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Upscalers, CRTs, PVMs & RGB: Retro gaming done right!

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M

MightyHedgehog

Member
Are those strange-looking scanlines always so weird-looking on Framemeister? My CRT is finally dying after almost twenty years and I was tempted to buy into the mini, but I think I'll just hold off for a good used CRT TV or maybe upgrade to a pro-quality RGB monitor.
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
i was indeed, and cotdamn those look good! what settings have you got going?

my scanline issue (i gotta go back to lostinblue's post (july i think) to work on mine, cause last i played LTTP i was having an issue with them distorting around link himself. otherwise though, i mean damn look at those colors!

MightyHedgehog said:
Are those strange-looking scanlines always so weird-looking on Framemeister?
Click to expand...

really depends on how you set them; you can adjust the thickness & all kinds've things on how they display. i do know that they look a lot better/more accurate @ 720p, i forget why but it's a known thing that 1080p messes with them.
 
Bog

Bog

Junior Ace
My Framemeister hates 480i signals via component. I get all these weird static lines through the picture. 480p doesn't cause it. What the heck?
 
M

MightyHedgehog

Member
IrishNinja said:
really depends on how you set them; you can adjust the thickness & all kinds've things on how they display. i do know that they look a lot better/more accurate @ 720p, i forget why but it's a known thing that 1080p messes with them.
Click to expand...
Hmmm...sounds interesting. The cost is high and it's really difficult to not notice the difference of temporal resolution on fixed panels, regardless of the quality of post-processing. There's something magical about the glossy smoothness and immediacy of movements while viewing CRT that I've never seen any other display tech match. I guess I'll start watching Craigslist for a replacement SD display while trying to fish for a nice BVM/PVM or similar on eBay.
 
S

SegaShack

Member
Peagles said:
I didn't understand a lick of that lol. I can help with the monitor side but not the crazy modded Xbox side hehe. Might have to hit you up when I get an Xbox though :p
Click to expand...
I know little to nothing about xbox softmods as well. Basically your softmods dashboard loads from E:/dash/default.xbe . I deleted the default.xbe file to transfer a new dash over to it, but when I went to transfer it I kept getting errors.

So because of this, I should have bricked the system, it should have just been a black screen. Luckily they had some sort of basic menu as a fail safe (for idiots like me), and from this menu you could re-install the dash. Once I did that everything was perfect.

So basically my very first installation of the dashboard must have been screwed up to not do component right, and now it is good.

Feel free to hit me up though if you want to soft mod.
 
T

Timu

Member
Since my Sega Genesis Model 2 died I plan on getting a Model 1 with HDG and I wonder if I should go composite video or composite sync for a scart cable. I heard composite sync gets rid of the jailbars and it seems to be recommended more.
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
I incorporated the XRGB-3 into a tournament setup recently and did an actual lag test on it for the first time just to have the receipts ready if people wanted to see them. I was pretty surprised to discover that it's actually faster than some of the CRT TVs.

xrgb3lag.jpg


TV on left, VGA monitor w/ XRGB-3 on right
Click to expand...
We even checked the TV to make sure there wasn't any kind of optional post-processing in play.
 
V

Viola of the Abyss

Member
I just bought a PS2, tried to connect it to my HDTV and it looks much worse than I originally thought :( Granted I can't use RGB as my only inputs are composite and 2 HDMI ports (and RF, but let's not tread that dark path, ne?) but still :/

I have two questions:

Is there anyway for me to make the image look better with a 5000 Yen (~$50) budget using the aforementioned ports and no room for CRT? I'm in Japan so take into account shipping expenses if possible.

The PS2 is a JP one, I heard about the incompatibility between JP RGB and EU RGB cables, does the console have the same problems or can I safely connect an EU RGB cable to a JP console to make it work on an EU CRT?
 
P

Peltz

Member
fugimax said:
Modded the SNES this weekend..

Gameplay Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SZAjz8yWNxg

SNES Jr. --> RGB --> XRGB-Mini --> Elgato Game Capture HD



Moar pics:
Click to expand...

Woah...

Not to open a can of worms, but some people in this thread have mentioned that the XRGB-Mini doesn't do scanlines as well at 1080p. I was wondering if you could do a comparison video with that output.... I'm still trying to understand this whole 720p>1080p thing with the XRGB-Mini's scanlines.

If anyone else wants to chime in with their thoughts, I'd really appreciate it. I don't mind hearing even biased opinions on why the scanlines aren't as good at 1080p. I'm just trying to understand people's opinions on the subject because I don't really get why the experience at 1080p is a less authentic reproduction of a CRT's look.

