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'Gay wedding cake' case hits US Supreme Court

<+)O Robido O(+>

<+)O Robido O(+>

Member
Blood Borne said:
Leftists believe that if you're white, you must recognize your privilege, and if you don't then you're a racist.
Click to expand...
Do we? I didn't get that memo. But if you're white and vehemently deny privilege exists, that might be an issue.
Blood Borne said:
If you're black/minority, you must recognize and acknowledge that you're oppressed, and if you don't, you're stupid, ignorant and a uncle tom.
Click to expand...
I didn't get this memo either. But if you're black and you think oppression stopped when Civil Rights was signed into law, that might be an issue.
Blood Borne said:
If you're a woman, you must believe that there's a patriarchy system and you must be a feminist, and if you don't, then you have internal misogyny.
Click to expand...
These are far reaching claims. Is there any evidence of all this that doesn't reside on twitter/tumblr?

Blood Borne said:
These are stringent prerequisites that left demands you subscribe to, if not, you're an evil person. This sort of mindset creates a battlefield, it's a "us vs them" mentality. It inhibits discourse. It's very toxic. It's group think and it's racist and sexist.
Click to expand...
Or... its just people observing their surroundings.

Blood Borne said:
Calling me naive and ignorant because I'm black shows you have that mentality of "I know what is best for you". Awful policies such as affirmative action is a byproduct of that mindset. Very akin to colonialists.
Click to expand...
No it doesn't. But okay.
Blood Borne said:
Also, it's hilarious how you keep engaging in mental gymnastics to absolve government from Jim Crow laws. It's inconsequential if Jim Crow laws were enacted by state GOVERNMENT or federal GOVERNMENT. The difference between parent company and subsidiary is of no relevance. GOVERNMENT mandated Jim Crow. GOVERNMENT forced segregation. FACTS. Stop trying to distort history.
Click to expand...
Did you forget that the GOVERNMENT also forced integration? There might have even been guns involved.

Blood Borne said:
It is a human right to engage in voluntary transactions. Government has no right in stopping someone trying earn a living.
Click to expand...

Lol. If anything the government is forcing you to make more of a living by stopping you from being a bigot.

Blood Borne said:
If you want a mod to verify my race/ethnicity, I'll be very much happy to oblige. You have preconceived opinions on how a black or minority should think or behave. But you don't see it as stereotyping or racism.

More so, I never brought up race. It's you guys who keep bringing up race. I mean, the poster above, told me to go shine my swastika, hence it was incumbent that I inform the poster my race.
Click to expand...
If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? These feel like very young arguments. I get that if you're young you may not have had to experience obvious discrimination. But I still believe that you'd have to be blind to see that it doesn't exist.
Blood Borne said:
I have said all I need to say in this topic. I'm pretty sure the SC will favour the baker. This isn't North Korea.
Click to expand...
If they do, then it's truly a sign that the government is broken and rampant discrimination will return to the american marketplace.
 
<+)O Robido O(+>

<+)O Robido O(+>

Member
BANGS said:
For all those saying the baker should be forced to decorate a gay wedding cake, should he also be forced to decorate a Nazi wedding cake or a pedophile birthday cake?
Click to expand...
Can you point out on the constitution where granted protections for Nazi's and pedophiles?

BANGS said:
This is about individual liberties, not LGBT rights. The customer can go anywhere else to get their cake, but the baker can never get their dignity back...
Click to expand...

This is all so very dramatic. He makes cakes. What happens to the cake shouldn't matter to him and bet you sky Jesus has other things to worry about.

FWIW, your individual liberties end when you break the law. As has already been said the baker broke a law he likely didn't know existed. Ignorance of the law is not a shield as he had found out. Gays exercising their rights is not discriminatory. The baker has since stopped offering a service he cannot provide.
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
BANGS said:
For all those saying the baker should be forced to decorate a gay wedding cake, should he also be forced to decorate a nazi wedding cake or a pedophile birthday cake?

This is about individual liberties, not LGBT rights. The customer can go anywhere else to get their cake, but the baker can never get their dignity back...
Click to expand...

What is a pedophile cake? What is a Nazi wedding cake? As has been explained dozens of times, this cake was not going to say anything about gays or gay marriage.
 
