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Aters · Apr 4, 2016

Obliterator said:
I really do think it would be better if they would just drop this to 900p locked and put in better AA solution.

Absolutely.
Battlefront is locked on 900p, and it is gorgeous! That game has some really impressive lighting and particle effect too. SE should really drop the dynamic resolution, just improve the AA and frame pace.

Y2Kev said:
I see this and get worried. Look at all the fields you can...walk around in!

Let me guess, you love FFXIII don't you?

Northeastmonk said:
Graphically, it's a large pallet with little to add to it. I saw the screenshots of a few classic enemies, but how far apart are they really? How long do I have to walk/run to get to another enemy?

If Episode Duscae is any indication, shorter than you want. In fact, you are constantly encountering enemies (not just monsters in the field, sometimes an airship will drop some robot soldiers on you, which is pretty cool for the first few times) to a point that you wish you can walk around without them, which is why Chocobo is kind of crucial in that demo.

SE really should just release that Duscae demo instead the weird thing we get. At least people won't be worrying about empty field.

platina · Apr 4, 2016

The Luminous engine is just way too ambitious (which is a good thing). I mean if it wasn't for the horrible sharpen effect present on all screens the game would look much better. I really do think that some of the offline assets are brought into realtime via an algorithm present in the engine. The character models look really close except for the overload of aa. Here's more comparisons of cg vs in-engine.

Their LOD method is very strange. I do wonder what these screens would look like in 900p with fxaa, probably much, much cleaner.

DeSolos · Apr 4, 2016

platina said:
The Luminous engine is just way too ambitious (which is a good thing). I mean if it wasn't for the horrible sharpen effect present on all screens the game would look much better. I really do think that some of the offline assets are brought into realtime via an algorithm present in the engine. The character models look really close except for the overload of aa. Here's more comparisons of cg vs in-engine.

Their LOD method is very strange. I do wonder what these screens would look like in 900p with fxaa, probably much, much cleaner.

I'm just going to assume the in game Altissia is still work in progress, because it looks almost unpresentable in its current state. At the very least they should think about saturating some of the textures. Everything looks so drab and lifeless(not just in this shot, but also in the demo) compared to the original prerendered shot. The lack of waterfalls on the side really hurts the atmosphere, but I understand the difficulties with that design as there would need to be a sufficiently sized body of water feeding the waterfalls(which they'd be forced to make because it's open world).

As for their high poly to low poly workflow, I would imagine they do it like all other game companies, retopology. For animated characters retopology is best done by hand(there are awesome tools to assist this like Topogun 2), but static props can have low poly versions generated really easily in programs like Zbrush(the Zremesher feature is really good in my experience).

Yarbskoo · Apr 4, 2016

platina said:

I can tell there's an awesome environment here, but I can't quite make it out because someone blurred the whole screen.

Astral Dog · Apr 4, 2016

platina said:
The Luminous engine is just way too ambitious (which is a good thing). I mean if it wasn't for the horrible sharpen effect present on all screens the game would look much better. I really do think that some of the offline assets are brought into realtime via an algorithm present in the engine. The character models look really close except for the overload of aa. Here's more comparisons of cg vs in-engine.

Their LOD method is very strange. I do wonder what these screens would look like in 900p with fxaa, probably much, much cleaner.

God that first one breaks my heart, not that i expected the city to look the same but still

WickedLaharl · Apr 4, 2016

platina said:
The Luminous engine is just way too ambitious (which is a good thing). I mean if it wasn't for the horrible sharpen effect present on all screens the game would look much better. I really do think that some of the offline assets are brought into realtime via an algorithm present in the engine. The character models look really close except for the overload of aa. Here's more comparisons of cg vs in-engine.

Their LOD method is very strange. I do wonder what these screens would look like in 900p with fxaa, probably much, much cleaner.

The luminous engine is garbage. What does it say when even the designers of the thing can't get it to scale?

