It's sexist and ignorant to say most men are attracted to tits and/or ass and that it's probably not going to change anytime soon?
Just to be clear: my posts in this thread are specifically talking about straight men who are attracted to the female body, which also happens to be the majority of men. Maybe I should have explicitly stated that from the beginning.
Physical features are clearly important for ((most) straight) men when it comes to finding a woman physically attractive (the first ten pages of this thread are a good example of that). That's not to say that women don't care about physical attractiveness, nor am I saying men ONLY care about physical attractiveness, but it really seems like physical attractiveness is more important for men than it is for women. I would consider that a more "primitive" way of finding someone attractive since humans are much more than just physical creatures, hence my original comment.
So in this thread we have people who claim that only men talking and caring about physical features, only straight men even, because somehow being gay somehow completely change everything in that regard.
Some people sure have a skewed image of the mystical creatures called women.
So in this thread we have people who claim that only men talking and caring about physical features, only straight men even, because somehow being gay somehow completely change everything in that regard.
Some people sure have a skewed image of the mystical creatures called women.
Yep very sexist and downright wrong, what about Gay men, Lesbian women or just about any other woman or man that won't fit your definition ? What makes sex "primitive"?
Because most species use sex only for reproduction , mostly humans want it for pleasure, that would make humans more evolved given how we have entire cultures around it.
I've stated that I'm talking about most straight men here. I didn't say sex is primitive. I didn't say humans are less evolved. You're putting a lot of words in my mouth.
So in this thread we have people who claim that only men talking and caring about physical features, only straight men even, because somehow being gay somehow completely change everything in that regard.
Some people sure have a skewed image of the mystical creatures called women.
Is it straight-up misogyny to have a sexual preference or an aesthetic for beauty? Or merely to express said preference?
Looking back over the thread, there's only been a handful of people who posted pictures for approval or evaluation. Mostly just one guy humble-bragging about his wife and one person's picture of Jennifer Lopez. I was kinda surprised how restrained it has been.
Can you honestly say that's been the tone of this discussion? "Anyone who doesn't have what I like is worthless"?
Objectifying women is misogyny, full-stop. The implication is there in a significant number of posts in this thread.
Expressing your preferences when called for is one thing. When no one asks for it and you still chime in because you feel obligated to and no one ever pushes back... at the very least, that's a sign.
Your feelings? About what features the other person finds most attractive...? "No you dont! You're into feet!" I'll take your input on what I like if you want, Laiza.
How is it not, at the very least, rude to talk about someone's body parts where anyone can read those thoughts? If I started making judgmental statements about how a certain size of bicep, or a certain level of ab definition, is by far superior to all others or the best or whatever in front of your face, would you not at least stop to question why I suddenly felt the need to blurt that out without at least a prompt to initiate it?
This entire thread feels like, to me, a bunch of strangers making judgmental statements about what my body should look like to be optimal for sexual attraction. Of course, none of them are addressing me personally, but that's the feeling I get nonetheless. And the problem is that the OP does not prompt any of this (note, there is no poll and the thread is not a survey) - guys just suddenly feel completely free to chime in because... it's normal. Because it's completely normal. Because it happens all over the Internet unabated, with no one to rein it in or keep people in check.
And then the response is usually "but lots of guys surely find you attractive!" and I don't fucking care about that, I care about the fact that making these kinds of statements is so normalized that people are conditioned to not give a shit when it happens. The fact that other guys don't share your tastes isn't really a statement of comfort as much as it is a deflection to absolve yourselves of any blame when feelings get hurt or people feel squicked out by the level of... enthusiasm on display.
I haven't, so I don't really know what you're saying.
I've stated that I'm talking about most straight men here. I didn't say sex is primitive. I didn't say humans are less evolved. You're putting a lot of words in my mouth.
I do have to say I find it kind of off-putting how a what is usually a very liberal, pro-feminism forum instantly turns into an all-out perv-fest as soon as women's bodies become the sole subject of a topic. While in any other thread about the issues of over-sexualization of women you'll see the majority (usually) of people here support discussing and shining a light on how the constant objectification is wrong and needs to be changed.
...But, oh, what's that? A thread about butts vs. boobs?! Nevermind, it's pervy time again!!
I'm not saying discussing physical attractiveness of certain people is in any way wrong, and I'm a heterosexual male myself, but it's just something that bothers me cause I've seen it countless times where feminist sentiments just get tossed to the side for a bit and any woman who chips in on how a thread makes her feel uncomfortable, they just get dismissed in lieu of continuing of drooling an ocean over tits and ass.
