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Halo |OT8| A Salt on the Control Room

L1NETT

Member
Looking forward to playing it without all the fluff. Should be good.

Bingo. At its core, Halo 4 looks like a great game. With all these extra's, it looks like it will be annoying and unbalanced.

I remember a post Shake made (I think) where he said that Halo 4 will have lots of little armour locks and other little annoyances when you die. Every time we get more news about it, it seems we get more and more little armour locks.

The grenade nuke perk has annoyed me more than the CTF news has in all honesty.

One of Reach's biggest annoyances during MP was the grenades. Why, WHY have an option to bring that back in some form. That + the greande pick up ability means grenade spamming will become an art form.

I see no reason to bring it back in any way. Ugh
 

lybertyboy

Thinks the Evil Empire is just misunderstood.
...grenade nuke...

This is just hyperbole. The armor mods across the board have been designed to provide subtle tweaks to gameplay. Increased grenade damage is not substantial. Sure, it might just give you a slight edge in some cases, but as designed it will not be a determing factor in the vast majority of encounters.
 
This is just hyperbole. The armor mods across the board have been designed to provide subtle tweaks to gameplay. Increased grenade damage is not substantial. Sure, it might just give you a slight edge in some cases, but as designed it will not be a determing factor in the vast majority of encounters.

Thats nice and dandy but.... is the Mark V helmet in the game?
 

L1NETT

Member
This is just hyperbole. The armor mods across the board have been designed to provide subtle tweaks to gameplay. Increased grenade damage is not substantial. Sure, it might just give you a slight edge in some cases, but as designed it will not be a determing factor in the vast majority of encounters.

Nice to here.

It is nice to hear all the PAX goers say it is a gun game primarily.

Also kind've scared that I haven't seen one decent looking map yet.

You don't like the looks of Haven? Why not?
 

kylej

Banned
You can watch videos and instantly tell it's better than Reach.

Doesn't really matter. I have zero confidence in 343's playlist management and with news that we won't even have classic CTF settings as an option(?) in customs means I have zero interest in objective gametypes. I don't fault any of this COD stuff, and I'll certainly give it a try, but it's not what I play Halo for. If 343's handling of Reach's playlists had been better I'd be more optimistic about classic Halo settings in playlists and matchmaking in general.

Also kind've scared that I haven't seen one decent looking map yet.
 

Ramirez

Member
Doesn't really matter. I have zero confidence in 343's playlist management and with news that we won't even have classic CTF settings as an option(?) in customs means I have zero interest in objective gametypes. I don't fault any of this COD stuff, and I'll certainly give it a try, but it's not what I play Halo for. If 343's handling of Reach's playlists had been better I'd be more optimistic about classic Halo settings in playlists and matchmaking in general.

Also kind've scared that I haven't seen one decent looking map yet.

Vote with your wallet brother.

Haven looks great to me.
 

Overdoziz

Banned
This is just hyperbole. The armor mods across the board have been designed to provide subtle tweaks to gameplay. Increased grenade damage is not substantial. Sure, it might just give you a slight edge in some cases, but as designed it will not be a determing factor in the vast majority of encounters.
This is exactly the kind of stuff that I hope MLG will remove. Being killed just because someone picked a perk that increased the damage (or blast radius) of grenades doesn't sound very appealing to me. The reason I stopped playing CoD is because I felt cheated by the game too often when I died and this is beginning to sound awfully similar to that.
 
"That'll be 200 MSP please."

"Spartan Poses tailored to your taste, pre-order now for Paul Newman"

ss-110822-venice-archival-03.ss_full.jpg
 

daedalius

Member
This is exactly the kind of stuff that I hope MLG will remove. Being killed just because someone picked a perk that increased the damage (or blast radius) of grenades doesn't sound very appealing to me. The reason I stopped playing CoD is because I felt cheated by the game too often when I died and this is beginning to sound awfully similar to that.

Customs

Sound in video is busted :(
 

kylej

Banned
You don't like the looks of Haven? Why not?

Nah. Aesthetically it's nice but the layout looks like someone - who doesn't really have experience playing Halo - was given a checklist for an "Arena" map and pumped that out after reading it. It's got all the pieces, but it looks too big (like every H4 map) and doesn't stick out to me as having a decent layout for many gametypes. Pit and Sanc and Midship, etc - all the greats you can play slayer or objective on. I don't see how you could play anything but slayer on Haven, which is probably the point.
 
