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Synbios459 · Dec 5, 2006

I was watching this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=AMtoYoJf3_o

And wondered what kind of authority is given to do this? I'd understand if they were all illegals, but they even say most of them are American citizens, so shouldn't the constitutionn stoped something like this? Or is it like today where Bush can blatantly ignore and do illegal things just because he's the President?

It's sickening how they try to make it sound all upbeat and make everyone look like their all happy saying "We treat them with the utmost care" etc. not even seeming to mind that no matter how well treated this is dispicable.

I guess it's just like James Madison said "If tyranny and opression ever reach this land, it will be under the guise of fighting a foreign enemy".

I used to have lots of respect for Roosevelt to, but after watching that, far as I'm concerned he's no better than Bush.

commish · Dec 5, 2006

Synbios459 said:
I was watching this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=AMtoYoJf3_o

And wondered what kind of authority is given to do this? I'd understand if they were all illegals, but they even say most of them are American citizens, so shouldn't the constitutionn stoped something like this? Or is it like today where Bush can blatantly ignore and do illegal things just because he's the President?

It's sickening how they try to make it sound all upbeat and make everyone look like their all happy saying "We treat them with the utmost care" etc. not even seeming to mind that no matter how well treated this is dispicable.

I guess it's just like James Madison said "If tyranny and opression ever reach this land, it will be under the guise of fighting a foreign enemy".

I used to have lots of respect for Roosevelt to, but after watching that, far as I'm concerned he's no better than Bush.

...

nah, nevermind. Not even worth getting into at 2 am.

FIGHT THE POWER.

tnw · Dec 5, 2006

People aren't very rational during wartime. The world was also a very different place in the 1940's.

My friends dad was in the internment, but he was only like 3 or 4 years old, so he said he mostly has good memories of playing with the other kids in the camp. Kind of strange because his dad ended up receiving the money that Reagan dished out in the 80's.

Is it bad spirited of me to think that this money went to the wrong person? His parents are the ones that suffered, and his dad already had a good job that could afford to live in a wealthy southern california exurb.

And FDR is always rated as one of the best presidents in history, and in so many ways, the opposite of bush. Most of the stuff FDR is known for(social security, minimum wage, Keynesian economics, etc) bush is against/wants to eliminate.

whytemyke · Dec 5, 2006

Synbios459 said:
I was watching this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=AMtoYoJf3_o

And wondered what kind of authority is given to do this? I'd understand if they were all illegals, but they even say most of them are American citizens, so shouldn't the constitutionn stoped something like this? Or is it like today where Bush can blatantly ignore and do illegal things just because he's the President?

It's sickening how they try to make it sound all upbeat and make everyone look like their all happy saying "We treat them with the utmost care" etc. not even seeming to mind that no matter how well treated this is dispicable.

I guess it's just like James Madison said "If tyranny and opression ever reach this land, it will be under the guise of fighting a foreign enemy".

I used to have lots of respect for Roosevelt to, but after watching that, far as I'm concerned he's no better than Bush.

FDR got immense pressure from the military after Pearl Harbor. The military got scared cuz when we got bombed in Pearl Harbor, they realized that we had no coastal defense. The Japanese could have gotten past the Rockies before our military could do a thing. So the military got scared.

Started worrying about how the coast could be taken by the japanese empire. the people got wind of it and got scared, so the political pressure was put on, too. FDR wasn't a big fan of it, in fact he didn't like it, but carried it out despite his personal wishes, and the Supreme Court, backing up military law for times of war, supported the detainment.

The thing is that the people getting screwed were going to such lengths to prove they were American. Either Korematsu or Hirobyashi ended up speaking perfect English (3rd generation) and was still so scared that he bleached his hair blonde and had an antiquated 'nose job' done just to avoid suspicion. But when the authorities found him coming home late one night from getting milk, they arrested him and shipped him off. It's not hard to understand how authorities would see such great lengths he'd gone to to prove himself "American" and then think he did it to avoid them, not to prove his loyalty.

I mean, it was a horrible thing that happened. The Japanese were surprisingly benevolent in the face of all the horror that went on. I should think if it happened today to any minority group there'd be widespread violence.

