• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo: Reach |OT5| A Monument to All Our Sins

B

bobs...onGaf

Member
FyreWulff said:
It'd be more feasible to have Halo 2 multiplayer brought back as it was already "internet aware" in that it already uses asynch networking.

The big issue with Halo 1 is you cannot have it be 1:1 with the original experience because the original game uses lockstep networking. So you either decide to piss off the people that wanted "halo 1 but over live" exactly like the original by making the needed changes for it to function in an asynch world, or piss off new players by limiting the max unique boxes in any game to 4, because you are NOT going to be doing 16 player lockstep networking. You'd have 5 second input lag.

Perfect Dark XBLA got online working even though the original multi was splitscreen only by shutting off physics objects in online mode. You can't quite get away with that in Halo 1.


And then you add in the fact that for online to even be functional you'd have to seal off all the maps, and now you piss off all the people that bitch that the maps are no longer 1:1.

Honestly, leaving multiplayer out of Anniversary is the best move with those kinds of options.
Click to expand...

Hmm, a straight port wouldnt be possible, but what did they do with Halo PC? I know that was laggy as hell, but if they reworked it with that then surely they could have reworked it here but used better netcode? Or did Halo PC stick with Lockstep and thats why it lags so much?

Out of interest how does Halo 1 multiplayer over Xlink work then? Apparently it works fairly well. Surely if that allows for decent connections they could have emulated that?

I agree more with your point in the other thread about player populations to be honest. Somehow I think that if they put the resources into it they could get Halo 1 working over live and be true to its original. I just dont think the work was justifiable considering that they would have risked splitting the population, or worse not attracting very many players.
 
ElRenoRaven

ElRenoRaven

Member
The Real Napsta said:
They should have at least given us all the maps for splitscreen and system link so we can LAN with pretty graphics and decent performance on 360.
Click to expand...

See that would have been a perfectly acceptable compromise in my opinion.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Halo 1 PC is asynch but the tradeoff is that physics objects tend to frameskip and desync like a bitch because MS wanted it to work over dialup. Plus Gearbox couldn't even decide if it was going to be asynch or deterministic until late in the project, which is kind of silly when the biggest feature of your new port is online multiplayer. There's a bunch of little nuances re: leading and such that would also irritate Xbox hardcore players.

XBC worked by passing the frame packets over the internet. It worked decently because you were still limited to only 4 unique Xboxes, but most of the time on XBC the game was only 'great' for the host and 'playable' for the not-host Xboxes, because they got slower packet updates. Like I said earlier, it'd be possible to just bring it back using lockstep, but would people go for a competitive Halo multiplayer with 4 players max in a game and no ability to join-in-progress? I don't think they would.

Later Halo titles (2, 3, Reach) still use asynch networking for multiplayer even on LAN, which makes it funny when people say "BUT IT STILL HAPPENS ON LAN" (like grenades being "corrected" to stick someone when it appears they missed at first), because well, there's still packet loss and host correction and client prediction on LAN in later games.
 
T

The Real Napsta

Member
FyreWulff said:
XBC worked by passing the frame packets over the internet. It worked decently because you were still limited to only 4 unique Xboxes, but most of the time on XBC the game was only 'great' for the host and 'playable' for the not-host Xboxes, because they got slower packet updates. Like I said earlier, it'd be possible to just bring it back using lockstep, but would people go for a competitive Halo multiplayer with 4 players max in a game and no ability to join-in-progress? I don't think they would.
Click to expand...

2v2 is where it's at in Halo CE.

I'd take it.
 
T

Trasher

Member
kylej said:
I don't think Boston could handle the combined Ray-Ban wearing hipsterdom of us both. I'd probably go for like 2 seconds if Halo was there then leave and just hit some bars with my Halo Bros. I'll buy Tawpgun a diet coke.
Click to expand...
I would go to PAX East just to see this. It would be comforting knowing someone else is there that loves Walshy just as much as I do. Hopefully he'd be there so we could get our Gunnar's signed.
 
