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Eurogamer: How PS4 Neo & PS4 will co-exist
- Thread starter Turkoop
- Start date
But if they do this then everyone that gets a PS4K will complain that devs are lazy and are forcing parity (PS4 vs XB1 deja vu but now funny enough inside Playstation family...) and they are not getting what they paid for by having the more powerful PS4. But at the same time, if they put 30fps vs 60fps on the same multiplayer environment those same devs are shitting on the bigger userbase by having them playing at a very unfair environment.
Clearly this isn't a win-win for developers, and they will end up going to upset one of the segments of the PS4 userbase.
If I had to guess they will do everything to avoid this kind of scenarios until PS4K actually has a decent userbase (~Fall 2018) and then Sony will change again their policies and allow separate multiplayer lobbies between basic owners and the tier 1 owners so they can push the PS4K specs.
Audioboxer
Member
Or 1080/30 all round and one just looks a lot prettier.
Glorified G
Member
People need to be prepared that this is going to be the norm for most PS4/K games going forward.
Audioboxer
Member
Well maybe for some MP stuff but no reason for FPS parity in SP.
thelastword
Banned
I hope they get a slight boost unpatched, but we will see, I'm sure DF will test that out. 1080p 60fps on PS2 classics would be amazing too, maybe with some further enhancements to AA and filtering.
Destiny could have been 60fps on OG PS4 at 1080p, they went for parity. Destiny 2 at 1080p 60fps on the PS4 is not out of the realm of possibility at all. For a competitive shooter, I think they will aim for the same framerate. So 1080p 60fps PS4, 900p 60fps XB1 and maybe 3240 x 2160 60fps NEO.
Eddie_Khaled
Member
Just cancelled my PS VR order from shopto.
I rather upgrade my console than hop into VR
I rather upgrade my console than hop into VR
Glorified G
Member
It takes more resources to render at twice the framerate. It's not parity to keep both versions at 30FPS. It's developers making the choice to utilize the extra power of the GPU in other areas. Publishers will know they can market the visuals of the neo version better to the consumers by the level of detail improvement as opposed to a framerate increase.
Audioboxer
Member
Well some games might hit high 30's or 40's with an unlocked framerate just now so it doesn't have to strictly be 2x the power.
It certainly would be lovely on some games which are currently compute GPU bound.
If base mode works as is without any changes on Neo and without underclocking the system you should see better performance.
If Neo has Polaris architecture based GPU and it always uses the new features like geometry discard accelerator and better color compression, it would be faster even with underclocking.
Pretty sure it does.
All games seem to output 1080p and then system scales it to whatever you set your display resolution.
Whether or not they do the first scaling in their own code I do not know.
JumPeRJumPzZ
Banned
Nope that isnt right. And we need to stop with this hyperbole
Jefferson1985
Neo Member
Eurogamer: "Neo support for old games is allowed via 'forward compatibility' patching - but this will not be allowed for new titles."
I have a doubt. Old PS4 games will be playable on Neo, only if they get a patch?
Or a patch is only needed for enhanced features?
Sorry for my English.
I have a doubt. Old PS4 games will be playable on Neo, only if they get a patch?
Or a patch is only needed for enhanced features?
Sorry for my English.
Neo will play old games as ps4 games unless they are patched and enhanced in Neo mode.
All new games have a Neo mode.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
I think it means before October this year current and older games can be patched if a publisher/dev wants to. After October all games must work with NEO.
Jefferson1985
Neo Member
Thanks.
Jefferson1985
Neo Member
Do you think older unpatched ps4 games will work wih Neo?
If you get half the fps, or terrible dithered shadows you're also getting the inferior product.
No,.
PS4 Game that's1080p 30 (with sometimes minor drops, just like it is now) = 1080p30 (locked) with prettier graphics on PS4K.
PS4 Game that's 900p/60 (just like there are right now) = 1080p/60 with prettier graphics on PS4K
PS4 Game that's 900p/30 (with drops, just like Assasins Creed/Watch Dogs right now) = 1080p/30 (locked) with prettier graphics on ps4k.
