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Kotaku Rumor: PlayStation 4 codenamed 'Orbis', 2013, AMD CPU, SI GPU, Anti-Used Games

sublimit

sublimit

Banned
Even though only 10% of the games i buy are used (maybe even less),if this ends up being true then fuck next gen.Really.They can shove their greed down their asses and let them see how they will handle a new industry crash.They will go down.Fast.

Personally i have a backlog that can last me for years so fuck that shit.I will buy their next gen consoles when they are worth as much as a turd.
 
H

Hoo-doo

Banned
saunderez said:
I dunno like people not buying their console. It's a pretty big repercussion. And Apple and Steam have considerably lower prices to compensate for the lack of resale so no I'm not out of touch. The console manufacturers continue to rip people off they will react by going elsewhere.
Click to expand...

You think the general audience is really going to care about this as much as people on a dedicated gaming board? I find that hard to believe.

Whether Microsoft or Sony goes this route, once the first glimpse of 1080p super-HDified Call of Duty gets released, people worldwide will be grabbing their wallets, and won't even remember this entire discussion.
 
F

Forsaken82

Member
Milhouse31 said:
The solution for used games is :
- wider demographic
- cheaper price

that's all.
Click to expand...

That won't change anything when the main reason people buy used is because it is "cheaper" Even the 10% difference a place like Gamestop offers is cheaper, so even if the games released at 40dollars new, people will still prefer to pay 36 dollars used. The Solution for used game sales is adding GOOD incentive to new game purchases. The online pass is good in theory, but its problem is locking out half the game when you are essentially paying the equivalent of 90% of the total cost is not the way to go about it.

As an industry professional, I applaud the online pass in concept, but not its execution. I want the developers to see more money from used games, but even I groaned when WB announced the kombat pass for MK9.

I think the best way is to offer DLC at a discount for new game buyers (or even better, the occasional free content drop), meanwhile used game buyers aren't restricted from any of the core game, but if they want future content, make them pay twice as much for DLC. Additionally, pre-order incentives like Dark Souls did in that you pay the normal price for additional content whether in game or not (soundtracks, art books, figurines, ect). Give the new game buyer a reason to purchase new and they will. Price means very little when used games are always going to be cheaper.
 
Nizz

Nizz

Member
Midas said:
It would be hilarious if Sony went with 2GB RAM and no HDD. I wonder if they have a white flag ready to fly.
Click to expand...
I really, really hope this isn't the case. I don't want devs to have to think "well, we have so and so many PSS4s out there with no hard drive, so we'll have to take that into account".

At least a minimum 40g included. Hopefully they allow you to put in a 2.5" drive too with however many gigs you want. But probably seeing how MS makes a killing on proprietary HDD, they'll probably do the same.
 
S

StevieP

Banned
THE:MILKMAN said:
So the PS4 will have a 'Kavari' APU with 4 'Steamroller' cores and a GCN GPU?

That about right?
Click to expand...

Close but the architecture is correct
Edit: to clarify - upcoming console parts are not going to be exact replicas of what's being released to consumers. Rather, they will be based on existing/near-future AMD designs customized in various ways to fit the needs of the customer (i.e. in this case Sony and MS).
 
Rhazer Fusion

Rhazer Fusion

Member
I can live with no BC, but if this anti-used games is factual, looks like I am most likely sitting out of next generation. I'm already not looking forward to it, but this only adds fuel to the fire. I never rent games, but sometimes I might end up buying used if I decide to wait on a title that I didn't pick up near launch. Mandatory DD would be just as bad as ant-used games. Looks like Sony and Microsoft are really trying their hardest to lose consumers. Add all this in to the inevitable fact that everything will also be more expensive next generation. Oh well, guess I'm sticking with my PS3 and X360 for now.
 
S

saunderez

Member
toddhunter said:
Again so where will they go?
Click to expand...

To a platform with cheaper games. To a platform that doesn't restrict their right to resale. There's bound to be one of the 2 in existence. If there's not I expect a massive resurgence in Indie Games.

