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dirtmonkey37 · Jul 11, 2006

davepoobond said:
yep!

coupled with HD-DVD at least

I don't think they should put the HD DVD in there but definitely the HDMI in all Premiums starting this fall. They could also make a little external switcher/thingamagingy that can allow older 360's to use HDMI ports to play their 360's (because the motherboard is theoretically capable)

Sony added a network adaptor into the PS2 Slim which "****ed" all the early adopters (who had to buy a network adaptor seperately). They also screwed over people who wanted to buy HDD's.

dirtmonkey37 · Jul 11, 2006

Also, it's not like HDMI is required (not until '09 supposedly) so even if they do start including it, early adopters can buy the external add on if they must have HDMI (which is supposedly not even that different, to the human eye, from component) or they can just stick with S-video/component.

Yeah, and something smart that MS can do is include it in Core systems as well.

But how about new people who buy the 360 whose TV's don't support HDMI? MS can include both cables (component + HDMI) in future Premium and Core 360's. Sure, it'll add another 5 dollars to the cost of the machines, but it'll help make them future proof.

OG_Original Gamer · Jul 11, 2006

The current XBox 360 WILL NOT be getting a new "built-in" HD-DVD player, however the new XBox "360" AV will.

This is a new unit, to exist alongside of the current XBox 360 line. New features:

Plays All XBox 360 titles
250 gb HD
HD PVR functionality
Live Anywhere support - Server Support
Wireless Hub "Built-In"
Built-In HD-DVD player
HDMI Output
Connection to other Live Anywhere "Xbox" Branded devices - even over internet.

Out for this Christmas to compete with Sony PS3 - pricing undetermined but within $100 of the PS3 is assumed. (Hopefully below)

AVS forum

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=697475

Press release Belkin

http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesnews2006/news20060614-05.html

This Switch easily solves the problem of insufficient HDMI inputs caused by the quick and widespread adoption of HDMI in the marketplace. High-definition components that commonly feature the HDMI connector include TVs, up-converting DVD players, cable/satellite boxes, entertainment computers, the newly released Blu-ray(R) and HD-DVD players, and upcoming game consoles, PlayStation(R) 3 and Xbox(R) 360 (HDMI connection to come). People who own multiple digital-video devices can avoid a bottleneck at the HDTV's single HDMI port with this Switch.

Originally posted by Nelg on B3d

Mmmkay · Jul 11, 2006

I was just in the process of posting this

The first part seems to be some unsourced fanfiction from a poster at AVS, the second part is interesting though. The original press release by Belkin is here:
http://www.belkin.com/pressroom/releases/uploads/06_01_06HDMISwitch.html

It's dated the 1st of June.

Stinkles · Jul 11, 2006

Mmmkay said:
I was just in the process of posting this

The first part seems to be some unsourced fanfiction from a poster at AVS, the second part is interesting though. The original press release by Belkin is here:
http://www.belkin.com/pressroom/releases/uploads/06_01_06HDMISwitch.html

It's dated the 1st of June.

And MS already said they will bring HDMI to 360 in some fashion, so maybe Belkin is just going on that?

JB1981 · Jul 11, 2006

OG_Original Gamer said:
The current XBox 360 WILL NOT be getting a new "built-in" HD-DVD player, however the new XBox "360" AV will.

This is a new unit, to exist alongside of the current XBox 360 line. New features:

Plays All XBox 360 titles
250 gb HD
HD PVR functionality
Live Anywhere support - Server Support
Wireless Hub "Built-In"
Built-In HD-DVD player
HDMI Output
Connection to other Live Anywhere "Xbox" Branded devices - even over internet.

Out for this Christmas to compete with Sony PS3 - pricing undetermined but within $100 of the PS3 is assumed. (Hopefully below)

AVS forum

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=697475

Press release Belkin

http://hiddenwires.co.uk/resourcesnews2006/news20060614-05.html

This Switch easily solves the problem of insufficient HDMI inputs caused by the quick and widespread adoption of HDMI in the marketplace. High-definition components that commonly feature the HDMI connector include TVs, up-converting DVD players, cable/satellite boxes, entertainment computers, the newly released Blu-ray(R) and HD-DVD players, and upcoming game consoles, PlayStation(R) 3 and Xbox(R) 360 (HDMI connection to come). People who own multiple digital-video devices can avoid a bottleneck at the HDTV's single HDMI port with this Switch.

