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Forza 3 vs Gran Turismo 5 Comparison Thread of John, Chapter 11, Verse 35

Windom Earle

Windom Earle

Member
itt we compare a new demo to a two year old demo...

Anyway,

Will GT5 have better graphics than Forza 3? YES, this is very obvious.

Will GT5 be more polished than Forza 3? Again, a clear YES. I seriously think Turn 10 should take some more time to pump out the sequels. Racing sims are extremely work intensive, but the polish pays off in the end.

Will GT5 be more fun than Forza? WHO FUCKING KNOWS?? I loved GT4, but I can see myself getting tired of the concept if they do not improve on the weaknesses of the series.

edit: Greenwalt or whatever his name is is a gigantic douche and Forza needs F1 cars! (Has always been the icing on the GT cake for me)
 
I

iratA

Member
Tom Penny said:
People think GT5 graphics will be able to compete with this? That's crazy talk...

Untitled-3.jpg
Click to expand...

Cue: Longwinded speech

So I just got done getting my hands dirty with the Forza 3 Demo. Now having never played a Forza game before in my life I have the following to say. Honestly it looks just like this screen above and my biggest problem is the game just comes off feeling way to arcadey/gamey if you know what I mean. Just take a look at the picture above and tell me that those colours (both cars and track) don't give you an arcade racer vibe. The colours are almost to vibrant/saturated and in general lack shades of colour you would expect to find in real cars. GT, Shift and to a lesser extent Burnout Paradise come much closer to RL in this regard. If your doubting what I'm saying go and re-have a look at some of the paintwork in burnout, its still very impressive, if a little glossy.

The minute you begin to play Forza, you realise that the game is geared far more towards accessability instead of any sort of realism. I found all the cars had massive amounts of grip and then would let there tails loose very suddenly. But the cars also seem to have samey suspension set ups. Take the Mini for a drive and tell me how much different the car dips into a corner compared to the Audi or the Porsche. I get the feeling Turn 10 made certain sacrifices in the physics department to achieve that same level of accessability regardless of which car a player chooses. That, in and of its self is fine, but it just detracts from the realism coming from GT5p/GT4 where the cars really feel so different from one another. Overall the cars just feel a little more on rails in Forza I suppose.

Having said all that, I found I was adjusting to what was going on right in front of me and the game can be a lot of fun once your a custom. The game just feels far less sim to me than what I was expecting.
 
J

Jive Turkey

Unconfirmed Member
You know bish is awesome. Not only for that great OP but for creating this thread. It's a "who's who" of GAF goofballs.

Has anybody ignored his warning yet?
 
T

theignoramus

Member
Tom Penny said:
People think GT5 graphics will be able to compete with this? That's crazy talk...

Untitled-3.jpg
Click to expand...

We released a generous helping of Forza Motorsport 3 screenshots and videos this week. If you haven't seen them yet, go check 'em out in our Media Gallery. There are some things you should know about these screenshots. First of all, at Turn 10, we don't bullshot -- which means everything you see here is real-time taken from in-game gameplay. The E3 batch was taken back in early May, and given how the development process works, the game is improving just about daily, so the bottomline is that these screenshots are from a work-in-progress. Naturally, the game will actually look better by the time it comes out later this fall. The reason why you might have mistaken these screenshots as faked, touched-up, or embellished art is because Forza 3 is an exceedingly gorgeous game.

There's really no bigger graphics junkie than myself at Turn 10 and I'm constantly surprised by just how insanely next generation the game looks from a visual standpoint. Not only have the cars themselves gotten much more detailed, our 100+ tracks in the game provide some truly inspired locales to fuel your car passion. Much of the leap in graphical fidelity with Forza 3 was made possible by our game engine developers, whom, in the early days (think summer of 2007) set out to rebuild a new renderer and content pipeline for Forza 3. So just like before, Forza 3 runs at a glassy smooth 60 frames-per-second, with our physics calculating underneath the hood at a much higher framerate. New shaders and tech puts the finishing touches on an already handsome Forza Motorsport 2. Likewise, with the gameplay video, everything was captured in-game with no faked CG whatsoever. At Turn 10, we don't do bullshots.
 
