Nostremitus
Member
I believe the second Nintendo Direct had a channel with English subtitles, or has sleep deprivation started taking its toll?
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Wii U Community Thread
- Thread starter Metroid Hunter
- Start date
- Status
Alberto is better at marketing the Wii U than Nintendo is right now!
Thank you so much for this.
Also I haven't been here for a couple of days but, did I miss anything important?
Yeah, he's divulged more than we've had to go on for a while (hype-wise, anyway). Let's not get too greedy
Karsticles
Member
If you come to a village of starving people and tell them you heard about some food coming, but won't tell them what kind, when, etc., a lot of questions is to be expected. Not to trivialize starvation, or to slam ShockingAlberto - graces to him for sharing the hype.
this is nintendo
if it's not E3 or Nintendo Direct, you've missed nothing but speculation.
lostinblue
Banned
Z&W didn't sell that bad, I mean it did around 400k if I'm not mistaken; more than 100k in each continent. It's not a smashing success but I grow tired of the "it has to break 1 million" mentality.
It wasn't high budget either for starters and I hate the world where 400k for a new IP isn't enough.
Ghost Trick suffered from being too late in the cycle and people like me having a huge backcatalog of things to pick.
And screw Capcom expectations for Spyborgs; it failed to live up to my (and everybody else's) expectations.
Sorry, only saw these answers now, it was full three pages after my post so I missed it. I reckon it'll probably be missed now but I ought to answer anyway.
Certainly not as a flick of a switch and it's 1080p, but a game being built from the ground for 1080p can benefit a lot from tesselation; more than adding detail upclose.
You guys are thinking tesselation as a means to increase LOD near the camera or increase detail up to the point the GPU can't really take it maximizing bandwidth overhead usage without lots of optimization on a per scene basis and that's certainly attractive, but that's not what I'm saying.
I'm sure a tesselation unit can be used to decrease far away details rather than adding them closeby (I've seen it doing just that actually). And if that was used from the ground up then the polygons you have on screen at all times on a game like P-100, whose camera is pretty far away from the action then the game polycount would be decreased rather than increased; perhaps to the point 1080p could be viable.
Perhaps being a big if, as it had to be built from the ground for that goal and polygon throughput isn't all there is to it too, with effects and the like also being a factor (and framebuffer), but it's a big part of the equation and why, say, even some PS2 ports can go 1080p on current gen consoles providing the port is clean enough, because they're not doing much and that allows the necessary resources. Tesselation can help a game be lighter to run if it's used for that end.
Time will tell I guess, but I doubt that overhead will be used for 1080p if Tesselation get's off the ground. Then again it's probably the most powerfull asset Monolith has for a Xenoblade sequel.
The Pre-E3 Nintendo Direct was one of them.
This is so myopic though. The only way any audience grows to accept or "react well" to products is if you, um well, give it to them. How can you predict something as a guaranteed outcome with no precedent and no such effort being made?
And then I think of last gen and realize that this is not new at all. :lol
ShockingAlberto
Member
That hasn't really changed with some degree of qualifications here:
There's a funny thing going on in the industry right now where some developers and publishers are extremely eager to move on to next-gen to play with more graphics and bigger budgets and launching new IPs and some developers are just sort of going "Whoa, fuck, what, no."
But there's no getting around that the current systems are languishing and are hitting saturation points. There is a growing number of developers that are hoping the Wii U can sell software without raising the price of development. This does not apply across the board and, honestly, can change in the blink of an eye. Even if the Wii U can sell software, if Activision and EA prove that next-gen systems can sell more software, then publishers will likely try to follow that model.
Stuff is more in flux than people think right now, but from what I have heard, the picture of original development on the Wii U is rosier than it was for the Wii.
- Hate 'em. Fuck E3 2011 for being almost entirely CG trailers.
- Gameplay, but that said, I just played and loved Asura's Wrath, so...
- Yeah, I really enjoyed NSMBWii. I'm more excited for the Wii U game than I am Last of Us, for whatever that matters. Not that I think they'll be comparable or the latter will be a bad game, but excitement does what it wants.
- Love Kamiya, not crazy about the Mad World team but they still do interesting and fresh stuff.
You guys know how Iwata managed to convince Capcom to put Monster Hunter on the 3DS despite the obvious success they had with the PSP? He might not get a coup quite like that again with the Wii U, but he's trying the same with third parties, regardless.