Originally posted by Nelg on B3d

Wow. I want that.

Btw, guys, PeterS at AVS is not some nobody who posts 'unsourced fanfiction.' He's a pretty well respected member of the site and just recently worked very closely with Westinghouse on a firmware fix for their 42" 1080p line.

Lord Error · Jul 11, 2006

$500 for all that (HD-DVD + 250GB drive)?. A very good deal, which would probably mean MS drops prices on regular models too.

wasting · Jul 11, 2006

It better be black!

jjasper · Jul 11, 2006

OG_Original Gamer said:
The current XBox 360 WILL NOT be getting a new "built-in" HD-DVD player, however the new XBox "360" AV will.

This is a new unit, to exist alongside of the current XBox 360 line. New features:

Plays All XBox 360 titles
250 gb HD
HD PVR functionality
Live Anywhere support - Server Support
Wireless Hub "Built-In"
Built-In HD-DVD player
HDMI Output
Connection to other Live Anywhere "Xbox" Branded devices - even over internet.

Out for this Christmas to compete with Sony PS3 - pricing undetermined but within $100 of the PS3 is assumed. (Hopefully below)

How in the world could they price that thing below a PS3?

truffleshuffle83 · Jul 11, 2006

id spend 600 on it considering it has an HD PVR and built in HDDVD and a 250 gig HD. but all that was probably speculation

Bad_Boy · Jul 11, 2006

Marconelly said:
$500 for all that (HD-DVD + 250GB drive)?. A very good deal, which would probably mean MS drops prices on regular models too.

You think they could sell a hd-dvd/250gig version for 500 when the dvd/20gig version goes currently for 400? Not even counting hdmi, pvr and wifi capibilties.

the only things i can think of are...

+

Mmmkay · Jul 11, 2006

Stinkles said:
And MS already said they will bring HDMI to 360 in some fashion, so maybe Belkin is just going on that?

Good point. Heck I even mentioned the quote earlier in the thread. But it's a bit disingenuous of Belkin to advertise the feature the way they did unless they were aware of actual plans to implement it. Jus sayin.

GhaleonEB · Jul 11, 2006

I think MS would be better served NOT trying to confuse the hell out of their customers.

Lord Error · Jul 11, 2006

Microsoft has been really frugal with Xbox 360 so far, saving costs and overpricing peripherals whenever they could. This would be a huge deviation from that, to be honest, if they sell HDDVD+HD PVR+250GB HDD for ~$500.

Flo_Evans · Jul 11, 2006

I find that really hard to believe... considering no one even makes a 2.5" 250GB hard drive, and a 160GB 2.5" drive will run you $200.

edit: I suppose it could be an all new form factor and use a standard 3.5" HDD, but this all seems highly unlikely.... IMHO MS should focus on selling the 360, not comming out with new models.

Big Takeover · Jul 11, 2006

Interesting. Maybe that is part of the reason why Xboxes have all but disappeared. They are being packaged into a new box.

I'm still taking this rumor with a grain of salt though.

snatches · Jul 11, 2006

I call bullshit on this news. The only way they will change the config is to possibly increase the storage capacity of the HDD.

Of course, I thought the HD DVD drive was a stupid ****ing idea too, so who knows.

DenogginizerOS · Jul 11, 2006

GhaleonEB said:
I think MS would be better served NOT trying to confuse the hell out of their customers.

Amen!

Mmmkay · Jul 11, 2006

JB1981 said:
Btw, guys, PeterS at AVS is not some nobody who posts 'unsourced fanfiction.' He's a pretty well respected member of the site and just recently worked very closely with Westinghouse on a firmware fix for their 42" 1080p line.

Perhaps, but he said himself that he wasn't going to present a source. And the price indication itself "hopefully $100 less than the PS3" is clearly fiction for the hardware included

Bad_Boy · Jul 11, 2006

Flo_Evans said:
I find that really hard to believe... considering no one even makes a 2.5" 250GB hard drive, and a 160GB 2.5" drive will run you $200.

Well they could make some design changes obviously so regular 3.5" IDE/Sata wouldnt be out of the question. But even those run you around 100.

