Chittagong
Gold Member
:lol gaf even has a CIA Defense Force. Love it
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WikiLeaks founder falsely accused of rape (Tin Foil Hat Thread)
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fortified_concept
Banned
Amir0x said:
CIA "banned" it because it was a PR nightmare and one of Obama's most talked about issues. That doesn't mean that CIA changes its tactics every time there's a new administration (it just adjusts them) and that certainly doesn't mean that prisoners can't be moved to countries that allow torture where CIA only has a "consulting" role like it's happening for decades.
Chittagong
Gold Member
Straight talk, lol. If things turn out like the last page indicates (disappointed Christian nutties taking personal revenge), I'mhappy to admit I was wrong about CIA in this case. Until the next scandal that is!
Meus Renaissance
Member
Amir0x said:
So, if in 30 years time you read a book about CIA activities during this decade, you wouldn't be surprised at all if they had some kind of role in incidents like this with WikiLeaks?
They didn't. You usually don't announce to the world that you intend to arrest someone, for reasons that should be obvious. The information leaked, and I don't think we yet know how, and the prosecutor confirmed it when the Swedish tabloid Expressen called her about it.Meus Renaissance said:
empty vessel
Member
Amir0x said:
This is ridiculous, unsupported tripe that no historian or anybody remotely familiar with the actual record of covert government activities would take seriously for a second. All government agencies--not just intelligence and military agencies--have a hierarchical professional (i.e., non-political, in the electoral sense) establishment that new administrations must contend with. That's the great irony of the executive: although the president is the sole executive, his actual influence over the executive branch is somewhat limited due to the resistance he might get from the cultures and establishments of various agencies that pursue their own agendas. Indeed, a president's appointments of heads of agencies even have to be made with a conscious eye towards the establishment views of agencies so as to avoid internal revolt and/or discord amongst career employees.
And I'm still not sure what your fixation on the CIA is. If there were US involvement, it was likely by the Pentagon.
Amir0x said:
You make conclusory allegation after conclusory allegation with nary an ounce of factual support (or even reasoned argument) for anything you've said in every single post you've made in this thread. By all means, feel free to demonstrate what I've said here that has "frequently been factually incorrect." I genuinely welcome it.
Amir0x said:
My position is not that it is unfair. My position is that it is irrational. It is also that equating speculation of US involvement to birtherism, as you did, is irresponsible and rooted in nothing more than knee-jerk nationalism. My argument has been made; if it is anywhere unsound, I expect that it can be shown. Your empty rhetoric does not accomplish that.
Amir0x said:
I have put forward evidence that shows why it is irrational to dismiss US involvement. Your response does not dispute that evidence, but is based only on the unsupported supposition that "it would have been done with more grace." That is the sum total of your argument, as far as I can tell, and it unfortunately belies your claim to be familiar with the historical documentary record of counterintelligence activities, which is full of bad ideas executed poorly that do not pan out. Of course, this one did pan out as a smear campaign (even if it is not that), so your argument is not even internally sound. This is exactly what smear campaigns look like: charges are leveled and then withdrawn, and the bad aura sticks.
(Incidentally, you have contradicted yourself. You say here that you are not asserting that US counterintelligence activities "don't still perform dirty, nasty covert operations" but earlier in this very post you were arguing--without any factual support--that those are "outdated stories about how the CIA was during the fucking Cold War" and that "the CIA operates differently based on the threat, the time period and the people in charge," implying they do not still perform dirty, nasty covert operations. But if you are not disputing that American intelligence agencies, even under Obama, do still conduct dirty, nasty covert operations, why are you spending so much time insisting that things have changed from the bad old days?)
fortified_concept
Banned
Amir0x said:
Well, change that brings the same results isn't real change to me. If you think CIA actually stopped torture then there's something to talk about but I don't think you're that naive. They just went back to what they've been doing for decades, and afaik extraordinary rendition to third world counties continues as usual.
Leviathan1
Banned
empty vessel said:
You're clever and you write well. You're wasting your talents on this forum. Ever thought of starting a blog. Writing a book? This isn't sarcastic. I'm serious.
pmj said:
Normally you interview people before you arrest them. When Christian Pettersson, prime suspect in the Olof Palme murders was arrested, they sent him a letter asking him to come down the station for an interview. And after that interview they arrested him.
And if you do issue a warrant for an arrest on someone, you do normally not confirm it to the press when you know it's news all over the world. For exactly the reasons you mention above.
Amir0x said:
Has anyone in the past proven the existanse of alien cover ups or flying spaghetti monster? If not, you should be able to figure out the weak link in your likening.
