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DidntKnowJack · Dec 31, 2014

ShamePain said:
Lol at the mad DC fanboys that aren't willing to accept that it's art style is far from photorealistic.

ShamePain said:
Dat sony damage control

You're not doing your arguments any favors by posting these kinds of things. I respect people's different views, hell I think all of the major players in this discussion are at least looking like very good games, but playing the fanboy card isn't furthering any meaningful conversation. I am a big fan of Driveclub, not just the visuals but the overall fun and addictive nature, but that doesn't mean I'm dismissive of the other games being talked about. I want to play them all.

I will say I think some people are being too hard on some aspects of Project Cars, especially when its still in development. For me, it looks to be shaping up to a game I'll be happy to dive into when it finally releases. The more racing games, the better as far as I'm concerned. Especially after last generation, where I think racing games were kind of going through the motions. With some exceptions, of course.

ShamePain · Dec 31, 2014

DirgeExtinction said:
I quote:

The difference is that GT swaps out car models for higher fidelity ones, while supersampling the image. DC, on the other hand, just adds another pass of AA. Maybe it does something to shadows, but I haven't really paid attention to that. If you want, you can add more blur and such, but that's optional.

When it comes to the models, lighting, and environment, what you see is what you get with DC photomode.

Gran Turismo doesn't swap models or the lighting in the photo mode. And it's models have better detail than DC.

Windom Earle · Dec 31, 2014

ShamePain said:
So just because DC fails at producing a photo real image and I can always tell it's a game because of it's art style means I'm talking BS?

Let me quote you:

ShamePain said:
It's all subjective, to me DC looks gamey and I can easily tell it's a game from the screenshots.

So if this looks gamey to you, what do the other racers look like? Lego?

ShamePain said:
Gran Turismo doesn't swap models or the lighting in the photo mode. And it's models have better detail than DC.

Wrong. Same for Forza.

icecold1983 · Dec 31, 2014

ShamePain said:
Gran Turismo doesn't swap models or the lighting in the photo mode. And it's models have better detail than DC.

you cant actually believe this

PlayALLtheGames · Dec 31, 2014

ShamePain said:
There is a difference between being realistic and being photorealistic.

hotnheavyload · Dec 31, 2014

schennmu said:
Let me quote you:

So if this looks gamey to you, what do the other racers look like? Lego?

Wrong. Same for Forza.

I really like this thread because I like looking at the pretty pictures and .gifs, and I'll preface this by saying that all of these games have rubbish weather effects compared to Harvest Moon on the SNES, but DriveClub's lighting has always looked dramatically enhanced for mood rather than realism, thus I would agree that it looks "gamey".

As for Forza, it's a lot more subdued and "realistic" for lack of a better term, but that doesn't mean it's more or less appealing.

XxRampage07xX · Dec 31, 2014

ShamePain said:
So just because DC fails at producing a photo real image and I can always tell it's a game because of it's art style means I'm talking BS?

To answer your question:

benzy said:
Lol at the salt.

Such an unrealistic art direction.

ShamePain said:
There is a difference between being realistic and being photorealistic.

You didn't even deny that gif and tried to spin it to "It doesn't look good enough to be photorealistic." Just stop posting already! As everybody agrees that DC looks so freaking real, you already lose. No need to downplay DC any further.

ShamePain · Dec 31, 2014

schennmu said:
So if this looks gamey to you, what do the other racers look like? Lego?

Wrong. Same for Forza.

It looks like any other racer, advanced effects and all, but photorealism is not achieved and I don't think they ever said it was their goal.

Yiazmat · Dec 31, 2014

ShamePain said:
Gran Turismo doesn't swap models or the lighting in the photo mode. And it's models have better detail than DC.

schennmu said:
Wrong. Same for Forza.

Looks like the same model to me

DirgeExtinction · Dec 31, 2014

Yiazmat said:
Looks like the same model to me

What game is that?
Never mind, just saw the corner of the second pic

Yeesh, that looks bad.

FlutterPuffs · Dec 31, 2014

OneStopCandyShop said:
I really like this thread because I like looking at the pretty pictures and .gifs, and I'll preface this by saying that all of these games have rubbish weather effects compared to Harvest Moon on the SNES, but DriveClub's lighting has always looked dramatically enhanced for mood rather than realism, thus I would agree that it looks "gamey".

As for Forza, it's a lot more subdued and "realistic" for lack of a better term, but that doesn't mean it's more or less appealing.

Except that, the weather is simulated. Everything is. It hasn't been tinkered to look dramatic.

