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ESPN Suspends Bill Simmons for undiplomatically telling the truth.

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V

ViperVisor

Member
Mike and Mike is a solid if unspectacular morning show.

Greeny is too reactionary and Golic is too detached. The balance works.

First Take can never be respected with Skip's arbitrary favoritism/dis-favoritism being so much what the show is about.
 
F

flyover

Member
For his own sake, I wouldn't blame Simmons for bailing on ESPN. But I would miss him on draft night. The NBA draft show has always been awful until the past couple years, when they finally got the right combo of people together to make it bearable.
 
S

SoulPlaya

more money than God
ViperVisor said:
Mike and Mike is a solid if unspectacular morning show.

Greeny is too reactionary and Golic is too detached. The balance works.

First Take can never be respected with Skip's arbitrary favoritism/dis-favoritism being so much what the show is about.
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I never understand why people still harp about Skip. Do people even watch First Take anymore? Skip barely talks now, and Stephen A takes up 75% of the show with his nonsense. As the past few controversies of Ray Rice and such have shown, Skip is far more reasonable, and it's really Stephen A that's the annoyance.
 
T

TheDrizzlerJ11

Member
SoulPlaya said:
I never understand why people still harp about Skip. Do people even watch First Take anymore? Skip barely talks now, and Stephen A takes up 75% of the show with his nonsense. As the past few controversies of Ray Rice and such have shown, Skip is far more reasonable, and it's really Stephen A that's the annoyance.
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The entire show is annoying.
 
LiquidMetal14

LiquidMetal14

hide your water-based mammals
SoulPlaya said:
I never understand why people still harp about Skip. Do people even watch First Take anymore? Skip barely talks now, and Stephen A takes up 75% of the show with his nonsense. As the past few controversies of Ray Rice and such have shown, Skip is far more reasonable, and it's really Stephen A that's the annoyance.
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The show is tolerable in the grand scheme of things anyway. I like Skip and Stephen A.I guess I just get tired of people hating on everything they see on TV like it's a cool thing. I like Colin Cowherd, I like Mike and Mike, I like Dan Patrick, I like Doug Gottlieb, and I like local Michigan radio. I guess I just enjoy a good personality regardless of whether they they parallel with my thoughts or not.
 
T

TangoAlphaLima

Member
LiquidMetal14 said:
The show is tolerable in the grand scheme of things anyway. I like Skip and Stephen A.I guess I just get tired of people hating on everything they see on TV like it's a cool thing. I like Colin Cowherd, I like Mike and Mike, I like Dan Patrick, I like Doug Gottlieb, and I like local Michigan radio. I guess I just enjoy a good personality regardless of whether they they parallel with my thoughts or not.
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You are Jon Gruden.
 
S

SoulPlaya

more money than God
TheDrizzlerJ11 said:
The entire show is annoying.
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It was made much worse with SAS. At least when it was just Skip, you had a rotation of other panelists that would get brought on to debate him, and Skip would say stuff about sports, and you sort of realized that he was just trying to be entertaining. SAS takes himself too seriously. If he gets 5 minutes of talk time, he'll usually go on for 7 minutes, with 5 of those minutes spent setting up his point, kissing ass, then hyping himself up. He also seems to think of himself as some kind of social philosopher because he gets to talk on a sports network.

ESPN is so insulated that they've actually convinced themselves that sports are the most important thing in the world, and that because they get to work at ESPN that they are somehow important, as well.
 
F

Future PhaZe

Member
Ken Masters said:
Right, a channel filled with NBA players and legends needs a stat geek to be on air with them "dropping knowledge "
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That channel needs content in the worst way. The only good personality they have is Webber, and he's more of a Turner guy these days. They have guys that "know" basketball--Barry, Anderson, Smith, but they are good for putting you to sleep more than anything else, and it's all tied together by Rick Kamla who is a clown.

NBA TV needs entertainers, creativity, and strong creative opinions. Payton has been very good from what I've seen of him. He's Turner tier and hilarious. Talks a lot of good shit too which is the number one requirement.

Get Payton, Simmons, and Webb to run the show over there, bring in a third wheel who's equally as good as Webb for when he's off doing Turner stuff. Malone is funny and has good chemistry with Gary, but he'd need time to cook.
 
