Miles Quaritch
Member
So it could end up being another 360 /PS3 situation?
Where one console has a advantage on paper, but in real terms, the power difference isn't as wide or as great as people assume it will be based on the paper specs.
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DF: Orbis vs Durango Spec Analysis
- Thread starter iamshadowlark
- Start date
So it could end up being another 360 /PS3 situation?
Where one console has a advantage on paper, but in real terms, the power difference isn't as wide or as great as people assume it will be based on the paper specs.
This is why AMD had a lot more engineers on the Durango project
Not unless there is a another hardware version in the stealth hangar on standby. Such a thing would cause delays.
gaming_noob
Member
Proelite redeemed.
bgassassin
Member
For the most part yes. I don't think the gap is going to be enough to justify multiplat devs increasing the budget for that. IMO obviously based on what all is known so far.
Look who's also back.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
The VGleaks article on Durango doesn't list or mention anything extra for the CPU. Wouldn't this sort of info be in the docs they have?
Do you mind throwing a link to the beyond3d thread. I follow 2 of them and don't see any discussion about this new cpu info.
EDIT: nm, I found it.
Cool stuff. Thanks!
Does your source talk about ease of development this time? Are both consoles straightforward from a development perspective or will we have a PS3 situation with any of the consoles?
ALBOFIGHTER
Member
It doesn't mean ps4 is using vanilla jaguar, although it probably is lol. I hope that 8 gb upgrade was not fake.
You would think so.
lol no. That is not a better place ram wise compared to GDDR5
statham
Member
nice thanks.
For the most part yes. I don't think the gap is going to be enough to justify multiplat devs increasing the budget for that. IMO obviously based on what all is known so far.
Look who's also back.
If it was your money on the line, which one would you go for? Plain and simple w/o beating around the bush.
EDIT: Yea, thought so.
SneakyStephan
Banned
I hope you are right...
The more powerful they both are the less they'll be dragging eachother down for ports and the less pc ports will suffer for the next 5-6 years...
You're trying to see something that's not there. Think about the overall architecture of Orbis and how each part should complement each other based on what we know. Durango in the same boat of course.
We haven't heard all that much about the CPUs for either system outside of 8 jaguar cores, they could each be custom. It would make sense that MS would have tweaked it for better multitasking, it may also be why PS4 has the 4 GPU CUs that can be used for compute functions.
MS having a more custom CPU also makes sense with the rumors of them having some yield issues and having more cores reserved/locked than Sony. It won't make much of a difference if those 6 open cores are more efficient. I've honestly been surprised that it looks like MS was going for a straight up Jaguar core based on previous rumors. CPU clock speed is something I figured would improve for both consoles before launch. 1.6GHz per core on Jaguar is very cool and uses very little energy. It's the one place where I can see some wiggle room.
bgassassin
Member
The VGLeaks doesn't even call them Jaguar cores. That info was rather thin.
Here you go.
http://forum.beyond3d.com/showthread.php?p=1707843#post1707843
From what I've been able to gather, it seems that other than normal nuances of new hardware it's rather straightforward.
Sony seems to have put their BoM more into the GPU-side.
ThoughtsOfSpeaking
Banned
Ill tell you what Durangos secret sauce will be:-
Anyone thinking different is fooling themselves.
Anyone thinking different is fooling themselves.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
To be fair, If you believe the detailed GPU info on VGleaks, Microsoft don't recognise it as a GCN GPU so I wouldn't expect them to call the CPU "Jaguar" (Maybe Kryptos?)
Be interesting if VGleaks have a new article on Monday for this.
Nope, not really. Unless the Orbis is a monstruosity to code for...
Let me update that by saying that I do not I susbscribe to the theory of a significant Orbis advantage. What I was trying to convey is that, unlike the current gen, Sony's plateform will not suffer the dire consequences of its RAM setup and agressive CPU architecture on 3rd party games...
A win-win situation for both machines, imo!
Let me update that by saying that I do not I susbscribe to the theory of a significant Orbis advantage. What I was trying to convey is that, unlike the current gen, Sony's plateform will not suffer the dire consequences of its RAM setup and agressive CPU architecture on 3rd party games...
A win-win situation for both machines, imo!
bgassassin
Member
I think VGLeaks has squeezed that dry.
Right, but like I also mentioned the CPU info was thin.
LOL. That would be a coincidence I had nothing to do with.
