I remember you guys on a vidoc saying how cool and fun Armor Lock was!
NEVAR FORGET!
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Halo |OT3| Remember Reach?
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
I remember you guys on a vidoc saying how cool and fun Armor Lock was!
NEVAR FORGET!
I agree, camo is worse than armor lock at times. I also agree, you should know what AA your enemy has at all times.
E3's what, 3-4 months before Halo 4's launch? you'd think they'd show something by then. It'd give a lot of people more to go on than just "trust us", including a large number of people here.
I see what you did there.
And yes, I want more background info on 343's approach to armor ability design.
How about you hold the back button to check the score and next to each players gamertag, theres a symbol representing the AA they have.
I was making a very slight exaggeration for effect. In some ways, the mix is worse.
The very fact that armor lock has been removed means 343 is (hopefully) applying a different thought process to the design of AA's. I'd like to hear more about how that thought process is going to yield different results than what we got in Reach.
This is not a rant or anything, it's a polite request.
Those are the ones I'm referring to in addition to SWAT, snipers, etc.. which aren't exactly standard gametypes but certainly ones Halo players should be "used to"... especially considering Frankie already mentioned Team Snipers.
I'm not complaining or anything.. in fact I was responding to someone else's comment about why he only mentioned CTF which I agreed was an odd thing to mention by itself.
It would be the same if he said "oh by the way, we're bringing Slayer back." Yeah, we know..? I get the part about him wanting to tease about the changes coming to CTF in particular, but we know there will be changes coming to Slayer as well (as we saw the points system in the reveal vids).
Basically, just talking about nothing at this point since there's nothing to really talk about.
I have a lot of concerns about that video. Forerunner vision sounds like a ridiculous idea no matter how you spin it. It sounds like something that was put into campaign and then rolled into multiplayer just because it was possible.
I also don't care if the multiplayer feels the same as campaign, I want it to be as good as it can even if that means diverging from the features available in campaign.
However, I do like the fact that he says they're trying to make AAs to counter each other.
I also like that they're polishing the multiplayer modes, clearer objectives, supporting actions added to objective modes (I'm not sure what this means yet for sure - perhaps simply vehicular support, controlling areas, opening gates, things like that).
I await further details, Frankie. I expect them tomorrow.
I also don't care if the multiplayer feels the same as campaign, I want it to be as good as it can even if that means diverging from the features available in campaign.
However, I do like the fact that he says they're trying to make AAs to counter each other.
I also like that they're polishing the multiplayer modes, clearer objectives, supporting actions added to objective modes (I'm not sure what this means yet for sure - perhaps simply vehicular support, controlling areas, opening gates, things like that).
I await further details, Frankie. I expect them tomorrow.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
In less then 50 days, we'll have a bunch of gameplay videos from E3, that will either confirm all our worst fears or the trust was misplaced. In the end, nobody is gonna remember this speculation phase, waiting for tidbits of tidbits of info from Frankie/Ellis and wondering how AAs are gonna improve/fuck up Halo this time around.
Poker Face
Member
It would be nice, but you're not going to want to hold the back button before you start an engagement multiple times in a match to make sure that you aren't running into any surprises, are you? The jetpack in Reach has a nice, unique visual profile that makes it easy to see that someone has it, and something like that could provide what would otherwise be a clumsy mess of UI.
The Henery
Member
Do you think Armour Abilities (including sprint) were a good addition to the Halo sandbox in Reach?
If so, what specifically do you think they added that you'd like to preserve in Halo 4?
Haha I'm pretty sure you and David posting here is what's keeping me sane. As long as you guys are having a blast playing it, then I still believe.
Although the wait for more info/footage is killing me.
And trust me, I'm gonna be playing the hell out of this. I'm not much of a fan of Reach, but it's still better than its competition. I think Halo 4 will be better than Reach. I don't see 343 making the same mistakes that were made with Reach. Armor Lock's death supports that idea.