N

Night Angel

Member
BANGS said:
For all those saying the baker should be forced to decorate a gay wedding cake, should he also be forced to decorate a nazi wedding cake or a pedophile birthday cake?

This is about individual liberties, not LGBT rights. The customer can go anywhere else to get their cake, but the baker can never get their dignity back...
Click to expand...
Repeat this in your head until it sinks in.

Protected. Class.

We are talking about discrimination against protected classes.
 
D

Dunki

Member
Night Angel said:
Repeat this in your head until it sinks in.

Protected. Class.

We are talking about discrimination against protected classes.
Click to expand...

Freedom of Religion. again they clash at each other who decides which is more worth?

Again the easiest solution would have been. Ok this guy is an asshole lets looks elsewhere.
 
Blood Borne

Blood Borne

Member
<+)O Robido O(+< said:
Do we? I didn't get that memo. But if you're white and vehemently deny privilege exists, that might be an issue.
I didn't get this memo either. But if you're black and you think oppression stopped when Civil Rights was signed into law, that might be an issue.
These are far reaching claims. Is there any evidence of all this that doesn't reside on twitter/tumblr?

Or... its just people observing their surroundings.


No it doesn't. But okay.
Did you forget that the GOVERNMENT also forced integration? There might have even been guns involved.



Lol. If anything the government is forcing you to make more of a living by stopping you from being a bigot.


If you don't mind me asking, how old are you? These feel like very young arguments. I get that if you're young you may not have had to experience obvious discrimination. But I still believe that you'd have to be blind to see that it doesn't exist.

If they do, then it's truly a sign that the government is broken and rampant discrimination will return to the american marketplace.
Click to expand...

I'm glad you inadvertently admitted to the leftists prerequisites.

Also, in what way are blacks oppressed in America? I'm being serious. Please educate and enlighten me.
Name me one, just one policy that is racist.

Blacks in America are the wealthiest blacks on planet earth. No other country on this planet has created more black millionaires and billionaires than America. If blacks in America were to form their own country, it will be the fifteenth wealthiest country. Name me a country that is better for blacks than America?

To answer your question, I'm 31, from Nigeria, West Africa. I've lived in numerous African countries and lots of blacks are trying to get to America. I came here with nothing. Taught myself SQL and MS Excel in 5 months through YouTube. I'm now a Data Analyst. My Mum is now a nurse. My brother moved to the UK and is now an electrical engineer. My sister is a pharmacist. We all made something out of ourselves through discipline and hardwork.

I don't believe racism inhibits anyone from achieving their goals in America. So please, kindly educate me on how America oppresses blacks and minorities from achieving their goals. What exact policies are racists. Also, please list your policy prescriptions, if you were president what policies will you change or pass in order to stop this so called oppression.
 
7

7echnicolor

Member
Dunki said:
Freedom of Religion. again they clash at each other who decides which is more worth?

Again the easiest solution would have been. Ok this guy is an asshole lets looks elsewhere.
Click to expand...

Except by owning and running a business open to the public, you agree to not discriminate against protected classes. He could be any fucking religion and it doesn’t matter because lgbt people are protected under law.

And since y’all love stupid-ass hypotheticals, what if his was the best and only custom cake shop in town? They don’t get a nice cake like all their family and friends might? They just have to deal with it?
 
BANGS

BANGS

Banned
Ok so nazis and pedos build a church and they are a religion now. Does the logic still hold up?
 
<+)O Robido O(+>

<+)O Robido O(+>

Member
Blood Borne said:
I'm glad you inadvertently admitted to the leftists prerequisites.

Also, in what way are blacks oppressed in America? I'm being serious. Please educate and enlighten me.
Name me one, just one policy that is racist.
Click to expand...

There is no one specific policy and think you knew that going in. Application of policy is how its done these days. You can make a policy worded to apply evenly but applied unevenly. One only has to look at the drug war in and how when applied unevenly on a population, when broken down by race, affects one far more than another though both use drugs in the same amount.

Recently there was a voter ID law that on its face would apply to everyone but sought to disallow the types of IDs used by black people, shrink the voting window most often used by black people and moved poling places used most by black people.
The Supreme Court on Monday refused to revive a restrictive North Carolina voting law that a federal appeals court had struck down as an unconstitutional effort to “target African-Americans with almost surgical precision.”

