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Anyone else notice a pattern here? (Nier: Automata, GR 2, and Horizon: Zero Dawn)

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My dude I watched all the cutscenes when that game came out as i was interested in the CG trailer. I didn't read a wiki. You realize I use the phrase "based on" very commonly right?

Maybe I'm misunderstanding you, but I don't think that watching the game's cutscenes on youtube gives you a very good foundation to base an opinion on. Not only are you removing those scenes from their context, but one of Kaine's biggest moments and an example of Yoko Taro's mad genius at work is pure "gameplay" of a sort.

well, while it helps i tend to not take things offgame as mandatory for understanding a character, but saying "i know them, i watched the cutscenes" means to me that you don't know what you're talking about
Personally, I consider those short stories to be just as much a part of D3 as the game. It's a multimedia experience. I understand that some people are very opposed to that opinion, though, and D3 did not exactly make its supplementary material readily available.
 

Platy

Member
Lol calm down, wait, what type of body hair are you thinking of? o_O

You realize women are not known to have hairy bodies right, its a play on the Rapunzel concept.

Armpits, legs ...The type of body hair women have and are not allowed to show by society even on hair shaving TV ads.

She choosing not to shave her body hair would go a LONG way to show that Bayonetta really is in control of her body...And it makes lots of sense if you have magical hair
 

LotusHD

Banned
A lot of progressives in particular (be it on GAF, Twitter, or anywhere else) have an issue with being overly smug in communicating their perspective. I think that comes from having confidence in its validity and it can and often is warranted, but I don't think this was the thread. You came into a perfectly civil discussion, said the wrong thing entirely, and then wouldn't take the L. You're arguing like the debate stage is Kotaku in Action, my dude.

And I'm guilty of doing this myself! Trying to be better.

Oh god this. When people feel they're absolutely right about something, they have such a strong tendency to be an ass about it. Not that hard to learn how to not come off as smug or arrogant, while still making your point. Because if you are in fact right, it won't change the fact that you're just exhausting to speak to. You just never want to be "that guy", yet we have several of them in this thread unfortunately.

Only the spy could be questionable. Maid and schoolgirl, although festishes, we're well done and respectful to the character, and suited for the part of the story when you get them.

Running around without pants is in another league IMO lol

This.

Man this thread backfired seriously didn't it? lol

I dunno, we got a Santa Kat pic. Could be worse.
 

Akainu

Member
I just recently realized both female androids had heels. Couldn't even switch that up? I thought the one with the lines had like that bare foot sock thing going on, like Envy from Fullmetal Alchemist.
 

Astral Dog

Member
Armpits, legs ...The type of body hair women have and are not allowed to show by society even on hair shaving TV ads.

She choosing not to shave her body hair would go a LONG way to show that Bayonetta really is in control of her body...And it makes lots of sense if you have magical hair
Ok, but honestly if you are going there complain why there are not more hairy dudes on games, besides sometimes a beard, no armpit, no hairy arms, no chest, nothing.

Even Naughty Dog is guilty of that when i see someone that clearly has bad hygiene, is old, hairy on face or whatever and they have perfectly shaven arms, chest and armpit its kind of hilarious :p

Witches in Bayonetta use hair as a conduit they could use water or fire supposedly but the magic goes well with their hair, and grows with magic.
if thats what you are looking for, a game explanation, otherwise Bayonetta is too "fashionable" and vain to use anything else.
 
Oh god this. When people feel they're absolutely right about something, they have such a strong tendency to be an ass about it. Not that hard to learn how to not come off as smug or arrogant, while still making your point. Because if you are in fact right, it won't change the fact that you're just exhausting to speak to. You just never want to be "that guy", yet we have several of them in this thread unfortunately.

As you put it in another thread:

Yea, it's not something that anyone would necessarily feel pressed to defend. At least, I wouldn't. But damn it all, I can't lie, I love her design; to me it feels a tad more stylish than something that's just blatantly sexualized as say, Cindy from FFXV. That being said, it's clearly a strong aspect of the design nonetheless (After all, everyone notices those thighs and panty shots), so I wouldn't blame anyone for not wanting to get the game (or having their interest in it greatly decrease) as a result of it.

