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#GAMERGATE: The Threadening [Read the OP] -- #StopGamerGate2014
- Thread starter besada
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It's no coincidence that these nudes were spread everywhere at the genesis of this whole ordeal.
And people aren't just looking at them, they've been spamming Zoe with them on twitter. Trying to shame and harass her for taking these photos.
Ya, I decided to look at some people who follower her, while watching Steelers SPATAH! face kick Cleveland's punter, and noticed that she gets retweeted by Richard Dawkins, once in awhile(I believe he gets quite a bit of hate from SOME feminist movements). Seems she is part of the "feminist war" and such. So her opinions on having issues with other feminists is...well expected.
I feel like, in this thread, I've spent all day talking about nothing except stuff I hoped would be left to one side. To counter that, some actual content on that whole journalistic integrity thing!
First the image,
And, once you've stopped laughing at this outlandish manifesto, feel free to read this critique of it:
http://redlianak.tumblr.com/post/96858814300/my-observations-on-the-gamergate-list-of-demands
First the image,
And, once you've stopped laughing at this outlandish manifesto, feel free to read this critique of it:
http://redlianak.tumblr.com/post/96858814300/my-observations-on-the-gamergate-list-of-demands
treemasterx
Banned
No matter what you say about this "Flame War", this is Big, Bad and IS going to change gaming forever. It is obvious that we have a community that will be divided, and unfortunately it will take some extreme circumstances to fix the "Greater Gaming Community".
Blech, I can't stand her or that group she writes for.
poorlonelycomputer
Member
Nothing is not politics. Or ever was.
Is that a bad thing?
As far as I'm concerned, gaming has been in need of change for a while.
I absolutely agree, you can already see the parties creeping in to hang the shittiness on the other party to score some points.
Not that those folks even realize what they are doing.
Anywho, everything is politics if people have an opinion on it, even perceived splits.
Palette Swap
Member
The sad thing is that it's so focused on recent events that it doesn't account for the deeper-seated culture issues that favor a more insidious form of "corruption": Microsoft will still be able to give an Xbox to everyone in the room, review events will still happen, reviews will still be embargoed, IGN will still have one of their people in a game, bad reviews can still lead to menaces of black listing (see DF Forever) and overall, publications will still depend on publishers for access and advertising. All of this shit is more insulting to gamers than any editorial will ever be.I feel like, in this thread, I've spent all day talking about nothing except stuff I hoped would be left to one side. To counter that, some actual content on that whole journalistic integrity thing!
First the image,
And, once you've stopped laughing at this outlandish manifesto, feel free to read this critique of it:
http://redlianak.tumblr.com/post/96858814300/my-observations-on-the-gamergate-list-of-demands
It very much reads like these guys are batting for team AAA. If people had some balls about journalistic integrity, they'd start by boycotting any game that imposes review embargoes or any unethical practices. Hell, they'd never touch again any product by a company caught astroturfing.
The wording in f is an absolute fallacy that misuses loaded words like "equal rights". Your only right if you disagree with a piece is to go publish an answer yourself somewhere else. Anything else is a privilege, as we have posting privileges on GAF. I'm all for people expressing themselves but this is silly.
TharpDaddy
Member
Gaming enthusiast culture? Sure. I imagine the majority of people who play and buy games have no idea any of this happened, though.
Saw this on twitter:
@hafumado: For the gaming journalists who cry gamers are only white males. Ask how many African Americans work at their site. #GamerGate #NotYourShield
They made similar posts about other sites and so I decided to start a conversation. It immediately became clear that they didn't care about diversity in the games media whatsoever and were only bringing up the topic to deflect criticism. Criticism that they're also misrepresenting. It's fucked up to use a genuinely important issue like diversity in the press as a tool like that.
@hafumado: For the gaming journalists who cry gamers are only white males. Ask how many African Americans work at their site. #GamerGate #NotYourShield
They made similar posts about other sites and so I decided to start a conversation. It immediately became clear that they didn't care about diversity in the games media whatsoever and were only bringing up the topic to deflect criticism. Criticism that they're also misrepresenting. It's fucked up to use a genuinely important issue like diversity in the press as a tool like that.
Noted a few BANNED FROM NEOGAF FOR STATING FACTS badges of honour going up on twitter.
Plus internet celebrity has some sort of expose on reddit bias now. From an insider. Presumably MisterXMedia's insider.
Infuriating that any tidbit that goes up is hailed as a triumph of truth, while anything in the contrary is to be denounced.
I need to step away from there as it is making me want to shout at people.