Muppet of a Man · Dec 31, 2014

OneStopCandyShop said:
I really like this thread because I like looking at the pretty pictures and .gifs, and I'll preface this by saying that all of these games have rubbish weather effects compared to Harvest Moon on the SNES, but DriveClub's lighting has always looked dramatically enhanced for mood rather than realism, thus I would agree that it looks "gamey".

As for Forza, it's a lot more subdued and "realistic" for lack of a better term, but that doesn't mean it's more or less appealing.

It is actually the opposite. DC's lighting model is so realistic that it is often flat (unflattering) lighting at certain times of the day and under certain weather conditions. Forza's lighting model suffers from "bling" lighting, with exorbitant amounts of bloom and "God rays".

TheAdmiester · Dec 31, 2014

DirgeExtinction said:
What game is that?
Never mind, just saw the corner of the second pic

Yeesh, that looks bad.

Not bad for a 2010 game on the PS3.

DirgeExtinction · Dec 31, 2014

TheAdmiester said:
Not bad for a 2010 game on the PS3.

That's true. Does GT6 look any better?

thewhitehawk · Dec 31, 2014

These higher-resolution but not really, either, great-looking and feature-rich racing games do absolutely nothing for my racing itch. We've never had as great graphics fidelity as we do now, and we've never had as many racing games that look so similar.

I'm tired to death of these mid-forest roads, mountain-side roads with an occasional little village. Need for Speed used to have tracks where you had shortcuts through dinossaur bones and drive through a city that was a gigantic aquarium. Nowadays you have a choice of driving through a forest in a Lamborghini or a Ferrari.

Mario Kart 8 for me wins by a landslide. The tracks are imaginative, gorgeous and whimsical and the soundtrack perfectly accentuates them as a tightly woven package. It's fun and creative, you can ride a kart, a bug, a motorcycle, a mercedes.

If you want to sit on a sofa with your friends and point at Driveclub's clouds and how pretty they are then for you that might be the best looking game, but the game that brought the most joy, fun in an immensely beautiful and perfectly crafted package is Mario Kart 8. Every other racer this year is filler until either Forza fixes their act or the next Gran Turismo comes out (sorry PC racing-simulator fans but in the greater scope of audience, most of the PC simulators are irrelevant compared to GT or Forza, despite being superior in many regards).

TheAdmiester · Dec 31, 2014

DirgeExtinction said:
That's true. Does GT6 look any better?

Lighting wise it looks better, although in motion some tracks are worse because of some weird shadow flickering issue.

As for the aliasing in the top (gameplay) picture, that'll be reduced too, because the game was upgraded from GT5's resolution of 1280x1080 to 1440x1080.

Windom Earle · Dec 31, 2014

OneStopCandyShop said:
I really like this thread because I like looking at the pretty pictures and .gifs, and I'll preface this by saying that all of these games have rubbish weather effects compared to Harvest Moon on the SNES, but DriveClub's lighting has always looked dramatically enhanced for mood rather than realism, thus I would agree that it looks "gamey".

As for Forza, it's a lot more subdued and "realistic" for lack of a better term, but that doesn't mean it's more or less appealing.

I don't even know where to start with this one... Care to provide some Forza footage maybe?

Yiazmat said:
Looks like the same model to me

Looks like it. Maybe GT is only using those insane models in Photo Travel mode? GT is certainly switching to some super LOD mode in certain areas, has been discussed to death on GAF.

ShamePain said:
It looks like any other racer, advanced effects and all, but photorealism is not achieved and I don't think they ever said it was their goal.

Nobody claims that DC is absolutely photorealistic though. It is mostly you moving goal posts.

ShamePain · Dec 31, 2014

Some comparison pics.

motorised mallard · Dec 31, 2014

ShamePain said:
Some comparison pics.

And?

I know really short posts are frowned upon but nothing comes to my mind.

benzy · Dec 31, 2014

OneStopCandyShop said:
I really like this thread because I like looking at the pretty pictures and .gifs, and I'll preface this by saying that all of these games have rubbish weather effects compared to Harvest Moon on the SNES, but DriveClub's lighting has always looked dramatically enhanced for mood rather than realism, thus I would agree that it looks "gamey".

As for Forza, it's a lot more subdued and "realistic" for lack of a better term, but that doesn't mean it's more or less appealing.

Driveclub's "enhanced mood" during these certain time conditions is actually imitating the look of what the devs saw in real life after traveling to these locations.

