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The Official Halo 3 Thread

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M

Mr Vociferous

Member
GhaleonEB said:
How could I have ever doubted?
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T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Hi,

I was hoping the kind folks of Bungie could take a look at this game and hopefully ban the cheaters we just faced. http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=1150597592&player=NYSTOFMIND23 We won somehow but early on 1 of our teammates was black screen and then after we took a huge lead, they booted out 1 of our guys. After retaining the lead, I was then sent to black screen and then eventually booted out of the match. Somehow, my remaining 2 teammates managed to win the match. We were fortunate but maybe others weren't. Please lay down the banhammer on these goons!

-Tashi


EDIT: They just did it again!!!

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=1150636803&player=NYSTOFMIND23

That guy Chea I'm da bomb has over 70000 custom games played as well. These guys are real scum bags, take em down!
 
R

Roquentin

Member
EazyB said:
Halo 3's AI is superb but I'm not sure it's set in such a way that would allow for it to adjust dynamically to a limitless variety of environments. IIRC the AI scripting of individual characters are uniquely mapped for each encounter.

If you're really interested in how Bungie does AI, you should check out there publications on the subject. Here's a link. I can understand if you're not that interested though :lol

So yeah, I'd love to see a campaign forge in ODST but given that the game is really working within the framework set by Halo 3, I think it may be out of the realm of possibilities. Hopefully they have more stuff like skulls to change the campaign.
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I'm aware that Halo's AI is heavily scripted, but I didn't mean creating new encounters (at least not in ODST), but rather editing existing ones. Promoting or degrading enemies, giving them different weapon, removing them from encounter. The biggest problem would be adding objects to the environments - that could totally break AI pathfinding. On the other hand, AI is already aware of movable objects (creates, barrels, vehicles) and it can be only better now, so perhaps it could be done.

I would also like to see customizable skull, giving you option to change variables for every enemy type, every weapon, friendly AI, shield power/recharge time, etc.
 
godhandiscen

godhandiscen

There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
It has been a while since I played Halo 3 and I got rammed in Tundra. Also, WTF is Cubed? Bungie is really going crazy with certain maps. Still, even when losing Halo is such an awesome experience. Coming from a PC elitist like me, there is no FPS in earth better than Halo 3. I wish they would hurry up with the next console so that I can finally play this game at a decent resolution.
 
A

alisdair

Member
I've read something like "it's not my job to justify my decisions to you" from Shishka, which seems an odd tone of voice for a company with an amazing record of community engagement.

Can anyone think of a reason why Shishka (or someone else) doesn't give any rationale behind the matchmaking changes? Have they tried before and it went badly?

For example, I would love to read a couple of sentences on why there's no CTF Fast or Classic in matchmaking outside of MLG, even if there was to be no discussion entered into. I really have no idea why it's not there right now.

Team Control was a good weekend playlist, although Halo isn't as much fun now that no-one I know plays any more. I don't really know why that is. Maybe I need more friends.
 
K

kylej

Banned
Striker said:
"Save TO"

Sooo, non-MLG 4v4 CTF am dead? :|
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Phew the OP of that thread should feel lucky that he wasn't banned for breaking an invisible rule Shishka had in his head.

Dude dropped out of college to be a Bungie.net forum moderator. Let him rule his little kingdom in peace.
 
D

Deleted member 21120

Unconfirmed Member
BiasedGamer said:
I'm aware that Halo's AI is heavily scripted, but I didn't mean creating new encounters (at least not in ODST), but rather editing existing ones.
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As someone who spends the majority of his time in campagin, let me respond to this.

Are you sure of what "scripting" means? Scripting is when an AI is assigned a script, and will always do the same thing every time without deviating. I can think of maybe a half dozen instances in Halo 3 where the AI is scripted - on Crow's Nest when the Grunts blow up the first Warthog you see, on Tsavo when you come around the corner to the first shield door on the tunnel and there's a Brute Chopper driving towards a Warthog... Those are examples of scripted AI. The rest of the time, Halo's AI isn't scripted, it's just so advanced that it seems scripted. Halo's AI has a lot more "choices" available to it than the AI does in other games. All objects in Halo put out a little bubble, like an "area of effect," and any enemy within that AOE can interact with that object, which is why you'll see enemies diving behind blocks or vehicles or standing behind them and poking their head out to get a shot. In addition to that, they also have lots of "if, thens" that aren't scripts, but just suggestions. For example, Brute Chieftains sometimes have "If the player kills 50% of the enemies, then run to this location." That is not script - otherwise the Chieftain would do it every time (which he doesn't), or when he does do it, then he'll keep running no matter what - but if you are close enough to fight him, then he'll stop and fight you (again, that wouldn't happen on a script).