P.S. Thanks to 16bit for the suggestion on the component switcher. I'll let you know how that works out.
 
M

Moor-Angol

Banned
I finally enjoyed the club :)

xrgb_1.jpg



xrgb_2.jpg


I just used the default setting, tried to see if it was working. Actually I just have Saturn hooked up, with original RGB cable.
There are some pretty setups for it ? (so I just don't spend too much time in finding a good one :D )
 
K

Khaz

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
I incorporated the XRGB-3 into a tournament setup recently and did an actual lag test on it for the first time just to have the receipts ready if people wanted to see them. I was pretty surprised to discover that it's actually faster than some of the CRT TVs.


We even checked the TV to make sure there wasn't any kind of optional post-processing in play.
Click to expand...

It's not faster. What you're noticing is the peculiar iphone shutter, the same ting that can lead to funny pictures if the movement is faster than it. If you had inverted both screens (or held your phone upside down) you would have had the opposite conclusion.

I'm not familiar with pro upscalers, but it seems this one just transforms the RGB signal into a VGA one, which is as simple as separating horizontal and vertical sync from csync. It shouldn't add any delay. You can actually do the opposite and hack a VGA signal into a Scart just by connecting the right wires and adding a few resistors. (the VGA signal needs to be at 15kHz instead of 31kHz).
 
K

Kobiekun

Member
There are some comparison pics on Fudoh's site. Search for 1080p and you'll find them. As the pics illustrate, the 1080p scanlines seem to vary in thickness whereas those generated at 720p do not. The effect is exacerbated on solid (or near solid) color backgrounds.

Peltz said:
I was wondering if you could do a comparison video with that output.... I'm still trying to understand this whole 720p>1080p thing with the XRGB-Mini's scanlines.

If anyone else wants to chime in with their thoughts, I'd really appreciate it. I don't mind hearing even biased opinions on why the scanlines aren't as good at 1080p. I'm just trying to understand people's opinions on the subject because I don't really get why the experience at 1080p is a less authentic reproduction of a CRT's look.
Click to expand...
 
A

antibolo

Banned
Sixfortyfive said:
I incorporated the XRGB-3 into a tournament setup recently and did an actual lag test on it for the first time just to have the receipts ready if people wanted to see them. I was pretty surprised to discover that it's actually faster than some of the CRT TVs.


We even checked the TV to make sure there wasn't any kind of optional post-processing in play.
Click to expand...

No, as Khaz already said this is most likely because your phone takes pictures too slowly, so you're seeing both screens at different points in time.

I once tried doing lag tests with my phone once, and realized that it's worthless unless you make sure that the data you're comparing on both screens is perfectly aligned on the same "scanline" of the camera.

Decent SLRs probably don't have this problem? I dunno.
 
P

Peltz

Member
Kobiekun said:
There are some comparison pics on Fudoh's site. Search for 1080p and you'll find them. As the pics illustrate, the 1080p scanlines seem to vary in thickness whereas those generated at 720p do not. The effect is exacerbated on solid (or near solid) color backgrounds.
Click to expand...

Thank you. Now I understand.

So outputting to 720p (with scanlines) then allowing a 1080p set to scale it still looks ok?
 
A

antibolo

Banned
shinkansen.3000 said:
The PS2 is a JP one, I heard about the incompatibility between JP RGB and EU RGB cables, does the console have the same problems or can I safely connect an EU RGB cable to a JP console to make it work on an EU CRT?
Click to expand...

The cable itself shouldn't be a problem, but your European CRT might not support the 60Hz RGB signal that your Japanese PS2 will output.
 
K

Khaz

Member
Although that's a possibility, it's very unlikely. The problem that can arise sometimes is between PAL and NTSC signals, so if using composite or svideo you may only have a black and white picture. But in RGB mode there are no problem of colour encoding, only the frequency changes, and I have yet to hear about a tube that can't take switching between 480i/60Hz and 576i/50Hz.
 
D.Lo

D.Lo

Member
Khaz said:
Although that's a possibility, it's very unlikely. The problem that can arise sometimes is between PAL and NTSC signals, so if using composite or svideo you may only have a black and white picture. But in RGB mode there are no problem of colour encoding, only the frequency changes, and I have yet to hear about a tube that can't take switching between 480i/60Hz and 576i/50Hz.
Click to expand...
Yes, colour is not 'encoded' in RGB, that's the raw colour data.
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Khaz said:
It's not faster. What you're noticing is the peculiar iphone shutter, the same ting that can lead to funny pictures if the movement is faster than it. If you had inverted both screens (or held your phone upside down) you would have had the opposite conclusion.
Click to expand...
Interesting. So you're saying that if I was to capture a high-motion, full-screen shot, I would have seen vertical screen-tearing?