In general, worth noting that folks will be more receptive to our arguments if we can be a bit more careful to avoid potentially inflammatory/insensitive generalizations (particularly those which appear to be nationalistic or self-congratulatory), and offer criticism in a more compassionate/constructive (as opposed to condemnatory) spirit.
 
This entire discussion about being steadfast in what you believe to be "right" reminds me of the hilarious God of War 4 fiasco where a GAF insider indicated the demo was "smoke and mirrors" and the game was basically "started from scratch again."

A bunch of posters fell over themselves trying to hold on to that narrative despite Shinobi coming in and saying otherwise (some even used Shinobis words as an affirmation of their existing stance despite it not making a whole lot of sense, and some such became even more convinced that it was thier view or the high way).

It took a Balrog tweet calling it all BS to shut it down for the most part.

It's not entirely related to this subject at hand but I feel sometimes people need to take a step back and look at the bigger picture. From an outsider perspective, when your posts start to feel like there's a bit of condescension in them, it's gone a bit too far. Especially in a medium where progress will largely happen incrementally rather then all at once.
 

Ran rp

Member
All still white though

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

kat and her people (?) are brown

a05mz0umos98.gif


27710708743_5543577b1ngjk4.jpg


29083073931_87dd7ffa4s7usv.jpg
 

Morrigan Stark

Arrogant Smirk
why did you put females in quotations? Don't be bitter that there are women aren't arguing the same point's as you were, let alone a cosplayer. GAF ain't a hivemind.
I didn't put quotations because I'm bitter, I put quotations because referring to women as "females" (as a noun, not as an adjective such as "female posters" or "female players") is considered pretty rude.

But don't let that stop you from making more absurd assumptions. It seems you make an ass of yourself with every post, so keep going! :p

Oh god this. When people feel they're absolutely right about something, they have such a strong tendency to be an ass about it. Not that hard to learn how to not come off as smug or arrogant, while still making your point.
I fail to see how it's just "one side" that's being smug/an ass/condescending/etc. How about all the people going "lol are you high it's just a midriff stop <insert hyperbole about exaggerated reaction here>", "you are such a puritanical prude", "you are slut-shaming women in real life!" and so on. I can't help but notice very few people protesting against this kind of idiotic and shitty posting; instead the tone-policing is only against the feminists. Hmmmm
 
In general, worth noting that folks will be more receptive to our arguments if we can be a bit more careful to avoid potentially inflammatory/insensitive generalizations (particularly those which appear to be nationalistic or self-congratulatory), and offer criticism in a more compassionate/constructive (as opposed to condemnatory) spirit.

I can't help but notice very few people protesting against this kind of idiotic and shitty posting; instead the tone-policing is only against the feminists. Hmmmm

I would just note that I personally try as much as possible not to use condemnatory language (of which tone-policing is clearly a subset), and would instead simply recommend an alternative approach, based on the increased likelihood of persuading others.
 

LotusHD

Banned
I fail to see how it's just "one side" that's being smug/an ass/condescending/etc. How about all the people going "lol are you high it's just a midriff stop <insert hyperbole about exaggerated reaction here>", "you are such a puritanical prude", "you are slut-shaming women in real life!" and so on.

I mean, I never said anything about "one side" though? It's a long ass thread, I'm aware that by this point, "both sides" of this debate or w/e you'd call it are obviously guilty to some extent of this. When I quoted him, I was just agreeing and speaking generally about how people who feel they're correct have a tendency to get dismissive (to put it lightly) in both real life and various mediums like the aformentioned Twitter. At the time I was not specifically referring solely just this thread (But yes, it was applicable here), otherwise I would've specifically called someone out. Something of which I have no intention of doing though, because frankly that won't result in anything productive. But you know, since you're quoting me and all, I guess you think what I said applies to you? Which I suppose says it all...

I can't help but notice very few people protesting against this kind of idiotic and shitty posting; instead the tone-policing is only against the feminists. Hmmmm

And lol at you now trying to frame it as feminists vs. everyone else, which creates the weird implication that none of us are feminists just because people disagree with you concerning several things, or haven't been fond of your tone/attitude. Let's not do that. -_-

Anyhow, continue to hash it out with whomever. I don't particularly have much more to say concerning these 3 protagonists, but I can't wait to play as 2 of them lol
 
Cripes. Look, you can address perceptibly racist comments WITHOUT bringing them up on entirely unrelated arguments, alright?