But this kind of thing happens when fear takes over... ask any Arab who owned a party store or black guy who admitted that he read the Qu'ran after 9/11.

Zynx · Dec 5, 2006

Words on paper or whatever don't actually have any power unless people put them in action. If some group is oppressed, others don't care about them, and the oppressed can't help themselves, then they continue to get stomped on.

Synbios459 · Dec 5, 2006

Zynx said:
Words on paper or whatever don't actually have any power unless people put them in action. If some group is oppressed, others don't care about them, and the oppressed can't help themselves, then they continue to get stomped on.

So you think if Bush wanted to het could implement the same thing only for Muslims?

monchi-kun · Dec 5, 2006

the GAF reason - There weren't enough anime fans to protest against the detainment

the REAL reason - The United States was less rational back then

Hsieh · Dec 5, 2006

It was the 1940's and attitudes were different back then, especially when it came to non-white Americans. The constitutionality of internment was challenged even back then, and the Supreme Court ruled that it was constitutional.

Summary: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korematsu_v._United_States
Supreme Court Decision: http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=323&invol=214

Mr. Justice BLACK delivered the opinion of the Court.

The petitioner, an American citizen of Japanese descent, was convicted in a federal district court for remaining in San Leandro, California, a 'Military Area', contrary to Civilian Exclusion Order No. 34 of the Commanding General [323 U.S. 214, 216] of the Western Command, U.S. Army, which directed that after May 9, 1942, all persons of Japanese ancestry should be excluded from that area. No question was raised as to petitioner's loyalty to the United States. The Circuit Court of Appeals affirmed,1 and the importance of the constitutional question involved caused us to grant certiorari.

It should be noted, to begin with, that all legal restrictions which curtail the civil rights of a single racial group are immediately suspect. That is not to say that all such restrictions are unconstitutional. It is to say that courts must subject them to the most rigid scrutiny. Pressing public necessity may sometimes justify the existence of such restrictions; racial antagonism never can.

SolKane · Dec 5, 2006

Synbios459 said:
I was watching this video: http://youtube.com/watch?v=AMtoYoJf3_o

And wondered what kind of authority is given to do this? I'd understand if they were all illegals, but they even say most of them are American citizens, so shouldn't the constitutionn stoped something like this? Or is it like today where Bush can blatantly ignore and do illegal things just because he's the President?

It's sickening how they try to make it sound all upbeat and make everyone look like their all happy saying "We treat them with the utmost care" etc. not even seeming to mind that no matter how well treated this is dispicable.

I guess it's just like James Madison said "If tyranny and opression ever reach this land, it will be under the guise of fighting a foreign enemy".

I used to have lots of respect for Roosevelt to, but after watching that, far as I'm concerned he's no better than Bush.

whos that in yr avatar

Synbios459 · Dec 5, 2006

So what are your alls thoughts on it? Do you think Rosevelt did the right thing?

Found a cool quote by Lincoln: "Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution of the United States as our fathers made it inviolate. The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Why can't we overthrow Bush

JB1981 · Dec 5, 2006

We kicked ass. And had this

Donono · Dec 5, 2006

WWII was pretty fcked up with firebombing, genocide and all that crazy shit that everyone (including America) did.

Can't wait for the third act. Oooooooo yeah!

Triumph · Dec 5, 2006

I dunno, ask the people who are saying we should kill all the muslims after 9/11.

tnw · Dec 5, 2006

JB1981 said:
We kicked ass. And had this

Just so you know, the US did far more destruction fire bombing Japan than with the atomic bombs.

It's easy from our perspective now to damn the internment of the Japanese, but at that point in time, the Nazis pretty much controlled Europe with their eyes set on the UK, and the Japanese leading the East Asian Coprosperity sphere, colonizing korea and occupying parts of China, an attack from either of those powers might make me snap back in an inappropriate fashion.

I think Roosevelt did the right thing in doing away with isolationist policies, and I think this was a misstep in that admisitration in trying to do that.