So Halo's AI isn't "heavily scripted," it's just "heavily inundated with choices."
 
E

EazyB

Banned
Cocopjojo said:
As someone who spends the majority of his time in campagin, let me respond to this.

Are you sure of what "scripting" means? Scripting is when an AI is assigned a script, and will always do the same thing every time without deviating. I can think of maybe a half dozen instances in Halo 3 where the AI is scripted - on Crow's Nest when the Grunts blow up the first Warthog you see, on Tsavo when you come around the corner to the first shield door on the tunnel and there's a Brute Chopper driving towards a Warthog... Those are examples of scripted AI. The rest of the time, Halo's AI isn't scripted, it's just so advanced that it seems scripted. Halo's AI has a lot more "choices" available to it than the AI does in other games. All objects in Halo put out a little bubble, like an "area of effect," and any enemy within that AOE can interact with that object, which is why you'll see enemies diving behind blocks or vehicles or standing behind them and poking their head out to get a shot. In addition to that, they also have lots of "if, thens" that aren't scripts, but just suggestions. For example, Brute Chieftains sometimes have "If the player kills 50% of the enemies, then run to this location." That is not script - otherwise the Chieftain would do it every time (which he doesn't), or when he does do it, then he'll keep running no matter what - but if you are close enough to fight him, then he'll stop and fight you (again, that wouldn't happen on a script).

So Halo's AI isn't "heavily scripted," it's just "heavily inundated with choices."
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If what you say is true, then they'd easily be able to implement a forge-like system where users could plunk down random AI opponents, hit play, and they'd do there thing. I'm pretty sure that's not the case though. Halo isn't scripted in the same way CoD or KZ is scripted, but like I said in my previous post, each AI in each encounter is uniquely programed to behave in a certain way. Their AI is good enough so that it can adapt to certain player inputs once most of the enemies are wiped out and the remain seem to just run around kind of, but they definitely have layers above that. I'd suggest looking at those publications about Bungie's AI.

Here's a slide, yeah it's from Halo CE, but it's the single best slide for describing what their goals are and what they do.
ai2.jpg



Here's a line from Halo 3's Building a Better Battle presentation: "AI acts smart within the confines of the plan provided by the designer"

Here's a pretty good slide:
ai.jpg



But yeah, if you look at any of those publications you will see that the AI for each encounter is heavily scripted; not just at the half dozen times you've noticed it. The fact that you don't realize it is a testament to how well their system works. But it also means simply tossing in AI characters around like you would blocks in forge would not work at all.
 
B

Blueblur1

Member
Domino Theory said:
True, but wouldn't it be cool if Social Skirmish would mostly be CTF with some Assault thrown in and a BR (be in a primary or secondary weapon) to accompany you along such an epic playlist? Would you like that, instead?
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That would be great actually.

Thermite said:
Nonetheless, Team Objective had maybe 1,500-2,000 people at it's peak amount, whereas both Team Snipers and MLG do well over that with easily 7,500+ people playing all the time.
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That's true. I wasn't considering the population numbers. I was just communicating that a ranked objective playlist has always had a proper place in matchmaking and there's no reason it should not continue to (aside from population issues, of course).

Striker said:
No reason to axe MLG or Team Snipers. They're competitive playlists that aren't littered with guests and constantly poor players making certain experiences not very good (Social). There needs to be more, varied RANKED playlists, anyway, and fewer, varied Social playlists (Social FFA, Social Big Team, Social DLC, Social Training).

What could or should've been done is, for example...