D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
GhaleonEB said:
The new maps are basically Reach's final DLC pack, so I'd be shocked if they were contained to a single or subset of playlists.
Click to expand...

Im really disappointed by this. I cant believe we aren't getting anything this summer. I would love a new Forge based map with an different art style/environment/color pallet from what we have now.


thewesker said:
Gad, I hope not. Leave that garbage out of Reach.
Click to expand...

Really? I personally found Halo 2's maps the best out of the series.
 
S

senador

Banned
Demoncarnotaur said:
Im really disappointed by this. I cant believe we aren't getting anything this summer. I would love a new Forge based map with an different art style/environment/color pallet from what we have now.
Click to expand...

The more I think about this, the more I don't want it nor do I think it would work. I am sick of Forge maps as is. Getting a new pallet just won't matter. Maps would have to be made again, found again, playtested again, put into rotation. Its just too late IMO. 343 will have their focus on taking over Reach, playlist updates, TU, CEA, and Halo 4.

Its just not feasible at this point to get Forge maps into rotation. If they did, it'd just be more Forge maps. So a new Forge world would just be for customs. I'd rather them just make actual maps at this point.
 
T

The Librarian

Banned
OT I know, but...

I was driving to Five Guys to get my lunch (it's a short five-minute drive from where I live). On the way, a red truck pulls up behind me after making a left turn out of the Library I have to pass. The dude drives really close to my car for the next three or so minutes until I was able to make a left into the area where the Five Guys is. I didn't realize he had made a left and was following me until he parks right next to me in front of Five Guys. At that point I was thinking, "That's a coincidence." So I got out of my car and he his, then he came up and started talking to me. It wasn't a coincidence at all. He said more, but here's the most important bits of the conversation that followed:

Him: "I don't appreciate you driving in front of me with your," he goes to the back of my car and points, "Obama '08 and Star Trek stickers."
Me: "Okay..."
Him: "Did someone put you up to this?"
Me: "I have no idea what you're talking about."
Him: "Well, you better not."

Then he gets back in his car, backs out, and drives away.

I dunno, HaloGAF. Maybe I should start driving around with Halo bumper stickers to see if random people get randomly pissed off at that too!
 
D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
Dax01 said:
OT I know, but...

I was driving to Five Guys to get my lunch (it's a short five-minute drive from where I live). On the way, a red truck pulls up behind me after making a left turn out of the Library I have to pass. The dude drives really close to my car for the next three or so minutes until I was able to make a left into the area where the Five Guys is. I didn't realize he had made a left and was following me until he parks right next to me in front of Five Guys. At that point I was thinking, "That's a coincidence." So I got out of my car and he his, then he came up and started talking to me. It wasn't a coincidence at all. He said more, but here's the most important bits of the conversation that followed:

Him: "I don't appreciate you driving in front of me with your," he goes to the back of my car and points, "Obama '08 and Star Trek stickers."
Me: "Okay..."
Him: "Did someone put you up to this?"
Me: "I have no idea what you're talking about."
Him: "Well, you better not."

Then he gets back in his car, backs out, and drives away.

I dunno, HaloGAF. Maybe I should start driving around with Halo bumper stickers to see if random people get randomly pissed off at that too!
Click to expand...

What the hell? Haha oh god, I would love to know what was going through his mind.
 
G

Gabotron ES

Member
Demoncarnotaur said:
Im really disappointed by this. I cant believe we aren't getting anything this summer. I would love a new Forge based map with an different art style/environment/color pallet from what we have now.
Click to expand...
I prefer to think they're really bussy working to give us a real map editor, not all this megablock bullshit.
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
senador said:
The more I think about this, the more I don't want it nor do I think it would work. I am sick of Forge maps as is. Getting a new pallet just won't matter. Maps would have to be made again, found again, playtested again, put into rotation. Its just too late IMO. 343 will have their focus on taking over Reach, playlist updates, TU, CEA, and Halo 4.