It might not be big, but they gave her a VERY naked ass.


Halo 3's Cortana basically wore a digital thong, but it somehow didn't make her look as sexualized as what we have now (or maybe she was just REALLY bad at using digital toilet paper)


I don't know if the breasts are bigger, but they're now detailed enough to move the design from "stylized representation of a naked female body" to "hell yes, you can wank to this, space cowboy".
I do think she looks nice, but I don't think it's the right kind of nice for this character. It's distracting and coupled with her new fragile, victim-like demeanor it just makes the whole design appear creepier than it probably should. It no longer looks like her chosen form, a statement and extension of her personality. Now it looks like she was designed for your pleasure.

Exactly, while she certainly looks like she could be a real woman, they exaggerated her features from past iterations seemingly to make her more sexy, which is strange since she was fine before. Now she is super curvy, with huge hips and plus sized breasts and it just seems weird for Cortana. As you said, its not an unbelievable body type, but for her it seems out of place.


Cool, thanks for posting..The map looks like a lot of fun, but it also seems to be a vehicle fest.. Still, it looks like they work in the context of the map.

No way. It's a near-perfect match for the Promethean Knight concept art.

It's also clearly mechanical and not an armor and oversized human could wear. Actual Promethean were described as massive, with limbs the size of tree trunks... which, I guess this thing kind of does, but that description should imply mass, not length. This thing is a robot skeleton. Heh.

Straightened the picture, because why not:

uS9kF.jpg


I like this design SO MUCH, it bums me out. The final Prom Bot designs are the main reason I can't force myself to get excited about playing the game. I don't want to spend a whole game looking at them and their stupid robot puppies.
They should release a picture of the old design doing the stupid skull thing, so I could stop liking it, too.

I agree, that looks more like ancient Forerunner tech that has aged a bit.. What we have now almost doesn't look forerunner which bugs me.. as others have said, the Knights look more like evil Bionicles. I dunno why they had to go with the glowing red skull look.. If they wanted it to have a skull like face there would have been better ways to achieve it. Too bad we didn't get something closer to the earlier concepts, or something cleaner and simpler than what we have now.

Edited out of the last page, didn't want to park it at the end of the post and leave it in a quote (thanks though, Der Flatulator).

I'll do this in three posts, spread over the course of the day. The first will be just the basic, core mechanics, which think is most important. The next will be more granular, looking at specific new things - armor abilities, game systems, map setups. The last will be about how I think it all comes together.

That also means these three posts will start very positive and become more critical. But at the outset, I want to make this clear: Halo 4 is a better game than Reach. It immediately plays better, and it's simply more fun. It's also got a LOT more going on, which means there's more stuff that can either work, or cause problems. And some changes will push the gameplay in ways I think will be problematic down the road. But more on that later.

The usual caveat that this was an unfinished game set up for public exhibition played under often less than ideal circumstances. But I got in enough games - a half dozen or so - that I think I have a feel for Halo 4.


Movement

The first thing I did when the game started was strafe, as player weight/inertia remains one of the biggest problems in Reach. It's largely removed from the game; I'll need to go back to past Halo games to compare, but it felt comparable to Halo 3. I could move where I wanted to move with enough responsiveness to survive situations. Night and day difference with Reach. Jumps and base speed also feel similar to Halo 3, so if you thought that game was too slow, you'll feel that way about the base speed here. But again, coming from Reach, the improvement was immediate.

And yet...it still felt pretty slow, at first. I started clumping around the level and was surprised at how different it was from what I was expecting after seeing videos. But after a few games, I stopped thinking about it; I guess I adapted. The gunplay is so immediate and movement responsive enough that I never felt like I died because my movement options were restricted. That, right there, makes this a better game than Reach.


"Does it feel like Halo?"

I mentioned this briefly the other day, but no. But not in the way the question is usually asked. Halo 4 "feels" entirely unique to the series, in that there's been a great emphasis on making the player feel like they are inhabiting a hulking suit of armor. Everything from the sound design to subtle HUD shifts when you move to the way the screen bobs a bit as you sprint emphasize that you're a dude (or dudette, I think) in a suit in a way the rest of the series has not.