This case is more like you saying "ok so we know for a fact that a flying spaghetti monster visited earth 2000 years ago, but i don't believe they do it today! You people are crazy for thinking that! What makes you think there are flying spaghetti monsters? There is no evidence, and also Obama is president!"
If you do not think the CIA (or whatever) are capable or willing to perform operations like this today i'm pretty sure that you are one of the few on this forum who trust them that much. Quite the opposite ratio of believer to non believer that normal conspiracy theories have. Why? Because they have been caught doing sloppy jobs of an even more dubious nature on several occasions before! They do not just get a clean slate every time a new president is elected, that's... crazy talk.
When it comes to rape in Sweden the police often arrests you on the order of the prosecutor. This often happens very easily and without any real interrogation, it happened this time too, just that the man was very famous, that is what saved his ass.
It seems like the prosecutor did it on a friday together with the girls so that no chief prosecutor could look on the case before the order went out. Also the girls seems to waited till the first day that this particular (now reported) prosecutor. So it is indeed a conspiracy but from a gang of feminist rather than CIA.
Also when the prosecutor says she released Julian because of more information it is wrong! What happened was that the prosecutor bosses saw the attention this case got and realized "We are fucked if we do not let go of this now" because there were no real proof! So basically, because Julian was famous everybody was on this case. Normally you will stay locked inside. Also this is why one have heard so many voices questioning Sweden's justice system...
Also the prosecutor said that Julian was "suspected on high probability" basically you should only use that sentence when it really is the case! Because there are many levels you can suspect someone! Here the prosecutor suspected him on high probability with no interviews, no information nothing! It really is a huge scandal,
It seems like the prosecutor did it on a friday together with the girls so that no chief prosecutor could look on the case before the order went out. Also the girls seems to waited till the first day that this particular (now reported) prosecutor. So it is indeed a conspiracy but from a gang of feminist rather than CIA.
Also when the prosecutor says she released Julian because of more information it is wrong! What happened was that the prosecutor bosses saw the attention this case got and realized "We are fucked if we do not let go of this now" because there were no real proof! So basically, because Julian was famous everybody was on this case. Normally you will stay locked inside. Also this is why one have heard so many voices questioning Sweden's justice system...
Also the prosecutor said that Julian was "suspected on high probability" basically you should only use that sentence when it really is the case! Because there are many levels you can suspect someone! Here the prosecutor suspected him on high probability with no interviews, no information nothing! It really is a huge scandal,
Kite said:
I dont know what molestation can mean legally, but no. The one charge that remains is either harassment or sexual harassment, wich one we don't know for sure yet. But those were for the older woman. The woman who initally caused the rape charge is no longer involved in any accusation towards JA.
jorma said:
Ok so the prosecutors office released a statement - the charge that remains is "harassment", a crime with no sexual connotations. The prosecutor has not yet decided what to do with that charge. She has also not decided what to do with the original rape charge, if it is to be dismissed altogether or if there will be a lesser charge instead.
They also claim that they had more information at the time the rape charges was withdrawn. It's very carefully worded though, they don't claim that this supposedly new information is what actually made them reconsider. I'm guessing its no more complicated than the prosecutors boss realising it would never hold up under public scrutiny and so withdrew the charges.
TheRagnCajun
Member
CIA did it. I know.
fortified_concept
Banned
DennisK4 said:
It's funny how you were whining about us jumping to conclusions without direct evidence but you were the first to make assumptions because a third person said that Swedish forums said that it was a Christian feminist. Oh the irony... The sweet colossal irony...
fortified_concept
Banned
DennisK4 said:
...
That was quite pathetic. Unlike you, I'm not whining I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy.
There was no hypocrisy you ignorant fool. The post you referred to was my attempt at illustrating the process of jumping to conclusions. I see now that I overestimated your intelligence.fortified_concept said:
Its called satire - you didn't comphrehend that, hence the *whoosh*
As for whining - thats is all you ever do.
TheRagnCajun
Member
DennisK4 said:
I'd say your debate has devolved into "'lolumad?'; lolnoumad!'"
Dude Abides
Banned
DennisK4 said:
Least convincing walkback ever.
CrocMother
Banned
DennisK4 said:
........really?
You think emptyvessel and others like myself are conspiracy theorists? What thread are you in?
Dude Abides
Banned
DennisK4 said:
You made a dumb argument, the stupidity of which was pointed out, and now you're walking it back and pretending you were making a rhetorical point, but alas, nobody is persuaded, so now you are behaving like a child whose parents took away his favorite toy.