We don't need to throw out bush, he'll lose power over the next two years as we're already seeing. Besides if we impeach him, wouldn't Cheney or Condoleeza Rice just take his place? If that's the case, I don't think either of those would be better solutions

Anybody hear that Cat Stevens, a practicing muslim now, was sent back to the UK for being a terrorist suspect?

terrene · Dec 5, 2006

It's kind of amazing that such a bitter enemy as Japan during WWII could turn into the friend they are today. The internment, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and our occupation -- it all seems like water under a distant bridge even though it was only 60 short years ago. America really takes the gloves off after it's been attacked. :/

Regarding internment: no, it was not the right thing to do. It was surely a brute force solution (to the problem of infiltration/surveillance) that could've been done smarter through covert programs -- and that's before you get to the civil rights questions. Bleagh.

monchi-kun · Dec 5, 2006

terrene said:
It's kind of amazing that such a bitter enemy as Japan during WWII could turn into the friend they are today. The internment, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and our occupation -- it all seems like water under a distant bridge

China, Korea, and most of Southeast Asia bore the brunt of the Japanese soldiers, I think japan would have a hard time trying to get these countries off their back for "reparations" if the US wasn't backing them. pearl harbor was bad but the majority of American citizens didn't have to endure torture and rape

To this day the surviving "comfort women" are still seeking justice and it gets tougher each year with so few of them left to make the case.

TAJ · Dec 5, 2006

Note that those of German and Italian descent were not interned. Purely because they weren't "slant-eyed"? Signs point to yes.

-=DoAvl=- · Dec 5, 2006

terrene said:
It's kind of amazing that such a bitter enemy as Japan during WWII could turn into the friend they are today. The internment, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and our occupation -- it all seems like water under a distant bridge even though it was only 60 short years ago. America really takes the gloves off after it's been attacked. :/

highlighted the important bits.... think about it

terrene · Dec 5, 2006

-=DoAvl=- said:
highlighted the important bits.... think about it

I'm not sure what you're saying. Japan is holding it's tongue and would actually like to h-bomb us?

Blackace · Dec 5, 2006

Triumph Dolomite 1300cc said:
I dunno, ask the people who are saying we should kill all the muslims after 9/11.

oddly enough America almost did come up camps again after 9/11... it was dicussed.. which is bad enough...

JayDubya · Dec 5, 2006

Synbios459 said:
I used to have lots of respect for Roosevelt to, but after watching that, far as I'm concerned he's no better than Bush.

He's far worse. As far as I'm concerned, out of 43, Bush is somewhere in the lower half, but Roosevelt is either the worst or just simply somewhere in the bottom 10%.

He'd be absolutely at the bottom if he had been the one responsible for choosing to use "Little Boy" and "Fat Man" where they ultimately were used, but thankfully the bastard died before he could be responsible for that too and then run for his fourth, fifth, sixth, etc terms.

Stele · Dec 5, 2006

Example of Japanese Nationals and Japanese-American traitors:

Japanese Nationals:

John Mikami, a Japanese permanent resident alien, also assisted Japan's Honolulu spy ring. Like many of Hawaii's Japanese resident aliens, he was intensely pro-Japanese, according to the FBI. Even during his internment at Sand Point, Mikami continued to monitor ship movements in and out of Pearl Harbor.

Itaru Tachibana, a Japanese Navy lieutenant commander, was a key member of a large espionage ring that encompassed the entire West Coast. He was one of dozens of Japanese agents sent to the U.S. in the 1930s posing as language students and technical experts. He ran a chain of brothels for cover and supplemental income. The FBI arrested Tachibana in the summer of 1941 for violations of federal espionage statutes. Documents seized included names of espionage agents; locations of military installations, power stations, and dams; data on defense factories and harbors; and correspondence between Tachibana and officials of the kais in California. Among Tachibanas possessions was a suitcase belonging to Lieutenant Commander Sadatomo Okada, a fellow language officer and suspected spy, containing details of naval ships under construction, data on antiaircraft defenses for the Boeing plant in Seattle, and aerial photographs of naval and army bases, and test data on naval aircraft. The names of agents named in Tachibanas documents--Fukuchi, Maki, and Kurokawa--leave little doubt that most of Tachibanas spies were ethnic Japanese.