S

SoulPlaya

more money than God
Dark FaZe said:
That channel needs content in the worst way. The only good personality they have is Webber, and he's more of a Turner guy these days. They have guys that "know" basketball--Barry, Anderson, Smith, but they are good for putting you to sleep more than anything else, and it's all tied together by Rick Kamla who is a clown.

NBA TV needs entertainers, creativity, and strong creative opinions. Payton has been very good from what I've seen of him. He's Turner tier and hilarious. Talks a lot of good shit too which is the number one requirement.

Get Payton, Simmons, and Webb to run the show over there, bring in a third wheel who's equally as good as Webb for when he's off doing Turner stuff. Malone is funny and has good chemistry with Gary, but he'd need time to cook.
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Just to be clear. Turner owns NBATV.
 
V

ViperVisor

Member
SoulPlaya said:
It was made much worse with SAS. At least when it was just Skip, you had a rotation of other panelists that would get brought on to debate him, and Skip would say stuff about sports, and you sort of realized that he was just trying to be entertaining. SAS takes himself too seriously. If he gets 5 minutes of talk time, he'll usually go on for 7 minutes, with 5 of those minutes spent setting up his point, kissing ass, then hyping himself up. He also seems to think of himself as some kind of social philosopher because he gets to talk on a sports network.

ESPN is so insulated that they've actually convinced themselves that sports are the most important thing in the world, and that because they get to work at ESPN that they are somehow important, as well.
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This is true. SAS is too busy bouncing from city to city and doing his own radio show to know much of anything other than Basketball. A lot of his talk is fluff.
The rotating panel of people who came vs. the king troll was more entertaining.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
HarryDemeanor said:
Looks like Bill is out the door anyway. He's better off without ESPN.
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You mean the company that he should thank for helping him create Grantland?

entrement said:
Don't they get huge ratings? Mike and Mike that is.
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Yes they do because the show is good. It's not the typical sports radio hot garbage. It's a bland show, yes. But if you want to wake up in the morning and get the top level information on what happened the day before (or any breaking news that drops in the morning), Mike and Mike is a great radio show to listen to. They tend not to do the shock jock stuff like some other shows and that's good for me.
 
R

ryseing

Member
It's worth noting that Yoshida (one of the better Grantland writers) just left for The Verge.

I can definitely see Simmons leaving with Lowe, Barnwell, Browne, and possibly Sharp/Greenwald to a less restrictive corporate parent. Unsure about the contract details of all but Simmons though.
 
S

spyder_ur

Member
ryseing said:
It's worth noting that Yoshida (one of the better Grantland writers) just left for The Verge.

I can definitely see Simmons leaving with Lowe, Barnwell, Browne, and possibly Sharp/Greenwald to a less restrictive corporate parent. Unsure about the contract details of all but Simmons though.
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I'd love that, but who is financing that? Maybe someone would, but I've never gotten the sense that Grantland was a huge money maker or anything. It always seemed like it was Simmons' pet project. Surely, it's had peripheral benefits like exposure and developing great young writers (Jonathan Abrams' and Jay Caspian Kang's pieces are some of the best stuff in recent years), but it always seemed to me that Grantland was developed to keep Simmons in the fold.

It's one of my favorite sites; I'm a bit worried about its future.
 
C

CastleRybread

Member
The only ESPN radio show worth a damn is Dan Lebatard because he says and does things that are unique. Every other radio show is cookie cutter garbage.

Simmons has a right to be angry but nothing will happen because Mike and Mike are company guys through and through.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
CastleRybread said:
The only ESPN radio show worth a damn is Dan Lebatard because he says and does things that are unique. Every other radio show is cookie cutter garbage.

Simmons has a right to be angry but nothing will happen because Mike and Mike are company guys through and through.
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Agreed. Dan can be slightly obnoxious at times (especially on TV and I can't stand Bomani) but he and Stugotz are great on the radio.
 
D

Dion Blaster

Member
Ken Masters said:
Right, a channel filled with NBA players and legends needs a stat geek to be on air with them "dropping knowledge "
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I think you overvalue how much insight these legends actually bring to the table. Look at the carnival of stupid on every NFL pregame show. I think it would healthy to have a mix of stat geeks and journalists to go along with coaches and players.
 
