If the police are in the wrong a report should be filed and subsequent spreading of the message through appropriate media outlets, which tends to light fires under government institutions. One way or the other, it would get addessed/resolved rather than endless speculation and mud slinging.
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Tropes vs Women author Sarkeesian vacates home following online threats
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If the police are in the wrong a report should be filed and subsequent spreading of the message through appropriate media outlets, which tends to light fires under government institutions. One way or the other, it would get addessed/resolved rather than endless speculation and mud slinging.
Well, I'll be honest, I'm not offended in the slightest, but I do like pointing out philosophical issues I disagree with, it is fun to debate stuff like this. I find it an interesting talking point, honestly. I personally find the philosophy of that train of thought dangerous(in terms of healthy dialog), and I don't think any good comes from it(and I think the reactions prove this) if the goal is inclusiveness in a subset of consumers.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
Why are you assuming she's on the phone with them?
Real talk, file a report with whom? And is social media not the proper media outlet? Or are we expected to get channel 4 news to cover every time a cop tells us "we're not going to help you"?
Relaxed Muscle
Member
I don't think that's whats the police officer was saying. His/her answer dosn't imply they're not gonna take action or investigate it.
I mean, yes, you're right. It sounds like they'll do the necessary paper work as per usual protocol with a called in threat...and that'll be where it ends. Which, anecdotally, is about as far as police involvement goes with things like this.
Scofield94941
Member
why would she lie about what a cop said? I can totally see a cop saying that , thinking of ways to TRY to help her. I never watched her videos before seeing this thread but she comes up with valid points and things for discussion.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
That's an oversimplification, [negative thing] here isn't just any insult, it's a description of specific behaviour. So unless you take part in this kind of behaviour, clearly the [negative thing] doesn't apply to you.
You file reports with the police department themselves. They're legally obligated to make record of it. It's the a smart first-step in a process where you're accusing someone in a department of wrongdoing. Not that the system always works, but there are intra-department Internal Affairs officers, and and it's SUPER useful because the court system has access to those records as well in the case of outright legal claims.
The easiest way to inform the cops of something like this would be to call the police department and go from there. You can also fax them, or email them I suppose, but if you actually think you are in danger, then calling would give the fastest response to said inquiry and allow you move from there.
Maybe it's the limit of twitter, but when she merely says "police" that usually means she called someone at the police. She mightve talked to a chief of police, or some other police officer there too, but even they wouldn't understand the political ins and outs of video games.
The best way to approach this is to talk to a lawyer, which Anita should have (if she doesn't, then it's time to get one) if you were denied the initial time. They can tell what forms and what type of stuff to do to get this going. Cops are ignorant about video game culture, that's not a terrible thing within itself, but there are avenues to approach said situation.
BECAUSE AGENDAS!
::Shakes head:: I don't even think the officer thought he was being rude. Just...one of those questions.
Exactly. File a police report about the police refusing to help you and hope that the police decide to follow up on it and police themselves.
BuffaloBuffaloBuffaloBuffaloBuffaloBuffaloBuffaloBuffaloBuffalo.
::Huff::
I'm letting you know why you got the reaction you did, when you acted incredulous at what happened. You said "Huh? I don't want to insult anyone, I'm trying to understand why anyone would be defensive..." means you didn't understand (which was why I explained).
I recognized potential problems in the system, but that doesn't mean don't do it. The court systems are separate from the police departments for a reason. Don't fall under the impression that no one has good intentions in the chain of law enforcement, or that a paper trail doesn't matter. When you're publicly accusing someone of something, you want a public record of it. That's basically half the role of police.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
Cops still ask rape victims questions like "what were you wearing" or "how much did you have to drink", it's not a stretch that they'd tell something so shitty to Anita. In fact, as terrible as that cop was, s/he's completely believable, sadly.
Because if you are mad at someone in a forum or press from a website, instead of blaming them, blame Anita, because she is getting attention. I think what we are seeing is a whole lot of "baby in the bath water" going on. When people debate on a forum, they may not be as coherent, or as used to disagreement, or as used to dealing with sensitive subjects, so they deal with issues the same as they would someone telling them Halo sucks. When halo to them is awesome, anything the person saying "halo sucks" says, regardless if there is any truth to it, will fall on deaf ears, because Halo clearly doesn't suck.