F

Firewire

Banned
theignoramus said:
We released a generous helping of Forza Motorsport 3 screenshots and videos this week. If you haven't seen them yet, go check 'em out in our Media Gallery. There are some things you should know about these screenshots. First of all, at Turn 10, we don't bullshot -- which means everything you see here is real-time taken from in-game gameplay. The E3 batch was taken back in early May, and given how the development process works, the game is improving just about daily, so the bottomline is that these screenshots are from a work-in-progress. Naturally, the game will actually look better by the time it comes out later this fall. The reason why you might have mistaken these screenshots as faked, touched-up, or embellished art is because Forza 3 is an exceedingly gorgeous game.

There's really no bigger graphics junkie than myself at Turn 10 and I'm constantly surprised by just how insanely next generation the game looks from a visual standpoint. Not only have the cars themselves gotten much more detailed, our 100+ tracks in the game provide some truly inspired locales to fuel your car passion. Much of the leap in graphical fidelity with Forza 3 was made possible by our game engine developers, whom, in the early days (think summer of 2007) set out to rebuild a new renderer and content pipeline for Forza 3. So just like before, Forza 3 runs at a glassy smooth 60 frames-per-second, with our physics calculating underneath the hood at a much higher framerate. New shaders and tech puts the finishing touches on an already handsome Forza Motorsport 2. Likewise, with the gameplay video, everything was captured in-game with no faked CG whatsoever. At Turn 10, we don't do bullshots.
Click to expand...

:lol
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
I think even Che would concede that GT5's car models are better. Regardless of PR bullshittery.

Also, in terms of bullshots, people have very different understandings of that term, especially on GAF. A developer isn't going to know exactly what image quality they're going to get on the final product till pretty late on in terms of AA etc. I think using in-game assets just rendered better than it will be is still a bullshot, but a lot of people wouldn't.

EDIT: Forgot to mention, I played the demo yesterday, it's awesome. I didn't see any crazy floating cars either.
 
C

Corky

Nine out of ten orphans can't tell the difference.
ugh I really hope this thread was somekind of elaborate scheme, an ingenious trap on bish's part where he will retroactively ban everybody who trolled in this topic

*please lord let it happen*
 
I

iratA

Member
Zabka said:
Did you drive with assists on or off?
Click to expand...

I played around with all of them to be honest. I think my final preference was leaving ABS, Traction control and Auto Shifting (which I normally use in GT anyway) on. Everything else was turned off.
 
Fredrik

Fredrik

Member
iratA said:
The minute you begin to play Forza, you realise that the game is geared far more towards accessability instead of any sort of realism. I found all the cars had massive amounts of grip and then would let there tails loose very suddenly. But the cars also seem to have samey suspension set ups. Take the Mini for a drive and tell me how much different the car dips into a corner compared to the Audi or the Porsche. I get the feeling Turn 10 made certain sacrifices in the physics department to achieve that same level of accessability regardless of which car a player chooses. That, in and of its self is fine, but it just detracts from the realism coming from GT5p/GT4 where the cars really feel so different from one another. Overall the cars just feel a little more on rails in Forza I suppose.
Click to expand...
Gran Turismo fan here. I still haven't played the Forza 3 demo, I don't pay for online gaming and Silver members have to wait a bit more for the demo for some reason. BUT, I have played the demo of Forza 2 and judging by that you are soooo way off with the conclusion that Forza is more arcadey than GT. It's the other way around. In a biiig way. But for me that's actually a good thing (for GT), I tried the demo of Forza 2 and realised that it wasn't for me, I could barely get myself around the track... :/
 
F

Firewire

Banned
Corky said:
ugh I really hope this thread was somekind of elaborate scheme, an ingenious trap on bish's part where he will retroactively ban everybody who trolled in this topic

*please lord let it happen*
Click to expand...

Has anyone other than the guy with the MS email address been banned in this thread? (was that guy even in this thread or was that the GT thread?) I think bishopl is just letting everyone make complete fools of themselves.
 