To think that anti-used games is going to have a positive or no impact overall is ludicrous. It's the equivalent to the piracy argument 1 copy = 1 sale. I bought a 360 day 1 and have purchased over 100 games and thats 100 games more than I will be buying next generation if this comes to fruition.
 
S

SpokkX

Member
No backward comp would mean this would be the first Sony main console I would skip,.

All downloadable stuff down the drain?

I fully expect ms to be backward comp with live arcade/downloadable stuff at least
 
I

Infinite Justice

Member
StevieP said:
Close but the architecture is correct
Edit: to clarify - upcoming console parts are not going to be exact replicas of what's being released to consumers. Rather, they will be based on existing/near-future AMD designs customized in various ways to fit the needs of the customer (i.e. in this case Sony and MS).
Click to expand...

I will ask the stupid question here, is it powerful?
 
A

alr1ght

bish gets all the credit :)
I know we're still early in its lifecycle, but aas there been a download service that doesn't let you play the content on the successive device?
 
S

StevieP

Banned
Infinite Justice said:
I will ask the stupid question here, is it powerful?
Click to expand...

Well, think about a 4-6 core x86-64 CPU fed by 2GB of GDDR5 (maybe 4 depending on memory density on its time of release or any split-memory considerations where there are 2GB of much slower memory) and a 77xx-78xx level GPU in a closed environment.

The short answer is - it's much much more powerful than the consoles you're playing on now.
 
C

Combichristoffersen

Combovers don't work when there is no hair
StevieP said:
Well, think about a 4-6 core x86-64 CPU fed by 2GB of GDDR5 (maybe 4 depending on memory density on its time of release or any split-memory considerations where there are 2GB of much slower memory) and a 77xx-78xx level GPU in a closed environment.

The short answer is - it's much much more powerful than the consoles you're playing on now.
Click to expand...

But does it run Crysis?
 
K

Kasumi1970

my name is Ted
Rhazer Fusion said:
I can live with no BC, but if this anti-used games is factual, looks like I am most likely sitting out of next generation. I'm already not looking forward to it, but this only adds fuel to the fire. I never rent games, but sometimes I might end up buying used if I decide to wait on a title that I didn't pick up near launch. Mandatory DD would be just as bad as ant-used games. Looks like Sony and Microsoft are really trying their hardest to lose consumers. Add all this in to the inevitable fact that everything will also be more expensive next generation. Oh well, guess I'm sticking with my PS3 and X360 for now.
Click to expand...

I was thinking that also..........i don't like how next gen is sounding.......i will be sticking with this gen...i need to buy a ps3 and a lot of ps3 games to go with my 360.
 
K

KageMaru

Member
So it's because of that pastebin rumor that people are jumping to conclusions? It didn't sound probable IMO.

Globox_82 said:
reading this, there is no way nexbox is as powerful as pastebin wrote back in December.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't really put much faith in either rumor, they both sound like BS.
 
T

toddhunter

Member
saunderez said:
To a platform with cheaper games. To a platform that doesn't restrict their right to resale. There's bound to be one of the 2 in existence. If there's not I expect a massive resurgence in Indie Games.
Click to expand...

Bound to be? Why? It would be suicide for one to do it but have resale available on a competitors console. Hence one in all in, would be pretty dumb to suggest otherwise. Hard to switch to something else that doesn't exist. Indie Games? Yeah you can say you will switch but you will not. People want their call of duty or whatever the next big thing is. Even when they want Indie games, guess where people like to purchase them on PC? Traded in an indie game lately?

saunderez said:
To think that anti-used games is going to have a positive or no impact overall is ludicrous. It's the equivalent to the piracy argument 1 copy = 1 sale. I bought a 360 day 1 and have purchased over 100 games and thats 100 games more than I will be buying next generation if this comes to fruition.
Click to expand...