Basically this. I've tried not to post in this thread for the most part in the hopes that it would just die but clearly that's not happening. This entire topic has been incredibly cringe worthy to me. Sure, you will get the odd insightful post but for the most part this thread has been drive-by posters exuding their sexual preferences of how they think women should be. It astounds me that on such a liberal forum, we can still degenerate into this objectifying squabbling. This isn't for or against pineapple on pizza. This is something that affects real people and is obviously making members on this board uncomfortable. Most of you need to grow up.
The joke is that porn is 100% objectification of men and women per definition, complaining about it is either cringeworthy or even resemble a paranoia.
Expressing your preferences when called for is one thing. When no one asks for it and you still chime in because you feel obligated to and no one ever pushes back... at the very least, that's a sign.
Any headline like "Millennials believe this" or "Millennials are causing that" is basically an open invitation for millennials to chime in with their anecdotal agreement or disagreement.
In retrospect it seems kinda dumb that this devolved into breasts vs. butts given that the shoddy research in question has absolutely nothing to say about butts or millennials' preference for them.
I never mentioned "sexual acts" in my posts. I've been talking about what straight men find physically and sexually attractive in women. The dog part is called an analogy. Explaining my use of the terms "evolved" and "primitive" would just be repeating things I've already said in this thread.
My point is that men and women aren't nearly as different sexually as you suggest. In fact I'd argue they're almost the same.
The real difference is cultural attitudes as to how men and women are expected to express their sexuality. You perceive this as some sort of universal truth that men are somehow less evolved than women, when in reality you're basing all of this off stereotypical gender norms.
Any headline like "Millennials believe this" or "Millennials are causing that" is basically an open invitation for millennials to chime in with their anecdotal agreement or disagreement.
In retrospect it seems kinda dumb that this devolved into breasts vs. butts given that the shoddy research in question has absolutely nothing to say about butts or millennials' preference for them.
Really, if anything else this just shows that what's being said is correct: millennials are the worst. No amount of snark, smarm or memes will obfuscate this fact.
Ah, yeah, I can totally see that. I also thought those comments were rude. It's like film snobs. "I don't see the appeal of X genre, so X genre is bad." (It's not really like film snobs, but the non-chalant way it's discussed feels like it.)
The tone of those comments definitely gives off a "the other thing is gross " vibe.
But yeah, I know confidence is an issue you wrestle with (I've been a supporter of you for a while now!), and it's one I've wrestled with my whole life (especially when I got vitiligo in my early 20's), and being confident in yourself, and loving yourself is soooo important. My whole outlook on life changed once I started to (plainly fully slowly), change my views of myself. I don't find it coincidental that I met my wife through a mutual friend after I began to exude that new confidence. I'm not saying my wife "validates" me, or vice versa, just that learning to love myself had a profound effect on my sense of self.
Searching the thread for the term "unappealing" yields 0 results. The word has not been used by someone here, as far as I can tell. Of course perhaps search is a little wonky since it at least should have returned your post. I think it takes a little time for new posts to be added to the search database.
Searching the thread fpr "appeal"/"appealing" yields 2 posters who said they did not understand the appeal of some body part. 2 people out of at least a couple hundred who have replied. So I don't think that's been the overall tone or tenor.
People have hierarchies of preference, and if forced to choose sides or pick a favorite they generally will and can. If you read an "X > Y" statement as "Anything lacking in X is poor, bad or subpar" then that's kind of your own interpretation, and not really the intent.
Objectifying women is misogyny, full-stop. The implication is there in a significant number of posts in this thread.
Expressing your preferences when called for is one thing. When no one asks for it and you still chime in because you feel obligated to and no one ever pushes back... at the very least, that's a sign.
...I have no idea how to respond to this post, and I am only quoting it so I can say that.
How is it not, at the very least, rude to talk about someone's body parts where anyone can read those thoughts? If I started making judgmental statements about how a certain size of bicep, or a certain level of ab definition, is by far superior to all others or the best or whatever in front of your face, would you not at least stop to question why I suddenly felt the need to blurt that out without at least a prompt to initiate it?
This entire thread feels like, to me, a bunch of strangers making judgmental statements about what my body should look like to be optimal for sexual attraction. Of course, none of them are addressing me personally, but that's the feeling I get nonetheless. And the problem is that the OP does not prompt any of this (note, there is no poll and the thread is not a survey) - guys just suddenly feel completely free to chime in because... it's normal. Because it's completely normal. Because it happens all over the Internet unabated, with no one to rein it in or keep people in check.