I guess it's good at target renders?

wmlk · Apr 4, 2016

DeSolos said:
I'm just going to assume the in game Altissia is still work in progress, because it looks almost unpresentable in its current state. At the very least they should think about saturating some of the textures. Everything looks so drab and lifeless(not just in this shot, but also in the demo) compared to the original prerendered shot. The lack of waterfalls on the side really hurts the atmosphere, but I understand the difficulties with that design as there would need to be a sufficiently sized body of water feeding the waterfalls(which they'd be forced to make because it's open world).

As for their high poly to low poly workflow, I would imagine they do it like all other game companies, retopology. For animated characters retopology is best done by hand(there are awesome tools to assist this like Topogun 2), but static props can have low poly versions generated really easily in programs like Zbrush(the Zremesher feature is really good in my experience).

I would complain a lot about Altissia, but the art direction and the general look of it (which is still great) is still amazing. This town like the rest of the game should be seamless, and you can traverse the waters with a gondola. There's not one locale like that in any game I've played, that's for sure.

I never expected E3 2013 CG levels of graphical fidelity. No one should have. This is actually above my expectations. The waterfall to the right being removed is the thing I am most upset about.

EDIT: and you have to consider that shot is something we'll never look at in game so the LOD wouldn't appear as bad or as aggressive.

Aters · Apr 4, 2016

DeSolos said:
I'm just going to assume the in game Altissia is still work in progress, because it looks almost unpresentable in its current state. At the very least they should think about saturating some of the textures. Everything looks so drab and lifeless(not just in this shot, but also in the demo) compared to the original prerendered shot. The lack of waterfalls on the side really hurts the atmosphere, but I understand the difficulties with that design as there would need to be a sufficiently sized body of water feeding the waterfalls(which they'd be forced to make because it's open world).

I guess all the empty towns with no NPC or other moving objects are drab and lifeless?
I hope there's more waterfalls though.

wmlk said:
EDIT: and you have to consider that shot is something we'll never look at in game so the LOD wouldn't appear as bad or as aggressive.

Guess what's the first thing I will do when I get my airship.

wmlk · Apr 4, 2016

Aters said:
I guess all the empty towns with no NPC or other moving objects are drab and lifeless?
I hope there's more waterfalls though.

Guess what's the first thing I will do when I get my airship.

I don't think we'll be able to freely fly around with the car.

Vincent Grayson · Apr 4, 2016

wmlk said:
I don't think we'll be able to freely fly around with the car.

The end of that trailer sure makes it look that way.

It'd be really awkward if an open world game only allows flying in certain zones or whatever.

Aters · Apr 4, 2016

wmlk said:
I don't think we'll be able to freely fly around with the car.

If they show the end of that trailer and later tell us we can't control our car in air, they will be facing some furious anger. By furious I mean I will be one of them.

DarkLordMalik · Apr 4, 2016

Aters said:
If they show the end of that trailer and later tell us we can't control our car in air, they will be facing some furious anger. By furious I mean I will be one of them.

The flying car is definitely free to control. We will have to land it carefully though.

Sub Boss said:
God that first one breaks my heart, not that i expected the city to look the same but still

Not for me. I am glad that they have managed to design an actual city around it which is explorable and while it doesn't match the pre-rendered concept 100%, it looks pretty damn good if you aren't looking at both of them side-by-side.

It is certainly possible that SE could have built the city same as concept art in actual playable state but that would have required considerable resources and time that they simply don't have right now. I'd rather have a game with multiple locations and an open world than SE focusing on a single area like Altissia to match the concept art.

It is hilarious to suddenly see the turn-around here regarding the story trailer, where we had earlier people commenting on it saying it was from some magical PC/PS4K build

. All it takes is a closer look at the actual trailer to notice the flaws, like in the Altissia shot, the LOD appears to be quite low and there is shadow dithering and jaggies everywhere.