Good for you, but if you want to play games, and you are on a gaming forum, you will end up buying one of these consoles. It's easy to pretend to take a stand, not so easy when the games are released and you want to buy them. If you purchase over 100 games on the 360 I bet you purchased live as well to play those games online. Same arguments were wheeled out before that decision. Clearly that anti-consumer behaviour had no effect on your purchasing decisions, so it is hard to see why anything would change this time.
 
THE:MILKMAN

THE:MILKMAN

Member
StevieP said:
Close but the architecture is correct
Edit: to clarify - upcoming console parts are not going to be exact replicas of what's being released to consumers. Rather, they will be based on existing/near-future AMD designs customized in various ways to fit the needs of the customer (i.e. in this case Sony and MS).
Click to expand...

Cheers. I wonder if BboyDubC post's from last March were talking about this Specific CPU now......Shame he seems to have stopped posting.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
toddhunter said:
You can get mad, but it doesn't change the fact this is the direction things are going.
Click to expand...

The industry may be going the "anti-used game" route, but the people who keep claiming "Steam and Apple have sales!" and thinking it applies directly to the console gaming industry have no clue if it actually will happen.

First and foremost, let's just all agree that we've never seen any indication that the console gaming industry will ever manage sales like Steam/Apple. We've had downloadable full retail games for years now and we haven't seen anything close to what Steam/Apple do.

Next, let's throw Apple out of the comparison because the majority of games on the App Store are under $5. Again, not even close to comparable.

Finally, Steam does what it does because the PC industry and how PC games are priced (i.e., retail MSRP, timing of price drops, etc) is almost completely different than the console industry.
 
S

SquiddyCracker

Banned
The whole anti-used games dealio will either backfire on Sony and mark their end in the console race, or finally kill the shops that capitalize on used games.
Orbis is another odd-job name much like the Vita so I could see this being true.
 
C

coldfoot

Banned
There is no reason to use x86 architecture on a console, none at all. I think just because AMD is making the CPU, people assume x86. AMD can certainly design non-x86 CPU's, especially ones that Sony already owns the IP on. It'll be multicore PPC just like the current and next generation Xbox. They want it on the same process node as the GPU, so they can be integrated later in one chip and save costs.

No-HDD is true, it will be replaced with 16/32 GB flash. It will be an optional accessory just like the 360.
 
P

Plinko

Wildcard berths that can't beat teams without a winning record should have homefield advantage
toddhunter said:
Bound to be? Why? It would be suicide for one to do it but have resale available on a competitors console. Hence one in all in, would be pretty dumb to suggest otherwise.
Click to expand...

Or, one makes a smart business decision and decides NOT to do it, winning the hearts and minds of gamers around the world. I'm not seeing how that would be "dumb."
 
S

SolidusDave

Member
I really hope they will offer a slightly more expensive version with BC. Can't be that expensive to pack the PS3's CPU (would it even need the GPU, too?) in as well by 2013/2014.

Disc games could be emulated on PC at some point, but DD games are locked&lost in your PSN account and would be lost with the hardware.



I don't buy used games nor do I usually sell them, so this anti-used games thing would actually give me MORE for my money as I would basically get the DD version for free as well (and hopefully those would work on future Playstations via BC...).
Get the best of both worlds, some awesome CE/packing and play the game w/o the disc (though no forced full-installs would be preferred).

Most of the time I wait for some nice retail sales (UK online shops say hello), so I often pay far less than many of the used-buyers @gamestop etc. anyway.



However, they need to have the same sharing system like on the PS3.
That means lock it to your PSN account -> sign in with your account on friend's console -> can play the full game. Also, every other account on a PS4 should be able to play the game as well (on 3+ different PS4s at the same time).

That way this won't affect borrowing games from friends, showing games to friends etc.
 