Plus internet celebrity has some sort of expose on reddit bias now. From an insider. Presumably MisterXMedia's insider.
Infuriating that any tidbit that goes up is hailed as a triumph of truth, while anything in the contrary is to be denounced.
I need to step away from there as it is making me want to shout at people.
Im a transient spectral incarnation of genuinly imprtant issues who cares about #GamerGate and Im #NotYourShield so u dont get 2 spk 4 me
EDIT: honestly? I have no idea if I'm doing it right.
Correct.
Christina Hoff Sommers is a professional anti-feminist, in the sense that she is hostile to the espoused concerns of feminism, claims that feminists routinely lie, and that information offered by feminism is largely false. While she calls herself a feminist, her brand of feminism, power feminism is notable for its hostility to traditional feminist concerns (e.g. domestic, violence, sexual assault, education, gap in wage earnings, etc.), and is feminist only in the nominal sense that they agree that there should be equal rights. Power feminism is notable for contributing to the denial of research into the prevalence of rape, because power feminists felt that rape was being misused to describe ordinary sexual relations, and set about misrepresenting respected research in the field into order to argue that point. Their opposition to this, as well as research into domestic violence, also stems from the fact that they feel that the problem with women is that they are thinking of themselves as victims; that the only thing holding women back from equality is their failure to grab what is already available to them.
So, no, she's not feminist in the sense that most people use the term, and self-identified feminists would not recognize Christina Hoff Sommers' as their own.
Nice little article on Not Your Mama's Gamer, which puts into perspective how the rhetoric and terror really affect people and their inclination to air their experiences:
http://www.samanthablackmon.net/notyourmamasgamer/?p=5631
http://www.samanthablackmon.net/notyourmamasgamer/?p=5631
MHWilliams
Member
I feel like, in this thread, I've spent all day talking about nothing except stuff I hoped would be left to one side. To counter that, some actual content on that whole journalistic integrity thing!
First the image,
Let's see:
a) Full disclosure should be the norm, so I have no problem with that.
b) This one is a bit weird, as most journalists with a significant conflict of interest just won't cover a subject. See (c)
c) If I decide not to cover something due to a conflict of interest, I have to tell you? Quite odd.
d) I think a tag marking something as an op-ed, opinion, or editorial is enough. Tags exist and are widely used for a reason.
e) Sure? That's basic journalism stuff.
f) Nope. Website is no different from a forum. You leave comments that follow our code of conduct, or you don't leave comments at all. This line is almost laughable. You can go elsewhere to discuss an article if it gets your ire up that much.
g) A review is about the reviewer's experience with a product. This includes things beyond the mechanics, presentation, and performance. So, I disagree with this one out right.
I tweeted at that with a simple "Hi."
Ya, this is my biggest beef with the "concept" of #GamerGate.
Corruption has been widespread and well-known in the industry for a long, long, long time, but all of a sudden it's an issue now.
(As for free Xboxes and stuff like that during conferences, reputable sites often give those away in prize packs.)
PseudoKirby
Banned
I cant find the original post but
I dont think ANYONE can go online to play a game without being called a thousand different names. its universal hate not just at women.
[disclaimer I do not think its ok for women to get hate, I just wish people wouldnt act as if its exclusive to women, although they get more attention online overall.]
I dont think ANYONE can go online to play a game without being called a thousand different names. its universal hate not just at women.
[disclaimer I do not think its ok for women to get hate, I just wish people wouldnt act as if its exclusive to women, although they get more attention online overall.]
Weltall Zero
Member
What the actual fuck. So it's OK to be a racist, sexist asshole as long as you (later claim to be) trolling? If you engage in hate speech you deserve ever last gram of shit thrown at you, even if you did it for the lulz.
Seriously, I'm reading the most out there bizarro world logic in GAF the last few days.
I feel like, in this thread, I've spent all day talking about nothing except stuff I hoped would be left to one side. To counter that, some actual content on that whole journalistic integrity thing!
First the image,
And, once you've stopped laughing at this outlandish manifesto, feel free to read this critique of it:
http://redlianak.tumblr.com/post/96858814300/my-observations-on-the-gamergate-list-of-demands
Oh wow, could you imagine how fucking dry and boring that publication would be. Answer: like a desert.
And look at g) ! "You must review the game in a sort of weird vacuum. Incidentally, our favourite game is noughts and crosses.".
The bile directed at women is a lot more insidious.
Riposte
Member
Power feminism, as in Naomi Wolf's work?