Insumatposa · Apr 4, 2016

And I thought Luminous engine looked so promising with its hair tech and dynamic GI. I don't know what really happened.

Evil Monkey DTT · Apr 4, 2016

While these pictures really highlight it.... i'll be honest when I was playing the demo I didn't notice any of this. My jaw was on the floor the entire time visually speaking.

Insumatposa · Apr 4, 2016

Evil Monkey DTT said:
While these pictures really highlight it.... i'll be honest when I was playing the demo I didn't notice any of this. My jaw was on the floor the entire time visually speaking.

Lighting is just top-notch in this demo. There were just few hiccups like downgraded AA and textures (from Duscae) and this bad sharpening. Apart from that the demo looked on paar with the best AAA games. The hype and expectations for this game have been so great, that is why many of us were so nitpicky

Papacheeks · Apr 4, 2016

Evil Monkey DTT said:
While these pictures really highlight it.... i'll be honest when I was playing the demo I didn't notice any of this. My jaw was on the floor the entire time visually speaking.

It's gaf dude, people have ridiculous bars set way too high. I watched the new trailer hat showed gameplay from the game and not the demo. When I saw the riding chocobo animation I shit my pants.

gamerMan · Apr 4, 2016

Yarbskoo said:
I can tell there's an awesome environment here, but I can't quite make it out because someone blurred the whole screen.

I think when the engine has a lot to render onscreen everything starts to looks blurry and not detailed. There are times when the demo looked pretty good but that was when there was hardly anything on the screen.

The entire engine looks dated. The hair looks like it is using the old school shells method which results in the dotted look. It basically creates shells of the model that are placed close to each other to simulate volume. A transparent texture is applied on each shell to make parts of the shell transparent. If you stack enough of these shells together you can create the appearance of hair. Each layer looks like a dot in 3D space.

The problem with this method is at certain angles, you can see the gaps between the shells especially when you get close to the model. I feel really this isn't an engine designed to take advantage of today's hardware. It looks like it was designed to run on last gen hardware.

Coolbgdog12 · Apr 4, 2016

Eh, I thought the demo looked fukking horrible. I more so hated how blurry and sometimes dark the game looked. Like the areas where lighting wasn't hitting was very dark.

DarkLordMalik · Apr 4, 2016

Coolbgdog12 said:
Eh, I thought the demo looked fukking horrible. I more so hated how blurry and sometimes dark the game looked. Like the areas where lighting wasn't hitting was very dark.

Global Illumination.

FFXV is one of the few games that utilizes it in real-time.

Insumatposa · Apr 4, 2016

gamerMan said:
I think when the engine has a lot to render onscreen everything starts to looks blurry and not detailed. There are times when the demo looked pretty good but that was when there was hardly anything on the screen.

The entire engine looks dated. The hair looks like it is using the old school shells method which results in the dotted look. It basically creates shells of the model that are placed close to each other to simulate volume. A transparent texture is applied on each shell to make parts of the shell transparent. If you stack enough of these shells together you can create the appearance of hair. Each layer looks like a dot in 3D space.

The problem with this method is at certain angles, you can see the gaps between the shells especially when you get close to the model. I feel really this isn't an engine designed to take advantage of today's hardware. It looks like it was designed to run on last gen hardware.

When they were showcasing the hair tech for the Luminous Engine it looked so great and even better than HairWorks and TressFX. Now it looks like you said unfortunately:
they are using an old tech not suited for this gen, unless they fix the bad sharpening and the bad AA, if this corrects the bad look then it is fine, otherwise I am afraid what you said is true (eventhough I still doubt that they are using the old shell methods because such tech doesn't allow fluid hair simulation, that is why I still suspect it is the cause of bad AA and sharpening filter, well at least I hope so).

DarkLordMalik said:
Global Illumination.

FFXV is one of the few games that utilizes it in real-time.

Exactly and not just static one but a dynamic one too.