So you're saying I should address and correct racist comments away from where they occur rather than where they occur.

There's an interesting conversation to be had

Not interesting enough for racism to color it or be legitimized.

focusing on extremely minor aspects of the argument instead of the bigger picture.

Racism is not, can not, should not and will not be part of the conversation so long as non-racists are part of the conversation. That is big picture.

I assumed that he assumed I was white hence the emphasis on that many people in the east are non-white. And that I found issue in that when again, that was not the intent behind the post.

...whatever you now say you were responding to, you responded by citing race as something that does or does not qualify/exempt you to take issue with a national, ethnic and cultural collective on the grounds that they don't use their brains unlike the glorious ubermen in the superior civilization in which you reside. The racist content of that statement coalesces perfectly with the racism you are still attempting to defend, rationalize and justify whilst handwaving away people who criticize you for racism as people who are doing so for reasons other than the fact that racism is racist.

Evidently a lot of people ITT don't like the critiquing of some of these character designs to the point that they find me racist against Japanese designs

Most people who have (somehow missing the shit ton of posts of me praising the character design of Souls games because of how much they fit the setting and how Miyazaki's thought process is really great because of how much thought goes into EVERY aspect of his team's designs).

So your nationalist, xenophobic racism is so deeply ingrained that even though you find some of what non-westerners produce to be agreeable, you still feel like this when pushed:

A large collective do especially in the west where "just make something cool" doesn't really fly since we like to use our brains when it comes to designing characters.
 
I'm not racist, I'm just saying Japanese designers are sexist and don't use their brains

Also I'm not white and have a Japanese friend

I went down the DSP Crossing Eden/Eden's Cross rabbit hole a bit and oh boy. (even more) impossible to take him seriously now
 

BigEmil

Junior Member
I'm not racist, I'm just saying Japanese designers are sexist and don't use their brains

Also I'm not white and have a Japanese friend

I went down the DSP Crossing Eden/Eden's Cross rabbit hole a bit and oh boy.
I just looked into that too and it seems Crossing Eden is not black as he claims to be he is white? With photo proof too yikes, hard to believe what he says now.
 

RainForce

Banned
Curious about how often those debates are with women who directly critique them.

Relatively often.

First of all there's nothing inherently wrong with being abrasive.

When you're alienating people on your side? There absolutely is.

In fact between me making that post yesterday and now, I've gotten 12 PMs from people thanking me for that post, some claiming they were "too afraid" to say anything in fear of getting banned. Some of those PMs acknowledged that sometimes you make good arguments, but they just don't want to be on your side when you argue the way you do.

Second of all I do not use my race as a shield in anyway shape or form wtf?

You played the "I'm black" card in this very thread. And don't get me wrong, I've played the "I'm a minority, I'm Jewish" card too, but only to give context to my opinion and not elevate it above anyone else's.

And yes in a lot of ways being informed due to actually working and understanding the workflow and intent behind a lot of design decisions absolutely helps in discussions.

But it doesn't make you an authority on it, especially when you're talking about the workflow and intent in other regions that you're completely ignorant to beyond cherry-picked articles that fit your narrative while ignoring the ones that don't.

Many times people do express sexist views while defending character designs like Cindy, Kat's Alts, Quiet, etc.

Which in turn goes back to the point that you're attacking someone's person rather than their argument. You don't just do it with gaming, you do it with politics and other stuff here.

95% of the time I've referenced the information that input in a post. Half the time I put said information in that post via a link.

95% is a gross exaggeration, and on the rare occasions you do, you dismiss all links with counter-claims as either biased or ignore it outright despite them often coming from unbiased sources.

Flowers of evil is not the only anime I've at any point said is worth my time but ok.

Okay, I guess things have changed since this post earlier in the year (and the rest of that thread is similarly filled with misinformation about anime and the industry from you)? And in another thread from earlier in the year, there's this post asserting how much more "mature" western cartoons are than anime while later in the thread confirming that you don't even watch anime. You also go on to say there's no point to a wide range of genres in animation because it "doesn't suit the medium", an absolutely bizarre opinion coming from an animator.