Combine Social Slayer and Social Skirmish. Make it 4-5 players per team and mix Slayer, Slayer BRs, Multi-CTF, 1-CTF, Mult-Bomb, Neutral Bomb, 1-Bomb, Territories, KotH, and Oddball with, of course, the most weight to CTF and Slayer. Something like:

Social Training
Team Slayer 25%
Team Slayer BRs 14%
Multi-CTF 18%
1-CTF 13%
Multi-Bomb 7%
Neutral Bomb 10%
1-Bomb 4%
Territories 3%
KotH 3%
Oddball 3%

Of course, everything can be redeemed by creating a better, revised, adjusted playlist of Skirmishes fill mostly with CTF, and doses of Bomb, KotH, Oddball, and a small dab of Territories. There have been very little or no changes to Team Objective since launch. Snowbound and The Pit got minor changes, but that was primarily for all variants. No helping changes to Last Resort, The Pit, Blackout, etc. How can one expect increases in population if no helping hands are being influenced? No ranked 4v4 playlist of CTF, et. all is simply disconcerting. Halo online isn't Halo online without capture the flag and other objectives. But if the thought is "Hey, better off going Social" is the way to go, then something is very wrong.
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I never said that those hoppers should be removed. I was merely stating that they are a different take on existing hoppers. And I feel the originals are always core to the entire multiplayer experience when the variants are not [for everyone]. You're right in regards to the lack of attention Team Objective received. Its a little disheartening because none of us gave it much attention either until now. Yes, myself included. :(

backflip10019 said:
This is an awful idea. I don't really understand why you think these deserve to be axed over let's say Squad Battle which (I've heard) is near impossible to find games in after you hit 30 or so. As Thermite said, MLG and Snipers are "successful" playlists whereas TO and to an extent Squad Battle are not. I feel like at this point, Bungie is only keeping Squad in because of the lack of ranked playlists. Hopefully, with the absence of TO, Squad's numbers will be boosted a bit.
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*Sigh* You must have read my post hastily. I never said they deserved to be removed; read my responses to the others and you will understand. Also, I never once mentioned Squad Battle.

EazyB said:
Fighting games do require a ridiculous amount of time investment but some of it just boils down to having to memorize a move list. Sure players that spend more time gazing over the move list will have an advantage, but it's tough for me to sign that off as skill.

Halo enjoys a minimal input system but still requires near limitless amount of skill. Besides simply aiming well, there are advanced jumping techniques and grenade placements. Coupled with the countless strategic elements and you have enough there that skilled people will always differentiate themselves from less skilled players. Yeah they won't obliterate a not quite equally skilled opponent every single time but that's the nature of shooters nor should it be.

I'm not beyond the idea of having a sort of "active reload", ala Gears, system in Halo but even that I'm hesitant would result in any more fun.
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Instead of using the laughing smiley in an obnoxious way like you often do, I will respond. The statement I have used bold tags on above is ridiculous. You clearly do not have an understanding of fighting games if you feel that its all about memorizing a move list and then using said moves. And comparing one type of video game to another is just silly. First person shooters are no better than fighting games and vice versa. You sound like a fanboy at best. Why even make such comments when they are of no use to the current conversation?

You make some good points on occasion and this is not one of them.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Am I the only one that prefers one-flag to one bomb assault? One-bomb is in BTB, but zero one-flag games. The nature of BTB means you basically have one shot at getting the bomb near the base, and if you get stopped, it's time to wait for the reset and try again. It gets tedious at times. Whereas with flag there can be a steady, slow edging of the flag across the map, a constant and evolving struggle. The constant rush to get that next flag touch.

One bomb is 8.8% of the BTB playlist, and it can appear on every map, but there's not one single map with one-flag variants at all. I'd love to see it in there. A few months back I got one-flag on Last Resort, and it led to a truly epic game, just edging the flag along a couple feet at a time all the way to the beach. Incredibly fun, and a very different dynamic than the waves of try and fail that is one sided assault.
 
