• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Daggerfall players, was it really that big?

Robin64

Member
As someone who only started playing Elder Scrolls with Morrowind, I never got to experience Arena and Daggerfall but curiosity led me to reading about them on Wikipedia.

Then I read this on the Daggerfall page:

Bethesda claims that the scale of the game is the size of Great Britain: around 229,848 square kilometers (88,745 square miles), though the actual size of the map is 161,600 km² (62,394 mi²). Youtuber "How Big is the Map?" walked across the entire map from corner to corner. It took him 69 hours and 33 minutes. The game world features over 15,000 towns, cities, villages, and dungeons for the player's character to explore. According to Todd Howard, game director and executive producer for Bethesda, the game's sequel, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind, is 0.01% the size of Daggerfall, but some aspects of Daggerfall's terrain were randomly generated, like the wilderness and some building interiors. The explorable part of Morrowind, Vvardenfell, is 24 km² (9.3 mi²). By comparison, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion is approximately 56.97 km² (22 mi²), and The Elder Scrolls V: Skyrim is 37.1 km² (14.3 mi²), with a quarter of this terrain as unplayable, as it is stuck behind invisible borders.

That's insane. I really can't get my head around that, players must've spent thousands of hours playing this.

Section 18 of the world map alone has like a bajillion dots. How did you ever find your way around? It wouldn't surprise me if people were still playing it and finding new things they've never seen. I appreciate that a lot of the world have been auto-generated, and probably miles of open fields, but even so that's really impressive to me.

dagmap.gif
daggerfallmap.gif

Now... what's the best way to play Daggerfall today?
 

Peltz

Member
Yea, I never played it myself, but heard the size of the game is just bananas compared to other open worlds.

I think most of it is just randomly generated though.
 

danmaku

Member
You can get it for free on Bethesda site. And yes, it's ridiculously massive. Lots of samey content, but still impressive considering the tech they were working with.
 

foxdvd

Member
It never felt as big as some modern games because there was a lot of it that felt like background scenery and not actual game..if that makes sense.
 
It was like No Man's Sky in many ways. So much of it is random/procedural/etc that it becomes very repetitive and uninspired unless you really get into it.

Like, the people who feel like modern Bethesda doesn't put enough unique stuff in each dungeon to make them seem varied and diverse, they ain't seen nothing.

That said, if you can get into it, it's like a giant fantasy world simulator on a scale that I don't think anyone else has ever done. It was mindblowing at the time, especially given how comparably small Arena was.

I'd be interested to see it replicated with more modern gameplay and graphics.
 

artsi

Member
Let me tell you about this game with 18 quadrillion planets to explore.

It's not really as cool as it sounds.
 
It was big, yes. But none of that mattered, because there were so many bugs you couldn't play for more than a few minutes before getting stuck in the world.
 

TissueBox

Member
It was nearly all procedurally generated, random landscape for the most part. But yeah, it's still one of the biggest, seamless game worlds, and makes Skyrim, Morrowind, and Oblivion combined look like a pair of acres.
 
It was like No Man's Sky in many ways. So much of it is random/procedural/etc that it becomes very repetitive and uninspired unless you really get into it.

Like, the people who feel like modern Bethesda doesn't put enough unique stuff in each dungeon to make them seem varied and diverse, they ain't seen nothing.

That said, if you can get into it, it's like a giant fantasy world simulator on a scale that I don't think anyone else has ever done. It was mindblowing at the time, especially given how comparably small Arena was.

I'd be interested to see it replicated with more modern gameplay and graphics.

Yep, 100% this. I remember having a lot of fun running into town and murdering a couple random people and running away from the guards until I was far enough away to be able to fast travel, then fast travelling to another part of the world where nobody knew where I was.

Oh, and going into shops and loitering until after they closed so I could steal everything easily and sell it back to the shopkeeper.

Needless to say, I never touched the main story.
 

Cropduster89

Neo Member
It's all randomly generated, and 99.9% of it is just flat land with a tree sprite of you're lucky. Exploring a mincraft world would be infinitely more interesting.

You basically pick a randomly generated town at the outset, that has all the services and guilds you want for your playthrough, and basically stay there, until you want to do the main quest which has to be accepted from the capitol. So really it doesn't matter how big the world is, as everywhere is pretty much the same.

It's still worth a go if you're somewhat of a masochist and have a high bullshit threshold. This is a game where you have to save at the beginning of every quest because there's a 50% chance that it'll bug out and become uncompletable (iirc you couldn't even complete the main quest on the disk version). The dungeons are some of the most hellish and labarynthine navigation challanges in any game ever, and your worst enemy is clipping through the wall into the abyss.

It's also chock full of pixel boobs.
 

spekkeh

Banned
It was great. It really was like you were dicking around in your own little unique kingdom, but it still featured on a map and was part of a bigger world.

But you didn't play it for thousands of hours because it was all randomly generated and after a while everything became really samey (also it was a much better investment to buy a single boat than multiple houses).