Mmmkay said:
Perhaps, but he said himself that he wasn't going to present a source. And the price indication itself "hopefully $100 less than the PS3" is clearly fiction for the hardware included

I took the price quote as...100 more or less than ps3, in reach. Meaning somewhere around 500-700.
But I have been known to be wrong before. :lol

DenogginizerOS · Jul 11, 2006

nevermind. addressed above

snatches · Jul 11, 2006

I just can't believe that MS would screw up such a big percieved advantage like they have with price. Why release a console that competes with PS3 for $599 when as far as games go they have one that competes for $399?

Stupid.

Raistlin · Jul 12, 2006

I call bullshit on the HDD size, and likely the PVR functionality.

As far as HD-DVD, I can only see it happening under one condition (at least this soon) ... if Toshiba is willing to eat a nice chunk of the cost in order to establish the format. In that case, MS has little to lose in bringing out a new version (cost-wise).

Raistlin · Jul 12, 2006

BTW everyone ...

While I do believe an HDMI 360 is happening, it is possible the Belkin press release is simply related to the official 360 HDMI cable you can purchase in Japan right now.

To my knoweldge, it simply digitizes the component output.

sharukins · Jul 12, 2006

gamefront.de

The Famitsu communicates that the external Hp-DVD-drive assembly of the Xbox 360 will possess the H.264 Decoding of ATI.

what does this mean? can anyone explain?

Shogmaster · Jul 12, 2006

sharukins said:
gamefront.de

what does this mean? can anyone explain?

Apparently there is an ATi designed chip inside the external drive that assists in decoding H.264 codec, but that's me trying to decipher that mess of a translation.

sharukins · Jul 12, 2006

Shogmaster said:
Apparently there is an ATi designed chip inside the external drive that assists in decoding H.264 codec, but that's me trying to decipher that mess of a translation.

i thoguht it was the ati chip in 360

Shogmaster · Jul 12, 2006

sharukins said:
i thoguht it was the ati chip in 360

That's not how that sentence reads. It seems to indicate that there's another ATi chip inside the add on unit: "external Hp-DVD-drive assembly of the Xbox 360 will possess...".

sharukins · Jul 12, 2006

more info

ATI Technologies (TSX: ATY)(NASDAQ: ATYT) today announced that Microsoft Corp. has chosen ATI's H.264 decoder for the Xbox 360(TM) HD DVD player, bringing users sharper, more true-to-life visuals and smoother playback of high-definition content. HD DVDs encoded using one of three approved codecs deliver up to six times the resolution of traditional DVDs all on a single disc. Built on ATI's Avivo(TM) technology, the decoder used for the Xbox 360 HD DVD player brings to bear ATI's considerable multimedia know-how to ensure gamers, home theatre buffs, and casual viewers alike get a more perfect picture from the H.264 format.

"The Xbox 360 gives consumers access to a world of high-definition games and video content through Xbox Live Marketplace. With the new Xbox 360 HD DVD player using ATI's decoder technology, we're giving consumers the choice to playback the latest in high-definition movies," said Todd Holmdahl, corporate vice president of Xbox 360 hardware development. "HD DVD brings new meaning to the term home theater. When people see the visual clarity and realism that Microsoft and ATI are delivering through the Xbox 360 this holiday, they will be blown away."

http://news.moneycentral.msn.com/provider/providerarticle.asp?Feed=MW&Date=20060712&ID=5860005

mrklaw · Jul 12, 2006

WTF?

So is this thing going to be an entire HDDVD player, complete with decoder and ram?

If it does that, it starts to look like it'll have a video out, as USB won't be quick enough for decoded video+audio will it?

So the X360 will just be a control interface?

This is sounding odder and odder

sharukins · Jul 12, 2006

mrklaw said:
WTF?

So is this thing going to be an entire HDDVD player, complete with decoder and ram?

If it does that, it starts to look like it'll have a video out, as USB won't be quick enough for decoded video+audio will it?

So the X360 will just be a control interface?

This is sounding odder and odder

you want to talk about odd? check this out:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=697475

The current XBox 360 WILL NOT be getting a new "built-in" HD-DVD player, however the new XBox "360" AV will.

This is a new unit, to exist alongside of the current XBox 360 line. New features:

Plays All XBox 360 titles
250 gb HD
HD PVR functionality
Live Anywhere support - Server Support
Wireless Hub "Built-In"
Built-In HD-DVD player
HDMI Output
Connection to other Live Anywhere "Xbox" Branded devices - even over internet.