D

Deleted member 21120

Unconfirmed Member
EazyB said:
But yeah, if you look at any of those publications you will see that the AI for each encounter is heavily scripted; not just at the half dozen times you've noticed it. The fact that you don't realize it is a testament to how well their system works. But it also means simply tossing in AI characters around like you would blocks in forge would not work at all.
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I wasn't trying to argue that it would work, nor was I arguing that the AI uses "no scripts in any sense of the word." I was just saying that the AI doesn't use scripts in the traditional sense, like in the examples I named. And that's why I defined the word before I gave the examples - scripts being those actions which are scripted, and therefore unchangeable - the AI cannot go "off-script."

I've read the publications you quoted and that's how I knew to give the example of the Brute Chieftain running away when certain requirements were met. But I guess I was wrong in the sense that that wasn't a "script," since they do call it that.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
GhaleonEB said:
Am I the only one that prefers one-flag to one bomb assault? One-bomb is in BTB, but zero one-flag games. The nature of BTB means you basically have one shot at getting the bomb near the base, and if you get stopped, it's time to wait for the reset and try again. It gets tedious at times. Whereas with flag there can be a steady, slow edging of the flag across the map, a constant and evolving struggle. The constant rush to get that next flag touch.

One bomb is 8.8% of the BTB playlist, and it can appear on every map, but there's not one single map with one-flag variants at all. I'd love to see it in there. A few months back I got one-flag on Last Resort, and it led to a truly epic game, just edging the flag along a couple feet at a time all the way to the beach. Incredibly fun, and a very different dynamic than the waves of try and fail that is one sided assault.
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I like them both more than multi.
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
Dax01 said:
I like them both more than multi.
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I like any game type that encourages both teams to spread the field. Neutral Assault is actually my favorite game type (that's in matchmaking) because of how the focus of the game is constantly moving around the map. It's very dynamic. I like multi-flag because of that same reason, the simultaneous balancing of attack and defend. I do like the one sided gametypes, just mixed in, as they are now. But I'd like to see one-flag as an option.

Speaking which, two-bomb assault is something I haven't played in ages. I don't think it's ever been in BTB. Would like to see that as well, because despite the similarity to CTF it plays a bit different and would bring some nice variety to the playlist.
 
R

Roquentin

Member
Cocopjojo said:
I wasn't trying to argue that it would work, nor was I arguing that the AI uses "no scripts in any sense of the word." I was just saying that the AI doesn't use scripts in the traditional sense, like in the examples I named. And that's why I defined the word before I gave the examples - scripts being those actions which are scripted, and therefore unchangeable - the AI cannot go "off-script."
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Grunts blowing up the Warthog is more like a scripted event. Besides, for the most part there's no real AI in games right now. Unless your game is pretty simple, you have to tell AI how to navigate through environments, where to take cover, how to react to different events (global and specific to current location). It's just that Bungie created a lot of different scenarios for AI actors, not to mention that enemy and friendly AI chat makes them look twice as smart as they really are.
 
B

BladedExpert

Member
GhaleonEB said:
I like any game type that encourages both teams to spread the field. Neutral Assault is actually my favorite game type (that's in matchmaking) because of how the focus of the game is constantly moving around the map. It's very dynamic. I like multi-flag because of that same reason, the simultaneous balancing of attack and defend. I do like the one sided gametypes, just mixed in, as they are now. But I'd like to see one-flag as an option.

Speaking which, two-bomb assault is something I haven't played in ages. I don't think it's ever been in BTB. Would like to see that as well, because despite the similarity to CTF it plays a bit different and would bring some nice variety to the playlist.
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Multi Flag>One Flag>Neutral Assault>One Bomb
 
S

Striker

Member
I preferred Halo 2's style of Assault/Bomb, and i can't be alone on that!

Multi-bomb on large maps like Coagulation, Waterworks, and Containment was quite fun. One Bomb was a pain in the ass on Relic, though.
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
EazyB said:
Fighting games do require a ridiculous amount of time investment but some of it just boils down to having to memorize a move list. Sure players that spend more time gazing over the move list will have an advantage, but it's tough for me to sign that off as skill.
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I think Total already pointed out that you are wrong on this point. Consider fighting games like chess, once you memorise the moveset, you've only really started to learn to play properly. I doubt you would consider chess unskillful. Take a deeper look into fighting games, even the main stream fighting games are very deep technical games.

And button combos' in FPS's would suck so much ass. Not the right genre for them, it would take an exceptionally skillful and technical developer to create, implement and perfect such a system, and most players would simply avoid it.
 