Its just not feasible at this point to get Forge maps into rotation. If they did, it'd just be more Forge maps. So a new Forge world would just be for customs. I'd rather them just make actual maps at this point.
Click to expand...

(Current) time since the launch of Halo: Reach - 10 months

Assuming a November launch for Halo 4 (Holiday 2012):
Time between the launch of CEA and Halo 4 - 12 months

Too late? lol
Reach isn't even halfway through its life yet.
 
T

Tunavi

Banned
Mojo said:
Has it been confirmed there will be Halo 2 map(s) with CEA?
Click to expand...
thewesker said:
Gad, I hope not. Leave that garbage out of Reach.
Click to expand...
SARJB.gif
 
S

senador

Banned
ncsuDuncan said:
(Current) time since the launch of Halo: Reach - 10 months

Assuming a November launch for Halo 4 (Holiday 2012):
Time between the launch of CEA and Halo 4 - 12 months

Too late? lol
Reach isn't even halfway through its life yet.
Click to expand...

Well I explained why I thought that.

Let's add Halo 4 beta in there too. With all that and 343 being new do you think its feasible to get new Forge maps from a new Forge map in? I don't. That's even if a Forge map is part of CEA maps, what if we do get another map pack and a Forge map were included after CEA? I just don't see it working well.

Plus, I personally hate community made Forge maps. I can't stand them. I like Asylum and Cliffhanger, and put up with with Uncaged. I avoid Team Slayer now because of excessive Forge maps. They just aren't the same. I'd definitely prefer a "real" map over another Forge world.
 
T

The Real Napsta

Member
Devolution said:
Whoa whoa.

Hold the fucking phone. Halo 2 still has the best maps overall. Although colossus and burial mounds can suck a dick.
Click to expand...

Containment
Entire maptacular map pack
Waterworks

All terrible

Foundation was pretty bad too.
 
F

feel

Member
Dax01 said:
OT I know, but...

I was driving to Five Guys to get my lunch (it's a short five-minute drive from where I live). On the way, a red truck pulls up behind me after making a left turn out of the Library I have to pass. The dude drives really close to my car for the next three or so minutes until I was able to make a left into the area where the Five Guys is. I didn't realize he had made a left and was following me until he parks right next to me in front of Five Guys. At that point I was thinking, "That's a coincidence." So I got out of my car and he his, then he came up and started talking to me. It wasn't a coincidence at all. He said more, but here's the most important bits of the conversation that followed:

Him: "I don't appreciate you driving in front of me with your," he goes to the back of my car and points, "Obama '08 and Star Trek stickers."
Me: "Okay..."
Him: "Did someone put you up to this?"
Me: "I have no idea what you're talking about."
Him: "Well, you better not."

Then he gets back in his car, backs out, and drives away.

I dunno, HaloGAF. Maybe I should start driving around with Halo bumper stickers to see if random people get randomly pissed off at that too!
Click to expand...
Around these parts that story would've led to me getting bumped to try and make me stop to complain about it, and then having a gun shoved down my throat and the promise of a bullet soon after if I don't present an expensive smartphone in the next few seconds. Then there would me a backpack in my backseat containing my only copies of Halo 1&2 and some controllers (as I was on my way to a LAN at my friend's place), that they would take with them despite huge disapointment after looking inside, then I would bitch about it on halogaf. Dax I'm disappoint.
 
D

Devolution

Member
The Real Napsta said:
Containment
Entire maptacular map pack
Waterworks

All terrible

Foundation was pretty bad too.
Click to expand...

I'd rather have those big team maps than the current stock in Reach.