Windom Earle · Dec 31, 2014

Probably posted but why not crash Chrome some more. Stolen from the Wii U thread (lol)

hooijdonk17 · Dec 31, 2014

I really can't believe the people who are calling DC's visuals 'gamey' and not 'photo-realistic'. I'm a PC gamer at first, been a 360 owner last gen, never owned a single PS console in my life, and I can easily see that it's not only the most visually appeasing of the lot. Forza stands out as the glaring worst, and Project Cars has absolutely terrific cars and absolutely horrific tracks, the only thing that redeems it is the crazy PC muscle that can push incredible amounts of filtering, AA and resolution from the engine.

That's what my eye tells me, anyhow.

I'm really curious about how Asetto Corsa managed to drop out of the conversation completely though..

EDIT: Holy SHIT @ post above.. I think I will have to buy my first PS console because of Drive Club..

Putty · Dec 31, 2014

hooijdonk17 said:
I really can't believe the people who are calling DC's visuals 'gamey' and not 'photo-realistic'. I'm a PC gamer at first, been a 360 owner last gen, never owned a single PS console in my life, and I can easily see that it's not only the most visually appeasing of the lot. Forza stands out as the glaring worst, and Project Cars has absolutely terrific cars and absolutely horrific tracks, the only thing that redeems it is the crazy PC muscle that can push incredible amounts of filtering, AA and resolution from the engine.

That's what my eye tells me, anyhow.

I'm really curious about how Asetto Corsa managed to drop out of the conversation completely though..

EDIT: Holy SHIT @ post above.. I think I will have to buy my first PS console because of Drive Club..

Well said, especially about PCars.

Windom Earle · Dec 31, 2014

hooijdonk17 said:
I'm really curious about how Asetto Corsa managed to drop out of the conversation completely though..

Assetto Corsa is amazing, but unfortunately it seems to be too much of a sim (and is not on consoles) so it gets ignored on GAF. From a gameplay perspective it pretty much destroys GT/Forza/PC, etc. and deserves more love. Also from an audio and graphics perspective it is a very pleasing game.

Some 60fps footage I posted on Gamersyde some time ago:

car: http://www.gamersyde.com/thqstream_...ari_458_gt2_pre_race-olFez4oPx2MLXf2q_en.html
cockpit lap: http://www.gamersyde.com/thqstream_...8_gt2_imola_cockpit_-RuratswutHlCZCgM_en.html
replay lap:http://www.gamersyde.com/thqstream_...errari_458_gt2_imola-7wYtqQjtY50PQaBw_en.html

Caddle · Dec 31, 2014

schennmu said:
I'd rather do that in GTA5 which does it better anyway. I like my racing games being about actual racing.

GTA look better than fh2, I suggest you stop smoking. Oh you mean the actual racing, now your definitely delusional. Nothing about driving cars in GTA is what I would consider good, they all control like shit, and I don't remember driving through vegetation, looking anything like what is in fh2.

Windom Earle · Dec 31, 2014

Caddle said:
GTA look better than fh2, I suggest you stop smoking.

Never said that. But it's more detailed, bigger and interactive if you just want to cruise.

edit: I see you added additional nonsense to your post now. You seem very upset and the point is flying over your head.

icecold1983 · Dec 31, 2014

schennmu said:
Assetto Corsa is amazing, but unfortunately it seems to be too much of a sim (and is not on consoles) so it gets ignored on GAF. From a gameplay perspective it pretty much destroys GT/Forza/PC, etc. and deserves more love. Also from an audio and graphics perspective it is a very pleasing game.

Some 60fps footage I posted on Gamersyde some time ago:

car: http://www.gamersyde.com/thqstream_...ari_458_gt2_pre_race-olFez4oPx2MLXf2q_en.html
cockpit lap: http://www.gamersyde.com/thqstream_...8_gt2_imola_cockpit_-RuratswutHlCZCgM_en.html
replay lap:http://www.gamersyde.com/thqstream_...errari_458_gt2_imola-7wYtqQjtY50PQaBw_en.html

Because gameplay is irrelevant to this discussion and graphically its very unimpressive

Caddle · Dec 31, 2014

More detail how, give me an example. More city environment, I would agree, but as far as detail, hell no!!!!! It looks like a last gen game which is it.

Windom Earle · Dec 31, 2014

icecold1983 said:
Because gameplay is irrelevant to this discussion and graphically its very unimpressive

I know that it does not win awards graphically, but it still has its moments. Maybe it does not belong into this thread but the game is still criminally underrated on GAF.

Caddle said:
More detail how, give me an example. More city environment, I would agree, but as far as detail, hell no!!!!! It looks like a last gen game which is it.

Calm down and breathe. More detail in terms of... There is an actual world to explore!
Driving around in an empty open world is bland and just detracts from the racing experience. I am not talking about graphics here, read the post I quoted.