I think that's proven to be true with certain AAs. Obviously we play MLG where AAs are pick ups and that works great. However, those were for Evade, Jetpack and at a time Armor lock. It's going to depend on how they're implemented im H4. There will be new maps, new AAs all together. We all have sprint. We can't either way for sure but I do you bring up a valid concern.
LAST NIGHT'S episode, man? Seriously? For fuck's sake.
Eddie Smith put some of his CEA art back up on his site, and there are two pieces I hadn't seen before
OuterWorldVoice said:
See the problem is that the changes in Reach sounded even better on paper than what we've heard of Halo 4's changes... and they were almost unanimously bad.
Bloom? Didn't sound bad on paper. I played Shadowrun and thought it was okay. Armor Lock - a little OP but sounded like it could make for some fun gameplay if implemented properly. Sprint? Sure, that'd be fun. A precision weapon like the DMR sounded good. Jetpacks? Never liked the idea personally, knew that they'd break map flow.
Put them altogether and Reach was amazingly frustrating to play.
And those were with ideas that sounded good on paper. I'm extra frightened of ideas that sound bad on paper.
I don't think it will be that difficult. You have like 10 seconds before the game starts to memorize which guy has what. You also see that screen automatically each time you die. I also think it's another communication skill that would work in competitive play. You're on respawn and you call out that Snipedown changed his loadout to feature Hologram now. It makes a difference immediately on how you play the rest of the match. How you play against Snipedown.
bobs...onGaf
Member
As someone who works in software development I find it extremely hard to believe that a requirements document full of ambiguous features would have gained approval. What im trying to ask really is, if the features worried you so much on paper, how the hell did they get to implementation stage?
I haven't been doing it long, but I just don't see any possible way a PM would ever say, "Oh I hate the sound of all of those features, here's a budget for development to throw them in anyway".
Its hard to trust when all we have to look at seems so bad and the official line seems so blurry.
Honestly, after I posted it I realised it could be a spoiler but by then I'd been quoted. Really man, I apologise, and for what it's worth the episode was so great for a multitude of other reasons that when it's done I'm sure you won't be pissed off I spoiled that specific scene.
I think especially now with everyone having Sprint people will start abusing AAs more. Right now people pick Sprint 90% of the time. Sprint is not nearly as offensive (as much as I hate it) as the other AAs. With Sprint being default I can see AAs becoming a lot more overwhelming than in Reach. Can you imagine if people could not choose Sprint in Reach? (forget about MLG for a second) Jetpack and Active Camo everywhere. That doesn't exactly sound appealing.
Now, I obviously haven't played Halo 4 yet and we only have a tiny bit of information but fact is that AAs will be abused more. To what extend? That remains to be seen.
Well said, something that some people in here seem to forget sometimes.
RIP Halo.
You're right, and I should have been more clear. I like the idea but want an additional visual layer on top of it so you don't have to check a menu even though you are able to and it would be easier to in many cases. You can check using that when not in combat or when respawning, but then in addition you can scope on a guy from across the map, see some contraption on his player model, and be able to say "oh, he's got cloak and is going this way here" even if you don't know which particular guy it is. This is probably less useful in an MLG setting where the team is shouting information into each others' ear holes all game and where you're more aware of which enemy player is which.
Personally? I liked them, except Armor Lock, but always felt like the ambiguity and randomness of what I could be encountering was scary. Like, will I get a game full of holograms? Will I only be fighting Jetpackers? Etc. Of course I say that as someone who uses Sprint, almost exclusively. If it were rock, paper, scissors, I always used rock, no matter what.
Halo 4 will feel different. For lots of reasons.
Hydranockz
Member
That struck me as odd too. At least 2 player online is still confirmed. You cannot play Reach with 3 or 4 players online for anything other than a complete laugh.
What reasons? Come on, we're all friends here.
"Paper" is not a literal term. Implementation and tools can be instantenous, or quick and iteration is constant. Nobody writes a list fo features and puts it on the production slate. They try, test, prototype, hone and implement. And LOTS of things do not make the cut either as ideas, or after failed prototyping. That's just how it works.