N

[Nintex]

Member
theignoramus said:
We released a generous helping of Forza Motorsport 3 screenshots and videos this week. If you haven't seen them yet, go check 'em out in our Media Gallery. There are some things you should know about these screenshots. First of all, at Turn 10, we don't bullshot -- which means everything you see here is real-time taken from in-game gameplay. The E3 batch was taken back in early May, and given how the development process works, the game is improving just about daily, so the bottomline is that these screenshots are from a work-in-progress. Naturally, the game will actually look better by the time it comes out later this fall. The reason why you might have mistaken these screenshots as faked, touched-up, or embellished art is because Forza 3 is an exceedingly gorgeous game.

There's really no bigger graphics junkie than myself at Turn 10 and I'm constantly surprised by just how insanely next generation the game looks from a visual standpoint. Not only have the cars themselves gotten much more detailed, our 100+ tracks in the game provide some truly inspired locales to fuel your car passion. Much of the leap in graphical fidelity with Forza 3 was made possible by our game engine developers, whom, in the early days (think summer of 2007) set out to rebuild a new renderer and content pipeline for Forza 3. So just like before, Forza 3 runs at a glassy smooth 60 frames-per-second, with our physics calculating underneath the hood at a much higher framerate. New shaders and tech puts the finishing touches on an already handsome Forza Motorsport 2. Likewise, with the gameplay video, everything was captured in-game with no faked CG whatsoever. At Turn 10, we don't do bullshots.
Click to expand...
Except for some AA and the difference in resolution between those shots and the real deal, Forza 3 looks just like the screenshots on that page.

Corky said:
ugh I really hope this thread was somekind of elaborate scheme, an ingenious trap on bish's part where he will retroactively ban everybody who trolled in this topic

*please lord let it happen*
Click to expand...
I've actually considered this, reviewed my posts and luckily came to the conclusion that besides joking about the ever moving releasedate of GT5 I'm still on the safe side of the fence.
 
C

charsace

Member
The game uses the hardware tessellation for the models. The demo is probably based on an earlier build so the tessellation probably doesn't have the same LOD setting that the full game will have.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
[Nintex] said:
Except for some AA and the difference in resolution between those shots and the real deal, Forza 3 looks just like the screenshots on that page.
Click to expand...

Have you missed the last 15 pages of the thread?
Everyone is just beginning to find out that there is *more* than a difference in AA/resolution in the photomode shots.
 
N

[Nintex]

Member
theignoramus said:
Have you missed the last 15 pages of the thread?
Everyone is just beginning to find out that there is *more* than a difference in AA/resolution in the photomode shots.
Click to expand...
You mean the extra tesselation, due to ATi's awesomeness? Maybe they need to switch that on in-game and they don't want to spoil the surprise. Anyway, we'll have the answer in a few weeks. If it doesn't have tesselation in-game, well too bad I'll enjoy driving around with one of my 400 custom Sonic the Hedgehog cars anyway.
 
lowrider007

lowrider007

Licorice-flavoured booze?
stuburns said:
I think even Che would concede that GT5's car models are better. Regardless of PR bullshittery.
Click to expand...

He would be disillusioned to think otherwise tbh, I love both franchises but it's as clear as day that the car models are better in GT (Prologue even), let alone GT5.

I'm just glad I'm not one of these types that thinks that a moderate difference in quality determines with game is best, if they were identical games I'd probably say otherwise but they are not, I honestly believe that GT5 and Forza 3 will be fantastic games in their own right.


Fredrik said:
Gran Turismo fan here. I still haven't played the Forza 3 demo, I don't pay for online gaming and Silver members have to wait a bit more for the demo for some reason. BUT, I have played the demo of Forza 2 and judging by that you are soooo way off with the conclusion that Forza is more arcadey than GT. It's the other way around. In a biiig way. But for me that's actually a good thing (for GT), I tried the demo of Forza 2 and realised that it wasn't for me, I could barely get myself around the track... :/
Click to expand...

Ummmm, strange, I personally find GT:p a lot harder than Forza 2 in terms of handling, Forza 2 does in my eyes feel alot more accessible than GT for first time sim drivers, I think that GT penalises you alot more when braking late into a corner for example.

Personally I don't really know which one has the most realistic physics, I've never even driven a real car so it would be hard for me to gage.
 