B

backflip10019

Member
Ugh, this past weekend's DXP Team Control reminded me of how much I miss Three Plots from H2. I wonder why Bungie didn't just include it and give it a trial run. Hell, they included Lurkers (which is alright on a couple of maps but awful on others like Orbital). I really wish that Bungie experimented more with gametypes than they do now. Action Sack is a start, but I wish that they took a more serious approach to it.
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
Dani said:
And button combos' in FPS's would suck so much ass. Not the right genre for them, it would take an exceptionally skillful and technical developer to create, implement and perfect such a system, and most players would simply avoid it.
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I dunno I mean Bungie sort of did this completely by ACCIDENT in H2, and that was generally agreed to be the best online console FPS before H3 and CoD4. Whether you liked the glitches or not people used them to (alot) (especially the easier ones BXR and YY) all I'm saying is its pretty cool to have something that makes your FPS different from Generic Shooter #14.

Sure it may have broken the balance of a regular Slayer SMG start, but to be completely fucking honest I'm so sick of how everyone doesn't see that all Halo gametypes should be SMG/BR, or AR/BR starts anyways. CLOSE AND SHORT RANGE WEAPON STARTS. EVERY OTHER GAME DOES IT (CoD = Rifle + Pistol, GoW = Shotgun + Pistol + Rifle).
 
B

backflip10019

Member
Wow, playing MLG with people without microphones is fucking terrible. Especially when they don't listen to your callouts, don't do jack shit and then watch you die. So much fun.
 
S

Striker

Member
backflip10019 said:
Wow, playing MLG with people without microphones is fucking terrible. Especially when they don't listen to your callouts, don't do jack shit and then watch you die. So much fun.
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Once I get my 360 back, who knows when that is, but I'll play MLG if you follow in a party. I wouldn't dare go into a playlist like that by myself. I can't trust randoms in Social, let alone ranked.

It's all we will have for 4v4 CTF, at least for partial games, so it's the best option. :\
 
Lazslo

Lazslo

Member
For some reason I googled "bungie.net" and the main site came up first. Under the listings it says "flood skateboard" - Does this happen to anyone else? It just ends up being the service record but weird nonetheless.
 
O

Oozer3993

Member
Ssparks said:
For some reason I googled "bungie.net" and the main site came up first. Under the listings it says "flood skateboard" - Does this happen to anyone else? It just ends up being the service record but weird nonetheless.
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Happens for me. Neat easter egg.
 
P

Proc

Member
I felt pretty bad ass playing halo 3 ranked team slayer earlier today.

I got 2 x killing spree and lead my team in points in foundry. I'm gravitating to Halo 3 more these days, its a hell of a game. I'm only now seeing how much work has been put into bungie.net and all I can say is holy shit.
 
E

EazyB

Banned
Blueblur1 said:
Instead of using the laughing smiley in an obnoxious way like you often do, I will respond. The statement I have used bold tags on above is ridiculous. You clearly do not have an understanding of fighting games if you feel that its all about memorizing a move list and then using said moves. And comparing one type of video game to another is just silly. First person shooters are no better than fighting games and vice versa. You sound like a fanboy at best. Why even make such comments when they are of no use to the current conversation?

You make some good points on occasion and this is not one of them.
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Wow, defensive much? The reason I said "some of it" is all about memorizing a move list is because that specific task of memorizing specific inputs is, IMO, less skill based and more monotonous memorization. As you know, after you've spent this time memorizing the movelist so that you can do each move as soon as it pops into your head, you're now equipped with a huge variety of moves. The skill involved is all about knowing what situations to pull each move off, how to input them quickly, the split second recognition/reaction to the other player's actions, and how to draw opponents into favorably positions. It's true that I don't play fighters at anything near an advanced level so there are probably more techniques I don't even know about but that's not the point. I realize the immense depth in fighters and skill it requires to become really good at them. It's just that the unavoidable pitfall of having to sit down an pour over a movelist is something I'd have a hard time classifying as skill.