I dunno, start here with how to file a complaint correctly.
http://policecrimes.com/police_complaint.html
Social media is not the proper outlet for such things if you are expecting any kind of results. If you have strong enough evidence, then even local news will likely cover a headline "local cops refuse to address death threats". Even 60 minutes have covered topics involving cyber bullying, stalking, and other similar crimes that occur via the internet, so it isn't as far fetched as you put forward.
Maybe she did file a report as well. She also never said that they refused to address the threats.
MegamanPoweredUP
Member
Same here, and also this happens with movies too.
Multi-billions built on young male teenagers. Also, potatoes are a multi-billion industry, but you're never going to love potatoes as you do with videogames. Point is: videogames are meaningfull to us only, the world outside doesn't care.
Your assumotion is wrong.
Also, you can find freaks everywere on the internet.
Maybe she did, and maybe she didn't. Who knows, what we have is a tweet of her talking and one specific line from said person she was talking too.
This might've happened today, yesterday, a week ago etc.
if she did file it today, then that situation takes time. It sucks ass, but ive seen it happen to people who were robbed, attacked, etc... It's all part of the bureaucratic process of the police
She's not complaining about the police. She's complaining about society.
While I believe saying that there's absolutely no good on that end of law enforcement is silly and obviously not true, I have been given very very VERY little reason in my days to trust that the system will end up working out in the end.
But hey, just part of my lacking privilege, right?
And in my person experience, that paper trail has never mattered, but then I've never had to call in a death threat either so...::Shrug::
TL
R - I'm biased.I don't get this. Why is it okay if it happens in other forms of media?
You'd be surprised.
Yes, her videos talk about society, but were talking about this specific tweet. Unless you're saying she didn't actually talk to the police at all?
I don't follow her or even claim to understand thought processes she could employ, so I couldn't begin to speculate on that matter. I was offering a solution to put the whole swirl down the drain to rest, if it was ever pursued in the first place.
This is a necessary counterpoint to my back-seat reactions of "c'mon, file a report!" Part of my concern about Twitter for following events is it doesn't exactly make a lot of room for context.
MrSaturn99
Member
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
She shared that with us because this is how society treats women who feel they are victims of pretty much anything. It's a commentary on both police responses and personal responses.
Yes, her videos talk about society, but were talking about this specific tweet. Unless you're saying she didn't actually talk to the police at all?
I think it's interesting how some people are like "she's lying, or that cop is bad" while others are like "yeah, that happens all the time." Life experiences are different for everyone.
Yes, her videos talk about society, but were talking about this specific tweet. Unless you're saying she didn't actually talk to the police at all?
No, I'm saying that her tweet isn't about the failure of police to address her complaint, it's about the failure of society that such a piece of advice is considered adequate, even from the police.
so she didn't talk to police at all?
then this is fake?
Once again, you're overvaluing how much people know or care about video games, or people who critique said video games. This is not done out of misogyny or sexism, this is done out of ignorance. Why would a cop know about the rampant misogyny of video games
ShadowKingpin
Member
Yes, her videos talk about society, but were talking about this specific tweet. Unless you're saying she didn't actually talk to the police at all?
I support the movement, but I sure as hell don't support her.
TL
One person's bias is another's personal experience. I don't claim to understand the "why" for how you feel. I appreciate the response.
[clarity: I'm totally sincere here, and I took your TL;DR as appropriate sarcasm]
And there's nothing wrong with that, but even if you don't like her, you can't look at all of the things that are swirling around her because of this series and say that it's all just fine.
It's cool. Defusing sarcasm, I really am biased, but yes, it's a foolhardy thing to ignore police involvement because you've had some shitty run ins with them (which I have had, I've been a victim of driving/walking/sitting while black). I'm just jaded.
That doesn't really matter. It doesn't have to be about video games. She could have told the cop she was making a series of videos about misogyny in politics. The response would still be inadequate.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Exactly my problem with this.
I have greater fondness for potatoes than I do video games.