B

BoilersFan23

Member
I don't get why people expect/want PS3 BC in the PS4. The cell is not a cheaply made CPU. While they could add to it for PS4, it would probably be expensive in design and probably wouldn't be developer friendly. By having someone else do the CPU (like AMD), R&D cost will be lower, more likely to be developer friendly (especially if they go with a more PC like environment), and the cost of the hardware will likely be cheaper. By trying to cram in PS3 hardware along with PS4 hardware would result in a larger console (to fit all the components), probably a higher power consumption, and a much higher pricetag (it would be like selling a PS3 and PS4 together). One of the reasons Sony ripped out PS2 BC was to save money on PS3 hardware costs. People would probably be more likely to buy a PS4 if it was priced at $300 compared to $500 just to include PS3 compatibility.

I actually think they'll be able to get some PSN games running, but probably not all which fully utilize the cell.

SolidusDave said:
I really hope they will offer a slightly more expensive version with BC. Can't be that expensive to pack the PS3's CPU (would it even need the GPU, too?) in as well by 2013/2014.
Click to expand...
It would definitely be more expensive. It would probably need the RSX since many games were designed to strictly run on it. If the PS2 was hard enough to emulate, I expect the PS3 would be even more difficult. I pretty much guarantee having BC would cost at least $150 more.
 
S

StevieP

Banned
coldfoot said:
There is no reason to use x86 architecture on a console, none at all.
Click to expand...

There are plenty. Including cost and unlimited backwards compatibility from now until the end of time, much as with Apple IOS and DX on Windows.

It'll be multicore PPC just like the current and next generation Xbox. They want it on the same process node as the GPU, so they can be integrated later in one chip and save costs.
Click to expand...

When was it ever confirmed that the next xbox was going PPC? Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Only the Wii U has been confirmed as having an IBM chip. Read my previous post above for clarification.
 
A

Angelus Errare

Banned
I feel bad for anyone who believes those pastebin specs =( Reading the specs again, I now feel really really bad, but at the sametime I want you to PM because I have this ocean front high rise condo unit to sell you located in Kentucky for $17,000 for 7,000 sq ft.
 
B

BlazingDarkness

Member
Sounds like a mixed bag to me
This generation has taught me to stay away from home consoles anywhere near launch, so I'll put this to the back of my mind for now
 
I

Infinite Justice

Member
Plinko said:
Or, one makes a smart business decision and decides NOT to do it, winning the hearts and minds of gamers around the world. I'm not seeing how that would be "dumb."
Click to expand...

How they will win the hearts and minds of gamers if the games they want wont be on it? :p


StevieP said:
Well, think about a 4-6 core x86-64 CPU fed by 2GB of GDDR5 (maybe 4 depending on memory density on its time of release or any split-memory considerations where there are 2GB of much slower memory) and a 77xx-78xx level GPU in a closed environment.

The short answer is - it's much much more powerful than the consoles you're playing on now.
Click to expand...

Well it was a stupid question :p

but thanks for answering anyway


StevieP said:
When was it ever confirmed that the next xbox was going PPC? Don't count your chickens before they hatch. Only the Wii U has been confirmed as having an IBM chip. Read my post above for clarification.
Click to expand...

StevieP said:
Close but the architecture is correct
Edit: to clarify - upcoming console parts are not going to be exact replicas of what's being released to consumers. Rather, they will be based on existing/near-future AMD designs customized in various ways to fit the needs of the customer (i.e. in this case Sony and MS).
Click to expand...


hmmmm @ the bolded.

are you implying MS has something similar (CPU/GPU) from AMD also
 
iceatcs

iceatcs

Junior Member
Hmm, I think they might have to lose the Playstation name. I can feel it.

Because no BC, SEN, Japan hate '4' etc....
 
T

toddhunter

Member
Plinko said:
Or, one makes a smart business decision and decides NOT to do it, winning the hearts and minds of gamers around the world. I'm not seeing how that would be "dumb."
Click to expand...

Sony: We are taking a stand and allowing use game sales!
Publishers: Well microsoft isn't, so we will just release our games on that platform
Sony: But can we still have call of duty?
Publishers: No.
Sony: Well...we are still going to take a stand

They don't want hearts and minds, they want gamers wallets.