Mmhm. It fits a pattern that happens on the internet generally; it would be a surprise to find that women in gaming don't experience more harassment.
Imru al-Qays
Banned
MLK was considered one of those mealy-mouthed, ineffectual moderates by a lot of his allies.
Well...
1.) Publications have tried this. Most have backed down in the face of reader backlash. People reading these sites crave scores. Just look at GAF and the review score threads.
2.) You're basically asking sites to slit their own throats. If they can't publish previews, what does that leave them? Just reviews and possibly news? Readers would abandon sites by the truckload. Again, just look at GAF.
3.) Kind of wishy-washy, but the one suggestion you make that may have some merit. But you're also endangering the ability of a writer to ask some really probing questions.
Yeah. Samantha Allen did a piece on it with a lot of references if anyone is interested in further reading about being a woman in online spaces.
Also, I listened to a podcast yesterday that claimed that using the word 'harassment' is too reductive and downplays the actual act of being "harassed online" (what we would normally call it). They argued that it would be more appropriate to refer to the experiences that people like Sarkeesian experience to be "terrorizzation, as in her experience is about being bullied and threatened in order to be silenced or go away.
I.e. I'm not even sure if 'harassment' fully captures what it means to be threatened and intimidated online like what Sarkeesian and Quinn and others are experiencing.
I was watching the Chinese League of Legends Regional Semi-Finals last night which features a female commentator on colour and a male on play by play. For whatever reason I had Twitch chat open. Closed it pretty quickly. It was just a stream of people commenting on her appearance and judging as soon as their faces came up. Not sure how you can be a part of the video game community and think the abuse you receive as "anyone" is the same as minority groups -- especially women.
It is a special issue, please read the last 2 pages. You are really not understanding, have severe sociopathic narcissism, or are being disingenuous.
That list of reforms is pretty laughable. Didn't know people actually wanted video game reviews to read like consumer reports articles.
The funny thing is that people were railing against that type of reviewing back in the day. I remember conversations on 1UP Yours about this. But now that game reviews include social criticism that's just not okay.
Do any other media reviews operate this way? Aren't games art?
The funny thing is that people were railing against that type of reviewing back in the day. I remember conversations on 1UP Yours about this. But now that game reviews include social criticism that's just not okay.
Do any other media reviews operate this way? Aren't games art?
Riposte
Member
Art is just about impossible to define, so there's no reason to think social commentary is an element necessary or even productive to it.
Right, it got started with her work in the early 1990s, in Fire with Fire. Another prominent voice is Katie Roiphe, whose [fallacious] rebuttal of Mary Koss' research into rape, The Morning After: Sex, Fear and Feminism on Campus, is what I was alluding to before.
The best analogy I've read for perspective on it is that power feminism relates to the rest of feminism the way Shelby Steele's (a black conservative woman) belief that racial discrimination is longer part of society relates to the anti-racism movement.
The latest gossip is something about Polytron and Indiecade judges racketeering money. I don't particularly find it compelling evidence.
For those who don't want to click the link, they mention how a lot of IGF's judges invested money into Polytron, then made it win IGF awards and used that popularity to cash in on its success. Eh.
http://www.lordkat.com/igf-and-indiecade-racketeering.html
For those who don't want to click the link, they mention how a lot of IGF's judges invested money into Polytron, then made it win IGF awards and used that popularity to cash in on its success. Eh.
http://www.lordkat.com/igf-and-indiecade-racketeering.html
treemasterx
Banned
Before you start saying this is "just video games", CNN MSNBC and FOX NEWS has talked about this.
treemasterx
Banned
Since some or many of these accounts have a possibility of being "burners":
So true
Meanwhile, those gamers will tear each other to shreds over which console is the best (i.e. resolution) to play AAA shooter #28415 or collectively scream on end if their favorite AAA game isn't rated above 9 or 10 out of 10.
also, there's already a site for the people who don't like "opinions" or "social commentary"
I feel like, in this thread, I've spent all day talking about nothing except stuff I hoped would be left to one side. To counter that, some actual content on that whole journalistic integrity thing!
First the image,
And, once you've stopped laughing at this outlandish manifesto, feel free to read this critique of it:
http://redlianak.tumblr.com/post/96858814300/my-observations-on-the-gamergate-list-of-demands
so "We want everything to read like a press release?"