EDIT: Moving this other part of the post below...
 
K

Khaz

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
Interesting. So you're saying that if I was to capture a high-motion, full-screen shot, I would have seen vertical screen-tearing?
Click to expand...

[edit] This is crap. it can be valid for an LCD, which updates all its pixels at once,but not for a CRT with scanlines. That'll teach me to post on forums instead of getting some sleep.

You're already seeing it. The ball stays red for one frame, and all its pixels turn red at the same time. You can see two red half-balls, which means the lower part of the picture is one frame earlier than the upper part. Your picture was taken from bottom to top, which makes sense if you think how an image is inverted when going through a lense etc.

You could even time how long your camera takes for a picture by taking a fullscreen shot of a blinking black and white display. You should see alternating thick lines of black and white.

If you have a "sports" mode, use it. it removes any light, focus, etc treatment but is a much faster shutter time. It's made to eliminate any blur with fast movement but it may also help with this problem?
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
Khaz said:
You're already seeing it.
Click to expand...
I don't understand, then. Why is the dividing line between the two frames not straight across the whole picture (it's in a different spot for each display in view), and why is the monitor ahead of the TV?
 
P

PumpkinSpice

Banned
This may not be the best place to ask about this, but are there any decent modern 2014 LCD TVs that have good support for 240p over composite & component (as in not trying to deinterlace it)?

I don't really want to get a CRT due to space, power draw, heat and I don't want to get a framemeister due to cost.
 
K

Khaz

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
I don't understand, then. Why is the dividing line between the two frames not straight across the whole picture (it's in a different spot for each display in view), and why is the monitor ahead of the TV?
Click to expand...

You got me. Watching the picture again I'm not so sure anymore. It could very well be the refresh scanline. I think you can discard any shit I said in my previous posts.

Yes, it does look like the VGA CRT is ahead of the TV of about 10 lines or so. With a 60Hz 240p display it means there's a difference of about 1 / 60 / 240 x 10 = 0.7 milliseconds.

As said previously, and this I stand by, converting from RGB to VGA shouldn't add any delay.It's possible that the difference we see is a common difference between a TV and a computer screen. The computer screen is designed to display an exact picture as fast as possible, whereas a TV may take its sweet time, speed being less a factor when conceiving a broadcast receptor.

I'll start every post with a "I may be full of shit" disclaimer now lol
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
lol

Thing is, that shot was taken with composite video going into both units, so there still is some conversion and upscaling happening on the monitor side.
 
K

Khaz

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
composite
Click to expand...

Lol, you had to keep that information until I was knee deep in some bullshit explanation, didn't you?

I don't know then. The PAL/NTSC decoder of the TV is slightly less efficient than the XRGB's?

That's one more reason not to use Composite then :)

[edit] I've edited my previous posts. I wasn't that full of shit, I somehow thought CRT were LCD for some unknown reason. If this was a picture of two LCD, my original explanation could stand.
I think.
Don't trust me.
 
P

Peltz

Member
On a whim, I just picked up one of these to hook up my Dreamcast to my set via HDMI via the Dreamcast's VGA-out.

81%2B8Th5-tFL._SL1500_.jpg


It's called the "OREI XD-600 VGA to HDMI Video Converter -Upscaler"

The image is pretty clear at 720p, and there appears to be no lag (or at least, none I can detect... there's probably at least 1 frame of lag). But the 1080p upscaling flat out doesnt work (it is discolored).

Unfortunately, this thing forces 4:3 content into widescreen at both resolutions and there's no way for my set to format back to 4:3 without cutting off some of the picture. So it's basically useless for 4:3 gaming. But if you don't mind a stretched picture, or have a set that can somehow squish a widescreen 720p picture to 4:3 (unlikely), this might be a good option on a tight budget.

It really looks good for a $30 item if you can get passed the forced widescreen (but I can't).
 
A

antibolo

Banned
Peltz said:
Unfortunately, this thing forces 4:3 content into widescreen at both resolutions and there's no way for my set to format back to 4:3 without cutting off some of the picture. So it's basically useless for 4:3 gaming. But if you don't mind a stretched picture, or have a set that can somehow squish a widescreen 720p picture to 4:3 (unlikely), this might be a good option on a tight budget.
Click to expand...

