Seems like ever since they lost the election conservatives keep touting going back to "Reagan values". WTF?!! Is that the best they can do? Reagan waged war against the working/common man. He's lucky because the seeds that sowed didn't come to fruitiion until after his Presidency. Reganomics were the cause of the recession that Bush Sr. was largely blamed for. Giving weapons to freedom fighters in afghanistan and Iraq and the whole Iran thing worked out really well for us. What's with this whole undeserved bit of nostalgia?
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Someone explain the right's infatuation with Reagan
- Thread starter ronito
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Father_Brain
Banned
I find it fascinating how the right actually criticized him a fair amount throughout his presidency. His deification didn't come until after he left office.
Escape Goat
Member
He was just so damned sexy.
Ghengis Cohen
Banned
My Russian friends think the idea that Reagan ended the ussr laughable.
Ignore the "ending communism" rhetoric.
What it comes down to is that Reagan took the Goldwater ideals (a dead movement in the 70's) and was able to run on them and win. Not only winning the presidency (which seemed impossible, post-Nixon/Ford) but creating a new bloc of Republican voter. The Reagan Democrat.
An example of the Reagan Democrat was the unionized worker in Michigan and Ohio that felt the Democrats didn't represent the "average American" anymore. But, rather the poor and unemployed first. So, in record numbers, these people voted for Reagan even as they were voting a straight Democrat ticket on the local and state levels. Pretty remarkable.
How did he do it?
He truley was the great communicator. It sounds hokey and goofy now in the Age of Cynicism v2.0. But Reagan made people feel good when he spoke. Was it his acting skills or his natural charm? Hard to say. But, when he spoke on TV it was commanding. People felt GOOD. He also had some terrific speech writers (Pat Buchanan) that helped.
So to boil it down: Great communicator, created a new bloc of voter, was able to revive a dead conservative movement.
What it comes down to is that Reagan took the Goldwater ideals (a dead movement in the 70's) and was able to run on them and win. Not only winning the presidency (which seemed impossible, post-Nixon/Ford) but creating a new bloc of Republican voter. The Reagan Democrat.
An example of the Reagan Democrat was the unionized worker in Michigan and Ohio that felt the Democrats didn't represent the "average American" anymore. But, rather the poor and unemployed first. So, in record numbers, these people voted for Reagan even as they were voting a straight Democrat ticket on the local and state levels. Pretty remarkable.
How did he do it?
He truley was the great communicator. It sounds hokey and goofy now in the Age of Cynicism v2.0. But Reagan made people feel good when he spoke. Was it his acting skills or his natural charm? Hard to say. But, when he spoke on TV it was commanding. People felt GOOD. He also had some terrific speech writers (Pat Buchanan) that helped.
So to boil it down: Great communicator, created a new bloc of voter, was able to revive a dead conservative movement.
Well the reagan democrat no longer exists. One of the major elements of this election was that Bush pushed the Reagan Democrats back under the Democratic fold which resulted in the massive uprising of Blue Dog Democrats in Congress and the Senate (Webb, Talent).
Jim Webb is the symbol of the return of the reagan democrats to the democratic party.
Jim Webb is the symbol of the return of the reagan democrats to the democratic party.
reggieandTFE
Member
140.85 said:
Jesus ****ing Christ, the guy could barely tie his damned shoes while he was in the White House. I love how people deify Reagan for crushing the USSR while ignoring the impact of people in Eastern Europe standing up for themselves. The Solidarity Movement (independent trade unionists, the Polish pope, etc.) did more to hasten the Soviet Union's demise than Reagan delivering "forceful" speeches from his little bubble. But of course conservatives won't talk about Solidarity's effect because labor unions are evil brakes on the freight train of good time capitalism.
Suburban Cowboy
Member
was the greatest living president prior to his death. Now Clinton holds the title
Ninja Scooter
Member
Reagan:Repubs::SNES:Nintards
Fun Factor
Formerly FTWer
kinda ironic that the Repulbicans worship for someone who wanted to be a Communist & was a liberal Democrat for most of his life.
Rabbit Lord
Member
FTWer said:
And Hillary Clinton was a College repulican.