Karsticles
Member
Damn. You got me excited, haha. I didn't play Asura's Wrath, but I think I know where you are coming from - I liked FFXIII, even though it doesn't fit my usual tastes. You even got the secret answer to the Platinum Games question "right". I felt very burned by Mad World. I bought the game on a bond of trust, and I almost skipped Bayonetta because of the result. If it weren't for my wife surprising me with Bayonetta for my birthday, I might have stayed bitter.
lostinblue
Banned
What? they're eager to take mismanagement to another level? (seeing Square-Enix did a "next gen" tech demo too)
Of course current platforms are really saturated at this point, hence why it's like a boat on fire; some games will still sell (mostly AAA) but the lower end and middle range are being eaten alive at this point. That's not good.
A long time ago, actually. Kinect and PS Move being things released to expand the system's lifespan a little.
That's fine, but... What are they doing so it manages to?
Because it's not about tech specs, it's about software.
If most devs want to go after a business model whose starting investment for any project is higher than it already is they must want to go bankrupt.
Just because you have success stories doesn't mean everybody should attempt that. But I realize that's a error this industry makes a point in repeating.
That's sadly not saying much.
It has a modern architecture and for a year they'd be mad not to go on a current gen port frenzy for everything the Nintendo sheltered gamer probably wants. And in some cases add that extra polish that when lacking hurt some games.
I reckon Monster Hunter was only on PSP because DS couldn't take it as it is.
That changed with the 3DS, so they went for it, no point in going for the second most sold handheld anymore and PS Vita was clearly gonna sit at that place; although I'm sure they also played their cards right (seeing there's a second circle pad addon now)
Incredibly interesting, thanks a ton for the insight. I'll try and leave you alone for now!
I suspect much of the divide is between East and West. I've said before, but I find a hard time believing Japanese 3rd parties want to invest heavily in another brand new engine.
I took it as "Stop teasing me you bastard!"
First, up thanks for all the info you've given us over the last year.
And I hope that includes western ones...please easy it does because that's all I truly care about.
No I have no idea how he managed to get it on 3DS - do tell
And I hope that includes western ones...please easy it does because that's all I truly care about.
You are both wrong. Its when something is too good, you tend to make that face. Examples:
When you eat your favorite sweet and it taste exactly how you envisioned it.
When you are in the toilet and you let out A HUGE fart that you've been holding for hours.
When you take a massage and it hits the exact parts you wanted, thus relieving any tension in your body.
Now do you get it?
lostinblue
Banned
I find it hard to believe any 3rd party whose business model isn't selling their tech to licensees wants to invest on a new engine.
Unless it makes development cheaper/easier/allows shit like id's mega texture empowering artists, that is. I don't find it hard to believe a lot of devs/publishers think they need to invest on tech yet again, but I tend to find that way of thinking kinda silly now. Find some engine that suits you and work over it; I mean even UE2.5 continued to serve the splinter cell and the Bioshock team throughout this generation just fine (and no one pointed a finger at those games for looking dated), chances are if you get the assets, shaders and art right it'll look magnificent either way. Hell, we have current game engine's still based on Quake 3 engine and they still manage to deliver (Call of Duty engine and Source engine). It's all a matter of keeping adding to it and keeping it clean at the same time.
Engine's are a means to an end, and a pain in the ass if they're approached on a "generation" basis. (that approach was needed sometimes in the past, but it's not like the development paradigm is changing each every 2 years anymore)
A rosier picture on Wii U than Wii? I'll take it. And with all the hints, put me in the camp who thinks Japan is on the verge of making a really difficult choice.
In Iwata we trust.
Dreamwriter
Member
Note that Square-Enix's demo was just as much about cutting development costs as it was about new visual tech. And they very clearly said that their budgets were way too big, that with FFXIII the team became way too big to handle and organize, that in the future they won't let their teams get that big ever again.
lostinblue
Banned
I doubt their ability to do so when Versus XIII is yet to ship and FFXIV is the mess it still is (no doubt costing lots of money) and both using cater made "custom hybrid engine solutions" that came from the same basis but are seemingly not connected, they've just thrown their "ubber" tech (Crystal Tools) out of the window and started over and are, yet again, shooting for the stars.
