounts entirely at face value, the worst thing Benson and Watson can level at Holowka is that he was moody, occasionally aloof, and occasionally rude (and in Benson's case, he seems frustrated that Alec pushed him to work almost-standard hour work days, which is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard). Watson alleges that he made some kind of romantic advance on her and then stopped when she told him not to. I'm not saying these are good qualities. I'm sure Holowka was no saint; that much, I believe. But they're not crimes, either. If anything, they're fairly mundane. Many of these things, in one form or another, are probably things they themselves have done to others.

If the mood struck me, I could write similar petty diatribes about lots of my old bosses and coworkers (many of whom have been women, for whatever that's worth). I'm not going to, because I'm an adult, I handled my own shit, and I recognize that other people have their own problems and they don't need to hear about my interpersonal drama from years ago. I also recognize that there are two sides to every story, and that even my old coworkers who annoyed me don't deserve to have their every failing blasted onto the internet for total strangers to see.

I'd never heard of a lot of these people before this, so I don't particularly have a dog in this fight. I'd like to think I've approached it with an open mind. But every single time one of them has written more on the subject, I've become less and less convinced that they're victims. They don't sound brave or beaten-down. They sound entitled. I wish them all the best. I get that they're probably dealing with a lot of heavy shit right now, and that there are also a lot of assholes on the internet who want to attack them for it. That's not okay. But neither is enabling them.
This is my take. But presented better than I could ever manage.
You are now the god-parent to my entire lineage of offspring. And I bequeath my complete PSP library to you.

Thank you, brother.
 

Knivess

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Sep 10, 2019
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You don't know who Albertine Watson is becuase they made a statement corroborating that Alec Holowka was indeed, a bit of a dick to work with. This was posted 1 day before his suicide. Since then she's completely locked down her twitter and this statement was made private:






Just getting you up to speed. Again this was one day before the suicide and she's locked down her social media since. I will leave you with this without any further comment.
Its the first time i've read this, gotta say this forms a pretty consistent picture with Scott's account, I.E the guy wasn't easy to work with but once again no indication whatsoever of abuse, sexual assault or violence of any kind.

Don't get me wrong, if he did hit on her and then try to split the working relationship when he was rejected then thats a shitty thing to do, although even on that we only have her side of the story. Whether true or false its a far cry from rape or sexual assault.

The main thing that sticks out to me about the accounts from these guys is how incredibly self-obsessed they are "And so i view the fact that he has not reached out to me as outrageously disrecpectful. " ... what?? Even by her own account these accusations of ZQ's had NOTHING to do with Albertine, why the hell should he have reached out to her while he was dealing with this shit? How self-important can you get, jeez...
 
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GreyHorace

Member
Jun 14, 2019
575
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All of these statements are by emotionally fragile people (except Zoe, I think she's a cold hearted bitch) so desperate for acceptance and validation that they're willing to shit on a dead guy.

I'd feel pity if it wasn't so pathetic and hypocritical.
 

Stiflers Mom

Member
Apr 27, 2012
2,970
480
815
It's insane how fragile these people act. I'm a man and I've been working in games for a long time. I've dealt with *much* worse than either Scott or Albertine are detailing here, and probably just about everyone in the industry has. Everything they're describing is fairly standard interpersonal drama that comes from working on a project for a long time with a small team.

Was Alec difficult to work with sometimes? I don't know, maybe. Scott and Albertine seem to think so, and that's fair enough, I guess. But it's also none of my business. It's no one's business except theirs. I've dealt with tons of difficult coworkers. To other people, I've probably *been* that difficult coworker. I do my best, but I'm not perfect, and no one is. We're all human. We all get frustrated and have personality clashes sometimes.

One thing that I think is telling about Zoe, Scott, and Albertine's accounts is that they all reference Alec getting frustrated with them. They each attempt to use this as a cudgel, as if him being frustrated with them indicates some sort of huge, glaring character flaw on his part. Not one of them turns that lens inward and wonders if maybe his frustration was valid, and what *they* could have done. Ironically, they're attacking him for expressing his own feelings of frustration... in their own essays expressing their frustration.

Even taking these accounts entirely at face value, the worst thing Benson and Watson can level at Holowka is that he was moody, occasionally aloof, and occasionally rude (and in Benson's case, he seems frustrated that Alec pushed him to work almost-standard hour work days, which is one of the most asinine things I've ever heard). Watson alleges that he made some kind of romantic advance on her and then stopped when she told him not to. I'm not saying these are good qualities. I'm sure Holowka was no saint; that much, I believe. But they're not crimes, either. If anything, they're fairly mundane. Many of these things, in one form or another, are probably things they themselves have done to others.

If the mood struck me, I could write similar petty diatribes about lots of my old bosses and coworkers (many of whom have been women, for whatever that's worth). I'm not going to, because I'm an adult, I handled my own shit, and I recognize that other people have their own problems and they don't need to hear about my interpersonal drama from years ago. I also recognize that there are two sides to every story, and that even my old coworkers who annoyed me don't deserve to have their every failing blasted onto the internet for total strangers to see.

I'd never heard of a lot of these people before this, so I don't particularly have a dog in this fight. I'd like to think I've approached it with an open mind. But every single time one of them has written more on the subject, I've become less and less convinced that they're victims. They don't sound brave or beaten-down. They sound entitled. I wish them all the best. I get that they're probably dealing with a lot of heavy shit right now, and that there are also a lot of assholes on the internet who want to attack them for it. That's not okay. But neither is enabling them.
This so much.
I have been working professionally in software dev in small teams since 22 years.
Things like these just happen when people are working together.
 
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rofif

Member
Sep 13, 2019
255
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375
this zq probablly has too much dirt on most of this general gaming journalist, nobody is willing to expose her beside some side journalists, may alec rest in peace, this will all get thinner within a month and the most annoying part to me still calling this bitch a " gaming developer".
By now it seems every journalist is her friend.
 

Blessed Barry

Neo Member
Sep 14, 2019
6
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This new game the expanded team was working on sounds like it could have been really good, it's too bad they had such poor communication and started throwing themselves under the buss for petty grievances they kept bottled up for a long time. I don't think this project will ever be continued even if they wanted it to be, even from their stories meant to paint him in a bad light, Alec seems the most important to the team being able to actually code and all and being a really talented composer.

By now it seems every journalist is her friend.
I wouldn't say everyone , but there are names that keep popping up constantly who live in the same town as her and constantly promote her grifts but never hold her accountable. Recently found this article about her failed kickstarter game which is never happening ( she recently removed the game from her bio) . They all promoted the game but no one wrote an article how or why the production of this game fell appart.


Same with Crash Override Network (CON). They all heaped praise on it so Quinn can get donations , but they never followed up on the leaked chat logs, how it fell apart, how all the employees started backstabbing each other and forming cliques within cliques. Since no journalist wrote about it , this was all I could find