D

Diablohead

Member
charsace said:
The game uses the hardware tessellation for the models. The demo is probably based on an earlier build so the tessellation probably doesn't have the same LOD setting that the full game will have.
Click to expand...
I don't think this is the case otherwise che or someone would have come out and told us, they are not saying anything about this to us. If the demo was that different you would think someone from turn 10 would say so.
 
B

BenjaminBirdie

Banned
web01 said:
Just because it isnt CG doesnt mean its a bullshot, disgusting.
Click to expand...

:lol

I'm seriously beginning to suspect that if some people in this thread were in a locked room with Che with no windows...very bad things would happen.
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
lowrider007 said:
He would be disillusioned to think otherwise tbh, I love both franchises but it's as clear as day that the car models are better in GT (Prologue even), let alone GT5.

I'm just glad I'm not one of these types of better that thinks that a moderate difference in quality determines with game is best, if they we're identical games I'd probably say otherwise but they are not, I honestly believe that GT5 and Forza 3 will be fantastic game in their own right.
Click to expand...
Well just having better car models doesn't mean it looks better. FM3's cockpit view is more 'useable' to me. The environments are nicer, they're a little dirtier looking. GT5P is way too clean and sterile.

But yeah, regardless of visuals, they're both going to be great, and although I'll probably prefer GT5 because I prefer the way it plays, I actually think if I could be totally objective and rate them as products, FM3 would probably be better. Which is kind of the root of my issue with that type of game reviews actually.
 
I

iratA

Member
Fredrik said:
Gran Turismo fan here. I still haven't played the Forza 3 demo, I don't pay for online gaming and Silver members have to wait a bit more for the demo for some reason. BUT, I have played the demo of Forza 2 and judging by that you are soooo way off with the conclusion that Forza is more arcadey than GT. It's the other way around. In a biiig way. But for me that's actually a good thing (for GT), I tried the demo of Forza 2 and realised that it wasn't for me, I could barely get myself around the track... :/
Click to expand...

To each their own. Forza is a great game make no mistake but I get the feeling that Forza is trying to be all things to all people. Almost in the same way NFS Shift has taken the NFS franchise. Coming from GT, Forza just feels a little too arcadey for me. Forza draws many comparisons with GT because "oh look Yeah it has cockpit view, high poly car models and extensive feature lists", but this alone does not make it more or less of an arcade racer. Too me its how the cars handle combined with other design decisions that lend a game a sense of realism or not.
 
KZObsessed

KZObsessed

Member
BenjaminBirdie said:
:lol

I'm seriously beginning to suspect that if some people in this thread were in a locked room with Che with no windows...very bad things would happen.
Click to expand...

buttsecks

...but that's no bad thing...
 
D

DeadGzuz

Banned
theignoramus said:
We released a generous helping of Forza Motorsport 3 screenshots and videos this week. If you haven't seen them yet, go check 'em out in our Media Gallery. There are some things you should know about these screenshots. First of all, at Turn 10, we don't bullshot -- which means everything you see here is real-time taken from in-game gameplay. The E3 batch was taken back in early May, and given how the development process works, the game is improving just about daily, so the bottomline is that these screenshots are from a work-in-progress. Naturally, the game will actually look better by the time it comes out later this fall. The reason why you might have mistaken these screenshots as faked, touched-up, or embellished art is because Forza 3 is an exceedingly gorgeous game.

There's really no bigger graphics junkie than myself at Turn 10 and I'm constantly surprised by just how insanely next generation the game looks from a visual standpoint. Not only have the cars themselves gotten much more detailed, our 100+ tracks in the game provide some truly inspired locales to fuel your car passion. Much of the leap in graphical fidelity with Forza 3 was made possible by our game engine developers, whom, in the early days (think summer of 2007) set out to rebuild a new renderer and content pipeline for Forza 3. So just like before, Forza 3 runs at a glassy smooth 60 frames-per-second, with our physics calculating underneath the hood at a much higher framerate. New shaders and tech puts the finishing touches on an already handsome Forza Motorsport 2. Likewise, with the gameplay video, everything was captured in-game with no faked CG whatsoever. At Turn 10, we don't do bullshots.
Click to expand...

You just won the thread,lol.
 