Reagan ran on a very conservative/right-wing platform (compared to Eisenhower or Nixon) and won. He's seen as the ideological heir to Goldwater, but also popular. After decades of New Deal/Fair Deal/Great Society, they finally felt like they got someone who wasn't Democrat Lite, and would start rolling back the welfare state.
I think ToxicAdam hit on the charisma thing, though, because Reagan really was (and is) more popular than a lot of his platform (one of the planks was eliminating the Department of Education, for example).
I think there's a (misguided) belief that since Reagan managed to get elected, a Republican candidate should be able to be just as popular by being just as conservative. A number of conservatives talk about the party abandoning its principles, but honestly, nobody's going to win national elections by undoing the New Deal.
People like the welfare state.
I think ToxicAdam hit on the charisma thing, though, because Reagan really was (and is) more popular than a lot of his platform (one of the planks was eliminating the Department of Education, for example).
I think there's a (misguided) belief that since Reagan managed to get elected, a Republican candidate should be able to be just as popular by being just as conservative. A number of conservatives talk about the party abandoning its principles, but honestly, nobody's going to win national elections by undoing the New Deal.
People like the welfare state.
Remember that time that Reagan challenged Gorbachev to a 1 on 1 fight to the death for the future of the world on top of the Berlin Wall?
Reagan spent billions of dollars on good, old fashioned free market personal trainers and became the finest killing machine the west has ever known. Meanwhile, the inept, centrally planned training program of Soviet Russia left Gorby completely unprepared. In fact, Gorbachev carries the scars of that battle on his head to this day.
Anyways, we all know what happened next. Reagan granted Gorbachev mercy in exchange for his agreement to dismantle the Soviet Union, liberalize the market, and hold democratic elections. He then immediately launch a "Contra" against Iran to address the rising threat of islamic fanaticism. Unfortunately this mission was mischaracterized by the liberal media. And then his successor didn't have the stones to deal with Saddam when he had the chance. And then the Clintons came along and ruined everything.
One little known fact about Reagon though was his work in the private sector. After he stepped down from the presidency, Reagan anticipated the world's greatest coming crisis: the lack of innovation in controllers for new video game systems. He immediately set about developing a motion sensitive, two part controller in a joint venture with Nintendo. While he unfortunately couldn't live to see his dream fulfilled, we all owe him our respect and gratitude for this, and all his other accomplishments.
Reagan spent billions of dollars on good, old fashioned free market personal trainers and became the finest killing machine the west has ever known. Meanwhile, the inept, centrally planned training program of Soviet Russia left Gorby completely unprepared. In fact, Gorbachev carries the scars of that battle on his head to this day.
Anyways, we all know what happened next. Reagan granted Gorbachev mercy in exchange for his agreement to dismantle the Soviet Union, liberalize the market, and hold democratic elections. He then immediately launch a "Contra" against Iran to address the rising threat of islamic fanaticism. Unfortunately this mission was mischaracterized by the liberal media. And then his successor didn't have the stones to deal with Saddam when he had the chance. And then the Clintons came along and ruined everything.
One little known fact about Reagon though was his work in the private sector. After he stepped down from the presidency, Reagan anticipated the world's greatest coming crisis: the lack of innovation in controllers for new video game systems. He immediately set about developing a motion sensitive, two part controller in a joint venture with Nintendo. While he unfortunately couldn't live to see his dream fulfilled, we all owe him our respect and gratitude for this, and all his other accomplishments.
kablooey said:
She was a Goldwater Girl, actually. Considering Goldwater's stances, I don't think that makes her conservative in any modern sense of the word.
If I were a Democrat I couldn't see disliking her for being a Republican back when she was a kid. When you're a kid, you're generally whatever your parents are.
Her stances on issues today provide all the reasons I need to not like her.
AlanHemberger
Banned
^^Link1110 said:
Yup.
And why do you expect to understand the rights admiration for the man? You don't agree with what he did, so you wouldn't be able to understand it. So what was the point in making this thread? To create another leftist circle jerk where everyone agrees that the right is nutty? Seems so.
lolz
RaymondCarver
Member
ummmm..... I'm with Zilch on this one. I do not' think that a cat avatar named "ronito" counts as a political commenter with any clout.
and kingfrod, I believe the best/greatest/most-famous Republican presidents were in the early half of last century. The caveat is that back then, what's typically knows as Republican today was then called Democrat.