The court’s decision not to hear an appeal in the case effectively overturned one of the most far-reaching attempts by Republicans to counter what they contended, without evidence, was widespread voter fraud in North Carolina. The law rejected the forms of identification used disproportionately by blacks, including IDs issued to government employees, students and people receiving public assistance.
Click to expand...

Blood Borne said:
To answer your question, I'm 31, from Nigeria, West Africa.
Click to expand...

Thank you. This clarifies things a bit. Am I to understand that you didn't grow up here? What was your thoughts on black people before you got here? How enmeshed have you been in the black community since you arrived? Do you think it's fair to say that because we've achieved a certain standard of living that we should be content with what we have because all the other black people have it worse? Does the existence of black billionaires that the effects of slavery and Jim Crow cannot be felt today?

I'll grant you, shit's not as bad as its been historically. Be didn't get where we are by being quiet.
 
S

Snorlocs

Member
BANGS said:
Ok so nazis and pedos build a church and they are a religion now. Does the logic still hold up?
Click to expand...

Yes, because you still are not making any sense. Nazism and pedophilia are not religions, races or sexual orientations (as defined by the law). This means that they are not protected classes, unlike African Americans, the LGBT community and most other minorities. As a protected class they are, well, protected.
 
B

Bookoo

Member
7echnicolor said:
Do you know any pedophiles or Nazis that are looking to form into a church?

It's a stupid-ass hypothetical.
Click to expand...

Well....
..the catholic church. :)



But yea taking things to the extreme and illogical conclusion doesn't make for a good hypothetical.
 
B

Big Blue

Member
Blood Borne said:
So why bring up swastika?
What's the necessity of deducing a poster's demographic? It's still a racist/stereotype thing to do. Attack the food and not the chef.

If I'm black I'm naive and ignorant?
Wow.
This is my issue with people like you/leftists.
Leftists believe that if you're white, you must recognise your privilege, and if you don't then you're a racist.
If you're black/minority, you must recognise and acknowledge that you're oppressed, and if you don't, you're stupid, ignorant and a uncle tom.
If you're a woman, you must believe that there's a patriarchy system and you must be a feminist, and if you don't, then you have internal misogyny.

These are stringent prerequisites that left demands you subscribe to, if not, you're an evil person. This sort of mindset creates a battlefield, it's a "us vs them" mentality. It inhibits discourse. It's very toxic. It's group think and it's racist and sexist.

Calling me naive and ignorant because I'm black shows you have that mentality of "I know what is best for you". Awful policies such as affirmative action is a byproduct of that mindset. Very akin to colonialists.

Also, it's hilarious how you keep engaging in mental gymnastics to absolve government from Jim Crow laws. It's inconsequential if Jim Crow laws were enacted by state GOVERNMENT or federal GOVERNMENT. The difference between parent company and subsidiary is of no relevance. GOVERNMENT mandated Jim Crow. GOVERNMENT forced segregation. FACTS. Stop trying to distort history.

It is a human right to engage in voluntary transactions. Government has no right in stopping someone trying earn a living.



If you want a mod to verify my race/ethnicity, I'll be very much happy to oblige. You have preconceived opinions on how a black or minority should think or behave. But you don't see it as stereotyping or racism.

More so, I never brought up race. It's you guys who keep bringing up race. I mean, the poster above, told me to go shine my swastika, hence it was incumbent that I inform the poster my race.

I have said all I need to say in this topic. I'm pretty sure the SC will favour the baker. This isn't North Korea.
Click to expand...

Wow, you're not even American. It completely validates your ignorance on the subject because being of nationality. In Nigeria, the police never stopped and patted you down because of the color of your skin. In Nigeria, you don't have to change your name to get a job interview. It's really hard (though not impossible) to understand if you don't grow up in America as a minority.
 
CampbellzSoup

CampbellzSoup

Member
Big Blue said:
Wow, you're not even American. It completely validates your ignorance on the subject because being of nationality. In Nigeria, the police never stopped and patted you down because of the color of your skin. In Nigeria, you don't have to change your name to get a job interview. It's really hard (though not impossible) to understand if you don't grow up in America as a minority.
Click to expand...