Poker Face
Member
i don't understand why frankie doesn't do 98% of the interviews.
OK, thanks. I guess my distate for them stemmed from my belief that Halo should be about pure player parity from the get go, with any advantage plundered from around the map. I remember having a discussion prior to Reach, in fact around the Morello leak, where I explained my distaste at not knowing exactly what my opponent was capable of. I didn't like that one person could do something completely unexpected, and untelegraphed. I guess in that respect sprint won't be as much of an issue for me.
That's how I've always seen Halo, and it's why I personally can't gel with Halo 4 on paper. I'm openly hoping the game does play great, and I'm rooting for it 100%, but I want to be as critical beforehand as I can be, because last time it felt like I'd been punched in the gut when I finally got my hands on Reach.
At least this time, if the game does have a similarly sour punch then at least my gut is tensed tight and ready for the blow.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
No other details are being offered, but we've heard from reliable sources close to Microsoft that the team may have finalized a release date for Master Chief's return: Tuesday, November 6th, 2012.
The Henery
Member
Brad Welch - Lead Multiplayer Designer for Halo 4
"Cool abilities"
"People are building their playstyles around the armour abilities"
...
Camo better be radically different to how it is in Reach. The radar jammer has to be the most obnoxious element because it's the one AA that affects other players abilities and not just their own.
'building their playstyle'
Yea the playstyle with camo in Reach slows down gameplay; 343 state they want to speed up gameplay. I don't see how they could balance Camo as an AA to the point it would speed up gameplay.
"Cool abilities"
"People are building their playstyles around the armour abilities"
...
Camo better be radically different to how it is in Reach. The radar jammer has to be the most obnoxious element because it's the one AA that affects other players abilities and not just their own.
'building their playstyle'
Yea the playstyle with camo in Reach slows down gameplay; 343 state they want to speed up gameplay. I don't see how they could balance Camo as an AA to the point it would speed up gameplay.
Doesn't he?
Where's that from?
Do you have a link or what's the source?
bobs...onGaf
Member
Fair play, I should have kept in mind the workflow in the kinds of places I work would be a LOT less dynamic than somewhere that makes games, I still find it odd that something like Forerunner Vision would have been given the development time to even get to a basepoint to be iterated on, but it would be foolish for me to try and build up an argument based on my flimsy assumptions and lack of knowledge.
I find it odd, and cant quite trust, but hopefully gameplay videos will change that.
Hydranockz
Member
LOL one line posts are so informative
Elaborate please, so at least we might believe you.
The Librarian
Banned
Very bold release date if true. Honestly, even if Halo comes out on the losing side, the thought of it going head to head with Call of Duty has me excited.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Same day as Black Ops 2? Hm..
Poker Face
Member
the midnight launch might be slightly...um...awkward
Is it really? Ballsy if that's the real release date then.
You've watched that video and still need an explanation?LOL one line posts are so informative
Elaborate please, so at least we might believe you.
How about both? That's probably the best solution.
Really? I think that with everyone having Sprint, the other armor abilities will have a lesser effect on the match then they do in Reach. We saw it in MLG before v7 when everyone had sprint. You could deal with Evade easier. You could sprint away if evade puts your in a bad position and you could also give chase. Against jetpack, you could run into a building or behind a different rock more quickly. It's when MLG removed sprint but kept Evade for that short period of time that Evade became a glaring problem to most.
I also think you helped proved my point when you asked, "Can you imagine if people could not choose Sprint in Reach? JetPack and Active camo everywhere" Exactly, it would be worse than if we could choose sprint. And now it's even better that everyone does have sprint.
Makes me think about the controls though. What's the Sprint button? what's the AA button? Do you have to toggle between them? Which button is that? Is there a cool down for either? Can I use them in conjunction. Subtle details that could make a big difference.
Agreed. I think both would be a good solution. Although, I do they're not distractive, or change the hit boxes in anyway. I don't think Jetpack does, just want to be clear about that.