He means in power gap. Not in coding.
Those expecting a PS2 - Xbox difference (30fps in one game, 60fps in another is going to be disappointed)
Was right. Again.
It's PS3/360 part 2.
cant ever be like that, unless you mean tables have changed.
Since he knew the Orbis specs beforehand, he hasn't changed his tune when stating that.
Was right. Again.
It's PS3/360 part 2.
At least, given the myriad rumours pointing to the ease of leveraging performance from the Orbis, it will at least not be PS3/360 in that regard. More like "360 with 4GB GDDR5/360 with 8GB DDR3".
It'll be interesting if Durango has (according to rumors) 6 very efficient cores open to games while PS4 has 7 or 7.5 of slower cores plus a couple of the extra CUs. Orbis may still have an advantage in rendering but it won't have a guaranteed boost in compute functions as well.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
Are Orbis's CPU core's "vanilla" Jaguar cores? I would expect a level of customization from both consoles CPU's?
edit: theres also the rumor that Durango has 2 cores reserved for the OS. We don't know what Orbis is doing on this front, but it could be 1-2 as well.
googleplex
Member
Was right. Again.
It's PS3/360 part 2.
Not even close to the same situation.
They're probably not vanilla but they likely aren't as custom as Durango's are. Sony was originally targeting Steamroller for their CPU before switching over to Jaguar later on and they're focused more on the GPU this time around.
He said in power gap. Both consoles will have their strengths and weaknesses.
And the PS3 and 360 was just like that.
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=46551080&postcount=274
Can I ask why people assume that the ps4 will not be reserving a core or two for OS, because it will, whether you want it to or not.
I think one core will be reserved but some people who seem to know more than me think otherwise.
statham
Member
.5 core
Reminds of PS3 situation with their plans of utilizing two CELL processors until 2 years before its release.
For better or worse Sony are stuck with little puss and the true test lies with its gaming related performance.
At this point, discussion of specs is kind of moot because they look to remain largely unchanged from here till release and so if one feels "slighted, cheated, disdain, disgusted, disappointed" by looking what is on paper then that will not change.
JohnnySasaki86
Member
Was right. Again.
It's PS3/360 part 2.
its not nearly close to the same situation because those consoles architectures were completely different. It was like comparing Apples to Oranges before with PS4's Cell advantage and 360's GPU advantage.
Its apples to apples now. The flops are directly comparable. The memory set up of each consoles, with one having 2.5x the bandwidth, and the other having 1.5x the memory, will be bit of a different of a situation.
SlickShoesRUCrazy
Member
the vgleaks docs are a year old.
bgassassin
Member
More compute performance. To make it less vague we're looking at ~200 GFLOPs.
I think that's probably why it's the 14+4 set up on the GPU, to have an extra 400GFlops for compute if necessary. If they weren't using GDDR5 I could see them substantially upping the clock speed but the RAM is going to add a lot of heat/energy consumption so I don't see all that much of an improvement possible in clock speed, maybe a slight one.
Here is a simpler question for you: Are you happy with the way the next gen system designed to be sold for around $400 are being spec'd?
And they compromising the GPU to do so. Or at least it is now up to the devs.
THE:MILKMAN
Member
From what I have been reading, the lead times of these consoles would mean little to nothing would change in that time.
phosphor112
Banned
Those stronger CPU's wouldn't really benefit games would it? Mostly multi tasking? I thought game development was going on a heavy GPU focus.
Naughty Dog Voodoo time.
Depends on the engine.
A powerful CPU is still important, look at Wii U port jobs to see why.
It will help with gameplay physics and animation big time.
If those CUs are still good for rendering and can be customized separately from one another it won't compromise much. Even if all 4 are used, there is still a small rendering advantage over Durango. If the Durango CPU advantage is 200GFlops Orbis can still use 1.6Tflops for rendering and the extra 2 CUs for compute.
shinra-bansho
Member
Interesting. I'm assuming you mean a total of 200 GFLOPS, not an additional 200 GFLOPS, as I believe calculations had the 8 Jaguar cores at ~100 GFLOPS.
But while that would help to bridge the gap; wouldn't Orbis' CUs if used wholly to assist the CPU (as some have been suggesting they must) amount to an additional 400 GFLOPS in compute performance?
If those CUs are more flexible in their use, then essentially 1 CU is all that would be needed to assist the CPU in multiplats - if they were fully utilising Durango's CPU?