And just in case your rage missed the rest of my post, I'll clarify how it relates to Juice's point about having "built in" button glitches. Halo has a relatively simplistic input system which allows anyone to jump in and have fun immediately and succeed just relying on smart strategy. Adding additional barriers such as button inputs may allow people that've invested the time into memorizing those to destroy those that haven't, but it's just an unnecessary hurdle; one that fighters have to face but shooters don't.

Dani said:
I think Total already pointed out that you are wrong on this point. Consider fighting games like chess, once you memorise the moveset, you've only really started to learn to play properly. I doubt you would consider chess unskillful. Take a deeper look into fighting games, even the main stream fighting games are very deep technical games.
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Read above

Dani said:
And button combos' in FPS's would suck so much ass. Not the right genre for them...
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Agreed
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
EazyB said:
Wow, defensive much? The reason I said "some of it" is all about memorizing a move list is because that specific task of memorizing specific inputs is, IMO, less skill based and more monotonous memorization. As you know, after you've spent this time memorizing the movelist so that you can do each move as soon as it pops into your head, you're now equipped with a huge variety of moves. The skill involved is all about knowing what situations to pull each move off, how to input them quickly, the split second recognition/reaction to the other player's actions, and how to draw opponents into favorably positions. It's true that I don't play fighters at anything near an advanced level so there are probably more techniques I don't even know about but that's not the point. I realize the immense depth in fighters and skill it requires to become really good at them. It's just that the unavoidable pitfall of having to sit down an pour over a movelist is something I'd have a hard time classifying as skill.

And just in case your rage missed the rest of my post, I'll clarify how it relates to Juice's point about having "built in" button glitches. Halo has a relatively simplistic input system which allows anyone to jump in and have fun immediately and succeed just relying on smart strategy. Adding additional barriers such as button inputs may allow people that've invested the time into memorizing those to destroy those that haven't, but it's just an unnecessary hurdle; one that fighters have to face but shooters don't.


Read above


Agreed
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Agreed the learning and memorization of the moves in a fighter is more about how knowledgeable you are at a game. A skilled fighter for fighting games might be able to see how the fighting system works with a random new fighter game and with just the basic commands still be able to beat a weaker skilled player who knows every move in the game. Which is something I love.

The skill involved is all about timing, leading the opponent into a weakness, or feigning a weakness and exploiting him after he makes his (bad) move. Its a very rock-paper-scissor game play, at least the fighters I've played.

But even so memorizing the maps in the Halo games and memorizing where the weapons are is a huge advantage over people who've never played. I hate when I am playing a custom game and get rocketed, not even always just because I died but because it seems cheap since I didn't even know there was fucking rockets on the map. Is that skill? Not really, but I'm still waiting in respawn screen.

I wouldn't want hardly any variety in the combos for the weapons, basically just a quick reload (even if its an active reload type deal), a close range kill combo (that would generally beat a normal beatdown) and a different shot that would be decently difficult to pull off but when used when down a shot can pull off something quite clutch.

If you think about it aren't we already using some combos in a sense?

Hold R, release, Y, R is just a plasma combo. BXR or BB is double beatdown in a sense too. R followed by beatdown with a mauler. Snipe followed by beatdown. I even plasma pistol beatdown a dude so fast I didn't even see a beatdown but I got the kill for it on Orbital a few days ago.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Mr Vociferous said:
Post of the day. Now if someone could just convince Bungie that people should be able to chuck equipment from the driver's seat of a Mongoose.
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They should make double dash lol...wait...can you throw equipment while riding brokeback?
 
E

EazyB

Banned
xxjuicesxx said:
Agreed the learning and memorization of the moves in a fighter is more about how knowledgeable you are at a game. A skilled fighter for fighting games might be able to see how the fighting system works with a random new fighter game and with just the basic commands still be able to beat a weaker skilled player who knows every move in the game. Which is something I love.

The skill involved is all about timing, leading the opponent into a weakness, or feigning a weakness and exploiting him after he makes his (bad) move. Its a very rock-paper-scissor game play, at least the fighters I've played.