What it does successfully is make you feel heavy and massive, without actually slowing you down; you feel like an agile tank. Now, this actually took some getting used to, because I had a hard time separating what the audio/visual inputs were telling me from what the gameplay was. I realize that might sound confusing, but you move as agile as in Halo 3, but feel much heavier than in Reach.

I think the game achieves through less intrusive ways what Reach was going for; rather than have weight slow us down and limit movement, they've found other ways to convey it. The audio is a big part of it, and I'll over that in the next post.


Golden Tripod

I picked the Battle Rifle for my first load out, and stuck with it for a while. It feels good to use, and while it may just be my perception of it playing for the first time at a public event, the spread feels a bit less than Halo 3. I felt like I was headshotting folks at somewhat longer range than in Halo 3, with all shots landing. Very solid mid to close range gun.

But I switched to the DMR when I could. I'm not sure if it's because it was more effective, or because it sounds like a goddamn hand canon (probably the latter), but I just found it more fun to use. On the first map I played (Forerunner aesthetic, Haven?) it proved an advantage down the long sight lines.

I toyed with a few other weapons. On the new map, in between Gauss Hog deaths, I picked up a lucky nearby ordnance drop. I thought it was the Promethean Light Rifle. As the Warthog drove by I scoped in real quick on the driver and blew the whole thing sky high, landing a double kill. I see people have since figured out what that is. I have no idea how it's balanced, but sure was a surprising result.

The pistol feels like Halo 3's, but only a touch more accurate as Reach's. I stripped a lot of shields with it, but am pretty sure I never landed a headshot. It seems to serve the same role as the pistol did in Halo 3: it was tuned so the CTF carrier has something to use, sort of like the VIP mode in Halo 3. It won't be something people select for MP. I forgot to try the Assault Rifle. Sorry, Dax.

I only got a few melee smacks in, but I didn't whiff the way I still manage to with Reach. I can't put my finger on why, but as others have observed there's a definite emphasis on gunplay in Halo 4; melee combat was more rare than in Reach, despite everyone having sprint. I'll need more time with the game to figure out what's driving it, but Halo 4 is does emphasize gunplay more than Reach.

With each new Halo game, there's an adjustment period for grenade throwing, since the arc gets fiddled with each game. I didn't have to adjust this time around; I was just parking grenades where I wanted them to go. I think that means they throw similar to Reach, since that's what I'm used to.

Plasma grenades are still plasma grenades, and seem to take just a touch longer to blow than in Reach. That is a good thing. Frags are returned to their role in Halo 3: strip shields. I got tagged by them a few times when I had a couple shots on me, and they just took my shields down rather than killing me instantly. Far fewer grenade deaths (and also, fewer grenades piling up, since players don't seem to drop them unless you have that perk selected).

I had one odd moment with a frag grenade. I put two shots with the DMR on someone at close range, and then bounced a grenade down at his feet while stepping back around a corner. As the frag went off, I come back for the kill and find he's like, 15 feet up in the air; I think he did an accidental grenade jump. I land another couple shots but he finishes me since his head is out of my range. I suspect people will grenade jump like crazy in this game.



Short version: I think 343 more or less nailed the core gameplay. Certainly, they've nailed it in ways Reach simply didn't. Aside from the pistol - which seems to have been designed as something to give the flag carrier - I never missed shots when I thought I should have hit them. I never died and then cursed my limited mobility. I didn't take two shots and despair as a frag grenade tinked around the corner. The audio (more on that later) and stuff they're doing with HUD and overall emphasis on the armor you inhabit means it all feels quite different from the previous games, but the core is quite familiar.

It doesn't feel like Halo, but it plays like it.

Great read, thanks for the large write up.. Im looking forward to your other posts about the game. Im really glad the core gameplay is there, I think Halo 4 is going to be a huge upgrade from Reach judging by everything we have seen so far.

moar gameplay with lightrifle and armory

edit: doesn't make it through the whole armory :/...and dexterity makes me want to cry

Too bad he didn't spend more time in the Armory.. That seems to be a ton of helmets.


Ok, so the Forerunner Grenade looks useless, I have yet to see it do a thing in any of the videos. Anyways, the game is looking good, thanks for posting!
 
This is exactly the kind of stuff that I hope MLG will remove. Being killed just because someone picked a perk that increased the damage (or blast radius) of grenades doesn't sound very appealing to me. The reason I stopped playing CoD is because I felt cheated by the game too often when I died and this is beginning to sound awfully similar to that.
CoD perks, killstreaks, weapons, etc. were a cluster fawk in MW2 and quite abit in 3.
I don't even see this happening for Halo 4. The AAs have yet to fully ease worries but so far they're nerfed and balanced.