...I think you’ve run out of you leftist talking points now. Please stop telling someone of color how they don’t understand social issues.
 
Zog

Zog

Banned
Big Blue said:
Wow, you're not even American. It completely validates your ignorance on the subject because being of nationality. In Nigeria, the police never stopped and patted you down because of the color of your skin. In Nigeria, you don't have to change your name to get a job interview. It's really hard (though not impossible) to understand if you don't grow up in America as a minority.
Click to expand...

Hilarious. When someone doesn't see it your way, you begin looking at ways to invalidate their opinion. Atleast it's not white privilege this time. Highly entertaining, would read again!
 
N

Night Angel

Member
CampbellzSoup said:
...I think you’ve run out of you leftist talking points now. Please stop telling someone of color how they don’t understand social issues.
Click to expand...
Seems kinda valid to question someone's knowledge of something they've never been close enough to see or experience, doesn't it?

Someone not from America shouldn't be speaking with such authority about problems in America.
 
B

Big Blue

Member
Zog said:
Hilarious. When someone doesn't see it your way, you begin looking at ways to invalidate their opinion. Atleast it's not white privilege this time. Highly entertaining, would read again!
Click to expand...

CampbellzSoup said:
...I think you’ve run out of you leftist talking points now. Please stop telling someone of color how they don’t understand social issues.
Click to expand...

If you don't understand how a black person born and raised in Nigeria doesn't get racism in the United States, then IDK what to tell you except read Americanah by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
Big Blue said:
If you don't understand how a black person born and raised in Nigeria doesn't get racism in the United States, then IDK what to tell you except read Americanah by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
Click to expand...

Lol at suggesting those two read something longer than a 4chan post.
 
BANGS

BANGS

Banned
7echnicolor said:
Do you know any pedophiles or Nazis that are looking to form into a church?

It’s a stupid-ass hypothetical.
Click to expand...

"Your hypothetical is stupid because it hasnt happened"

Do you know what a hypothetical is?

It's like nobody can answer my question because they realize it goes against their agenda...
 
S

Sarkozix le Gaulois

Member
Big Blue said:
If you don't understand how a black person born and raised in Nigeria doesn't get racism in the United States, then IDK what to tell you except read Americanah by Chimamanda Ngozi Adichie
Click to expand...

Yeah yeah we get it you're educated and you read books.


edit: Unacceptable. Do not insult the poster, discredit the source. Take this as a reminder going forward
 
B

Big Blue

Member
Sarkozix le Gaulois said:
Yeah yeah we get it you're educated and you read books.

What a condescending asshole.
Click to expand...

I'm condescending because I called out a person who lives in a country that's 98% black that he doesn't understand the life of a minority in America. Yeah ok...

In that book she discusses how she didn't realize that race was actually a thing until she immigrated to the United States from Nigeria. I didn't throw out that book without reason, it was an honest suggestion.
 
B

Big Blue

Member
BANGS said:
"Your hypothetical is stupid because it hasnt happened"

Do you know what a hypothetical is?

It's like nobody can answer my question because they realize it goes against their agenda...
Click to expand...

Those aren't protected under the 14th amendment. It's invalid.
 
Dude Abides

Dude Abides

Banned
Big Blue said:
Those aren't protected under the 14th amendment. It's invalid.
Click to expand...

As a point of clarification, We aren’t talking about the fourteenth amendment here. We’re talking about a Colorado statute that protects sexual orientation. The baker is the one making the constitutional claims. Hypothetical’s still dumb, since the statute doesn’t protect Nazis or pedophiles and the cake here was not going to have any message.
 
M

Malakai

Member
Blood Borne said:
I'm glad you inadvertently admitted to the leftists prerequisites.

Also, in what way are blacks oppressed in America? I'm being serious. Please educate and enlighten me.
Name me one, just one policy that is racist.

Blacks in America are the wealthiest blacks on planet earth. No other country on this planet has created more black millionaires and billionaires than America. If blacks in America were to form their own country, it will be the fifteenth wealthiest country. Name me a country that is better for blacks than America?