T

theignoramus

Member
[Nintex] said:
You mean the extra tesselation, due to ATi's awesomeness? Maybe they need to switch that on in-game and they don't want to spoil the surprise. Anyway, we'll have the answer in a few weeks. If it doesn't have tesselation in-game, well too bad I'll enjoy driving around with one of my 400 custom Sonic the Hedgehog cars anyway.
Click to expand...
Maybe.
http://forums.forzamotorsport.net/fo...d.aspx#2975508
Chespace said:
The demo is visually representative of the full-game so racing in-game won't look much different.

I don't see that many jaggies on my multiple TVs at home and at work, but everyone's setups can be varied.
Click to expand...

Chespace said:
Screenshots released so far have been photomode shots so yes that's what you'll see in exported replays and photomode. I should actually release some exported replay WMVs since they look really good and will give you an idea what you'll be able to do once the game comes out.
Click to expand...


As you can see, he gives zero indication the visual fidelity of the demo will be improved in the final game and zero indication that demo is a buggy, earlier build. And how early can the demo possibly be? At E3, the cockpits were 30 fps.
 
N

[Nintex]

Member
I've just seen Che's posts on the Forza site, well he confirms that the demo looks just like the final game, so what you see is what you get so to speak. For car models the GT team gets 1 point, lets give them a round of applause and get on with the environments!
 
lowrider007

lowrider007

Licorice-flavoured booze?
stuburns said:
But yeah, regardless of visuals, they're both going to be great, and although I'll probably prefer GT5 because I prefer the way it plays, I actually think if I could be totally objective and rate them as products, FM3 would probably be better. Which is kind of the root of my issue with that type of game reviews actually.
Click to expand...

It's funny, I prefer the way GT looks, I love the clean sterile look, it feels very PC sim'ish, but in terms of handling I prefer Forza (mainly because I find it easier), so I'm the opposite to you on that front, I really do appreciate each others strength though, in terms of visuals I really think they both balance out in the end, when comparing Forza 2 and GT:p I'm always noticing little things that I prefer in each of them, cars models in one, track details in another, texture quality in one, environment modelling in another etc, I could go on.

I really think that overall they come out pretty even tbh, ultimately it comes down to which style you prefer, because they both have their own 'look', and which one you prefer in terms of handling, and you like me prefer the look of one but the handling of another (I'm sure like many others to) but I think that's a good thing in the end as you tend appreciate both games more.
 
D

Dra-Q

Banned
[Nintex] said:
I've just seen Che's posts on the Forza site, well he confirms that the demo looks just like the final game, so what you see is what you get so to speak. For car models the GT team gets 1 point, lets give them a round of applause and get on with the environments!
Click to expand...

U mad?

Better luck next gen Turn 10 and don't troll the Gran Turismo series until you beat it.
 
Q

qirex99

Banned
iratA said:
Cue: Longwinded speech

So I just got done getting my hands dirty with the Forza 3 Demo. Now having never played a Forza game before in my life I have the following to say. Honestly it looks just like this screen above and my biggest problem is the game just comes off feeling way to arcadey/gamey if you know what I mean. Just take a look at the picture above and tell me that those colours (both cars and track) don't give you an arcade racer vibe. The colours are almost to vibrant/saturated and in general lack shades of colour you would expect to find in real cars. GT, Shift and to a lesser extent Burnout Paradise come much closer to RL in this regard. If your doubting what I'm saying go and re-have a look at some of the paintwork in burnout, its still very impressive, if a little glossy.

The minute you begin to play Forza, you realise that the game is geared far more towards accessability instead of any sort of realism. I found all the cars had massive amounts of grip and then would let there tails loose very suddenly. But the cars also seem to have samey suspension set ups. Take the Mini for a drive and tell me how much different the car dips into a corner compared to the Audi or the Porsche. I get the feeling Turn 10 made certain sacrifices in the physics department to achieve that same level of accessability regardless of which car a player chooses. That, in and of its self is fine, but it just detracts from the realism coming from GT5p/GT4 where the cars really feel so different from one another. Overall the cars just feel a little more on rails in Forza I suppose.

Having said all that, I found I was adjusting to what was going on right in front of me and the game can be a lot of fun once your a custom. The game just feels far less sim to me than what I was expecting.
Click to expand...