I fully agree that this is an inadequate response, but it's not a response born out of misogyny, it's one born out of ignorance of what's going on.
I agree 100% to this, however, how it is covered I think has a lot to do with the backlash she is getting. I think some of the people supporting her message(or at least support the sentiment that gaming in general needs to grow up) do her a disservice when they get divisive, because then we see a whole lot of baby in the bath water, and people forget there are mutual points where people actually agree. In this sense I think SOME of the media play's a part in this mentality, where, because they dont like something a forum poster or press person says, Anita and anything she says(literally) is invalid or wrong headed.
I mean, I'm seeing it time and time again, where people will claim they care about diversity and better/more representation and then talk past that to attack Anita for all the "SWJ" moniker. So she gets all the directed hate, because she is the low hanging fruit. So nothing gets discussed except group a are assholes and group b doesn't really care either they just want the lime light. So now it is a battle of intentions, instead a battle of the talking points. At least this is how I see it.
Relaxed Muscle
Member
Nope and nope.
Morrigan Stark
Arrogant Smirk
The fuck? Yeah, there's proof, she secretly recorded the officer saying that right on cue.
>_<
DoktorEvil
Banned
I think its hard to objectively say you support the movement without supporting her, because I'm hard pressed to find any other person doing what shes doing in media studies, specifically with video games. She should be in a classroom doing this, with the support of university funding and the protection of academia. I wonder why she hasn't done that earlier?
Honest question: If it was a man hosting the Feminist Frequency, would the "outrage" be at all different? Would it be more valid? How about if it was a game dev like Cliffy B or Ken Levine or even Kojima-san? Would their criticisms be less valid or magnified because of their sphere of influence?
The police most likely didn't take the threat as serious as say, protecting a key witness in a murder case or a person dealing with a stalker leaving a paper trail. Her sphere of influence hasn't reached academia levels of influence, thus the police have no political pressure to protect her aside from protecting a normal citizen. Her voice is only as influential as the audience and power she holds.
This is the problem with discussing her personal life. I understand what you are saying, she gave it to the public to be scrutinized, but it doesn't help anyone having a vested interest in this, because it would have to assume a lot. So, you can say your skeptical(although I think just ignoring it, would actually help the mindset out more, since voicing your skepticism doesn't help anything), but asking for proof is just bad form, imo.
I think the only valid backlash she deserves is criticism on how she's managed this project because there have been some very real mistakes made. But you know what? People make mistakes. And the people who are being the loudest and most vocal aren't the ones who are upset/annoyed with how she's been managing the project, they rarely even use those mistakes as arguing platforms. Most of the hatred going towards her is completely irrational and unearned.
Playing devil's advocate, I think that's what she believed her university/TED talks were. Pretty sure she doesn't have her PHD, so actually teaching in a university setting might be tough, but her speech tour seemed to be her attempt at what you're describing.
I would hope so, but it's hard to say. Think about how much shit we give Cliffy B about that Macklemoore comment. The fallout would probably be similar, though far less rapey. I actually want Kojima to answer for Ground Zeroes, I don't think the ending for that thing was justified or earned at all.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
I doubt Sarkeesian's work would pass muster in an academic setting.
This is Kafka levels of absurdity, yet very believable (just look at all the videos of people having to deal with dismissive police or worst, if you haven't experienced it yourself).
I may not agree with 100% of her opinions or reasonings (though i do think this industry has major issues with sex), but that shouldn't even factor in the idea that she should be able to express those ideas, without having to be driven out of her house by threats of violence.
Given the reaction you'd think she was promoting Nazism or something (and i wouldn't condone threats of violence even in that case, just for the record).
Again, regardless of what you think of her videos and opinions, the thought that she was almost driven to disappear (by taking the officer's advice) is fucking pathetic, man.
----
On an unrelated note, i personally don't feel offended in the slightest by those "gamer in 4 words" tweets, but that doesn't make them any less stupid.
Again, people should try to bend out of shape to justify something stupid, just because it's near their general point of view or side of the argument.