The more I hear people talk about corrupt reviews and what not the more I'm convinced this is just a convenient way to be mad about reviews you don't agree with. I mean hell look at most review threads in here as proof. There are posts that always seem to be pure vitriol simply because the reviewer doesn't like the thing they like the way the poster likes it. This whole gamergate thing seems to fit so well with how those review threads can go, where people are mad because somehow an opinion that doesn't match theirs seems to invalidate their enjoyment of the game or their connection to it. It's like there is some sort of persecution complex that runs through portions of the gaming community. Frankly it's really a shame that some of this movement seems to be people playing victim because of semantics around the term gamer. I mean I'm a little more concerned that people feel threatened in their own home and need to leave simply because they have a different take on gaming culture or someone's personal life evolves into a witch hunt in which their personal live is exposed for all to see when we really have no business in it yet somehow it's been used to champion this wave of spite on the internet. But apparently the term gamer is under attack and we should all be threatened by that, that we can't be identified by a hobby?
Imru’ al-Qays;128874125 said:
And yet, even tho he was perceived that and mostly played by the book he still got shot, which links to the point zeldablue was trying to make about female gamers or other minorities being forced to cater to the social bounds that the community places on them, the problem is that this bounds are constrictive and arbitrary.
These writers are simply never gonna reach the standards that they are setting on them and them alone, the moment those boundaries are broken then all bets are off.
Riposte
Member
I don't know if power feminism can be so cleanly described, when Summers and Wolf have an antagonistic history as far as I know (in context of "Beauty Myth" IIRC). Wolf seems incompatible with American conservatism in a few ways.
On one hand, there is a clear delusion in how power feminism generally deals with the facts that frame a sexist culture or a rape culture, but I also see virtues in an anti-victim-hood point of view in its life-affirming and anti-ressentiment (i.e., Nietzschean) aspects. I can understand why it (if not in parts) is appealing even to self-proclaimed feminists, especially those who've acquired a decent amount of power and status for themselves (i.e., privileged). (EDIT: It could even be boiled down to individualism.)
Neither of these graphs refute his point, which is that all people who play online deal with Harassment. The first one only addresses sexism, not all harassment, and the latter says that women do receive more harassment (Which the poster agreed with) but didn't say men don't.
Games have an impact on our culture, our society, social commentary is needed.
That every other form of art criticism, including that of pop culture works, has evolved to include social commentary at the author's discretion says a lot to me about its value.
Edit: furthermore, what the hell does that have to do with journalistic ethics or integrity?
Riposte
Member
But art remains a highly nebulous concept, if not a nonsensical one at times. People are going to have disagreements on the value of social commentary in criticism (which also happens in these other mediums), but it has nothing to do with art, because nothing has anything to do with art. I'd say the same thing if you tried to invoke the divine and said "Are games holy?" (EDIT: It is also worth noting that there is underlying effect in connecting social commentary and art; games more fitting of social commentary will become more "artistic", which just another abuse of that weird brand to provide status.)
For the record, I'm much more interested in the secondary arguments that arrive from this discussion. I don't really care about the call for more integrity.
Ironically, Anna Anthropy was one of the people most critical of the IGF and scene nepotism and is now a target of #gamergate for journalistic corruption because... she makes a pittance with Patreon and takes about women in games. It's literally the case that the people who have most exposed corruption and nepotism are the people gamergate wants out of the industry.
Article from 2012 about this topic:
http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2012/03/07/the-competition-the-story-behind-the-igfs-critics/
I know I haven't been in here much but just a heads up. LodKaT had been streaming about the "real" problems in the industry and /v/ caught wind of his stream. It's all conspiracy theories on the IGF, indiecades and Maya Kramer. It's all completely stupid but that could very well be the next targets in all this. Short and simple of his conspiracy: Indies are evil and IGF is racketeering.
Also if you're curious to who LordKaT is, he's formally of TGWTG and most famous for his long and stupid rant about Spoony. That rant is also full of fud and he's very much an idiot who can't keep out of someone elses business.
There's really no saving GamerGate, it started as something terrible and will continue to be something terrible.
EDIT: here's on of his posts. http://www.lordkat.com/igf-and-indiecade-racketeering.html
Probably because FEZ is listed in LordKaT's article on IGF racketeering.
Also if you're curious to who LordKaT is, he's formally of TGWTG and most famous for his long and stupid rant about Spoony. That rant is also full of fud and he's very much an idiot who can't keep out of someone elses business.
There's really no saving GamerGate, it started as something terrible and will continue to be something terrible.
EDIT: here's on of his posts. http://www.lordkat.com/igf-and-indiecade-racketeering.html
Probably because FEZ is listed in LordKaT's article on IGF racketeering.
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