Edit: Classic gametype announcements would be nice to know hopefully this month or next. Wishful thinking.
 
wtf

That must be youtube - the original file is fine. :(

Fuck. Looking into it.

Damn, well thanks for doing this anyways! The video quality is pretty awesome, but now Im torn if I should watch the soundless version or wait for the re-up when it comes. Im looking forward to the sounds, so I think I'll wait..
 

Arnie

Member
This is just hyperbole. The armor mods across the board have been designed to provide subtle tweaks to gameplay. Increased grenade damage is not substantial. Sure, it might just give you a slight edge in some cases, but as designed it will not be a determing factor in the vast majority of encounters.

Yes, but why is it even a feature anyway? What does allowing someone an innate advantage over others really add to Halo? How does that improve the core experience that you're building, and why do you think Halo fans will appreciate it?

It's these questions that we've been consistently asking, for each and every baffling and obtuse adjustment or alteration made, and it's the answer to these questions that 343 have ignored, or deemed unimportant.

The end result, regardless of how we perceive the game come November, is a negligent approach to engaging with your community on issues that they would like to understand. Instead you leave us with no choice but to come to our own (often incomplete) conclusions and act bemused when we do so.
 

senador

Banned
Thanks, much appreciated. I'm going to try and make it a regular thing, since it's usually not appropriate to drop a six paragraph blowhard bomb on the thread, especially not when the current discussion doesn't merit it. I just finished a retrospective on CEA's failure to maintain the standards of Halo's visual feedback systems a few minutes ago, which I'm not sure would ever fit into a conversation naturally around here.

This one is great too. I can't say if I noticed the visual feedback, or lack thereof, you described when I played CEA last November. I'll have to pay more attention when I play it again. It's things like this that show just how far ahead of the curve Bungie was. I love the attention to detail they added.

I look forward to reading more of your stuff. Very spot-on so far.
 

Ramirez

Member
The DMR sounds like a silenced cannon, lol.

F the haters, Steitzer sounds more awesome than ever.

lol, someone punks the mongoose with a prom nade at 6:04.

I need this game...now.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
That's the first video I've seen that conveys the weapon sounds well. My headphone volume was too loud when I first played and firing the magnum first thing was like a cannon went off inside my head.
The DMR sounds like a silenced cannon, lol.

F the haters, Steitzer sounds more awesome than ever.

There's a bit too much of him, at times. In Regicide he's constant.
 

Blueblur1

Member
Congratulations 343, you've made Halo sound exactly like every other first person shooter. Nothing except for the drained shield sound effect and Respawn timer sounds like Halo. And some of those Steitzer takes sound terrible. Especially "Enemy Team Scored." The game sounds like hot garbage.
 
I'd like to know what weapon they based the DMR sounds off of; I have an FN FAL at home, and they sound the exact same.
Also, Wu, is this video from the devs perspective or the GAFers?
 

neoism

Member
yeah totally not a fan of the sound design,there's no reason to change every sound.....:/
Halo 4 changed more in "halo" in sound than Reach ever did.
 
Congratulations 343, you've made Halo sound exactly like every other first person shooter. Nothing except for the drained shield sound effect and Respawn timer sounds like Halo. And some of those Steitzer takes sound terrible. Especially "Enemy Team Scored." The game sounds like hot garbage.
This I strongly disagree with. Forerunner vehicle sounds are like something out of Prometheus. Like, a good thing out of Prometheus.

There's a bit too much of him, at times. In Regicide he's constant.
This is more worrying to me. He talks. All the time. And meanwhile there's a steady stream of white text and numbers popping up.

You get a medal for getting air in the Mongoose now? Maybe taking it too far, guys...
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Congratulations 343, you've made Halo sound exactly like every other first person shooter. Nothing except for the drained shield sound effect and Respawn timer sounds like Halo. And some of those Steitzer takes sound terrible. Especially "Enemy Team Scored." The game sounds like hot garbage.

It sounds different, but as someone who was decidedly not sold on the audio before plopping those headphones on - you are incorrect. The game sounds incredible.

I do have some problems with aspects of the sound design, but the quality of most individual sounds isn't one of them.
 
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