Oh no. The last time I complained about something like this (bought a cheap SCART to HDMI scaler with the same problem), everyone here claimed that forcing 4:3 on 720p content is a super common feature on any TV, and that my TV is complete shit for not having such as option.
 
P

Peagles

Member
antibolo said:
Oh no. The last time I complained about something like this (bought a cheap SCART to HDMI scaler with the same problem), everyone here claimed that forcing 4:3 on 720p content is a super common feature on any TV, and that my TV is complete shit for not having such as option.
Click to expand...

Next TV you buy make sure it has an aspect button on the remote! I don't know where you live but it's really common in NZ, even the no-brander TVs have it most the time.
 
O

Ocaso

Member
Peagles said:
Next TV you buy make sure it has an aspect button on the remote! I don't know where you live but it's really common in NZ, even the no-brander TVs have it most the time.
Click to expand...

Panasonic plasmas dont allow you to horizontally transform 720p signals or higher. Choosing 4:3 settings merely adds black borders to the side, so you're stuck with a bad aspect ratio.

I was bitten by the retro gaming bug and was looking into getting a SCART to HDMI converter, preferrably with S Video support and aspect ratio correction, but without breaking the bank, which eliminates most options in the first post. That said, googling around I stumbled upon the Coosis converter (http://www.coosis.com/products-page...-rca-w-s-video-to-hdmi-080-ultimate-features/) and it has pretty much all the features Im looking for at a reasonable price. However, I'm concerned that it can't handle 240p content and for the life of me I can't find proper reviews or impressions of the machine. Anyone here tried it?
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
My advice to anyone who wants to check whether a specific upscaler handles 240p content appropriately is to give it a thorough run through the Drop Shadow and Striped Sprite tests in the 240p Test Suite. Read the help documentation, tinker with all the different options in those tests, and cross-check the results with a PC emulator running the test suite to understand what the TV is supposed to be showing. If it fails the test and the TV shows different results than the emulator (e.g. sprites that are supposed to flicker don't actually flicker on the TV), then return the scaler and try another one.
 
O

Ocaso

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
My advice to anyone who wants to check whether a specific upscaler handles 240p content appropriately is to give it a thorough run through the Drop Shadow and Striped Sprite tests in the 240p Test Suite. Read the help documentation, tinker with all the different options in those tests, and cross-check the results with a PC emulator running the test suite to understand what the TV is supposed to be showing. If it fails the test and the TV shows different results than the emulator (e.g. sprites that are supposed to flicker don't actually flicker on the TV), then return the scaler and try another one.
Click to expand...

Good advice, but the shipping on that thing would unfortunately cost a fair amount, so I'd rather not have to return it! Hopefully someone on the thread has already given it a spin and can let us know either way.
 
P

Peagles

Member
Ocaso said:
Panasonic plasmas dont allow you to horizontally transform 720p signals or higher. Choosing 4:3 settings merely adds black borders to the side, so you're stuck with a bad aspect ratio.

I was bitten by the retro gaming bug and was looking into getting a SCART to HDMI converter, preferrably with S Video support and aspect ratio correction, but without breaking the bank, which eliminates most options in the first post. That said, googling around I stumbled upon the Coosis converter (http://www.coosis.com/products-page...-rca-w-s-video-to-hdmi-080-ultimate-features/) and it has pretty much all the features Im looking for at a reasonable price. However, I'm concerned that it can't handle 240p content and for the life of me I can't find proper reviews or impressions of the machine. Anyone here tried it?
Click to expand...

I don't own an upscaler, but the general rule seems to be that you get what you pay for. A few people have tried various ones throughout this thread but I've yet to see one aside from the Framemeister series that performs well enough to be worth buying.
 
T

Timu

Member
Peagles said:
I don't own an upscaler, but the general rule seems to be that you get what you pay for. A few people have tried various ones throughout this thread but I've yet to see one aside from the Framemeister series that performs well enough to be worth buying.
Click to expand...
I learned my lesson the hard way, lol, bought a scart to hdmi converter and took it back a few days later to exchange for a scart to component converter that worked flawlessy.
 
F

Friend of Sonic

Member
Khaz said:
It's not faster. What you're noticing is the peculiar iphone shutter, the same ting that can lead to funny pictures if the movement is faster than it. If you had inverted both screens (or held your phone upside down) you would have had the opposite conclusion.