Chezzymann · Apr 4, 2016

looks like a vita game

wmlk · Apr 4, 2016

Are we sure that the game doesn't have motion blur?

You can see it there.

.JayZii · Apr 4, 2016

Chezzymann said:
looks like a vita game

Trash game for trash people, bruh.

Doesn't screenshot well. 3/10

digdug2k · Apr 4, 2016

enigmatic_alex44 said:
Am I the only one who thinks this game is gorgeous? Did you see the floor and walls in the long hallway?

Plus art direction > tech and XV has flawless art direction.

I just got to play a bit tonight finally. Didn't look bad to me (didn't make it too far before my son started attacking). But the text is way too small and the controls/camera we're borderline the worst I've used in a decade. TBH, those concern me more. Prettiest game in the world is still shit if they don't put any time into make it control well.

InsaneTiger · Apr 4, 2016

Chezzymann said:
looks like a vita game

wmlk · Apr 4, 2016

digdug2k said:
I just got to play a bit tonight finally. Didn't look bad to me (didn't make it too far before my son started attacking). But the text is way too small and the controls/camera we're borderline the worst I've used in a decade. TBH, those concern me more. Prettiest game in the world is still shit if they don't put any time into make it control well.

Just curious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV-ANQvMkXg&feature=youtu.be

Were you playing the game like this? People who have experimented figured the combat system out because the game doesn't explain its nuances.

DarkLordMalik · Apr 4, 2016

I am sure that while there are some genuine posters here who have played the game and talk about it looking underwhelming, there are a lot more who are simply judging the game based on screenshot while it looks "NOTHING" like the static screenshot implies in actual motion. It might look bad at times but not as worse as the screenshots show.

The game is currently running on an experimental dynamic resolution along with a temporal AA that blurs the overall IQ and then a sharpening filter to counter it. This effect is not as noticeable when we play the game but it is an eye sore in the screenshots.

TheYanger · Apr 4, 2016

DarkLordMalik said:
I am sure that while there are some genuine posters here who have played the game and talk about it looking underwhelming, there are a lot more who are simply judging the game based on screenshot while it looks "NOTHING" like the static screenshot implies in actual motion. It might look bad at times but not as worse as the screenshots show.

The game is currently running on an experimental dynamic resolution along with a temporal AA that blurs the overall IQ and then a sharpening filter to counter it. This effect is not as noticeable when we play the game but it is an eye sore in the screenshots.

No, I think it looks really really fucking awful in person. I decided that after playing the demo the minute it went up before reading what anyone else thought. You don't have to apologize for the Demo, really.

ethomaz · Apr 4, 2016

wmlk said:
Just curious.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bV-ANQvMkXg&feature=youtu.be

Were you playing the game like this? People who have experimented figured the combat system out because the game doesn't explain its nuances.

The combat is terrible even if you understand it IMO.

Do cool things doesn't make a good combat system.

The combat part is way more critical for me than the bad graphics.

Aters · Apr 4, 2016

Chezzymann said:
looks like a vita game

That would be a damn good Vita game to be able to see the mud on someone's face.

Askherserenity · Apr 4, 2016

Aters said:
That would be a damn good Vita game to be able to see the mud on someone's face.

Yeah, I'm sure that streak of mud is very graphic intensive.

Garrett Hawke · Apr 4, 2016

Chezzymann said:
looks like a vita game

can I borrow your vita

wmlk · Apr 4, 2016

ethomaz said:
The combat is terrible even if you understand it IMO.

Do cool things doesn't make a good combat system.

The combat part is way more critical for me than the bad graphics.

The manoeuvring going in here will be critical for certain enemy types. Take the Behemoth in Duscae for example. If you hold circle against it, you will die in 30 seconds. You have to take a different approach like this one where you're using ranged projectiles, shielding, warping behind it so you're not in the hitbox, etc. This is also without party members, summons, weapon customization, better magic, armour, Armiger loadouts, and even more advanced skills.