Turf was fine. Relic was ok. Elongation should have had smaller teams. How dare you shit on Terminal.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
FyreWulff said:
Halo 1 PC is asynch but the tradeoff is that physics objects tend to frameskip and desync like a bitch because MS wanted it to work over dialup. Plus Gearbox couldn't even decide if it was going to be asynch or deterministic until late in the project, which is kind of silly when the biggest feature of your new port is online multiplayer. There's a bunch of little nuances re: leading and such that would also irritate Xbox hardcore players.
Click to expand...
All I was really hoping out of Anniversary was an improved version of online multiplayer, Halo PC's was jank as hell. Some things would be different in the online space, but I think it's unreasonable to expect the game to act as perfectly as it would offline. People got used to the leading in Halo 3.
 
T

Trasher

Member
Devolution said:
Whoa whoa.

Hold the fucking phone. Halo 2 still has the best maps overall. Although colossus and burial mounds can suck a dick.
Click to expand...
Those two maps are still pretty damn good. They definitely put the maps in Reach to shame.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
ncsuDuncan said:
Well it looks like we're getting Beaver Creek instead of Battle Creek, if that counts.

From the comments made it sounds like another Halo 2 map or two could be a possibility.

Halo 1
Hang em High
Damnation
Mysterious Firefight map from Campaign

Halo PC
Timberland

Halo 2
Beaver Creek
So there are still 2 maps to be revealed. I would imagine at least one of them is from Halo 2, especially considering bs angel's comment about "no fall damage" being added in the Title Update when it's not a big deal on Beaver Creek. Personally I'm pulling for Headlong, especially if it doubles as a human Forge World.

I'd be surprised if any Halo 3 maps are included, with the excuse that you can still play them online.
Click to expand...


Why do you think it's Beaver and not Battle with no ladders? Not that it makes a difference. Just for your count I suppose.
 
D

Devolution

Member
Trasher said:
Those two maps are still pretty damn good. They definitely put the maps in Reach to shame.
Click to expand...

Colossus spawns were terrible. Burial Mounds was a bit better when there was finally BR starts. Otherwise you were pretty SOL in objective games on offense. But it still suffered from offense being able to look right down on beam and spawns with their BRs/sniper.
 
H

Havok

Member
The Real Napsta said:
Entire maptacular map pack
Waterworks

All terrible
Click to expand...
what.

Also, Burial Mounds was in the lower tier of Halo 2 maps, but I'd take it over most Reach maps any day. That's the quality bar that game set.
 
T

Trasher

Member
Devolution said:
Colossus spawns were terrible. Burial Mounds was a bit better when there was finally BR starts. Otherwise you were pretty SOL in objective games on offense. But it still suffered from offense being able to look right down on beam and spawns with their BRs/sniper.
Click to expand...
Offense got the beam rifle actually if I recall. Sniper was inside the base on the bridge that leads to the bomb plant.
 
D

Devolution

Member
Havok said:
what.

Also, Burial Mounds was in the lower tier of Halo 2 maps, but I'd take it over most Reach maps any day. That's the quality bar that game set.
Click to expand...

Pretty much, as much as I don't like Colossus and Burial Mounds they're still a lot better than Reach maps, especially the forge abominations.


Trasher said:
Offense got the beam rifle actually if I recall. Sniper was inside the base on the bridge that leads to the bomb plant.
Click to expand...

I meant defense there sorry. The way they set it up defense could just look down on beam and spawn without much sacrifice on their end.
 
Hitmonchan107

Hitmonchan107

Member
Steelyuhas said:
LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

In case Hitmonchan is reading this and bawling his eyes out, I was referring to publications such as IGN that show a complete lack of knowledge about the very games they are covering, not Hitmonchan's excellent HBO barrage of news from all sorts of corners of the web.
Click to expand...

My ego, it is nourished.

---------------

In games journalism, timeliness is a more profitable quality than accuracy.

The gaming press is a constant race for second place. Being first means your publication is sourced in subsequent articles on the subject, but not everyone can be the first to break the news. Being second means there's a greater chance that your publication will be sourced alongside the original source, which means the speed at which you can write a story has an impact on how many clicks your site can receive. Because of this, there's a lack of accountability in the industry. Journalists are fired for fact errors at a general news publication, but the punishment for slipping up in the gaming press is minimum, especially if the offender is adept at quick-hit stories.