I'm not familiar with pro upscalers, but it seems this one just transforms the RGB signal into a VGA one, which is as simple as separating horizontal and vertical sync from csync. It shouldn't add any delay. You can actually do the opposite and hack a VGA signal into a Scart just by connecting the right wires and adding a few resistors. (the VGA signal needs to be at 15kHz instead of 31kHz).
Click to expand...
I know this isn't exactly on topic, but my 20l5 supports 31khz according to what I've read. Is there a way you know of to resolve the sync in order for it to work? I'm hoping I can do something better than use an Emotia since the monitor actually does 31khz.
 
P

Peltz

Member
Ocaso said:
Panasonic plasmas dont allow you to horizontally transform 720p signals or higher. Choosing 4:3 settings merely adds black borders to the side, so you're stuck with a bad aspect ratio.
Click to expand...

THAT's the issue.

P.S.... how do I quote multiple people in a single one of my posts? I didn't mean to bump the thread twice. Sorry about that.
 
K

Khaz

Member
Friend of Sonic said:
I know this isn't exactly on topic, but my 20l5 supports 31khz according to what I've read. Is there a way you know of to resolve the sync in order for it to work? I'm hoping I can do something better than use an Emotia since the monitor actually does 31khz.
Click to expand...

I don't know what a 20l5 and an Emotia are. I also must warn you that I have been proven to be full of shit sometimes.

That said, consoles and TV operate at 15kHz and can't, to my knowledge, do anything with any other frequency. What can be done however is to use an adapter like an XRGB-3 to automatically convert an RGB or Composite signal to VGA (31kHz), all without lag as it's just a matter of doubling the frequency and split hsync and vsync from csync. In a similar fashion, you can force your PC to output 15kHz if it has the correct drivers. You then just need to make a fairly simple VGA to Scart adapter. VGA screens don't accept 15kHz so make sure not to have one plugged once your PC is set.
 
V

Valcrist0

Neo Member
So, I've looked around all sorts of places and can't seem to find the exact solution I'm looking for.

I have a 36" 4:3 Panasonic TAU HDTV that looks fantastic in every respect other than it doesn't have scan-lines when playing my older consoles. My 6th Generation systems are all hooked up via component cable to my Onkyo receiver and then to the TV via component out. I have all of my 5th Generation and earlier systems hooked up via composite/s-video to a switch that then goes into my receiver that then up converts it to component to my TV. Again, this looks amazing other than missing the scan-lines.

Is there anything that I could use to simply just add scan-lines to my 5th Generation systems image? Or does it have to be more complicated than that? I've looked into the slg-in-a-box, but its output is VGA and my TV doesn't have VGA. Should I just convert that back to component again or would so many conversions deteriorate the image or add significant lag?

....Also, long time lurker first time post. :)
 
IrishNinja

IrishNinja

Member
can't even say i'm surprised; i wanna say i got nearly $40 for an okay-ish saturn s-vid cable last year. literally everything in that scene is going wild.
 
S

Sixfortyfive

He who pursues two rabbits gets two rabbits.
jarosh said:
So I got my NES RGB, which is pretty damn awesome...

One thing though, anyone know what's up with these faint diagonal lines I'm getting? I'm not currently running this through an XRGB Mini, but straight into an older Panasonic Plasma, which is what I have all my retro stuff hooked up too. With MD and SNES hooked up through Scart (RGB) I'm not getting these lines, only with the NES. I remember getting similar lines with S-Video before (NTSC SNES and a clone system).

HD7HFbf.jpg


Note that I added the black line in Photoshop, just to highlight the direction of the lines in case they're hard to see on your screen.
Click to expand...
Sixfortyfive said:
I've heard that this is a somewhat common issue. It might actually be present in all NESRGB installations but isn't widely reported because it isn't clearly visible on every setup. I'm not sure if anyone figured out how to completely eradicate it.

I could test for differences between the two cables I have later. I've actually been meaning to get around to that already.
Click to expand...
jarosh said:
Would be cool if you could test that and report back, yeah!
Click to expand...
Better late than never. Now with more thorough comparison shots:

jailbars_nes_cvideo.png
jailbars_nes_cvideo_equalize.png

NESRGB w/ composite video as sync (V)
unfiltered on left, equalize filter on right

jailbars_nes_csync.png
jailbars_nes_csync_equalize.png

NESRGB w/ sync only (CS#)
unfiltered on left, equalize filter on right
Click to expand...