Stuff like "present virgin. future murderer" and such crap isn't the kind of campaign you should bother supporting or defending, and the way you choose your words and their weight have a meaning, if your definition causes completely unnecessary inflammatory responses by people who are essentially misunderstanding your core message (whatever that may be, by calling people murderers), you should think about ironing out your use of language.
ShadowKingpin
Member
Oh, no no no no. My apologies for the misunderstanding. I should have been more specific. I do not in any way support what has happened to her.
You are talking bout what she deserves, I'm talking about the backlash she is getting(sans critiques on her actual video). And in terms of who is winning the competition of being the loudest, I'm not sure what you mean. Are you talking about the personal attacks or the criticism of her video's? Cause when it comes to who is the loudest, I'm not sure how to get a pulse on that, because it seems like a lot of white noise in general.
My comment wasn't even about her(specifically), as much as it was about people reacting to her, because of other people who are not her.
DoktorEvil
Banned
TED? That is literally the worst place to host one of her talks. No one in the Valley is really focused on Video Games. They're focused on Startups and screwing each other with VC money.
Honestly, if she wants credibility beyond a surface level, she needs the nod of approval from big name female devs. Jade Raymond/Corrinne Yu types. You bring a Roberta Williams onboard or even a big name Japanese dev like Sakaguchi or Kojima, you'll get the widespread approval of the industry.
Imru’ al-Qays;128195024 said:
Really? Why's that?
Her work has actually gotten objectively better than her earlier critiques. Funding can do that.
If she was to get into those big name academia circles, she might be able to do damage with her videos, but I don't think she's the type to play politics with a university.
Weltall Zero
Member
Maybe I'm too honest, but I can't say I disagree with them. I can easily imagine that police was like "kids today are so weird...why she doesn't get a real job". This way of thinking is very stupid, but that's how common people would react.
Also, her answer is even worse. It's important what? Videogames are just games. Who cares?
I don't know where to begin. First of all, you "don't disagree with them" but "their way of thinking is very stupid". Apparent self-insult aside, it just sounds like you want to say something but are afraid to commit to it.
Secondly, the very fact that people tried to shut her up via physical threats (when she's just advocating for equality) automatically makes her work the most important thing in the world. You can apply the same "it's just videogames, who cares" reductionist argument to almost anything and everything of importance ("it's just a bus seat, who cares?"). The moment someone tries to impose their will using violence, yielding to that threat is just empowering them; I thought that much would be self-evident!
Imru al-Qays
Banned
It's not so much a production values issue as it is a problem of methodology and rigor. Her videos may be informative for a lay audience, but for an academic audience they're just not compelling: her thesis is uninteresting, her use of evidence is selective, and her arguments rest on an implicit causative relationship between fictional portrayal and real-world behavior that simply isn't mainstream anywhere in the academy. Maybe she's capable of producing a more serious critique and chooses not to, but I've seen no evidence of this.
Liu Kang Baking A Pie
Member
I don't understand how you got this out of what I said. She talked to the police and got the usual response.
(This is only indirectly a response to your post, so bear with me)
My opinion may be that her current work wouldn't be acceptable as-is, but that's almost beside the point. For one, no one's early work is perfect. But also think of it in these terms: Her goal is to present these concerns to the mainstream. In spite of what most people believe, there's already a good range of academic writing on gender and sexuality in gaming. Problem being, that work isn't promoted, isn't always punchy, and is often over the head of the general population. Frankly, that's the nature of academic writing. It's the same reason news-writing is tailored for what amounts to an 8th-grade reading level.
She's managed to make this conversation show up on people's radars who'd never take a second look at the abstract of say, for example, Evan W. Lauteria. That's true in this community, and it's true of the mainstream. Even if the resulting conversation is about ways she may fail to make a point, the conversation is more widespread. People formulating corrections where they think they're necessary are still achieving something that wouldn't be happening otherwise. People being exposed to her good points are enriched. This outlook is is even more positive for those with high opinions of the project, or the progress it's made. That's a positive process, regardless of your take on the quality of her work. There are obvious concerns about "poisoning the well," if her ideas are too far off-base, or that celebrity is taking the place of merit, but people are more than welcome to create more or better commentary as an addendum.
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