F

Fjordson

Member
Dion Blaster said:
I think you overvalue how much insight these legends actually bring to the table. Look at the carnival of stupid on every NFL pregame show. I think it would healthy to have a mix of stat geeks and journalists to go along with coaches and players.
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Yeah, happens on ESPN too. Just listen to a guy like Magic (or look at his Twitter lol). Dudes aren't always good at communicating knowledge of the game.
 
A

Archaix

Drunky McMurder
Ken Masters said:
Right, a channel filled with NBA players and legends needs a stat geek to be on air with them "dropping knowledge "
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Stat geeks who spend all of their time watching and reading and writing about basketball frequently have a far wider understanding of basketball than people who spent all of their time playing it.
 
I

iamblades

Member
Dion Blaster said:
I think you overvalue how much insight these legends actually bring to the table. Look at the carnival of stupid on every NFL pregame show. I think it would healthy to have a mix of stat geeks and journalists to go along with coaches and players.
Click to expand...

Charles Barkley is the only former player that is now an analyst that brings much actual insight at all to what they do, and he is on TNT.

Most of the former players get caught up in the sort of 'everyone is awesome, everything is good' mindset because they don't want to criticize the players and GMs and coaches they still have relationships with.

Chuck don't give a fuck tho. He says what he wants.

Magic is one of the best players to ever play the game and has probably forgotten more basketball than Bill Simmons will ever know, but that doesn't make him a good analyst at all. Magic gives the most non-opinion opinions it is possible to give.
 
A

AAAnonymous

Banned
LyleLanley said:
What Mike and Mike said seemed kind of strange
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Yeah, first time I hear of anything from those 2 that wasn't warmed-over pablum. Probably still a garbage show tho.

Simmons was good, but then he got that Grantland site and filled it with "advanced stats" guys and "cultural events journalists", and stopped working 1/2 the year. Meh, he's not so good anymore, not good enough to save it.
 
A

AAAnonymous

Banned
iamblades said:
Chuck don't give a fuck tho. He says what he wants.
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Stephen A Smith is a poor man's Barkley. SAS just makes crazy predictions, hoping they come true so he can say "I told you so"! Barkley actually knows his diarrhea (is swearing allowed on this forum?), and is fun.
 
A

Abounder

Banned
The Sportscast with Spider and the Henchman is the only basketball show that kept it real, but the sound quality was crap. If Bill Simmons leaves I wonder if he'd be crazy enough to have a show on Adam Carolla's network. Simmons is more than a stat guy, he's popular and uses a ton of references like a bad comedian does, and he'll make millions with or without ESPN
 
F

Fjordson

Member
AAAnonymous said:
Yeah, first time I hear of anything from those 2 that wasn't warmed-over pablum. Probably still a garbage show tho.

Simmons was good, but then he got that Grantland site and filled it with "advanced stats" guys and "cultural events journalists", and stopped working 1/2 the year. Meh, he's not so good anymore, not good enough to save it.
Click to expand...
Grantland still puts out lots of good articles, though. They have some great writers.
 
S

SoulClap

Member
iamblades said:
Charles Barkley is the only former player that is now an analyst that brings much actual insight at all to what they do, and he is on TNT.

Most of the former players get caught up in the sort of 'everyone is awesome, everything is good' mindset because they don't want to criticize the players and GMs and coaches they still have relationships with.

Chuck don't give a fuck tho. He says what he wants.
Click to expand...

If we're talking about actual basketball analysis, Check is terrible. Guys like Greg Anthony, Chris Webber and Kenny are much better in that respect.
 
D

Deadly Joker

Member
CastleRybread said:
The only ESPN radio show worth a damn is Dan Lebatard because he says and does things that are unique. Every other radio show is cookie cutter garbage.

Simmons has a right to be angry but nothing will happen because Mike and Mike are company guys through and through.
Click to expand...

This is so true. Lebatard is the best. It's the only radio show I listen to every day. I also like SVP and Russilo.
 
G

gogosox82

Member
SoulPlaya said:
I never understand why people still harp about Skip. Do people even watch First Take anymore? Skip barely talks now, and Stephen A takes up 75% of the show with his nonsense. As the past few controversies of Ray Rice and such have shown, Skip is far more reasonable, and it's really Stephen A that's the annoyance.
Click to expand...