Zoom in or blow-up the images to huge sizes in nearest-neighbor to get a good look. I can only see the diagonal lines clearly in the c-video screenshot; I don't see them when using c-sync. This was consistent whether I connected the NES directly to my capture card or routed it through the XRGB-3 first. The c-sync screenshot doesn't seem to have perfectly solid colors either, but I can't say for sure if that's due to noise in the signal somewhere, my capture card's color sampling, or some other factor. In either case, it doesn't seem to have the same diagonal line noise that the c-video screenshot has.

Bonus: Jailbar test for a specific revision of the Model 1 Sega Genesis (VA6):

jailbars_gen_cvideo.png
jailbars_gen_cvideo_equalize.png

composite video as sync
unfiltered on left, equalize filter on right

jailbars_gen_csync.png
jailbars_gen_csync_equalize.png

sync only
unfiltered on left, equalize filter on right
Click to expand...

A slight difference, but nothing major.
 
K

Khaz

Member
Valcrist0 said:
So, I've looked around all sorts of places and can't seem to find the exact solution I'm looking for.

I have a 36" 4:3 Panasonic TAU HDTV that looks fantastic in every respect other than it doesn't have scan-lines when playing my older consoles. My 6th Generation systems are all hooked up via component cable to my Onkyo receiver and then to the TV via component out. I have all of my 5th Generation and earlier systems hooked up via composite/s-video to a switch that then goes into my receiver that then up converts it to component to my TV. Again, this looks amazing other than missing the scan-lines.

Is there anything that I could use to simply just add scan-lines to my 5th Generation systems image? Or does it have to be more complicated than that? I've looked into the slg-in-a-box, but its output is VGA and my TV doesn't have VGA. Should I just convert that back to component again or would so many conversions deteriorate the image or add significant lag?

....Also, long time lurker first time post. :)
Click to expand...

Most HD CRT TV double the resolution of very low res signals like 240p and make it 480(p/i?) I learned that on neogaf. I think it's because TV designers didn't like visible dark lines on their displays.

You can check it by taking a picture of your screen. Here is mine, displaying a 480i signal at 120Hz (really just doubling the images)

23efPmxl.jpg


You can clearly see the scan lines which are not discernible with the naked eye because of persistence of vision. Each dark line will be populated at the next frame, resulting in a fuller picture. You can see it happening: each pack of brighter lines is when my camera got confused and caught two frames at once. On a 60Hz display, I suppose the distance between two packs of lines should be twice as big.

[Edit] I suppose you could use an upscaler to go 480p with an artificial black line every odd line, and then feed it to your screen who in turn wouldn't fiddle with it. I don't know if the big names can do it though.
 
R

Ramune

Member
Sixfortyfive said:
Damn, I'm making bank.

(Spoiler: It's not even as good as an equivalent retro_console_accessories cable.)

Speaking of which, I have a set of spare r_c_a RGB cables (JP21 format, composite video as sync, SNES/Genesis/Saturn/PS1). If anyone here wants any of them I'd be willing to part with them for a few bucks cheaper than what she charges.
Click to expand...

Wait, your saying the official Sega Saturn cable doesn't hold a candle to one of r_c_a's cables? Cuz I have an official cable, and the picture is immaculate. Or I could just be "reading" too much into that. ;)
 
Ein Bear

Ein Bear

Member
Thought this would be the best place to ask. I just got hold of a US, NTSC N64 and tried hooking it up. Unfortunately, on both my PAL HDTV and CRT, I could only get a black and white picture.

I know this used to be a common problem on old TVs, but I didn't think there'd be any issue at all with my HDTV, and the CRT I use for retro gaming is an early 2000s Trinitron that has been running 60hz Dreamcast/Gamecube/PS2/Xbox games perfectly for years.

Can anyone shed any light? I'm hoping it's because of the shitty RF cable the console came with, since I've already got an S Video cable on it's way to me at the moment.

Thanks GAF!
 
P

Peagles

Member
Ein Bear said:
Thought this would be the best place to ask. I just got hold of a US, NTSC N64 and tried hooking it up. Unfortunately, on both my PAL HDTV and CRT, I could only get a black and white picture.

I know this used to be a common problem on old TVs, but I didn't think there'd be any issue at all with my HDTV, and the CRT I use for retro gaming is an early 2000s Trinitron that has been running 60hz Dreamcast/Gamecube/PS2/Xbox games perfectly for years.

Can anyone shed any light? I'm hoping it's because of the shitty RF cable the console came with, since I've already got an S Video cable on it's way to me at the moment.

Thanks GAF!
Click to expand...

Are you certain your TVs support NTSC signals? Were the 60Hz games you were running before NTSC or PAL60?
 
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