General news readers don't expect news journalists to be an expert in every field they cover. News journalists are simply gatherers of information from experts in the field who compile the news into an unbiased, easily digestible morsel. But gamers demand that games journalists should be experts on everything and know every detail about every game. And it's hard to remain 100 percent accurate when you're under pressure to deliver the day's news as fast as possible, especially if the first site made a fact error.

I think the people on GAF who deride gaming publications for inaccuracies are in the minority. I've found that people care more for the style and the entertainment value of gaming news than the accuracy of it, and until readers demand more from publications, offending sites will stay their course.
 
D

Devolution

Member
FyreWulff said:
Beam Rifle spawn was easily covered.

xCeh0.jpg


I liked the map, but the spawns were horrible for Objective. Blue started in a killing field.
Click to expand...


Yup. That was what I was getting at. It was even worse when that shit was just SMG starts too.
 
D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
Just wanted to say I really liked the art style for Halo 2. I would love to see its style updated with Reach's engine. Its hard to explain, but everything looked different in style then.
 
R

Rickenslacker

Banned
Demoncarnotaur said:
Just wanted to say I really liked the art style for Halo 2. I would love to see its style updated with Reach's engine. Its hard to explain, but everything looked different in style then.
Click to expand...
That's 'cause everything in 2 looked like it was covered in plastic but it wasn't washed over in filmgrain either.
 
H

Havok

Member
Tunavi said:
I still hope we get a premium big team battle playlist for August. This game needs it BADLY
Click to expand...
...seriously? You want a playlist that will consist of what, Highlands and the occasional bad Breakpoint game, because that map was designed obviously with only Invasion in mind? Tempest, the next largest, would be a nightmare with 16 people. 16 people floating in the Condemned low-grav section. Split up a playlist that currently has 850 people in it. Does not compute.

You'd be better off asking for a DLC search restriction in the title update and removal of the mostly bad Forge maps from BTB as it stands. There was a Renegade game recently that just made me so disillusioned with the entire idea of Forge. What a god-awful map.
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
Why do you think it's Beaver and not Battle with no ladders? Not that it makes a difference. Just for your count I suppose.
Click to expand...
...interesting.

So what you're saying is, it would be more logical to count it like:

Halo 1 - 4 maps
Mysterious Firefight map from Campaign
Hang em High
Damnation
Battle Creek - without ladders!

Halo PC - 1 map
Timberland

Halo 2 - No announced maps. (Yet?)

Halo 2 Vista - No announced maps. (Not that I'm expecting any.)

Halo 3 - No announced maps. (Not that I'm expecting any.)

Unannounced CEA maps remaining: 2 (well, 3 if you count that Firefight one).
 
S

Striker

Member
Didn't we see the dirt hills for Beaver Creek already? I swore in clips they've released showed it.

Trasher said:
Those two maps are still pretty damn good. They definitely put the maps in Reach to shame.
Click to expand...
They put alot of Halo Reach and Halo 3 maps to shame. Look how many medium size, symmetrical maps we've had in these two games. Standoff and Tempest can relate, but I still rather have Colossus than either of those two. Too many spawn issues on each.

And how many fun 1-flag/1-bomb games in them? Outside Reflection and High Ground, I can't think of any others that standout.

Burial Mounds, Zanzibar, Ivory Tower, Turf, Terminal, Relic were great for 4v4. WTF happened to asymmetrical Halo maps. :(
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

Halo Infinite Firefight Announced - December 5th
News 2
98
8K
twilo99 replied
Halo Infinite Noble Intentions
9
1K
anthony2690 replied
Game Hubs Now Available for all PC Players
12
914
Little Chicken replied
The Xbox October Update is Rolling Out: Keyboard Mapping for Controllers and More
10
1K
64bitmodels replied
Halo Infinite leaks reveal new Forge mode will have full scripting system
39
5K
Bernkastel replied
Top Bottom