People trying to tel me that I'm not black is definitely not something I expects to happen today.

Huh? Where in my post did I insinuate that you weren't black?

Whenever someone genuinely proves me wrong I will apologize. You seem to be so interested in me that I'm surprised that you've missed that. And no I didn't move the goalpost, the workplace not being ideal is part of the same subject matter.

How is that not moving goalposts when the original point was about less women in the industry, which is a false fact?

I didn't realize that she was a famous female cosplayer but that doesn't mean that her opinion on character design flies by default. Especially when it gets to the point that there's nothing wrong with objectification in media. How many times do I have to stress the difference between a character designed for a perceived male audience and a woman wearing whatever she wants in real life being two VERY different things.

You're placing more importance on a fictional character's lack of agency due to who she was designed by than an actual living breathing human's.

It seems that you'd rather I critique but "do it less loudly" so to speak. In which case. I'm just gonna flat out tell you no. Trolling, would be saying something like Japan hates women. Or never makes good female designs.

Do it as loud as you want, but please know what you're talking about first.

And it's not like you're any stranger to genuine trolling when there's a ludicrous amount of documentation out there of you saying stuff along the lines of "you like anime, your opinion is worthless" whenever someone disagreed with you. But maybe you're a changed man now.
 

Budi

Member
So your nationalist, xenophobic racism is so deeply ingrained that even though you find some of what non-westerners produce to be agreeable, you still feel like this when pushed:

I don't think what they said was "japanese are less intelligent, that's why their designs aren't always logical". Rather than they choose not to think about the design logically.

And it's not exactly a secret that treatment and social status of women changes a lot based on a culture. If someone would criticize a culture to be a sexist where women can't drive a car for example. That wouldn't be racist.

Edit: And I would think Crossing Eden would already be banned if they spread hateful and racist message around Neogaf. So clearly what they said isn't an issue to the mods, who keep this place quite clean of that kinda filth. I'm sure you brought their message to mods attention?
 

Karkador

Banned
I don't understand why people upset with Crossing Eden's rhetoric keep poking at them for more. Like you're really trying to provoke more of the issue and shit up the forum by turning this thread into a witch hunt than take it to PM or something.
 
I don't understand why people upset with Crossing Eden's rhetoric keep poking at them for more. Like you're really trying to provoke more of the issue and shit up the forum by turning this thread into a witch hunt than take it to PM or something.

This is thread is complete shit now. There is no salvaging it.
 
...[Japanese developers in general] choose not to think about the design logically...

I do think that even this is a type generalization that one should think very carefully about, simply because it is typically not very helpful in these contexts. As I put it earlier in the thread:

I agree entirely, and I'm really glad you took the time to explain this point in detail. Also, I'll note that I initially brought this issue up in a larger post that was meant to counteract a simplistic East vs. West dichotomy that had been developing in a previous thread, so your willingness to extend/amplify the critique of Sony Santa Monica in this instance is actually evidence of your ability/willingness to look beyond that simplistic (and potentially inflammatory) East vs. West dichotomy, and to critique each instance of questionable characterization on an individual basis...

In general, worth noting that folks will be more receptive to our arguments if we can be a bit more careful to avoid potentially inflammatory/insensitive generalizations (particularly those which appear to be nationalistic or self-congratulatory), and offer criticism in a more compassionate/constructive (as opposed to condemnatory) spirit.
 

Budi

Member
I do think that even this is a type generalization that one should think very carefully about, simply because it is typically not very helpful in these contexts. As I put it earlier in the thread:

Well sure, it could be misinterpreted. Which happened in this thread, maybe on purpose. The same poster has given positive design examples from japanese developers, so clearly Crossing Eden doesn't think they all choose not to "use their brains" or just make "sexist" designs. The claim wasn't entirely accurate (not all western designs follow logic either), but it's dishonest to say it was racist. Just like some people are dishonest parading some of these designs as a great representation to women gamers. We just had Emily in Dishonored and Clementine in Walking Dead, strong female leads also but without the sexualization. And I honestly think that there is room for both, but what usually has been lacking is the non sexualized female characters.
 

nynt9

Member
All still white though

¯\_(&#12484;)_/¯

Kat is brown skinned.