And then the response is usually "but lots of guys surely find you attractive!" and I don't fucking care about that, I care about the fact that making these kinds of statements is so normalized that people are conditioned to not give a shit when it happens. The fact that other guys don't share your tastes isn't really a statement of comfort as much as it is a deflection to absolve yourselves of any blame when feelings get hurt or people feel squicked out by the level of... enthusiasm on display.
How is it not, at the very least, rude to talk about someone's body parts where anyone can read those thoughts? If I started making judgmental statements about how a certain size of bicep, or a certain level of ab definition, is by far superior to all others or the best or whatever in front of your face, would you not at least stop to question why I suddenly felt the need to blurt that out without at least a prompt to initiate it?
This entire thread feels like, to me, a bunch of strangers making judgmental statements about what my body should look like to be optimal for sexual attraction. Of course, none of them are addressing me personally, but that's the feeling I get nonetheless. And the problem is that the OP does not prompt any of this (note, there is no poll and the thread is not a survey) - guys just suddenly feel completely free to chime in because... it's normal. Because it's completely normal. Because it happens all over the Internet unabated, with no one to rein it in or keep people in check.
It WOULD be rude if people were talking about specific people but saying you find a nice butt attracts you more than nice boobs is not talking about a specific person. They're not even for the most part (with a few exceptions) about what specifically they like just that they are more attracted to a nice butt over other stuff.
How is it not, at the very least, rude to talk about someone's body parts where anyone can read those thoughts? If I started making judgmental statements about how a certain size of bicep, or a certain level of ab definition, is by far superior to all others or the best or whatever in front of your face, would you not at least stop to question why I suddenly felt the need to blurt that out without at least a prompt to initiate it?
And wait what? The posters here didn't stop you on the street to tell you they like big butts. This is a thread about preferences in specific porn "interests", this is not unprompted.
If I started making judgmental statements about how a certain size of bicep, or a certain level of ab definition, is by far superior to all others or the best or whatever in front of your face, would you not at least stop to question why I suddenly felt the need to blurt that out without at least a prompt to initiate it?
If it was a thread related to that, no? Going at a random thread and saying "I like ___ more than ___", "having a ___ is perfect" is one thing. In this thread? No, the whole basis of the thread is what people like.
It WOULD be rude if people were talking about specific people but saying you find a nice butt attracts you more than nice boobs is not talking about a specific person. They're not even for the most part (with a few exceptions) about what specifically they like just that they are more attracted to a nice butt over other stuff.
Looking at the OP and that the article is about porn search tags. Stating your preferences is, well, only relevant for porn. Why some people think to base their self esteem on it is rather weird.
People will always have preferences to specific physical features.
I'm pretty sure there was an ass-revolution sometime within the last 15 years. To the point where you really don't know if somebody was born with it, or its maybelline. I know I used to obsess about it.
Still you can't deny when somebody has a nice upper body, male or female, it draws a lot of attention.
If you had to pick one thing, that would not be fair. I'm just glad that it became more hip to have a nice booty. Since you can actually get that by working out, as opposed to getting breast implants being the only enhancement option.
Interesting personality, Cute face, Ideal body. If you can find the balance of these three, happiness is guaranteed.
Some people shouldn't flatter themselves though. If you're swinging out of your league, it's most likely due to confidence + good personality. Unless you're wealthy. Being well-hung, like most of us on NeoGAF, does not necessarily mean as much to women as we like to believe.
I've got no counterarguments for the people calling this tits-vs-ass shitposting stuff out (I'm to blame, myself), but I always saw it as ALSO a win for sex positivity, that people can discuss their sexual attractions freely. Of course it should be benefiting people of all orientations, which is not really happening right now in this context. That makes these discussions, above all other reasons, contribute to objectification imo.
Edit: Two minor points- one, it isn't entirely unprompted in this particular thread IMHO though also not 100% relevant. Two, I'd rather see this talk as people being open about their attractions- there's an assumption that talking about what people like best about other people's bodies means people want to see others change their bodies to appeal to their own attractions, but I don't think that's necessarily true. People can support everyone shaping their own body as they see fit, AND wish to discuss their own preferences which should have no bearing on how others (should) look.
Really, if anything else this just shows that what's being said is correct: millennials are the worst. No amount of snark, smarm or memes will obfuscate this fact.