You can't deliver when you're trying to decrease costs and still expand scope. So I think they're still in honeymoon phase with the possibilities, as always. The plan should still be the same: "If we outsource a lot of scenery work and our engine is *that good* and shared among every game we do then development will turn out to be a walk in the park" sadly it'll never be like that.
I'd be glad to be proven wrong, and perhaps Eidos is having a good influence on them. (funny that I thought the Eidos purchase was like buying cancer seeing Eidos was having financial problems at the time, but they turned out altight keeping Square-Enix afloat somewhat in a way; they're shipping and delivering when the main company isn't)
I don't know if this has been mentioned here yet, but according to Go Nintendo, there's gonna be a Japanese Dragon Quest X Nintendo Direct on Monday at 7 AM EST. It may have info on the Wii U version (though it might be unlikely). Link: http://www.nintendo.co.jp/wii/software/s4mj/direct20120730/index.html
Edit: Sorry for the awkward sentence structure, but I was trying to avoid that moment where you read Nintendo Direct first and then hype crashes when you see it's just for Dragon Quest X.
Edit: Sorry for the awkward sentence structure, but I was trying to avoid that moment where you read Nintendo Direct first and then hype crashes when you see it's just for Dragon Quest X.
I doubt anything about WiiU will be mentioned.
They will want to sell the Wii version first.
Anyway, Nintendo was pretty clear that WiiU related stuff would come in September.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j4SatGU9zI
This trailer is full of win. Love the art style. Still playing the first one nd cant wait to get it for the Wii U.
This trailer is full of win. Love the art style. Still playing the first one nd cant wait to get it for the Wii U.
Apophis2036
Banned
Why are smaller games struggling to sell now even when there are droughts of much bigger triple A games ?, you would think with an install base of almost 250 million consoles (Wii and PS360 combined) games would be selling more now than at any other time in the consoles history.
710k last quarter, multiply by 4, that's approx. 2.84 Wii's expected to sell this fiscal year. That sounds about right. 10.5-3 That leaves us with about 7.5M Wii U's expected to be sold before April 2013. That's.....ambitious?
Me mathematics is not too much pretty good
lostinblue
Banned
There's no easy answer.
Lack of marketing, the fact that with the crisis people has been purchasing less games (I know I've been buying less), the fact they're not AAA.
The best explanation, or the closest to being right is probably how the cycle works in three phases:
Honeymoon/Launch phase:
- Everything sells, market characterized as a "Bubble", the perfect time to introduce new IP and give it a fighting chance since people are more "open" to what the platform can give them to the point they might even try genres they usually wouldn't; also propelled by the fact there's usually a software drought at the beginning of the generation.
Bubble burst phase:
Not everything sells at this point, instead it's becoming a red ocean, there are often multiple games competing for the same money so the one with the best overall quality/marketing wins. There's still space for new IP and taking chances though.
Saturation phase:
Everything is a red ocean at this point, only AAA, established IP and collectors edition sell at this point (all three characteristics combined, most of the time) platform is stale but it'll keep selling because cheaper game ranges and the fact a lot of people have one (kinda snowballs from there, costumers are likely to buy what their friends have rather than attempt to be different and have no-one to borrow games from). Doing new IP is like sending a title to die, gamers are now established clients and they're more prone to buy the next Call of Duty than *insert new IP first person shooter*. Look at the wii u; does anyone think ZombiU could have a chance on X360 being new IP this late in the cycle? On this console though, it has.
As for why mid and low budget tend to suffer more; first of all because client doesn't see as much value in them and they know that if they wait a while it'll be on the bargain bin anyway, and the fact it's not flagged as game of the year edition, collectors edition, being marked platinum line/selection; even the quantity of stock the store carries play a factor. Then you have piracy: Lots of gamers won't pirate the game they've been waiting years for, but hell yeah, they'll pirate that game everybody is talking about but they don't know what to expect and aren't willing to pay to discover; it's often new IP/something they don't own prior games, so it's not like they're missing a piece in their collection for not buying it. Then as mentioned before there's no marketing and they get less shelf space on stores, if they're there at all.
It's a uphill battle no matter how you look at it. And the fact the investment is getting higher is making it so that these otherwise experimental games can't fail in the retail area anymore; we've seen how a couple of flops have managed to make game companies and even publishers go down.