Look unto Lieberman as an example that the modern Democratic party does not have a party platform or basis.
So, in modern times, I just do not see why someone would begin this thread by asking such an over generalized question.
and kingfrod, I believe the best/greatest/most-famous Republican presidents were in the early half of last century. The caveat is that back then, what's typically knows as Republican today was then called Democrat.
Look unto Lieberman as an example that the modern Democratic party does not have a party platform or basis.
So, in modern times, I just do not see why someone would begin this thread by asking such an over generalized question.
I agree... Lincoln as a Republican back then really doesn't count for the modern-day GOP. And I hope it didn't sound as if I was trying to say Democratic presidents were infallible heroes or anything, because all politicians are jerks at heart. But, with Reagan, it just seems like Republicans are reaching for somebody with either JFK charisma or FDR progress, but it's just not there.
WrathOfOtaibah
Banned
The right's infatuation with Reagan is for a few reasons:
1) Groupthink - Most people probably cannot even name anything he has done except for the "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall." Most people do not realize that he was President during the highest unemployment rates since the Great Depression (12.4% at one time), the fact that he cut and run from Afghanistan, or hell, just about anything he has done. The GOP is a consolidated unit. Everyone is supposed to think alike. If Reagan is supposed to be thought of as a great leader, most of the Republicans will claim that, even if they thought he sucked in the 1980s.
2) Speaking skills - He was a great speaker. Many crappy leaders were able to get a free pass because they had oratory skills. Reagan was no exception. He said the right things at the right time at the right place to energize his base.
3) Embraced the racist right - He appeared at the town where Mississippi Burning took place and said he was for state's rights. Many people today who say state's rights think something else but in the 1960s and 1970s, state's rights meant racism. The Democrats avoided the racists and the Republicans, even with the rightward shift, tried to avoid the racist South. Reagan was the first to embrace it. I'm not sure if Reagan was a racist but I believe his advisors knew that getting the south meant getting millions of votes. It worked as the south is almost thoroughly red.
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The Republicans were a very liberal party, even considered radicals at the time. Pretty much the Ralph Naders of American politics. Theodore Roosevelt even split off of the Republicans to create the Progressive party.
1) Groupthink - Most people probably cannot even name anything he has done except for the "Mr Gorbachev, tear down this wall." Most people do not realize that he was President during the highest unemployment rates since the Great Depression (12.4% at one time), the fact that he cut and run from Afghanistan, or hell, just about anything he has done. The GOP is a consolidated unit. Everyone is supposed to think alike. If Reagan is supposed to be thought of as a great leader, most of the Republicans will claim that, even if they thought he sucked in the 1980s.
2) Speaking skills - He was a great speaker. Many crappy leaders were able to get a free pass because they had oratory skills. Reagan was no exception. He said the right things at the right time at the right place to energize his base.
3) Embraced the racist right - He appeared at the town where Mississippi Burning took place and said he was for state's rights. Many people today who say state's rights think something else but in the 1960s and 1970s, state's rights meant racism. The Democrats avoided the racists and the Republicans, even with the rightward shift, tried to avoid the racist South. Reagan was the first to embrace it. I'm not sure if Reagan was a racist but I believe his advisors knew that getting the south meant getting millions of votes. It worked as the south is almost thoroughly red.
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The Republicans were a very liberal party, even considered radicals at the time. Pretty much the Ralph Naders of American politics. Theodore Roosevelt even split off of the Republicans to create the Progressive party.
GoutPatrol
Forgotten in his cell
The Experiment said:
Nixon was the first one to use the "Southern Strategy." Though Reagan was the first to publicly make it known that he was using it.
Norse
Member
Reagan was the John Wayne of politics. Even those that totally disagreed with his politics liked him as a person...some people just have so damn much charisma that they are just blindly loved. Reagan put the fear of god into our enemies as well....they knew he carried a big stick and would use it too.
I was in high school when he was shot...never saw that many people break down and cry like that before. People just loved th guy.
I was in high school when he was shot...never saw that many people break down and cry like that before. People just loved th guy.
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