Out for this Christmas to compete with Sony PS3 - pricing undetermined but within $100 of the PS3 is assumed. (Hopefully below)

http://www.1up.com/do/newsStory?cId=3152041

and then this

http://www.belkin.com/pressroom/releases/uploads/06_01_06HDMISwitch.html

This Switch easily solves the problem of insufficient HDMI inputs caused by the quick and widespread adoption of HDMI in the marketplace. High-definition components that commonly feature the HDMI connector include TVs, up-converting DVD players, cable/satellite boxes, entertainment computers, the newly released Blu-ray(R) and HD-DVD players, and upcoming game consoles, PlayStation(R) 3 and Xbox(R) 360 (HDMI connection to come). People who own multiple digital-video devices can avoid a bottleneck at the HDTV's single HDMI port with this Switch.

Mmmkay · Jul 12, 2006

Okay, wtf?

So the HD-DVD drive is going to have a video output now? But it's only for H.264? There was always the question whether the 360 could handle H.264 but what are the implications for this on an external HD-DVD drive? Will the drive be sending back recompressed decoded frame data? I don't think I like the sound of that one.

sharukins · Jul 12, 2006

Mmmkay said:
Okay, wtf?

So the HD-DVD drive is going to have a video output now? But it's only for H.264? There was always the question whether the 360 could handle H.264 but what are the implications for this on an external HD-DVD drive? Will the drive be sending back recompressed decoded frame data? I don't think I like the sound of that one.

H264 is Mpeg4

Mmmkay · Jul 12, 2006

sharukins said:
H264 is Mpeg4

No H.264 is Mpeg 4 AVC and it is very process intensive unlike the other codecs available.

gofreak · Jul 12, 2006

I always thought Avivo was just GPU-accelerated MPEG4/H.264 decoding i.e. a software technology, not another chip. I think that release is just saying that Avivo will be used for that decoding on Xenos.

sharukins · Jul 12, 2006

Mmmkay said:
No H.264 is Mpeg 4 AVC and it is very process intensive unlike the other codecs available.

so isnt H.264 compatible with Mpeg2 (im dumb regarding this info)

Shogmaster · Jul 12, 2006

gofreak said:
I always thought Avivo was just GPU-accelerated MPEG4/H.264 decoding i.e. a software technology, not another chip. I think that release is just saying that Avivo will be used for that decoding on Xenos.

Probably, but that trans is worded really badly to convey that (welcome to babelfish I guess).

sharukins said:
so isnt H.264 compatible with Mpeg2 (im dumb regarding this info)

I don't know what you mean by "compatible". H.264 is a really computationally intensive MPEG 4 variant. MPEG 2 is old and stinky. "Compatible" is a weird word in this context especially since MPEG 4's many variants are quite different from each other (XViD, DiVX, WMV, on and on...).

Mmmkay · Jul 12, 2006

gofreak said:
I always thought Avivo was just GPU-accelerated MPEG4/H.264 decoding i.e. a software technology, not another chip. I think that release is just saying that Avivo will be used for that decoding on Xenos.

D'oh that's probably it isn't it. They are confirming that Avivo is supported by the Xbox 360 and will be used in conjunction with the HD-DVD addon. It doesn't half make it sound like there is dedicated silicon on that drive though :/

sharukins: No.

tahrikmili · Jul 12, 2006

AVIVO is indeed ATI's software H264 decoding solution, it's pretty fast and utilizes the GPU instead of the CPU to decode.. What I understood from the PR is either a) Xenos will use AVIVO to decode H264 content on HD-DVDs played on the add-on, b) MS is using ATI's TV Wonder HD chips in the HD-DVD add-on in conjunction with AVIVO to offer HD-DVD playback.

The plot thickens..

mrklaw · Jul 12, 2006

surely Xenos would be able to do that as well (if not better) than a dedicated=expensive chip in the drive?

And what about the other codecs and sound? eg MPEG2, VC1?

mrklaw · Jul 12, 2006

ATI Technologies (TSX: ATY)(NASDAQ: ATYT) today announced that Microsoft Corp. has chosen ATI's H.264 decoder for the Xbox 360(TM) HD DVD player, bringing users sharper, more true-to-life visuals and smoother playback of high-definition content.

doesn't say hardware or software. So this can mean AVIVO

Built on ATI's Avivo(TM) technology, the decoder used for the Xbox 360 HD DVD player brings to bear ATI's considerable multimedia know-how to ensure gamers, home theatre buffs, and casual viewers alike get a more perfect picture from the H.264 format.

again, says built on Avivo. The 'decoder' used for X360 could be just a 360 compiled version of the PC software solution, using the hardware of Xenos.