With Nier Automata, it's hard to say about Yorha. Japanese artists tend to self-depict in the way we perceive as white, but they're actually depicting Japanese people because they depict white people entirely differently. We don't know enough about Yorha, who is an android btw, to call her race.

While Aloy from Horizon has white skin, her features do not match any particular real world ethnicity. My skin is white, but I'm middle eastern, so skin color and ethnicity don't necessarily always correlate.

That being said, I think we can appreciate that we have these highly visible games coming with female protagonists, and that's important. No need to trash this victory because they're white. "all still white though, shrug" isn't really productive. I'd go with "it's really good that Sony and Square/Platinum are taking chances with female protagonists. Hopefully with time we get more diverse representation of women as well".
 

Karkador

Banned
That being said, I think we can appreciate that we have these highly visible games coming with female protagonists, and that's important. No need to trash this victory because they're white. "all still white though, shrug" isn't really productive. I'd go with "it's really good that Sony and Square/Platinum are taking chances with female protagonists. Hopefully with time we get more diverse representation of women as well".

But there's a caveat to the "bravery", and that's what the fan service and sexy costumes are about. It's like saying, "alright, you can have this job, miss, but the boss expects certain favors".
 
I don't think what they said was "japanese are less intelligent, that's why their designs aren't always logical". Rather than they choose not to think about the design logically.

That's a generality predicated upon race and nationality put forth for the purposes of disparaging a group as creatively deficient, culturally primitive etc per their terms. It also contradicts where Crossing Eden cites non-western designs they enjoy, which should negate the entire premise for attacking groups, ethnicity, nations etc with critical generalization... for someone that isn't racist.

And it's not exactly a secret that treatment and social status of women changes a lot based on a culture. If someone would criticize a culture to be a sexist where women can't drive a car for example. That wouldn't be racist.

Please refer to a previous post ITT where asserting the idea that Japan is not compatible with western civilization evokes the anti-middle eastern rhetoric you're flirting with and trying to verge in to. If this is a war on Japan for these reasons, it only makes it sound less and less like a slip of the tongue and more like a set of deeply held conviction to crusade against the chosen subject of offense.

I don't understand why people upset with Crossing Eden's rhetoric keep poking at them for more. Like you're really trying to provoke more of the issue and shit up the forum by turning this thread into a witch hunt than take it to PM or something.

I'm objecting to it in order to resist it and correct it, but it keeps being rationalized, abided and enabled by the poster and their supporters while those who criticize it are being handwaved away and persistently met with attempts by people such as yourself to be silenced by alluding to being banned for thread shitting as a means of intimidation... but of course making racist statements and refusing to be accountable for them doesn't shit up threads.
 
I only came here for Nier. What's the buzz on GR2? It looks like a Tales game.

Well sure, it could be misinterpreted. Which happened in this thread, maybe on purpose. The same poster has given positive design examples from japanese developers, so clearly Crossing Eden doesn't think they all choose not to "use their brains" or just make "sexist" designs. The claim wasn't entirely accurate (not all western designs follow logic either), but it's dishonest to say it was racist. Just like some people are dishonest parading some of these designs as a great representation to women gamers. We just had Emily in Dishonored and Clementine in Walking Dead, strong female leads also but without the sexualization. And I honestly think that there is room for both, but what usually has been lacking is the non sexualized female characters.

Did someone say this? I've only seen people say that the sexualization of these characters isn't inherently a bad thing, which you seem to agree with, and that they are (or are likely to be) good characters even if that sexualization is undesirable.

Mistaken, sure, but I don't think people are being dishonest in interpreting Crossing Eden's post as racist. If it wasn't for Eden's posting history, I would have probably taken "we like to use our brains when it comes to designing characters." that way too. It's an insulting, inflammatory blanket statement based on nationality.
 

Karkador

Banned
I'm objecting to it in order to resist it and correct it, but it keeps being rationalized, abided and enabled by the poster and their supporters while those who criticize it are being handwaved away and persistently met with attempts by people such as yourself to be silenced by alluding to being banned for thread shitting as a means of intimidation... but of course making racist statements and refusing to be accountable for them doesn't shit up threads.