Is it your common practice to lash out and use words like "butthurt" and "smackdown" when people point out that you've said something stupid? If so I suggest watching less WWE.
Dude Abides
Banned
DennisK4 said:
Don't flatter yourself, my boy. You've said many stupid things. If I had an agenda of pointing out each one of them I'd have time for little else.
The identity of one of the girls has been confirmed by her employer. She is in charge of press relations for a (mostly irrelevant) christian subgroup to the social democrats - this is the older of the girls who filed charges, not the rape girl but the girl who still has an active charge of "harassment" in the works:
And yes, she is a radical feminist. Her blog (insta-dissected by flashback, the swedish 4chan, but now closed to the public) contained some fairly questionable stuff in regards to how she relates to men. All in Swedish though, and i can't be arsed to translate it atm.
would!
And yes, she is a radical feminist. Her blog (insta-dissected by flashback, the swedish 4chan, but now closed to the public) contained some fairly questionable stuff in regards to how she relates to men. All in Swedish though, and i can't be arsed to translate it atm.
fortified_concept
Banned
DennisK4 said:
Suuuuuuuuuuuuure that's why you posted that. Nice backpedaling though, I got to give you that, you didn't convince anyone but it's the effort that counts.
Must be hard for you to wear two tin foil hats at the same time.fortified_concept said:
I will report back to the CIA that I was only moderately successful in running interference. fortified_concept was just too devoted to the cause for me to manipulate him away from the Path of Truth, Justice and Socialism.
Meus Renaissance
Member
jorma said:The identity of one of the girls has been confirmed by her employer. She is in charge of press relations for a (mostly irrelevant) christian subgroup to the social democrats - this is the older of the girls who filed charges, not the rape girl but the girl who still has an active charge of "harassment" in the works:
would!
And yes, she is a radical feminist. Her blog (insta-dissected by flashback, the swedish 4chan, but now closed to the public) contained some fairly questionable stuff in regards to how she relates to men. All in Swedish though, and i can't be arsed to translate it atm.
Paradox?
Sealda said:
What does AA mean?
fortified_concept
Banned
Meus Renaissance said:
Either she's a lunatic or an opportunist. I mean, for god's sake, who the fuck is a christian feminist? These are contradictory terms.
fortified_concept
Banned
DennisK4 said:
I'll put my ignore hat and stop caring about your trolling. Go whine to someone else.
afternoon delight
Member
I am... so surprised... by this.... Like most complete fuck ups, I seriously doubt the entire truth will ever be known, but I also doubt the "concrete details" like the women and the police will be punished and/or touched by the law. They just don't ever get to lose on the big-scale.
Meus Renaissance said:
Only if being a gay christian is a paradox. But it's unusual yeah. Just as being a religious social democrat is fairly unusual. But then again being religious is pretty unusual in itself
She wouldnt be a fundie in her christian faith though, she seems to reserve that for her feminism.
And the burqa thing was taken out of context. Not that what she wrote was any better with context.
AA is her initials.
Meus Renaissance
Member
Anyway, I came across a few posts today referring to Assange as a rapist (and my lover, in response to my criticism to the bias article) - posts on articles discussing the dropped allegations. What does that tell you?
Was talking more about her being a radical feminist and, presumably, Christian.
jorma said:
Was talking more about her being a radical feminist and, presumably, Christian.
DennisK4 said:
Late 19th Century Insults are still insults. Let's keep the commentary firmly aimed at the absurdity of the tin foil hat crew, without insults.
jorma said:The identity of one of the girls has been confirmed by her employer. She is in charge of press relations for a (mostly irrelevant) christian subgroup to the social democrats - this is the older of the girls who filed charges, not the rape girl but the girl who still has an active charge of "harassment" in the works:
would!
And yes, she is a radical feminist. Her blog (insta-dissected by flashback, the swedish 4chan, but now closed to the public) contained some fairly questionable stuff in regards to how she relates to men. All in Swedish though, and i can't be arsed to translate it atm.
:lol
Oh so sweet. If you do a check you find out she was working for the Alpha Centurai aliens by proxy of the Galactic Intelligence Federation who owed the CIA a favor after the events of Roswell, New Mexico.
empty vessel
Member
Amir0x said:
I can continue to repeat it and you can continue to make ineffectual, superficial replies based upon disingenuous mischaracterizations of other people's positions. You took the irrational position, and, if that weren't enough, you relish in it along with one of the most simpleminded, right-wing posters on GAF. You can delight in that all you want, but with each post in this thread you lose more credibility amongst sensible people.
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