As for not comparing steam and apple to the console industry, your points are valid but you are assuming the console industry will not change. However in the face of competition It will have to, and it will not be away from successful and proven business models.
 
mysteriousmage09

mysteriousmage09

Member
Raoh said:
No Second Hand PS3 Market? (MAY 24, 2006 )
http://kotaku.com/176131/no-second-hand-ps3-market


Sony: Illegal to sell used PS3 games (2005)
http://forum.teamxbox.com/showthread.php?t=445796



PlayStation 3 won't play used games? (Nov 8th 200)
http://www.joystiq.com/2005/11/08/playstation-3-wont-play-used-games/

Another reason not to buy a PS3 (25th May 2006,).
http://www.kendo-world.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-10279.html


It's like deja vu
Click to expand...

And /thread. Same shit different console.
 
S

saunderez

Member
Plinko said:
Or, one makes a smart business decision and decides NOT to do it, winning the hearts and minds of gamers around the world. I'm not seeing how that would be "dumb."
Click to expand...

Exactly my point. If any company decides to be consumer friendly in a market full of anti-consumer sentiment they will gain marketshare. Mutually assured destruction doesn't work when you can't control all the players in the game.
 
C

coldfoot

Banned
StevieP said:
There are plenty. Including cost and unlimited backwards compatibility from now until the end of time, much as with Apple IOS and DX on Windows.
Click to expand...
You are wrong on cost, x86 is more expensive because it requires more die area and is not as power efficient. It's also obvious that Sony doesn't really care about BC anymore. x86 only belongs to PC's running heavy OS's, and servers. You are also hostage to AMD for manufacturing the chip since you can't make your own x86 chip in the foundry of your choice unless you license it from Intel.

StevieP said:
When was it ever confirmed that the next xbox was going PPC?
Click to expand...
http://semiaccurate.com/2012/01/18/xbox-nextxbox-720-chips-in-production/
It's also the most logical choice for BC with 360, which is PPC as well.

For BC, Sony can certainly make a Thunderbolt/USB3 dock like they do with the Vaio Z and put the Cell + RSX in it, and sell it for $99-199.
 
S

sp3000

Member
Mush said:
Can someone tell me why they're abandoning Nvida?
Click to expand...

I'm happy they are. Nvidia now is forced to promote PC gaming, because they have no stake in any of the consoles. This means they will continue to put pressure on developers to release PC ports that actually take advantage of hardware. I doubt Crytek would have released their patch that allowed DX11 if Nvidia hadn't paid them.

saunderez said:
Exactly my point. If any company decides to be consumer friendly in a market full of anti-consumer sentiment they will gain marketshare. Mutually assured destruction doesn't work when you can't control all the players in the game.
Click to expand...

Actually when most consumers are will to spend 60 bucks every year for games that look and play the same(Madden and COD), this isn't true.

People on this forum seem to think that they are the majority of customers. Most customers don't care about all these background issues. They want to be able to buy the latest Call of Duty, put it in the drive, and play it online. As soon as the next one comes out, the old one sits collecting dust. backward compatibility and used games have no meaning to the majority of customers. That's just the sad truth.
 
Vol5

Vol5

Member
I call bullshit to the entire article. There's no way Sony, MS or anybody else would implement an anti-used system in their console. It would kill a massive chunk of the market if those used games are used as credit for new ones. I can't believe Sony would be that mis-informed. New games still sell....they sell in massive numbers and will continue to.

Adding a system that stops you from taking it around a friends house or selling on your game essentially shits on your rights to do what you want with your property. Fuck that if true.
 
A

AlexBasch

Member
Okay then. Only reason I still have a console is Rock Band and some exclusive games on the Xbox, if they pull this shit on the "720" I'll do a full switch to PC, I'm playing on that most of the time.

I don't care if they release ZOMFG AWSUM exclusives, the whole anti-used games is a disgrace. I almost buy all my games new, but I won't support this.
 
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