You've made your point and the posts in this thread will stay to show that. Nobody is silencing you. This is a thread about a topic I'd like to discuss, and the topic is not Crossing Eden. If we're lucky, we can move on and actually discuss the topic without it getting closed because of people's lack of civility.

It would be one thing if you were debating in abstract terms, but you're dragging a specific user through the mud like the rest of us are supposed to take a lesson away from this. I don't really care to defend Crossing Eden, but you're being no better at this than the person you're basically harassing at this point.
 

LotusHD

Banned
Well sure, it could be misinterpreted. Which happened in this thread, maybe on purpose. The same poster has given positive design examples from japanese developers, so clearly Crossing Eden doesn't think they all choose not to "use their brains" or just make "sexist" designs. The claim wasn't entirely accurate (not all western designs follow logic either), but it's dishonest to say it was racist. Just like some people are dishonest parading some of these designs as a great representation to women gamers. We just had Emily in Dishonored and Clementine in Walking Dead, strong female leads also but without the sexualization. And I honestly think that there is room for both, but what usually has been lacking is the non sexualized female characters.

What were some of the designs people were being dishonest about?

I only came here for Nier. What's the buzz on GR2? It looks like a Tales game.

Quick, someone show him that superman kat gif!

I got it!

2Wh5y4A.jpg
 

Budi

Member
That's a generality predicated upon race and nationality put forth for the purposes of disparaging a group as creatively deficient, culturally primitive etc per their terms. It also contradicts where Crossing Eden cites non-western designs they enjoy, which should negate the entire premise for attacking groups, ethnicity, nations etc with critical generalization... for someone that isn't racist.

Fair enough, I'm not a fan of the argument they made. And I was guilty of generalizing myself on this same thread, not based on nationality though. I was just bothered by the dogpiling since I'm very aware of the posters views based on other threads. And to me they've come off as anything but racist. Exactly the opposite actually, very vocal about better minority representation in games. Sometimes to a point that can frustrate people.

Did someone say this? I've only seen people say that the sexualization of these characters isn't inherently a bad thing, which you seem to agree with, and that they are (or are likely to be) good characters even if that sexualization is undesirable.

Not sure if on those words I used. But is the premise of this thread to celebrate characters that women gamers can feel comfortable and represented with or cool female characters that appeal to men? As was said on the first page, it's not that uncommon to get playable females in japanese games. The problem if we can call it that, is that they are designed mostly with male gaze in mind. Western games have had it so that they don't have females at all. But in recent years, they have done better on the quantity but also quality. While japanese games haven't progressed as much.
 

LotusHD

Banned
Goddamn. That looks ridiculously cool.

Is the original good? Should I play that first?

The original is a Vita port, albeit a very good one, so it won't be as vibrant color-wise, but in exchange you get 60 FPS. The protagonist and by extension the game itself is charming as fuck, flying alone is as cool as it looks. And it's pretty cheap too.

But yea, it's a really neat game, just one of those games that just boast that unique gameplay that you just have to try out for yourself.
 
You've made your point and the posts in this thread will stay to show that. Nobody is silencing you.

Just attempting to by trying to frame the confrontation of racism and refusing to let flourish persistent racism presented in defense of it as a violation of TOS... then when that fails, frame it as harassment.

This is a thread about a topic I'd like to discuss

So did the people who came in the thread not expecting to find racism and see it rationalized as a necessary part of the conversation.

the topic is not Crossing Eden.

Yet here you are with your second post in a row dedicated to it. It's almost as if being racist either informs the conversation if ignored or derails the conversation if confronted.

If we're lucky, we can move on and actually discuss the topic without it getting closed because of people's lack of civility.

Lack of civility such as racism? Would the luck you're referring to manifest as you getting to call this harassment in order to silence the confrontation of racism and not be challenged on that either?

It would be one thing if you were debating in abstract terms

The racism presented is not abstract. It is palpable, comprehensible and vividly impressionist. What kind of passive aggressive winks, nods and wordplay are you looking for as a means to identify, label, confront, correct and discourage racism? Poetry? Song? Dance?

you're dragging a specific user through the mud like the rest of us are supposed to take a lesson away from this

Why would you take a lesson from it? Is speaking in disparaging generalities about other races, nationalities, cultures etc something you're want to do? Is it necessary for this conversation to be had?