Japanese_American Traitors:

Richard Kotoshirodo, a Japanese-American, assisted a Japanese spy ring in Honolulu, which gathered intelligence that was used to design the Pearl Harbor attack. Kotoshirodo stated that at the time he was engaged in his consulate workwork he himself described as espionage activity his loyalties lay with Japan, not the U.S: Noted for saying to the FBI:
Q: Well, what I am trying to get at is this: how did you feel in your own mind up to the war? Did you class yourself as being 100% for Japan, or did you class yourself as being an American.
A: As I recall, I was 100% Japanese.

Tomoyo Kawakita, a translator for the Japanese Army, tortured scores of American POWs held in a Japanese prison camp. After the war, Kawakita returned to the U.S., where he enrolled at the University of Southern California. He was identified by a POW at a Sears department store in Boyle Heights, Calif., who wrote down Kawakitas license plate then notified the FBI. Kawakita was convicted of treason after the war. The number of Japanese-Americans who served in the Japanese military range from 1,648 (the official figure given by the Japanese government) to as high as 7,000.

JayDubya · Dec 5, 2006

After a quick Wiki search, I could name off nineteen foreign national dudes responsible for something pretty heinous too.

Doesn't justify rounding up everyone of similar ethnic background and throwing them into ****ing concentration camps.

Stele · Dec 5, 2006

Do you know what total war means? If there was an American population in Japan, they would have sicced Unit 731 on them*. And you should try reading more than the first sentence.

Note: If there were 7,000 Japanese-Americans serving in the Japanese military (assuming all males, most likely given their chauvinism), and the Japanese population at the time was 120,000, then likely more than 10% of Japanese males were traitors.

*POWs were experimented with in germ warfare, weapons testing, vivisection, etc. etc.

JayDubya · Dec 5, 2006

Stele said:
Unit 731

Okay look. Yes, clearly the Nazis and the Japanese did terrible shit. It doesn't justify our terrible shit just because our terrible shit didn't involve genocide or human experimentation. We took American citizens and threw them into camps on the basis of their ethnicity.

ConfusingJazz · Dec 5, 2006

TAJ said:
Note that those of German and Italian descent were not interned. Purely because they weren't "slant-eyed"? Signs point to yes.

That, and Germans and Italians made a significant portion of the population, while the there weren't that many Japanese.

RaymondCarver · Dec 5, 2006

Why can't we overthrow Bush

Are you in high school?

There are many complicated factors that go into a conflict. Do you not know that Congress authorizes military acts of war? You're fooling yourself if you believe that the commander in chief holds all the say so.

Please, we can not sell ourselves short for simple answers to complex problems.

Here's something you should watch on YouTube to give you some perspective on nearsightedness media purports. See how these two men interact.

One
Two

I can not even begin to detail the reasons, justifications, data, and intelligence for things done in a time of war. The one thing I know is that I'm glad I'm alive. If that took my past and present leaders fighting the evils of other governments, their agents, and spies, then so be it.

I don't like that the innocent sometimes get caught in the action of crossfire. I hope it does not happen in the future, and I pray for those affected. I wish peace for everyone. It's just not a simple matter to get there.

JayDubya · Dec 5, 2006

Synbios459 said:
Found a cool quote by Lincoln: "Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution of the United States as our fathers made it inviolate. The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

Just to comment on this... So ironic coming from Lincoln, and that you're bringing him as some noble individual to put up in contrast to FDR. This guy declared martial law, suspended habeas corpus, and threw thousands of citizens in jail without trial. :-/

I don't know where I stand on Lincoln overall, really, but he's guilty a lot of the same shit, certainly not someone to throw up in contrast when we're talking about presidents guilty of authoritarian abuse of power.

DeathCabCute · Dec 5, 2006

Same way we get away with detaining people without trial indefinitely. This includes US citizens now as long as they're labeled "enemy combatants". All nice and legal, thanks congress.

How we get away with it is basically mass propaganda, mass hysteria, and a naive populace that believes we have a "free" media that works on our behalf. Where was this free media when desert storm 2 happened, where is it now?

Best sources for independent media are now online or public tv. Don't watch CNN, MSNBC, FOXNEWS(especially), or any other major media outlet.