Yep this. Somehow, SAS has turned Skip into the straight man and he's the screaming crazy person.

Deadly Joker said:
This is so true. Lebatard is the best. It's the only radio show I listen to every day. I also like SVP and Russilo.
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This as well. Lebatard is great. I've warmed up to SVP and Russilo. At first, I didn't like them but I like their chemistry together.
 
B

brianjones

Member
iuUpbS8trI2rN.gif
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
Mike Golic @espngolic 15m
Spoke to Bill, all is good. I will discuss on show
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^

Personally, I like Mike & Mike, Golic more than Greenberg, and I like Simmons. Can't we just all get along?

SVP & Russillo is better, though, and Le Batard is the best sports show going.
 
G

Get'sMad

Member
yeah Lebatard's radio show owns..its the only ESPN radio show I can really tolerate. Its especially good when Bomani is on too.
 
T

Tempesta di Fuoco

Banned
Rainy said:
Well this looks like a short lived feud.

Sometimes I get really tired of them talking about College Football.
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I can't stand any radio show when it comes to College Football.

"CAN YOU BELIEVE THIS COLLEGE IS RANKED 6TH AND NOT 5TH THAT'S CRAZY"

*Cue 2 hours talking about stupid college rankings*
 
C

cacophony

Member
Simmons definitely hates his job at ESPN lol

This reminds me of the Seinfeld where George is trying to get fired from the Yankees
 
R

Randolph Freelander

Member
cacophony said:
Simmons definitely hates his job at ESPN lol

This reminds me of the Seinfeld where George is trying to get fired from the Yankees
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That popped into my head, too.

"Now that guy got canned!"

Le Batard and Stugotz are indirectly directly indirectly talking about the Golic/Simmons tiff in the vein of sports media members, who are critical of others by default, are routinely overly sensitive when it comes to criticism of their own work.
 
D

Draxal

Member
http://espn.go.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/462/strengths-weaknesses-and-suspensions

Interesting but old article about Simmons from the outgoing ESPN ombudsman.

But Skipper certainly thought it was, and that insubordination was one of the main two reasons for the severity of the suspension. Particularly on podcasts, Skipper said, Simmons has a tendency to slip back into his “bad boy, let’s-go-to-Vegas” persona. Simmons, Skipper believes, is transitioning into an important influence and mentor at Grantland and needs to leave his well-worn punkishness behind.
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His current article is pretty interesting.

http://espn.go.com/blog/ombudsman/post/_/id/477/probing-the-gray-areas-of-espns-journalism

I think this matches my current take of ESPN.

Not everyone agrees. Sandy Padwe, a former editor at The New York Times and Sports Illustrated who has taught at the Columbia School of Journalism since 1989, takes a hard-eyed view (he was also a consultant at ESPN for 19 years).

“Journalism is important to ESPN when it needs it,” he said, “meaning when critics look at the whole product and wonder why it seems 99 percent of the daily report is devoted to noise and the current name of the moment. Then the network points to 'Outside the Lines' or some of the recent reporting on Roger Goodell.

“ESPN will mature when it starts bringing in people from the newest production assistant to the glitziest commentators who know how to diagram a courthouse as well as diagram the latest offense or defense. You can't get by anymore with a handful of people who know journalism and literally thousands who have no idea about it. What does it say when Bill Simmons doesn't even understand that he needs proof before calling Roger Goodell a liar?”
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He takes a shot at the readers in general as well.

The third target for blame is Simmons’ fan base, which is younger, more male and less conservative than ESPN’s overall audience, at least based on my mail. It’s an audience that can imagine itself hanging out with Simmons, arguing hoops and best “Game of Thrones” lines. It’s an audience that puts pressure on Simmons to fulfill its fantasy of him as an older brother role model, a rebel in the benign father-knows-best world of ESPN. So every so often he gets grounded, they seem to say? Big deal.
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and his final thought.

As for ESPN, it needs to be clearer about which rules of journalism it is going to enforce and why they need to be enforced equally in print and on pod, on Grantland and “SportsCenter” and “GameDay” and perhaps even on “partner projects.” ESPN needs to be more transparent about the role of journalism in its business model, the purpose behind it and how committed it is to supporting it.
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