But yeah I stopped playing Morrowind some five hours in going booorring, smallll. I've since come around on bigger = better, but I still think Daggerfall should deserve all the accolades, not Morrowind.
 
Daggerfall is my favourite game of all time and it is true that the game world is estimated to be around the size of Great Britain. So to answer your question OP.

tl;dr
The best way to play Daggerfall is to download and install this .exe.

Long answer
There's actually multiple versions of Daggerall, some that use the midi sounds for its music and others that use higher quality .wav rips. The original, retail big box release, the version on GOG, Bethesda's own website and the copy with the Anthology Collection all use the midi version. Also, none of these versions include the essential fan patches that fix hundreds of bugs, add their own quests and include the Eyes of Argonia mod (which increases the view distance beyond the game's default max). As above, the best version to play is the fan-made executable as it includes all the fan-made patches and the installer lets you choose which to install, plus there are some translations in there.

There is even the DaggerXL (or Daggerfall Unity) which is a WIP full remake of the game being made in Unity by different people.
 

Onemic

Member
Daggerfall is my favourite game of all time and it is true that the game world is estimated to be around the size of Great Britain. So to answer your question OP.

tl;dr
The best way to play Daggerfall is to download and install this .exe.

Long answer
There's actually multiple versions of Daggerall, some that use the midi sounds for its music and others that use higher quality .wav rips. The original, retail big box release, the version on GOG, Bethesda's own website and the copy with the Anthology Collection all use the midi version. Also, none of these versions include the essential fan patches that fix hundreds of bugs, add their own quests and include the Eyes of Argonia mod (which increases the view distance beyond the game's default max). As above, the best version to play is the fan-made executable as it includes all the fan-made patches and the installer lets you choose which to install, plus there are some translations in there.

There is even the DaggerXL (or Daggerfall Unity) which is a WIP full remake of the game being made in Unity by different people.

Remaking Daggerfall with Unity? Good luck.
 

Tenrius

Member
It's not particularly impressive. When considering Daggerfall's scale, it's very important to realize a few things:

a) It was fast travel: the game. Getting from town to town on foot was basically impossible (and pointless), so you just picked towns and dungeons on the map and effectively teleported between them.

b) All the towns were the same: a bunch of randomized quests, some guilds, all randomized. Some quests would take you to particular corners of the map, but what of it? You just had to find it on the map and click.

If you want a truly impressive game from that era, take a look at Ultima VII. It did very similar things, but much more successfully (and the scale was greater if you consider the nature of Daggerfall).
 

Cropduster89

Neo Member
Remaking Daggerfall with Unity? Good luck.

Probably not too hard if they can nail the procgen stuff, there were only a few different building types and only one dungeon tileset, plus all the land was a mostly flat plane which you fast travelled over anyway. They wouldn't have to make that many actual assets if they're going for a 1 for 1 remake.
 
How did you ever find your way around?

You may be disappointed to hear this, but nobody walked anywhere in Daggerfall. You could if you wanted to, sure. But in practice the only way to accomplish anything was to fast travel. An interface came up showing the map, and you could zoom in or out to different territories, and filter points of interest shown on it, and when you wanted to go somewhere specific you actually typed it in by name and searched for it.

So a quest would tell you to go to Dougville and you'd search for Dougville and you'd see that it's over in this other province 100 miles away, and would take you 6 days to get there, and you'd say "ok take me there" and then you're there.

If you were riding a horse or on a ship, travel would be much faster, which could be important since many quests were time-limited. Like "please see that this letter is delivered within at least 2 months."

It wouldn't surprise me if people were still playing it and finding new things they've never seen. I appreciate that a lot of the world have been auto-generated, and probably miles of open fields, but even so that's really impressive to me.

The whole thing was generated. There is really nothing interesting to see out there. There are some very specific dungeons and cities handcrafted with interesting architecture, but you visit them all in the course of the main quest.

Many quests were totally generated as well, like most of the fighter/mage/thief guild quests. You could save and load and accept a new quest over and over to get different ones, and only accept the easy ones to advance in rank quickly. One mage's guild quest involves simply staying overnight in the guildhall to defend a caster from assassins that would come in the night, which was very easy to do.

Most quests were essentially "go to this procedurally generated dungeon and kill the lone werewolf there," or "collect the note somewhere inside," etc. Every dungeon had several pregenerated spots that could house any given quest item or creature. They were so vast that in the game's final patch the devs included cheats to instantly warp between these quest locations and the exit, because it was possible to get lost in a dungeon for an actual day.


Here's a map of a town, actually the titular Daggerfall but any given town looked like this, just usually smaller:

JTHRnyb.jpg


Colored locations are generally the only ones where interesting things could happen but IIRC random houses could host monsters to kill on behalf of the fighter's guild.

You can see at the top left of the map, this is the flagship city of the game and they didn't even bother to correct an error/quirk of generation that put two "the [whatever] muskrat" named buildings right by each other. Or the top center that put two "the beaver and [whatever]" near each other.
 
Top Bottom