To answer your question, I'm 31, from Nigeria, West Africa. I've lived in numerous African countries and lots of blacks are trying to get to America. I came here with nothing. Taught myself SQL and MS Excel in 5 months through YouTube. I'm now a Data Analyst. My Mum is now a nurse. My brother moved to the UK and is now an electrical engineer. My sister is a pharmacist. We all made something out of ourselves through discipline and hardwork.

I don't believe racism inhibits anyone from achieving their goals in America. So please, kindly educate me on how America oppresses blacks and minorities from achieving their goals. What exact policies are racists. Also, please list your policy prescriptions, if you were president what policies will you change or pass in order to stop this so called oppression.
Click to expand...

Sweet Jesus, i don't even know where to start with this. The U.S. is extremely segregated. Blacks children, for example, are more likely attend schools where the teachers aren't credentialed. There are massive disparities wealth held by average black person vs the average white person. And I won't even go in the depths of the historical treatment of blacks in the U.S.
 
Croatoan

Croatoan

They/Them A-10 Warthog
Malakai said:
Sweet Jesus, i don't even know where to start with this. The U.S. is extremely segregated. Blacks children, for example, are more likely attend schools where the teachers aren't credentialed. There are massive disparities wealth held by average black person vs the average white person. And I won't even go in the depths of the historical treatment of blacks in the U.S.
Click to expand...

The reason for this school thing isn't forced segregation. Its economical. You can argue that early last century blacks were set up to fail and that has led to the ghettos with the bad schools but you cannot say that there is forced racial segregation today.

Also, in a lot of school districts in Texas (my only frame of reference for schools) poor blacks are bussed to schools that rich whites go to and get the same education. Its only in the massive inner cities that have their own schools that you see the education discrepancy.
 
frogger

frogger

Member
I do see a point of the baker refusing. But, now I know this guy, regardless if I am gay I wouldn't want to give my business to him.
 
mckmas8808

mckmas8808

Mckmaster uses MasterCard to buy Slave drives
frogger said:
I do see a point of the baker refusing. But, now I know this guy, regardless if I am gay I wouldn't want to give my business to him.
Click to expand...

You have to recognize that at some point these things aren't about the individual, but the overall point of not allowing people to do illegal things in your community.

If you walk into a barbershop and see a minor being molested, would you just walk or drive to the next barbershop without telling anybody?
 
Sapiens

Sapiens

Member
frogger said:
I do see a point of the baker refusing. But, now I know this guy, regardless if I am gay I wouldn't want to give my business to him.
Click to expand...

We had this in Canada with a lesbian going to a barber and being refused service because it was against his religious expression to give a haircut to a woman.

It was precaculated. She heard she would be refused service and went their knowing she would be denied as well and had it escalated to the human rights courts immediately.

We never found out the results, because Canada, but when you hear about things like this, they are usually thought out beforehand.

It’s not about taking your business somewhere else. There is nothing preventing people from doing that.

It’s the bigger picture - if one private enterprise can refuse service because some idiotic religious interpretation, why shouldn’t another? It goes beyond cakes. You’re playing into someone’s hand when repeat the idea to take one’s business elsewhere.
 
Sapiens

Sapiens

Member
mckmas8808 said:
You have to recognize that at some point these things aren't about the individual, but the overall point of not allowing people to do illegal things in your community.

If you walk into a barbershop and see a minor being molested, would you just walk or drive to the next barbershop without telling anybody?
Click to expand...

I don’t like this argument
 
Blood Borne

Blood Borne

Member
Big Blue said:
Wow, you're not even American. It completely validates your ignorance on the subject because being of nationality. In Nigeria, the police never stopped and patted you down because of the color of your skin. In Nigeria, you don't have to change your name to get a job interview. It's really hard (though not impossible) to understand if you don't grow up in America as a minority.
Click to expand...
Typical ignorant racist leftist. You think all black people are the same.

Discrimination is worse in Nigeria than America.

We have over 100 tribes in Nigeria. It's a constant war. We're still slaughtering each other til this day. I've been brutally whipped by police. Soldiers gave my father scars on his body.
Yes, preferential treatment is given to the Hausa tribe. Lots of my tribesmen even change their religion to secure a job.