JNA · Dec 31, 2014

ShamePain said:
Lol at the mad DC fanboys that aren't willing to accept that it's art style is far from photorealistic.

ShamePain said:
There is a difference between being realistic and being photorealistic.

ShamePain said:
Dat sony damage control

Cheeseman Battitude · Dec 31, 2014

The perception of Driveclub is that it sacrifices advanced sim physics for its graphics and style of play, which is quite possibly the case. So now that we've seen what the PS4 can do with Driveclub, can we expect the next generation of PC sims to have that level of graphics or is there just too much going on "behind the scenes" in PC sims for this to be the case even on a PC?

foolishoptimist · Dec 31, 2014

I think that DC looks gamey, but only in certain circumstances, primarily under the bright midday sun.

But with day/night cycles moving fast, and the new dynamic weather system these circumstances are fleeting.

icecold1983 · Dec 31, 2014

Cheeseman Battitude said:
The perception of Driveclub is that it sacrifices advanced sim physics for its graphics and style of play, which is quite possibly the case. So now that we've seen what the PS4 can do with Driveclub, can we expect the next generation of PC sims to have that level of graphics or is there just too much going on "behind the scenes" in PC sims for this to be the case even on a PC?

pc has plenty of power to do it. pcars is highly gpu limited, the developers just arent very good tbh. none of their games have ever been good from a graphics tech standpoint. GTR 2 anyone?

hooijdonk17 · Dec 31, 2014

icecold1983 said:
pc has plenty of power to do it. pcars is highly gpu limited, the developers just arent very good tbh. none of their games have ever been good from a graphics tech standpoint. GTR 2 anyone?

GTR2, Race:WTCC, drive like a dream, look like shit. OK, that's an exaggeration, but honestly, That they failed to improve so little with GTR-2 over GTR was an amazing underwhelmton at the time.

IAmRandom31 · Dec 31, 2014

I love now someone makes up a word like " gamey ", assigns some BS description for it and then you see others jump in and start using that term too.

Gamey .... Lol

DriveClub has the most realistic lighting I have ever seen, night or day ... Or sunrise or sunset of when the area suddenly lights up from a storm, etc.

If it's gamey then other games need to incorporate more gamey lighting

Putty · Dec 31, 2014

IAmRandom31 said:
I love now someone makes up a word like " gamey ", assigns some BS description for it and then you see others jump in and start using that term too.

Gamey .... Lol

DriveClub has the most realistic lighting I have ever seen, night or day ... Or sunrise or sunset of when the area suddenly lights up from a storm, etc.

If it's gamey then other games need to incorporate more gamey lighting

Yep, more of this fake gamely lighting please! Real life sucks anyway.

RefigeKru · Dec 31, 2014

There is a difference between being realistic and being photorealistic.

FlutterPuffs · Dec 31, 2014

Cheeseman Battitude said:
The perception of Driveclub is that it sacrifices advanced sim physics for its graphics and style of play, which is quite possibly the case. So now that we've seen what the PS4 can do with Driveclub, can we expect the next generation of PC sims to have that level of graphics or is there just too much going on "behind the scenes" in PC sims for this to be the case even on a PC?

....no, there's no sacrifice, just a different way of handling.

Mabufu · Dec 31, 2014

Muppet of a Man said:
It is actually the opposite. DC's lighting model is so realistic that it is often flat (unflattering) lighting at certain times of the day and under certain weather conditions. Forza's lighting model suffers from "bling" lighting, with exorbitant amounts of bloom and "God rays".

This.

If you have the sun straight up on the sky, with no clouds and no objects casting shadows, colors are gonna look flat and there will be no God Rays or other cool illumination effects. Just flat colors like it would be on reality.

That, nevertheless, makes the other graphic limitations more noticeable. Dont forget we are talking about a 400$ box, and the photorealism that have been achieved on weather and some time conditions is still the best seen on any game.

The engine already have what it needs to get photerealism. If PS4 was more powerful, devs could just add more detail and life to the enviroments, and we all would just shit our pants.

madmackem · Dec 31, 2014

OneStopCandyShop said:
I really like this thread because I like looking at the pretty pictures and .gifs, and I'll preface this by saying that all of these games have rubbish weather effects compared to Harvest Moon on the SNES, but DriveClub's lighting has always looked dramatically enhanced for mood rather than realism, thus I would agree that it looks "gamey".

As for Forza, it's a lot more subdued and "realistic" for lack of a better term, but that doesn't mean it's more or less appealing.

In what world has any forza been more subdued and realistic looking GTFO, its always had cartoony lighting and overblown colours always.