....sounds like you described the Forza "thing" exactly - (with the assists on!)

at least in the 1st 3, peeling each away revealed more and more of the physics engine. Forza games always are easy for a novice to play, but the pros turn off the assists.

I usually leave the abs and tcm on, that is all.
 
A

Atrophis

Member
stuburns said:
I'm surprised people think it's worth complaining about it. I thought it looked great. Yeah next to Shift it looks like mediocre, as does GT5 to a degree, but they're not running at 30fps.
Click to expand...

You crazy! Shift, visually, is pants compared to F3 and GT5. Even at 60fps on my PC.
 
N

nib95

Banned
Funny thing happened. I let my flat mates have a little test run with the Forza 3 demo (I'm the big sim fan in the house, but they've played F2 and GT5P). I turned off all assists except ABS, selected the R8 (the popular car of choice) and let them rip. One of them said straight after his lap when I asked him what he thought of it.

"I think I like it more than GT5. Just seems more fun. I reckon this is going to be the best arcade equivalent to GT." (he also did mention something about the backgrounds being more colourful and lush)

To which my response was; "You know this is regarded by may as the best console racing sim out there?"

To which his response was; "Are you sure? It just seems so much easier"


Which brings me to my main criticism of the demo. I do also think they've made the game too accessible now. Not necessarily in comparison to GT5P, but also to F2 (which was infinitely less forgiving). You have to fight to try and get your car to spin out with all assists off in anything but the race car. No matter how hard you push it, it doesn't seem to want to give out. And that ain't right. With TCS off, these high performance cars should be hard to tame. Instead they Sunday drive. Somewhere along the line the physics balancing went a little wrong. Hopefully this is sorted in the final game.
 
X

-x.Red.x-

Member
I like shift...
that what im playing till spring2010 :D

also with that turn 10 post, what happen to "no other game can do this" at E3...
admitted defeat?
 
J

jaypah

Member
Tom Penny said:
So GT5 has better car models. Forza 3 has better environments.

/thread
Click to expand...

while it would be nice for both sides to claim a victory and move on, you know it'll never happen. personally because of the cars and lighting i'd easily give the overall graphics crown to PD. do i like the tracks better in F3? yes. do i expect a GT fanatic to ever agree that Forza could possibly do something better than GT? :lol thread speaks for itself.

though to be honest, supporting the topdog franchise for so long does that to people, and not just in video games. it's just the way people are. luckily for me i hold no stock for either company and can enjoy both without all of the emotional attachment. the car model graphics crown will probably go to PD well into the next generation. they're just too damn good at what they do. it's just that i can also admit that Forza has managed to snipe them in a few categories. competition is good for us. you know, consumers?
 
T

theignoramus

Member
jaypah said:
while it would be nice for both sides to claim a victory and move on, you know it'll never happen. personally because of the cars and lighting i'd easily give the overall graphics crown to PD. do i like the tracks better in F3? yes. do i expect a GT fanatic to ever agree that Forza could possibly do something better than GT? :lol thread speaks for itself.

though to be honest, supporting the topdog franchise for so long does that to people, and not just in video games. it's just the way people are. luckily for me i hold no stock for either company and can enjoy both without all of the emotional attachment. the car model graphics crown will probably go to PD well into the next generation. they're just too damn good at what they do. it's just that i can also admit that Forza has managed to snipe them in a few categories. competition is good for us. you know, consumers?
Click to expand...


:lol
You're the goofball from the FM3 thread that argued that the slogan "The Real Driving Simulator"
was a genuine troll of the competition.
Pull off your mask already.
 
K

KaYotiX

Banned
so have we decided what TIRES or other upgrades are on the cars in the demo?? That could be a reason why the cars dont break loose easier, didnt read through every post
 
K

kobashi100

Banned
why is nobody talking A.I and CPU Intelligence. I have not got a PS3 so cannot compare the two games but I do know that all the past GT games I played were full of boring dumb A.I.

How is it in GT5 compared to Forza?
 
S

StuBurns

Banned
kobashi100 said:
why is nobody talking A.I and CPU Intelligence. I have not got a PS3 so cannot compare the two games but I do know that all the past GT games I played were full of boring dumb A.I.

How is it in GT5 compared to Forza?
Click to expand...
Because we don't have GT5, it makes comparing it very hard.
 
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