But even so memorizing the maps in the Halo games and memorizing where the weapons are is a huge advantage over people who've never played. I hate when I am playing a custom game and get rocketed, not even always just because I died but because it seems cheap since I didn't even know there was fucking rockets on the map. Is that skill? Not really, but I'm still waiting in respawn screen.
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Yeah, in no way was I trying to say that Halo, or any other shooter, didn't require some degree of memorization. But just like fighting games' reliance on move lists, Halo's gotta have its weapon placement. Same goes for memorizing that map beyond the pickups.

xxjuicesxx said:
I wouldn't want hardly any variety in the combos for the weapons, basically just a quick reload (even if its an active reload type deal), a close range kill combo (that would generally beat a normal beatdown) and a different shot that would be decently difficult to pull off but when used when down a shot can pull off something quite clutch.

If you think about it aren't we already using some combos in a sense?

Hold R, release, Y, R is just a plasma combo. BXR or BB is double beatdown in a sense too. R followed by beatdown with a mauler. Snipe followed by beatdown. I even plasma pistol beatdown a dude so fast I didn't even see a beatdown but I got the kill for it on Orbital a few days ago.
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There's definitely no distinct line on what's a button combo and what's not. But with each extra input layer you add to the game, it becomes a little less accessible. While many players with 2000+ games would love something extra to try to learn like a tough button combo, I feel Halo already has enough of layers to it, that it doesn't need ones that depend on advanced input. Maybe I'm a slow learner but even after 5000+ games I still learn new things and techniques that I'd never known before. I also know there a ton of room for improvement as there are people that could absolutely destroy me.

I don't follow the pro gaming scene but I think I'd be safe in saying that there is even a wide spectrum of skill amongst the players at that level. Halo 3 is deep enough so that even the best can improve and if they don't; they are soon bested.

Like I said earlier, I wouldn't be against an active reload system in Halo but the more you go beyond that; the more I feel you risk alienating players and getting away from what's made Halo successful. Sure if they could program it into their next game as an option that MLG or whomever could decide to take advantage of, then go for it; the more options the merrier. I'd love to see Halo become as customizable as it can be. Let players adjust the damage, fire rate, accuracy, all that stuff of each individual gun and save it as a gametype. But now I think I'm getting beyond the subject at hand so I'll stop.
 
W

Willeth

Member
I think if you allow too much freedom in that respect you can frustrate your users. Look at Oddball in Doubles - how many people were surprised that the ball wasn't a one-hit kill after they've been taught that it is in FFA? Or who initially play Mosh Pit just like any other KotH gametype? People know how to use each weapon, and if you mess with that too much you can really confuse people.

The only time it tends to work is when the rules change drastically, like Grifball or Rocket Race. I fully expect a lot of people to get very confused when playing Action Sack this weekend.
 
E

EazyB

Banned
Willeth said:
I think if you allow too much freedom in that respect you can frustrate your users. Look at Oddball in Doubles - how many people were surprised that the ball wasn't a one-hit kill after they've been taught that it is in FFA? Or who initially play Mosh Pit just like any other KotH gametype? People know how to use each weapon, and if you mess with that too much you can really confuse people.

The only time it tends to work is when the rules change drastically, like Grifball or Rocket Race. I fully expect a lot of people to get very confused when playing Action Sack this weekend.
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Yeah, those types of changes would be taken advantage of mostly in customs. Bungie is scared that the MM population would be too confused with multiple flag gametypes so they never use CTF classic or even change the flag reset times based on map size. They also avoid changing weapon spawns and other scenery/cover for different gametypes. So yeah, they'd never scramble the MM experience up.

But for a group like MLG, they could make the BR more accurate and change whatever else so it plays the way they want it to play. It could also really expand the potential of goofy gametypes like Grifball and stuff.
 
R

Raide

Member
Tashi0106 said:
They should make double dash lol...wait...can you throw equipment while riding brokeback?
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You should be able to throw grenades with very low power. or sticky grenades that act like blue shells.

Bungie, get on it!
 
W

Willeth

Member
I've been trying to figure out a way to count laps in a race gametype for a while, and I think that might be the solution. A single hill that doesn't need to be contested, with a point limit. There would probably need to be something to prevent people from just sitting in the hill, but a man cannon embedded in the floor would work just fine, I think.
 
I

Insaniac

Member
Tashi0106 said:
They should make double dash lol...wait...can you throw equipment while riding brokeback?
Click to expand...