It WOULD be rude if people were talking about specific people but saying you find a nice butt attracts you more than nice boobs is not talking about a specific person. They're not even for the most part (with a few exceptions) about what specifically they like just that they are more attracted to a nice butt over other stuff.
I think a big part of it is the fact that it is ubiquitous. Especially since I'm into a lot of Japanese media, I am basically always knee-deep in that sort of fandom bullshit, and this thread is just compounding that on top of everything else I see pretty much everywhere. It's like the thing with microaggressions - ultimately minor when taken in a vacuum, but happens so frequently in so many places that it adds up into this oppressive pile of shit that really fuckin' stinks and makes life that much more insufferable.
Basically, I wish it weren't acceptable to just spout this out everywhere and, frankly, I'm really not interested in that sort of conversation either way. If anything, if I ever do talk about body parts it's in an aspirational way about what I'd like to be capable of and how I want to look, which is far, FAR cry from me trying to express how I want other peoples' bodies to be shaped. I simply never participate in conversations about the latter (aside from my own ideas with regards to female character design, anyway).
Well, except for this thread apparently. For some reason it pushed some buttons that I really didn't need pushing. Isn't that weird? I think it's weird. There has to be a reason for this, right? Otherwise I'd have skipped this thread entirely and never said anything at all...
And wait what? The posters here didn't stop you on the street to tell you they like big butts. This is a thread about preferences in specific porn "interests", this is not unprompted.
If it was a thread related to that, no? Going at a random thread and saying "I like ___ more than ___", "having a ___ is perfect" is one thing. In this thread? No, the whole basis of the thread is what people like.
And I'm perfectly okay with all the posts pointing out that people don't need to search for specific breast tags anyway. That's a bit different from telling people "I love asses" and having that be the entire content of your post.
I did not say you were wrong for being offended. When people express a preference though, it's generally not implicit that the things that aren't their #1 favorite are unappealing, bad, or undesirable. If I ask your preference between blonde hair and black hair you could probably pick one, but it wouldn't be to the extreme detriment or denigration of the other.
Growing up in the 90s it's wasn't at all good to have a big ass. And I did. I got teased to high hell about it. So now I'm super self conscious about my butt. And it's still big.
I think a big part of it is the fact that it is ubiquitous. Especially since I'm into a lot of Japanese media, I am basically always knee-deep in that sort of fandom bullshit, and this thread is just compounding that on top of everything else I see pretty much everywhere. It's like the thing with microaggressions - ultimately minor when taken in a vacuum, but happens so frequently in so many places that it adds up into this oppressive pile of shit that really fuckin' stinks and makes life that much more insufferable.
Basically, I wish it weren't acceptable to just spout this out everywhere and, frankly, I'm really not interested in that sort of conversation either way. If anything, if I ever do talk about body parts it's in an aspirational way about what I'd like to be capable of and how I want to look, which is far, FAR cry from me trying to express how I want other peoples' bodies to be shaped. I simply never participate in conversations about the latter (aside from my own ideas with regards to female character design, anyway).
Well, except for this thread apparently. For some reason it pushed some buttons that I really didn't need pushing. Isn't that weird? I think it's weird. There has to be a reason for this, right? Otherwise I'd have skipped this thread entirely and never said anything at all...
Sure, yeah, I can get how the body standards in media combined with a thread like this kind of reinforces the notion that you're always being judged for your appearance over other things. I still can't say that I think posters are wrong for stating that they have a preference when the topic comes up but I can also see how on your end, it can be a bit much. It's certainly something to be mindful of in the future!
Growing up in the 90s it's wasn't at all good to have a big ass. And I did. I got teased to high hell about it. So now I'm super self conscious about my butt. And it's still big.
The immutable laws of butt trends are that butts are a flat circle and a butt in motion, stays in motion. The time for big butts is always either now or around the corner.
Yeah exactly lol.
Just wanted to say that cuz i had a few posts about some preferences here otherwise i might have looked like a super douchebag and proved that millenials are always bad.
I did not say you were wrong for being offended. When people express a preference though, it's generally not implicit that the things that aren't their #1 favorite are unappealing, bad, or undesirable. If I ask your preference between blonde hair and black hair you could probably pick one, but it wouldn't be to the extreme detriment or denigration of the other.
This topic has been "big asses > pancake asses", "fake boobs ruined tits", "big boobs, imagine when they're 50, greasy things hanging all over the place, eww", "flat asses are not appealing", "I've never liked big breasts", "I've never liked small breasts", "a shapely ass is far more attractive than a pair of boobs".