The PS4 release likely aren't going to change. The PS4k releases will just be better. The "prettier graphics" part will vary depending on how much time developers spent on the ps4k mode.
All PS4 games are compatible with NEO. But they will play like PS4 games unless patched to take advantage of the Neo's power.
Keihart
Member
Not buying this new version until i need to replace the console wich almost never happens to me, and even then, i might just go with the regular probably cheaper one at that moment.
I really hope this model to fail just because of how opens the ecosystem to a whole new kind of problems with games performances and early adoption.
hopefully PS5 is coming on 2018 and is backward compatible and they don't just stay on the iterative path.
Edit: Project Morpheus and now project Neo, lol
I really hope this model to fail just because of how opens the ecosystem to a whole new kind of problems with games performances and early adoption.
hopefully PS5 is coming on 2018 and is backward compatible and they don't just stay on the iterative path.
Edit: Project Morpheus and now project Neo, lol
THE:MILKMAN
Member
As Inuhanyou says all PS4 games are/should be compatible as is.
I added some words that clarifies (I think) what Eurogamer is saying?
Eurogamer: "Neo [enhancement] support for old games is allowed via 'forward compatibility' patching - but this will not be allowed for new titles [from October]."
I still think it best to wait for Sony to explain how this is all going to work. A lot won't be correct.
MarkMclovin
Member
Is Neo the official name? Infact has any of this shit been officially announced?
What mind of problems, and why do you see these problems as being too big for the benefits?
LordOfChaos
Member
God damn it Sony, single digit battery life isn't cool!
LordOfChaos
Member
iPad Air 2 vs iPad Pro 9.7?
Maybe the base model will stay around as the cheaper option, with a die shrink to 14nm transistors that APU would get pretty small and cheap.
ricen-beans
Member
This just means the DS4 u have now is guaranteed to work with Neo/PS4k too. No need for another controller. (Good thing)
This doesn't mean Sony can't make their own version of the XBox elite controller that would also work on both systems. (Also good if it happens)
They'll co exist because they are essentially the same console and will play the same games. They don't want to segregate their customers. And having options is never a bad thing. If u don't care about 4K just get the OG PS4 and u can still enjoy uncharted and horizon like the people with the Neo. Plus, the og will be cheaper and thus will entice even more people to join the ps4 nation.
For Sony a PS4 sale is a PS4 sale. Doesn't matter if it's NEO or OG.
Pokemaniac
Member
If it supports scaling, and the requirement has nothing to do with infernal rendering resolution, then why does the requirement even exist?
[Agent]ZeroNine
Member
As the days pass, I've watched this thread turn into nonsensical hyperbole. Ugh.
That being said, I wonder if the draw distance for games will be noticeably different between both models. If it is, i'll probably not jump into the PC market as i had planned.
That being said, I wonder if the draw distance for games will be noticeably different between both models. If it is, i'll probably not jump into the PC market as i had planned.
StrongBlackVine
Banned
To make money. A $250 PS4 would FLY off the shelves this Fall. PS4 Neo is for the hardcore right now.
These consoles are both PS4 with the same components inside both of them. They want a lower cost alternative to their more powerful model. So they get both economic customers and premium customers.
LordOfChaos
Member
Meh. It's 1080p, most PS4 games are already doing it, if you more than double the GPU performance and your came still can't render 1080p it's either an unoptimized mess or you shot waay too high for consoles.
I wonder, if the CUs double, will the ROPs and TMUs? ACEs? Maybe not the latter as they want both to run the same games. But the first two?
PS4 Neo is about trying to extract as much money as they can out of a demographic with a disposable income who enjoy getting the latest stuff. Base PS4 is about reaching as many people as possible with which a low price helps them achieve. Remove the base PS4 and you delay reaching the cheaper demographic until manufacturing costs come down again.