Synbios459 said:
Found a cool quote by Lincoln: "Our safety, our liberty, depends upon preserving the Constitution of the United States as our fathers made it inviolate. The people of the United States are the rightful masters of both Congress and the courts, not to overthrow the Constitution, but to overthrow the men who pervert the Constitution."

We have to remember that the country was young in Lincoln's day and considered an experiment to most of the world. If he allowed the civil war, which refused to call it by the way, tear apart the country there may not be an America today. Right now we're a super power fighting a bunch of "foreign" rebels, but we've had more violations on our rights than what Lincoln incurred. Bush is no Lincoln and isn't preventing the collapse of America like Lincoln did.

Stele · Dec 5, 2006

JayDubya said:
I don't know where I stand on Lincoln overall, really, but he's guilty a lot of the same shit.

That's what makes them great. If everything worked out, and they did, then history reflects kindly upon them. The Japanese internment probably isn't even in the top 50 of World War II tragedies, especially considering an alarming percentage of the population were traitors.

iidesuyo · Dec 5, 2006

terrene said:
It's kind of amazing that such a bitter enemy as Japan during WWII could turn into the friend they are today. The internment, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and our occupation -- it all seems like water under a distant bridge even though it was only 60 short years ago. America really takes the gloves off after it's been attacked. :/

Tokyo in 1945:

I wonder how anyone managed to actually survive this.

But one should note that the Japanese themselves bombed cities, in Chongqin about 5000 people died.

Phoenix · Dec 5, 2006

monchi-kun said:
the GAF reason - There weren't enough anime fans to protest against the detainment

the REAL reason - The United States was less rational back then

To be honest, the US isn't a whole lot more rational now.

JayDubya · Dec 5, 2006

Stele said:
That's what makes them great. If everything worked out, and they did, then history reflects kindly upon them. The Japanese internment probably isn't even in the top 50 of World War II tragedies, especially considering an alarming percentage of the population were traitors.

So you're basically saying that history is written by the victors?

So basically in the moment, almost any misdeed is justified as long as you win and get them to write the textbooks about you in a favorable light?

Do you not realize you're basically proving my point that these two are vastly overrated because their sins were glossed over by history and that school children are typically taught to deify them?

whytemyke · Dec 5, 2006

Triumph Dolomite 1300cc said:
I dunno, ask the people who are saying we should kill all the muslims after 9/11.

to be fair, I advocated wholesale destruction of the middle east way before 9/11 happened.

Stele · Dec 5, 2006

iidesuyo said:
But one should note that the Japanese themselves bombed cities, in Chongqin about 5000 people died.

Understatement of the year. Chongqing was the most bombed city in World War II. Well over 200 air raids if I recall. And I think you mean at least 5,000 bombs dropped. :lol

Do you not realize you're basically proving my point that these two are vastly overrated because their sins were glossed over by history and that school children are typically taught to deify them?

I don't know what state you're in, but I received a fairly balanced view of Lincoln and Roosevelt in terms of U.S. history cirriculum.

Phoenix · Dec 5, 2006

terrene said:
It's kind of amazing that such a bitter enemy as Japan during WWII could turn into the friend they are today. The internment, Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and our occupation -- it all seems like water under a distant bridge even though it was only 60 short years ago. America really takes the gloves off after it's been attacked. :/

The biggest thing is that after the war was over, the US came in and helped restore the country. When you don't just 'walk away' after you've blow the crap out of your enemy, and you treat them as a partner in recovery - you will accomplish great things and change even the harshest opinions. The Japanese people were also very accomodating in all this. For the most part they accepted defeat, that the war was over, and that it was time to move on. Culturally they were able to put it behind them and kudos to them for having a cultural psyche that could do that.

Regarding internment: no, it was not the right thing to do. It was surely a brute force solution (to the problem of infiltration/surveillance) that could've been done smarter through covert programs -- and that's before you get to the civil rights questions. Bleagh.

Not really - not at that time any way. While it certainly wasn't the right thing to do, intelligence gathering came of age DURING WWII. Prior to it, there were no really robust or sophisticated domestic or foreign intelligence programs.