Hair generally wouldn't get a "blond hair is great, black hair is totally unappealing" if you asked hair preference.
I'm still not understanding how a topic like this would be any different if the sexes were reversed and we were talking about something like uh...I dunno, ass vs. dick? Or chest vs. abs? etc.
If this was any other kind of topic, like discussing the newest DLC for Splatoon 2, and people just started coming in here and arguing about ass vs. boobs, then Laiza, Cluto and Leeness' complaints would have an iota of validity. But it's not. The discussion of ass vs. boobs is the entire topic!
And then we have this asinine strawman that if you have preference for one, then it means you hate the other. Or if you have preference for both, then you hate women who don't have either. You can totally have a preference for one (or many things) while also being capable of finding people without those traits attractive.
Furthermore, EVERYONE has a preference. And yes, that includes women. Which is why it really irks me when you ask women what they find attractive in a guy, they say something like "oh, well I like it when they have a good personality". Oh really? You would prefer a guy who's not an asshole to one who is? YA DON'T SAY. But would these same women be okay with a man such a personality if they looked like Danny Devito or Kevin James? OF COURSE NOT. Ask a hundred women who they find more attractive, Bradd Pitt or that guy who played the grandfather (the one in jail) in Arrested Development, and I'm pretty damn sure such a poll would be fairly one-sided. Women like hot guys as well, and any argument otherwise is not one being made in good faith.
I'm still not understanding how a topic like this would be any different if the sexes were reversed and we were talking about something like uh...I dunno, ass vs. dick?
This topic has been "big asses > pancake asses", "fake boobs ruined tits", "big boobs, imagine when they're 50, greasy things hanging all over the place, eww", "flat asses are not appealing", "I've never liked big breasts", "I've never liked small breasts", "a shapely ass is far more attractive than a pair of boobs".
Hair generally wouldn't get a "blond hair is great, black hair is totally unappealing" if you asked hair preference.
Yeah exactly lol.
Just wanted to say that cuz i had a few posts about some preferences here otherwise i might have looked like a super douchebag and proved that millenials are always bad.
Physical attraction is shallow, it's pretty much inherent to it.
And porn can probably be summarised to Physical attraction and fetish ( ? ).
The truly stupid thing would be to summarize love/dating to that too ( thought denying that physical attraction usually play a role would be stupid too ), but let's be real, if most people were that shallow, humankind would be on the brink of extinction.
I'm happy to be open minded about women's bodies (up to a point, unhealthy looking people are not attractive to me). I like tall & athletic, small and perky, curvy & busty, slim or bubble booty... It's all fine, they all look good to me.
To be perfectly honest, talking about breasts and butts on internet forums is as close as I'll probably ever actually get to interacting with them so it's nice to dream sometimes.
I'm still not understanding how a topic like this would be any different if the sexes were reversed and we were talking about something like uh...I dunno, ass vs. dick? Or chest vs. abs? etc.
If this was any other kind of topic, like discussing the newest DLC for Splatoon 2, and people just started coming in here and arguing about ass vs. boobs, then Laiza, Cluto and Leeness' complaints would have an iota of validity. But it's not. The discussion of ass vs. boobs is the entire topic!
And then we have this asinine strawman that if you have preference for one, then it means you hate the other. Or if you have preference for both, then you hate women who don't have either. You can totally have a preference for one (or many things) while also being capable of finding people without those traits attractive.
Furthermore, EVERYONE has a preference. And yes, that includes women. Which is why it really irks me when you ask women what they find attractive in a guy, they say something like "oh, well I like it when they have a good personality". Oh really? You would prefer a guy who's not an asshole to one who is? YA DON'T SAY. But would these same women be okay with a man such a personality if they looked like Danny Devito or Kevin James? OF COURSE NOT. Ask a hundred women who they find more attractive, Bradd Pitt or that guy who played the grandfather (the one in jail) in Arrested Development, and I'm pretty damn sure such a poll would be fairly one-sided. Women like hot guys as well, and any argument otherwise is not one being made in good faith.
I mean, you can take it however you want. The fact remains that something about this thread makes me deeply uncomfortable and I'm just trying to put those feelings into words the best way I know how. If that's not enough to get you to understand where I'm coming from then I'm obviously not capable of doing it, so, eh.
I will say, as for your first paragraph, it would be pretty much the same thing on the assumption that men were the marginalized sex who have been suffering under matriarchal objectification for a significant proportion of human history and still suffer under it significantly in modern contexts. Too bad that's not how things are today (hoo boy, what a world that'd be!).