You also have to use a lot of these techniques because it's required for enemies like this. https://gfycat.com/WaryAptAmethystinepython#?speed=0.5

To see the stuff you can do with a common enemy like the Iron Giant is fascinating. This demo is rough around the edges to say the least, but damn if it didn't instill a lot of faith in what they're doing.

Just because it looks cool doesn't mean it isn't good.

Aters · Apr 4, 2016

Askherserenity said:
Yeah, I'm sure that streak of mud is very graphic intensive.

Well, no other Vita game has done it, so I'd say yes.

ethomaz · Apr 4, 2016

wmlk said:
The manoeuvring going in here will be critical for certain enemy types. Take the Behemoth in Duscae for example. If you hold circle against it, you will die in 30 seconds. You have to take a different approach like this one where you're using ranged projectiles, shielding, warping behind it so you're not in the hitbox, etc. This is also without party members, summons, weapon customization, better magic, armour, Armiger loadouts, and even more advanced skills.

You also have to use a lot of these techniques because it's required for enemies like this. https://gfycat.com/WaryAptAmethystinepython#?speed=0.5

To see the stuff you can do with a common enemy like the Iron Giant is fascinating. This demo is rough around the edges to say the least, but damn if it didn't instill a lot of faith in what they're doing.

Just because it looks cool doesn't mean it isn't good.

Right now the combat is what put me off from the game like happened with FFXIII (to be fair FFXIII had a less bad combat than FFXV).

I know some people will like it but to be fair the combat will make a lot of FF fans not buy this game.

I want to be dead wrong but it will sell way less than FFXIII did.

Gameplay is something really important for me in games (yeap I did not get into The Witcher 3 because the crap combat system too).

wmlk · Apr 4, 2016

ethomaz said:
Right now the combat is what put me off from the game like happened with FFXIII (to be fair FFXIII had a less bad combat than FFXV).

I know some people will like it but to be fair the combat will make a lot of FF fans not buy this game.

I want to be dead wrong but it will sell way less than FFXIII did.

I don't care about sales. I'm just saying what's here has the makings of a great action RPG since you can already do so much with such few tools. And new FF fans come with every generation, anyway. This is the way it's always been.

flipswitch · Apr 4, 2016

This was my first taste of FFXV and I must say I was let down by the visuals, I was really expecting it look much better. It was rough, aliasing, blur, inconsistent fps, sub-native res. I thought it looked better from the videos on YT, but in person yeah bit disappointed. Hope they have time to polish it up for release, and this is coming from someone who has barely played any FF games.

Lovely Salsa · Apr 4, 2016

flipswitch said:
This was my first taste of FFXV and I must say I was let down by the visuals, I was really expecting it look much better. It was rough, aliasing, blur, inconsistent fps, sub-native res. I thought it looked better from the videos on YT, but in person yeah bit disappointed. Hope they have time to polish it up for release, and this is coming from someone who has barely played any FF games.

Duscae demo looks much better than this

HeelPower · Apr 4, 2016

Chezzymann said:
looks like a vita game

not really..its more of a PS1-PS2~ish cross gen title.

LowParry · Apr 4, 2016

HeelPower said:
not really..its more of a PS1-PS2~ish cross gen title.

I'd like to see someone compare these PS1/PS2 screenshots to that one. I just find those kinds of statements extremely confusing.

Icyflamez96 · Apr 4, 2016

I dunno it looks like an early magnavox odyssey game

platina · Apr 4, 2016

What are the chances from now to release that the game: doesn't get downgraded, they improve their taa solution and manage to hit 1080p on the ps4? I mean look at this, i just uncovered a neat little trick, the pause screen takes about 1-2 seconds for 99% of jaggies to clear up it's the best case scenario full 1080p with great aa. wow
edit: added better comparisons

Look at the shoes:

It's not just limited to characters either:

Now that looks stunning!

T-0800 · Apr 4, 2016

platina said:
Now that looks stunning!