ICPEE · Dec 31, 2014

ShamePain said:
Dat sony damage control

I needed salt for my popcorn. Much obliged.

Mabufu · Dec 31, 2014

madmackem said:
In what world has any forza been more subdued and realistic looking GTFO, its always had cartoony lighting and overblown colours always.

Lets be honest here.

FH2 can sometimes achieve a more realistic look than DC, evendough being faked with full of cheap tricks. But I think FH2 does it, indeed.

I've been really impressed with some of the picks I saw, and I would never say that those pics looks gamey or cartoony.

haZethew0rld · Dec 31, 2014

ShamePain said:
Lol at the mad DC fanboys that aren't willing to accept that it's art style is far from photorealistic.

ShamePain said:
There is a difference between being realistic and being photorealistic.

ShamePain said:
Dat sony damage control

Cheeseman Battitude · Dec 31, 2014

FH2 is in the uncanny valley for me.

madmackem · Dec 31, 2014

Mabufu said:
Lets be honest here.

FH2 can sometimes achieve a more realistic look than DC, evendough being faked with full of cheap tricks. But I think FH2 does it, indeed.

I've been really impressed with some of the picks I saw, and I would never say that those pics looks gamey or cartoony.

I love fh2 but it always looks cartoony to me, the colours of the cars the world always look over done, doesnt stop it being a fun as hell game but realistic nah not for me.

Windom Earle · Dec 31, 2014

Cheeseman Battitude said:
FH2 is in the uncanny valley for me.

Not as uncanny as Drive Club's roads:

leroidys said:
I'm not one to claim that Wii U games touch PS4 graphically, but that last gif is suffering terribly from uncanny valley syndrome. That's not what a wet road looks like, especially going uphill.

ShamePain · Dec 31, 2014

Mabufu said:
Lets be honest here.

FH2 can sometimes achieve a more realistic look than DC, evendough being faked with full of cheap tricks. But I think FH2 does it, indeed.

I've been really impressed with some of the picks I saw, and I would never say that those pics looks gamey or cartoony.

What cheap tricks is FH2 using that DC doesn't?

eso76 · Dec 31, 2014

schennmu said:
Wrong. Same for Forza.

GT doesn't swap models in photo mode, nope.
In photo TRAVEL mode yeah, it uses different models.

Again, Forza (4 and 5) only use full lod in menu, photomode and ingame, for those game modes where only your car is on the track.

Unfortunately, I think T10 were aiming too high when modeling cars: the full LOD models are too geometry heavy to use ingame even on current gen it seems (interior + body + wheels etc can be up to 500k polys in FM4, i suspect slightly more in FM5).

Driveclub apparently uses the same lod models (which are NOT as rich in geometry as GT6's or FM5's, but almost) for all cars on the track, which is quite impressive.

Not sure about FH2, it's hard to tell from the vids.

Marlenus · Dec 31, 2014

Cheeseman Battitude said:
The perception of Driveclub is that it sacrifices advanced sim physics for its graphics and style of play, which is quite possibly the case. So now that we've seen what the PS4 can do with Driveclub, can we expect the next generation of PC sims to have that level of graphics or is there just too much going on "behind the scenes" in PC sims for this to be the case even on a PC?

I am not so sure about that regarding drive club. The handling is definitely between sim and arcade but I think under the hood they do have a good simulation running it is just they also have certain aids running like ABS, traction control etc to skew it that way. The question about is are they baked directly into the handling model or are these just modules built on top of the model that could be turned on or off?

Lets be honest here though, if you want a real sim experience you play stuff like IRacing, RFactor etc. Even GT and Forza feel arcade compared to those games.

As far as graphics go it is hands down DriveClub and it is the lighting and PBR that makes it stand out from the rest. The weather patch just highlights how fantastic their rendering and lighting is because of how naturally they interact with each other.

Windom Earle · Dec 31, 2014

eso76 said:
GT doesn't swap models in photo mode, nope.
In photo TRAVEL mode yeah, it uses different models.

Again, Forza (4 and 5) only use full lod in menu, photomode and ingame, for those game modes where only your car is on the track.

Unfortunately, I think T10 were aiming too high when modeling cars: the full LOD models are too geometry heavy to use ingame even on current gen it seems (interior + body + wheels etc can be up to 500k polys in FM4, i suspect slightly more in FM5).

Driveclub apparently uses the same lod models (which are NOT as rich in geometry as GT6's or FM5's, but almost) for all cars on the track, which is quite impressive.

Not sure about FH2, it's hard to tell from the vids.

Thanks for clarifying about GT, it's been some time.

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