Racing variants with Plasma Pistols, and plasma grenades are good times. You should be able to throw equipment brokeback though, it'd be awesome.
 
B

backflip10019

Member
Wow, Shishka, your complete incompetence when it comes to turning off party splitting is fucking infuriating. Take, for example, this game that I just played:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=1152923878&player=backflip10019

See how GRRR Wookus and his buddy were split up in the game? His partner proceeded to team kill us once we started beating his partner's team. I don't understand how party splitting hasn't been fixed by now.

Some of you may say, "Oh, this is just backflip overreacting again. It's just one game." No, it's not. This happens all the time in social matches and Shishka has done nothing to fix it.

"But backflip, Shishka turned off party splitting in Grifball that one weekend to test it out." Yeah, he did. And it worked incredibly well. Why this feature hasn't been included yet is beyond me. It's funny how Halo 3 is branded as the game whose developers listen to the community and yet this issue hasn't even been addressed in over a year and a half of the game being out.
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
backflip10019 said:
Wow, Shishka, your complete incompetence when it comes to turning off party splitting is fucking infuriating. Take, for example, this game that I just played:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=1152923878&player=backflip10019

See how GRRR Wookus and his buddy were split up in the game? His partner proceeded to team kill us once we started beating his partner's team. I don't understand how party splitting hasn't been fixed by now.

Some of you may say, "Oh, this is just backflip overreacting again. It's just one game." No, it's not. This happens all the time in social matches and Shishka has done nothing to fix it.

"But backflip, Shishka turned off party splitting in Grifball that one weekend to test it out." Yeah, he did. And it worked incredibly well. Why this feature hasn't been included yet is beyond me. It's funny how Halo 3 is branded as the game whose developers listen to the community and yet this issue hasn't even been addressed in over a year and a half of the game being out.
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I see the problem. You're playing Halo 3. :D

but seriously... according to Shishka's gamertag he hasn't played a game of H3 for 19 days. I really hope he has an alt somewhere out there.
 
Voltron64

Voltron64

Member
Please turn off party splitting. I'd rather wait for a match a minute or two longer then have to sit through an unbearably frustrating 10 minute match of my teammate driving his buddy from the other team around on the warthog turret gunning us down. How about when your teammate takes the other team rockets and a sniper. Real fun!
 
D

Domino Theory

Crystal Dynamics
backflip10019 said:
Wow, Shishka, your complete incompetence when it comes to turning off party splitting is fucking infuriating. Take, for example, this game that I just played:

http://www.bungie.net/Stats/GameStatsHalo3.aspx?gameid=1152923878&player=backflip10019

See how GRRR Wookus and his buddy were split up in the game? His partner proceeded to team kill us once we started beating his partner's team. I don't understand how party splitting hasn't been fixed by now.

Some of you may say, "Oh, this is just backflip overreacting again. It's just one game." No, it's not. This happens all the time in social matches and Shishka has done nothing to fix it.

"But backflip, Shishka turned off party splitting in Grifball that one weekend to test it out." Yeah, he did. And it worked incredibly well. Why this feature hasn't been included yet is beyond me. It's funny how Halo 3 is branded as the game whose developers listen to the community and yet this issue hasn't even been addressed in over a year and a half of the game being out.
Click to expand...

You know backflip, normally I wouldn't agree with juices, but he's right. Your constant bitching isn't going to help at all (not to diss you or anything, because I hate the party splitting just as much as you do). But if you're frustrated, just bailout as soon as you can.

I'll come into Halo 3 every so often and play a few games. If I get even remotely frustrated, I just stop playing for a few days or maybe even a couple weeks. I don't want to push through the frustration and consistently play and just get even more upset (like what it's been doing to you every day and now).

Might I suggest Sacred 2, Halo 2 or Gears 2 now that Epic has permanently fixed the smoke grenades? Just hop on Halo 3 every saturday for customs where you KNOW for a fact you'll get a BR, you'll play the maps you want to play, the gametypes you want to play (followed by the rules that are suited depending on the map if CTF is played) and the people you want to play with, with no splits, no-micers or anything that plagues MM negatively.
 
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