The same reason they had premium SKUs co-exist with lower-priced ones last gen. Any consumer that buys in is equally valuable to them - but premium SKU is there to entice a different type of consumer (and potentially invite rebuys). The major difference is that this time they will be offering actual added value in the new SKU as opposed to cheap marketing gimmicks like bigger Harddrives and extra ports etc.Bluenoser said:
LordOfChaos
Member
It also says the DS4 remains unchanged, I interpreted that as the PS4.5 will come with the DS4. It doesn't just say "DS4 will be compatible with the PS4K".
DeepEnigma
Gold Member
I am sarcastic from time to time, yes.
Every PS4 game has to work on every PS4 hardware, so if a game doesn't meet Neo mode requirements then I assume it can just be played in standard mode. Unless it's been confirmed that every game starting in October needs Neo mode.
I'm expecting more games at 1080/30 with better IQ (+extra effects) and more stable framerate than games being 60 on Neo.
But we'll see.
pixelation
Member
BlackBuzzard dude still hasn't posted i see.
OsirisBlack
Banned
Sorry for the wait work and all, anyways. Notes from a few friends.
As far as the patching of games is concerned it is very doubtful that games will be patched that do not get a lot of post release attention. A great example of a game that would have been in line is Driveclub had sony not closed Evolution studios. He also states that certain games that are released yearly more than likely would not be patched and the studios would more than likely just focus the newer games at a higher spec to showcase the new system.
David believes that games that still sell well month to month may be in line for a more significant amount of attention in a future patch update games like the Witcher III and Grand Theft Auto V. The main focus was on what would be possible through patches and what would not. For example I was told (I have no idea how this works just passing this along) Just about everything including graphics assets could be changed with a big enough patch but most studios wont find it profitable enough to justify those types of changes to older less popular games.
After a few drinks the conversation turned more to the tech side of things where I am if I am being honest completely out of my depth. The general gist was that this thing is a substantial (not minimal) upgrade and could in theory make ports more complicated as the differences in the two games would be obvious if the system is actually utilized.
Conversation got off track at this point with us debating the pros and cons of the thing where yes some developers do think its a bad idea. The main argument is if they spend the time and resources and focus on a very good neo port they should realistically be able to do 1080p with higher graphics assets than the PS4 should be capable of without tanking performance.
Basically PS4 games wont look any worse but if you compared the two side by side if there isn't a noticeable difference then there was little to no effort put into the neo version of the game.
There was also a rant about the cpu being lackluster even with the extra speed but was stated that its better than nothing and there should be no excuse for a game like FFXV to run at less than a locked 30 with some overhead even if they pushed the graphics further.
Were hooking up again this weekend to watch the season premier of GoT ill bring questions if you have them just don't overdo it.
Last bit before I forget everyone I have talked to including Diana would be largely surprised if this thing does not have UHD media capabilities.
Thanks for the update. Bolded sounds a possible hint to a move to Polaris.
And yeah, there's really not much they can do about the CPU.
Are they positioning this as a luxury model, or still trying to keep the margins thin? I ask because I wonder if there's a chance for a BC model with a Cell stuffed in it for PS3 games. I mean the answer is pretty obvious since they're still ignoring PS1 games.
ricen-beans
Member
Thanks so much for the update!
I'm mostly interested in the streaming and remote play capabilities. Will the NEO have a better wifi chip? 5ghz wifi? AC wifi? Supposedly the NEO can stream at 1080p instead of just 720p. Is performance also improved when it comes to remote play? Is it more comparable to steams in home streaming?
Thanks for the update.
The parts I bolded are interesting. And are gonna make for some more nice lil debates in the upcoming months....lol.
For example, what is meant by port? And to add to the post above me....will it have external harddrive support?
PS4K has double the GPU power...it would be possible for devs to make entirely new assets for it, but since this is just another SKU for Sony to sell, i doubt many will take advantage of that...and really they don't need to if they substitute it with higher IQ
Glorified G
Member
Maybe I'm not reading this correctly, but doesn't the bolded contradict each other?
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