Also keep in mind that you're talking about the person who still hasn't copped to it, has tried to bury it by attempting to drag their detractors (with help from you) and is so emboldened by lack of consequence that they don't even feel enough shame to ditch the thread and try being not racist next time.
 

LotusHD

Banned
Not sure if on those words I used. But is the premise of this thread to celebrate characters that women gamers can feel comfortable and represented with or cool female characters that appeal to men? As was said on the first page, it's not that uncommon to get playable females in japanese games. The problem if we can call it that, is that they are designed mostly with male gaze in mind.

To me, the OP was just simply glad with the fact that there are more games out there with female leads. I saw the post as "Yo, these cool-looking games y'all are interested in? The protagonists all happen to be female, isn't that neat?"

And yea, it is neat. Don't really think it goes any deeper than that, but only the OP can say for sure.

Now, as to whether or not girls and women overall would actually like and/or appreciate said characters/designs, who can really know? All I can say is that no one girl is a monolith. There are girls that'll love these designs for various reasons, those that like it but still have concerns, or maybe they just flat-out loathe it. At the very least, developers moving forward should obviously keep creating them, while keeping in mind to not have it ostensibly appeal primarily to guys.

As a guy, I'm of course incapable of having that perspective myself, so all I can try to do is just be silent (As in, not getting overly defensive over a design I like for one thing) and see what girls/women have to say concerning these 3 designs, and take that into account moving forward.
 
I was going to buy a PS4 literally just for Nier, so thank you all for giving me two more games to look forward to and making me feel less like I'm setting a pile of money on fire :lol

Not sure if on those words I used. But is the premise of this thread to celebrate characters that women gamers can feel comfortable and represented with or cool female characters that appeal to men? As was said on the first page, it's not that uncommon to get playable females in japanese games. The problem if we can call it that, is that they are designed mostly with male gaze in mind.

The premise, as I understand it, is to celebrate a wave of compelling female protagonists, which there are simply not enough of.
 

Karkador

Banned
Just attempting to by trying to frame the confrontation of racism and refusing to let flourish persistent racism presented in defense of it as a violation of TOS... then when that fails, frame it as harassment.

I dunno, you seem defensive for somebody claiming to be doing nothing wrong.


The racism presented is not abstract. It is palpable, comprehensible and vividly impressionist. What kind of passive aggressive winks, nods and wordplay are you looking for as a means to identify, label, confront, correct and discourage racism? Poetry? Song? Dance?


'Impressionist' is not the opposite of 'abstract'. I'm starting to think you're just blathering on.
 
I was going to buy a PS4 literally just for Nier, so thank you all for giving me two more games to look forward to and making me feel less like I'm setting a pile of money on fire :lol
Dude do yourself a favour and get resogun, ratchet and until dawn when you get your ps4. Until dawn if you're a fan of horror games and maybe bloodborne too if you like souls games
 
Dude do yourself a favour and get resogun, ratchet and until dawn when you get your ps4. Until dawn if you're a fan of horror games and maybe bloodborne too if you like souls games

Resogun looks beautiful, but I'm not big on shmups, I already watched someone stream Until Dawn, and as much as I loved the old Ratchet games. I'm not really interested anymore.

Bloodborne I played through with some friends on one of their PS4s. Godlike game, even though it was kind of a clown fiesta passing the controller around after each death.
 
I dunno, you seem defensive for somebody claiming to be doing nothing wrong.

I'm communicating as I have from the moment I began directly confronting and arguing down the racist statements and logic you're defending. Exactingly, thoroughly and stridently. I am certainly defending against your attempt to silence my confrontation of racism, in order to benefit the racist and make things comfortable for them, by trying to frame this discomfort as the pertinent problem. You seem defensive by defending it. By your very own logic that defensiveness must make you culpable, guilty and accountable.
 

Inuhanyou

Believes Dragon Quest is a franchise managed by Sony
Heeey guys, what's going on in this threa-

...uh...

huh.

Its at times like these that i wonder how such a fairly innocuous thread topic can get derailed so completely. Like i skipped straight from page 1 to the most recent one and its dumpster fire.

There should logically be no issues with the sentiment that Nier, Grav Rush and Horizon have pretty compelling female leads no?
 
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