Mmmkay · Jul 12, 2006

mrklaw said:
surely Xenos would be able to do that as well (if not better) than a dedicated=expensive chip in the drive?

And what about the other codecs and sound? eg MPEG2, VC1?

There needs to be dedicated silicon to enable hardware acceleration of H.264. It was never announced that Xenos supports Avivo, but since it was present in all R5xx + hardware it would not be surprising that it existed in silicon for Xenos. VC1 is already supported as it is used as the default video format for the 360. Mpeg2 doesn't really require hardware assistance since it's the least processor intensive of the three. It goes without saying that it is supported since the 360 plays back DVD's.

Avivo still requires software to utilise the dedicated hardware (like how Nvidia's PureVideo needs a special decoder installed) so it will need to be supported in the software based HD-DVD playback engine.

[edit]None of this speculation would have happened if sharukins had just included the very next paragraph in the article:

To enable the smoothest H.264 video playback possible, the ATI decoder technology makes use of the Xbox 360's graphics processing unit (GPU) to accelerate video processing. The unified shader design of the GPU enables high-end processing techniques such as comb filtering and automatic gain control to ensure that video artifacts such as blockiness or color bands don't disrupt playback.

Big Takeover · Jul 12, 2006

This is what was expected. It pretty much assures that the drive won't have any video out capabilities (HDMI), not that it was much of a possibility anyways.

Stinkles · Jul 12, 2006

Onix said:
BTW everyone ...

While I do believe an HDMI 360 is happening, it is possible the Belkin press release is simply related to the official 360 HDMI cable you can purchase in Japan right now.

To my knoweldge, it simply digitizes the component output.

What?

Raistlin · Jul 12, 2006

Stinkles said:
What?

My work's firewall will not let me go to Liksang, so I can't get the link.

Anyway, there is an official MS HDMI cable there - that I'm under the impression it's alredy for sale? If that is the case, everyone is under the impression it contains an A/D converter and doesn't offer 'real' HDMI.

I'm stating if that is the case, then the Belkin press release may be referring to that cable, and is therefore unrelated to the true HDMI we're talking about here.

Mmmkay · Jul 12, 2006

Onix said:
My work's firewall will not let me go to Liksang, so I can't get the link.

Anyway, there is an official MS HDMI cable there - that I'm under the impression it's alredy for sale? If that is the case, everyone is under the impression it contains an A/D converter and doesn't offer 'real' HDMI.

I'm stating if that is the case, then the Belkin press release may be referring to that cable, and is therefore unrelated to the true HDMI we're talking about here.

It's not for sale yet.

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=319&products_id=8540&

And as with the last time it was brought up:

Showcase stunning Xbox 360 high-definition graphics with the component connection on your HDTV. Play high-quality audio with the included stereo connection or use the optical audio port for digital sound.

The product description is identical to the one for Microsoft's Component cable.

http://www.lik-sang.com/info.php?category=319&products_id=7772&

Showcase stunning Xbox 360 high-definition graphics with the component connection on your HDTV. Play high-quality audio with the included stereo connection or use the optical audio port for digital sound.

Raistlin · Jul 12, 2006

Excellent ... thanks for the clarification, I hadn't heard this update yet.

Look like Belkin may have let the cat out of the bag :lol

jetjevons · Jul 12, 2006

Onix said:
My work's firewall will not let me go to Liksang, so I can't get the link.

Anyway, there is an official MS HDMI cable there - that I'm under the impression it's alredy for sale? If that is the case, everyone is under the impression it contains an A/D converter and doesn't offer 'real' HDMI.

I'm stating if that is the case, then the Belkin press release may be referring to that cable, and is therefore unrelated to the true HDMI we're talking about here.

I don't suppose I'm ever going to get a DVI cable for 360 huh?

Shogmaster · Jul 12, 2006

jetjevons said:
I don't suppose I'm ever going to get a DVI cable for 360 huh?

You could get a HDMI to DVi coverter if that HDMI ever happens. But it's smarter to just embrace VGA output. It's fantastic.

jetjevons · Jul 12, 2006

Shogmaster said:
You could get a HDMI to DVi coverter if that HDMI ever happens. But it's smarter to just embrace VGA output. It's fantastic.

My TV doesn't have a VGA input. Only component and DVI. Sigh.

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