WrathOfOtaibah · Dec 5, 2006

Reagan I believe gave reparations to the Japanese who lived in the camps in the 1980s.

The truth is that during war, the Presidents have always turned against the people. Bush and the Patriot Act is nothing new.

You had the Sedition Act of the late 1790s which basically meant that you could not speak out against the US or else you were imprisoned.

Mexican War was horrible. Read about it.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus, and had the Navy fire shells into New York City. Besides, he said he wished that it was possible to have slavery and preserve the union. This is not exactly the kind of guy you want to deify. Many do anyway.

There was the Espionage Act during WWI which was to target those who worked against the US. All they did was arrest and imprison the Socialist party (which had its largest backing in the Midwest, which is funny considering how right wing the Midwest is today) and union leaders.

JayDubya is right. A lot of US history is whitewashed and glorified. Apple pie patriotism that basically teaches that Americans never lost a war and always brings good to the world. Stele, your instructors may have taken a different route but in my school, until I took an elective class on the truth of US history, I would have thought that the Revolution was populist, Lincoln wanted to free the slaves, and that Reagan ended communism.

Right now, KBR is building concentration camps in several locations throughout the US. These could be built as a just in case or they could be ready to start imprisoning groups of people to fight the war on terrorism. Who might these groups be? I don't know.

Stele · Dec 5, 2006

The Experiment said:
JayDubya is right. A lot of US history is whitewashed and glorified. Apple pie patriotism that basically teaches that Americans never lost a war and always brings good to the world. Stele, your instructors may have taken a different route but in my school, until I took an elective class on the truth of US history, I would have thought that the Revolution was populist, Lincoln wanted to free the slaves, and that Reagan ended communism.

You had a course on the truth of U.S. history? Why didn't they just teach on that in the main course? :lol The thing is, I was taught Lincoln swayed with popular agenda and freeing the slaves wasn't exactly one of his ideological drives, say like Al Gore with global warming, and even if I wasn't, it's easy to find out. So that already makes written U.S. history 500% more objective than Japanese ones and most of the world. And that's what life is about, being 10% better than the guys next to you.

iidesuyo · Dec 5, 2006

Stele said:
Understatement of the year. Chongqing was the most bombed city in World War II. Well over 200 air raids if I recall. And I think you mean at least 5,000 bombs dropped. :lol

So I googled a bit and the number of casualties greatly differs from source to source... from 5000 to 24000. But obviously it were more than 5000 people killed.

http://www.newsgd.com/news/china1/200603310010.htm
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-07/19/content_349635.htm

DeathCabCute · Dec 5, 2006

Stele said:
You had a course on the truth of U.S. history? Why didn't they just teach on that in the main course? :lol The thing is, I was taught Lincoln swayed with popular agenda and freeing the slaves wasn't exactly one of his ideological drives, say like Al Gore with global warming, and even if I wasn't, it's easy to find out. So that already makes written U.S. history 500% more objective than Japanese ones and most of the world. And that's what life is about, being 10% better than the guys next to you.

I don't get why people put so much stock into everything they're taught in school as if the word of the teacher is the final word on any subject. When you graduate you are expected to continue your education on your own by obtaining information for yourself rather than having it spoon fed. It's when common sense becomes absolutely necessary unlike in school where it's not needed at all, just great memory.

If everyone only thought what they learned in school there would be no opinions and people would just recite quotes trying to see who remembers more from class.

Nothing to do with the topic of discussion, just a little tangent about truth.

ManaByte · Dec 5, 2006

DeathCabCute said:
I don't get why people put so much stock into everything they're taught in school as if the word of the teacher is the final word on any subject. When you graduate you are expected to continue your education on your own by obtaining information for yourself rather than having it spoon fed. It's when common sense becomes absolutely necessary unlike in school where it's not needed at all, just great memory.

If everyone only thought what they learned in school there would be no opinions and people would just recite quotes trying to see who remembers more from class.

Nothing to do with the topic of discussion, just a little tangent about truth.