Your ignorance is so offensive. If you have read Chimamanda book like you said you have, you would have known about the constant war and maltreatment in Nigeria.

Ask any, I repeat ask any Nigerian is USA and they will tell you that they're treated better here than in Nigeria. Your ignorance is so bad that it borders on racism, I'm not going to respond to you. What a waste of time. Also, I like how you completely ignored the points I made in my previous. Pathetic.
 
Blood Borne

Blood Borne

Member
Malakai said:
Sweet Jesus, i don't even know where to start with this. The U.S. is extremely segregated. Blacks children, for example, are more likely attend schools where the teachers aren't credentialed. There are massive disparities wealth held by average black person vs the average white person. And I won't even go in the depths of the historical treatment of blacks in the U.S.
Click to expand...

Most of these segregation you speak about are caused by leftist policies. For example, you mentioned schools. Leftists are against school choice. They restrict black people from attending schools of their choice. They tie black people's to their zip code. You MUST attend the school in your zip code. Fucking totalitarians. They're against anything with word "free" or "choice" in it.
 
BANGS

BANGS

Banned
Blood Borne said:
I agree that it was a joke and funny. But let's not delude ourselves and pretend that the reactions will be the same if the poster said "islam".
Click to expand...

It would be from me, but yeah others not so much... It's insane how people have deluded themselves into thinking "generalizations are bad unless they fit my narrative"...
 
V

Vicetrailia

Member
Blood Borne said:
And it's NOT rare to see non black people who THINK they know more about being black than black people. They're called leftists.
Click to expand...

And you know absolutely nothing, so we're not really concerned when leftists call you out. I'm being honest, and I'm only talking about YOU. Don't hide behind black people. Tim Wise should give you a nice lecture.
 
Shouta

Shouta

Member
Blood Borne said:
To answer your question, I'm 31, from Nigeria, West Africa. I've lived in numerous African countries and lots of blacks are trying to get to America. I came here with nothing. Taught myself SQL and MS Excel in 5 months through YouTube. I'm now a Data Analyst. My Mum is now a nurse. My brother moved to the UK and is now an electrical engineer. My sister is a pharmacist. We all made something out of ourselves through discipline and hardwork.

I don't believe racism inhibits anyone from achieving their goals in America. So please, kindly educate me on how America oppresses blacks and minorities from achieving their goals. What exact policies are racists. Also, please list your policy prescriptions, if you were president what policies will you change or pass in order to stop this so called oppression.
Click to expand...

You're from Nigeria? That would actually explain your view of America's current situation. From the outside looking in, America looks pretty fantastic even as it is right now. There's still a lot of freedom and mobility on an individual basis for everyone especially when compared to places with more oppressive governments and/or volatile situations. People aren't being actively and overtly oppressed here as they can be in other places in the world. It's a pretty unique perspective to live in America after experiencing something like that.

However, America still suffers from institutional racism despite the potential mobility of individuals here. The thing is that it's not direct anymore. The types of laws and polices that would target any group would get, rightfully, shot down as racist. So what happens is that they get passed on economic, geographical, or demographic lines where it sneaks under the radar but has damaging effects to minorities, young people, and well, just about everyone.

Gerrymandering of districts is an example of a very zoomed out one that ultimately affects minorities in the end but isn't targeting them directly. A great portion of a state might vote Democrat but because of the way districts are drawn up, they'll be represented by way more Republicans. The way Republicans create laws in this day and age tend to favor big business, the wealthy, less government funding for programs that help people, and the like which negatively affect minorities because the vast majority of them either don't fit into the economic circles that benefit from those laws or they're losing benefits from those programs that are getting their funding pulled. There are a ton of other examples that can be brought up and I would suggest checking out the secondary or even tertiary problems some laws bring up.
 
BANGS

BANGS

Banned
The governement doesn't care about your skin color, only your wallet. Stop pretending policies that screw one economic group of people or the other are racist...
 
frogger

frogger

Member
mckmas8808 said:
You have to recognize that at some point these things aren't about the individual, but the overall point of not allowing people to do illegal things in your community.

If you walk into a barbershop and see a minor being molested, would you just walk or drive to the next barbershop without telling anybody?
Click to expand...

My point is that we should boycott businesses or individuals that discriminate.
 
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