This generation already has less variety, the middle range we have now is more expensive than it was 7 years ago. More prohibitive too. And the difference is that 7 years ago AAA companies had the money to spend the ammounts they did this gen and some more (hence they're still profitable); while for some middle range developers the development costs were already a tad too high or pushing the amount they could afford. The result has been some of them focusing on digital, portables or embracing bankrupcy.
Our videogame variety got poorer and less experimental in the process.
But Yakuza wasn't one of the series SEGA was going to continue to make, and there isn't really another third-party non-multiplatform series that was close to big on PS3. Guess you could mean Tales, even though Wii got Tales of Graces. However, Tales needs to go where Final Fantasy is, so that'd have to come first (if they can finish another before the end of next-gen).
Apophis2036
Banned
Thanks for taking the time to explain it mate, makes a lot of sense.
True. But unless the Wii goes sub $100 I don't see it selling like gangbusters like previous Christmases.
There are also all of the musou games,
From my point of view, lacking differentiation and advertising. I never saw one ad for Darksiders and I'm playing it now, 3 years later due to GAF and Darksiders 2 on Wii U news.
Too many AA games try to mimic AAA games with less resources, resulting in bland looking games that are just cookie cutters of AAA games but less entertaining or they are cookie cutter games with a twist/gimmick that aren't very gripping. Lots of "Me Too" developers trying to hop on the CoD and Halo train.
StreetsAhead
Member
I was trying to think of a better way to ask this, but it's Kingdom Hearts 3, isn't it, Alberto?
Ha that came to my mind as well.
If it is KH3 and they showed it at the Fall Conference I would be like...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P3ALwKeSEYs
StreetsAhead
Member
Well, it makes the most sense to me and I can't think of anything else. But I have a very bad imagination;
Dreamwriter
Member
Sonic 2006 prequel, actually...
lostinblue
Banned
Very true.
Differentiation or thinking what makes your software unique is very important if you're trying to do an IP that can stand on it's own, it's also pretty much the only thing you can do if you're a developer and are coming out in that kind of situation. Flooding the market on the other hand hardly helps them or other developers trying to do something different. Even a crappy game takes shelf space on a store that could be used up by a much better game (and since it's crap it tends to stay there longer).
Regardless, if it's too late in the cycle though it might miss the train anyway.
See how Vagrant Story on PSone, Okami on PS2 (happens on all platforms) flopped on their original platforms for being released too close to the generations end.
I tend to think this industry tends to be really stupid when it comes to IP. It's too short-term focused, if a game doesn't do well then they won't do a sequel might even disband a good team; but I think that if you want to get it off the ground then you ought to plan a little ahead, like taking the bullet and making a sequel anyway providing the original game was good. They ought to plan it like that from the beginning so the initial cost for that new IP accommodates a sequel. In the end you'll probably have an IP it just took more than one game for it to take off. Sometimes, like if it comes in the end of a generation it's really out of the teams control and not consequence of the quality of the end product; instead of throwing that experience out of the window it's all a path to doing it right and being lucky one day.
Sometimes the public is not really there/is not willing to give that software a chance. Even late cycle AAA sequels tend to suffer a little.
nordique
Member
Don't underestimate the Wii. You might not see it selling like that, but the casual market is one that considers Xmas time "buying video games" season. Its selling quite nicely considering its point in the life cycle. Comparing it to PS3 and 360 is disappointing yes but partly because those systems saw inflated & extended lifespans due to Kinect/Move (to a less extent), much stronger software support, and (actual) revisions + price cuts, plus Wii software has all but dried up
Most systems otherwise are purchased in the back end of the year. General consumer interest is still existent for the Wii, and further there are always going to be new kids turning 7 or 8 each year that have yet to experience the thing. The current bundle with NSMB Wii is ideal as a stater console for many people, even if the system stays at $149.
Nintendo might drop the price, but if they don't, it doesn't spell the end for the Wii at all. I still expect it to sell well this Xmas season, not as much as last year, but not because of the price - rather because the Wii U will be available amongst other things. The game market will be more crowded this holiday season with more buying options than last year (Wii U, Vita, potential new PS3 model, 3DS XL)
bgassassin
Member
Oh well. The wait should be worth it.
- Status