It really doesn't.

23qwerty · Apr 4, 2016

platina said:
What are the chances from now to release that the game: doesn't get downgraded, they improve their taa solution and manage to hit 1080p on the ps4? I mean look at this, i just uncovered a neat little trick, the pause screen takes about 1-2 seconds for 99% of jaggies to clear up it's the best case scenario full 1080p with great aa. wow

Now that looks stunning!

Whaaaaaat that's so odd

orthodoxy1095 · Apr 4, 2016

platina said:
What are the chances from now to release that the game: doesn't get downgraded, they improve their taa solution and manage to hit 1080p on the ps4? I mean look at this, i just uncovered a neat little trick, the pause screen takes about 1-2 seconds for 99% of jaggies to clear up it's the best case scenario full 1080p with great aa. wow

Look at the shoes:

Now that looks stunning!

The screens you took look better, but I can't help but say "meh" still. I guess I'm just jaded at this point.

nelsonroyale · Apr 4, 2016

platina said:
What are the chances from now to release that the game: doesn't get downgraded, they improve their taa solution and manage to hit 1080p on the ps4? I mean look at this, i just uncovered a neat little trick, the pause screen takes about 1-2 seconds for 99% of jaggies to clear up it's the best case scenario full 1080p with great aa. wow
edit: added better comparisons

Look at the shoes:

It's not just limited to characters either:

Now that looks stunning!

Hmm, their AA solution does seem to be failing hard.

A lot of the posts on here read like Youtube comments unfortunately.

chozen · Apr 4, 2016

platina said:
The Luminous engine is just way too ambitious (which is a good thing). I mean if it wasn't for the horrible sharpen effect present on all screens the game would look much better. I really do think that some of the offline assets are brought into realtime via an algorithm present in the engine. The character models look really close except for the overload of aa. Here's more comparisons of cg vs in-engine.

Holy shit those accordo screens make me cry.

They had all this time and more and that thing looks butchered and gimped, and scale wise it is smaller.

Waterfalls on left and right are missing and ugh... I wish I didn't see the cg version of an otherwise beautiful city.. Please tell me it isn't the final version and that they used some old unfinished footage..

texhnolyze · Apr 4, 2016

CcrooK said:
I'd like to see someone compare these PS1/PS2 screenshots to that one. I just find those kinds of statements extremely confusing.

That's just sarcasm I believe. But holy shit if not joking.

platina said:
What are the chances from now to release that the game: doesn't get downgraded, they improve their taa solution and manage to hit 1080p on the ps4? I mean look at this, i just uncovered a neat little trick, the pause screen takes about 1-2 seconds for 99% of jaggies to clear up it's the best case scenario full 1080p with great aa. wow
edit: added better comparisons

Now that looks stunning!

Ok, those paused screens look great indeed. Much better than actual gameplay shots.

Always-honest · Apr 4, 2016

platina said:
What are the chances from now to release that the game: doesn't get downgraded, they improve their taa solution and manage to hit 1080p on the ps4? I mean look at this, i just uncovered a neat little trick, the pause screen takes about 1-2 seconds for 99% of jaggies to clear up it's the best case scenario full 1080p with great aa. wow
edit: added better comparisons
http://i.cubeupload.com/mDU3RC.png
[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/Mz8Yeu.png[
[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/mLGeT7.png
Look at the shoes:
[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/IK8JyK.png
It's not just limited to characters either:
[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/PJpGCI.png
[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/pSf9pL.png
[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/ve9Lrz.png[/
[IMG]http://i.cubeupload.com/RDxc03.png[

Now that looks stunning![/QUOTE]

That does look a lot better because the jaggies are KILLING this game.
They are completley ruining the art and all the good that the game has going for it.

HeelPower · Apr 4, 2016

CcrooK said:
I'd like to see someone compare these PS1/PS2 screenshots to that one. I just find those kinds of statements extremely confusing.

I was just spewing BS.

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