I don't get it either. Last year, when it was the 60th anniversary of Hiroshima there was naturally a thread here about it. There was this one apologist in it screaming his head off that the US had no right to drop the bomb because Japan was only two days away from having their own. He stood his ground and wouldn't give up that nugget of stupidity because his professor told him it and his professor has to be right because he's a professor.

Your bolded part is exactly what people do. They only believe what their teacher tells them and are too lazy to actually research something on their own.

Stele · Dec 5, 2006

iidesuyo said:
So I googled a bit and the number of casualties greatly differ from source to source... from 5000 to 24000. But obviously it were more than 5000 people killed.

http://www.newsgd.com/news/china1/200603310010.htm
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-07/19/content_349635.htm

Try thinking about it from a common sense point of view. There were over 6,000 bombing runs on Chongqing over a period greater than 5 years with targets mostly being commercial and residential (Japan's purpose was demoralization, the same as U.S. with the firebombings of Tokyo), not be disrupt war supplies and the bombs were incendiary. Simply put, the numbers are wrong.

WrathOfOtaibah · Dec 5, 2006

Stele said:
Try thinking about it from a common sense point of view. There were over 6,000 bombing runs on Chongqing over a period greater than 5 years with targets mostly being commercial and residential (Japan's purpose was demoralization, the same as U.S. with the firebombings of Tokyo), not be disrupt war supplies and the bombs were incendiary. Simply put, the numbers are wrong.

Its very difficult to be able to accurately track mass death.

Personally, I'd rather die from a nuclear blast than from a Unit 731 experiment.

tnw · Dec 6, 2006

ConfusingJazz said:
That, and Germans and Italians made a significant portion of the population, while the there weren't that many Japanese.

Japanese were also relatively recent immigrants by definition. Japan was totally locked to the outside world until 1867. The Japanese populations were relatively concentrated in certain areas, mainly Hawaii and California. Trying to isolate Germans and Italians would have been a lot more difficult to do and I bet there were a lot more of them.

AlanHemberger · Dec 6, 2006

The Experiment said:
Right now, KBR is building concentration camps in several locations throughout the US. These could be built as a just in case or they could be ready to start imprisoning groups of people to fight the war on terrorism. Who might these groups be? I don't know.

Oh my ****ing Lord, I hope you are joking.

KBR was awarded a contract to build detention centers for Customs and Immigration in the case of of an emergency influx of immigrants.

Example, Mexico is nuked and immigrants flock across the border in masses, they have somewhere to keep all them without losing them all in the general population.

Boogie · Dec 6, 2006

I don't mean this as a dismissal of the American (and Canadian) government's actions towards its Japanese citizens, but when the question is phrased as:

"So how did America get away with detaining all the Japanese during WWII?"

during a time in which the Nazis were systematically wiping 6 million Jews from the face of the earth and the Japanese are killing Chinese by the tens and hundreds of thousands, and the entire ****ing world is in a state of total war.......then the question sounds a little ****ing naive.

oh, and Phoenix's point about the state of intelligence gathering at the time is a fairly important one too.

TAJ · Dec 6, 2006

>>>That, and Germans and Italians made a significant portion of the population, while the there weren't that many Japanese.<<<

They were in a better position to take over the country than the Japanese-Americans were, then, lol.

ChrisReid · Dec 6, 2006

Synbios459 said:
So what are your alls thoughts on it? Do you think Rosevelt did the right thing?

What the hell? How can you seriously ask that? Are you really asking if locking up many tens of thousands of loyal American citizens in concentration camps because of irrational bigotry was "the right thing?"

davepoobond · Dec 6, 2006

they said sorry

AdmiralViscen · Dec 6, 2006

JayDubya said:
Okay look. Yes, clearly the Nazis and the Japanese did terrible shit. It doesn't justify our terrible shit just because our terrible shit didn't involve genocide or human experimentation. We took American citizens and threw them into camps on the basis of their ethnicity.

I dunno man, I"m pretty sure genocide and human experimentation and having camps where people got thrown into ditches full of human shit, riddled with bullets, is different from camps where people just sat around until the war was over.

Unconstitutional, ****ed up, racist, yes. But no, not on the same plane as our opponents, so I don't know why people are shocked that Japan has forgiven us.

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