That sucks. I always fear that might happen when my system freezes. Had it a few times back when the new store launched.
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What browser will PS4 ship with?
- Thread starter Oppo
- Start date
That sucks. I always fear that might happen when my system freezes. Had it a few times back when the new store launched.
LiquidMetal14
hide your water-based mammals
Would be great to view Youtube or any flash/HTML5 based site on the browser with no compromise.
Oppo
Member
I think pretty much any decent net-connected device needs some sort of browser hook these days. Don't think so much for the user to surf, although there is that, as much as things like marketing pages or interstitial pages that publishers/devs can link to, or cross-linking like iTunes does from web links, things like that.
If you've got a capable browser you also inherit all the fun things on the web. Like the PS3 has never needed a Twitter or Gmail client, because it has a browser.
Xperia Z is a Android device(Google OS) so it makes sense that it uses Chrome.
Dr. Zoidberg
Member
Probably, but I'd hope that it doesn't crash the system all the time like PS3 browser does. I have to get up and hold the power button down to get it to turn off.
IchigoSharingan
Member
this.......mother god damn coffee spilling THIS!
-Pyromaniac-
Member
obv answer is obv
jeff_rigby
Banned
Facts:
News - GStreamer OpenMAX IL wrapper plugin 1.0.0 release 3/22/2013 and we got a PS3 Firmware update on the 21st.
2/22/2012 Video on Gstreamer 1.0:
1) Sony uses Gstreamer to play TV video on their Google TV (Gstreamer Very integrated into the TV) @ 2:30 min.
2) "We are about to release Gstreamer 1.0." @ 3:45.
3) Started talking about Gstreamer 1.0 in 2007 @5:50 (2007 Collabora proposed Gstreamer for HTML5 <video> with Cairo bindings in GTKwebkit, two months later Sony sent Collabora a PS3 developer kit late 2007, in 2007 OpenMax 1.2 was projected for 2008 but was delayed from 2008 till Nov 2011. Big issue for GST - OpenMax was memory management which Openmax 1.2 addressed. In another talk Collabora/Gstreamer 1.0 employee commented on the extreme amount of time getting standards approved through Khronos (OpenMax) ).
4) 2006-on and Texas Instruments, Nokia and others were doing research on using Gstreamer via OpenMax framework which resulted in GST-OpenMax and exposed the issues that needed to be addressed in both Gstreamer and OpenMax.
5) 2009 a Gstreamer DASH ultraviolet DRM player was released using Marlin DRM.
6) From 2009, maybe earlier, Sony has been using OpenVG & Pixman for the XMB and AVM+ (Open source for non commercial use Flash video player which uses OpenVG) for Non-commercial video and Dash IPTV.
7) Sept 29th 2010 Sony publishes open Source Webkit javascript engine as required. Inside the disclosures it's found to be a GTKwebkit version.
8) Feb 2011 Khronos published the webGL 1.0 specs and Sony published more Webkit updates and Cairo (Cairo versions are tied to WebGL specs to support WebGL webkit) Inside new disclosures is edited GTK Chrome to POSIX chrome. NEWs picks this up and Chrome coming to the PS3 races around the world.
9) Sony is to use what player for commercial DASH and AR?
As mentioned, Vita got a GPU accelerated browser and both the Vita and PS3 are using GTKwebkit2 APIs. To this point the PS3 browser is CPU only not GPU accelerated and has no OpenGLES/Cairo support (uses OpenVG which by design is the 2D portion of Cairo with a couple of minor changes).
Gstreamer now has official GST-OpenMax support and the PS3 and Vita use OpenMax IL as the video player back ends.
A few days ago Google's Chrome OS got the new HTML5 DRM proposed by Netflix/Google/Microsoft and Netflix is now available on the Chrome OS.
Speculation: The PS3 uses OpenMax IL as the back end for video media and has/is using Flash AVM+ for the front end. It may switch to Gstreamer - Openmax because Gstreamer appears to be a standard front end for video players in Opera, Firefox, Sony TVs, GTKwebkit and more.
What comes to the PS3 will likely be used on the PS4.
News - GStreamer OpenMAX IL wrapper plugin 1.0.0 release 3/22/2013 and we got a PS3 Firmware update on the 21st.
2/22/2012 Video on Gstreamer 1.0:
1) Sony uses Gstreamer to play TV video on their Google TV (Gstreamer Very integrated into the TV) @ 2:30 min.
2) "We are about to release Gstreamer 1.0." @ 3:45.
3) Started talking about Gstreamer 1.0 in 2007 @5:50 (2007 Collabora proposed Gstreamer for HTML5 <video> with Cairo bindings in GTKwebkit, two months later Sony sent Collabora a PS3 developer kit late 2007, in 2007 OpenMax 1.2 was projected for 2008 but was delayed from 2008 till Nov 2011. Big issue for GST - OpenMax was memory management which Openmax 1.2 addressed. In another talk Collabora/Gstreamer 1.0 employee commented on the extreme amount of time getting standards approved through Khronos (OpenMax) ).
4) 2006-on and Texas Instruments, Nokia and others were doing research on using Gstreamer via OpenMax framework which resulted in GST-OpenMax and exposed the issues that needed to be addressed in both Gstreamer and OpenMax.
5) 2009 a Gstreamer DASH ultraviolet DRM player was released using Marlin DRM.
6) From 2009, maybe earlier, Sony has been using OpenVG & Pixman for the XMB and AVM+ (Open source for non commercial use Flash video player which uses OpenVG) for Non-commercial video and Dash IPTV.
7) Sept 29th 2010 Sony publishes open Source Webkit javascript engine as required. Inside the disclosures it's found to be a GTKwebkit version.
8) Feb 2011 Khronos published the webGL 1.0 specs and Sony published more Webkit updates and Cairo (Cairo versions are tied to WebGL specs to support WebGL webkit) Inside new disclosures is edited GTK Chrome to POSIX chrome. NEWs picks this up and Chrome coming to the PS3 races around the world.
9) Sony is to use what player for commercial DASH and AR?
As mentioned, Vita got a GPU accelerated browser and both the Vita and PS3 are using GTKwebkit2 APIs. To this point the PS3 browser is CPU only not GPU accelerated and has no OpenGLES/Cairo support (uses OpenVG which by design is the 2D portion of Cairo with a couple of minor changes).
Gstreamer now has official GST-OpenMax support and the PS3 and Vita use OpenMax IL as the video player back ends.
A few days ago Google's Chrome OS got the new HTML5 DRM proposed by Netflix/Google/Microsoft and Netflix is now available on the Chrome OS.
Speculation: The PS3 uses OpenMax IL as the back end for video media and has/is using Flash AVM+ for the front end. It may switch to Gstreamer - Openmax because Gstreamer appears to be a standard front end for video players in Opera, Firefox, Sony TVs, GTKwebkit and more.
What comes to the PS3 will likely be used on the PS4.
AuthenticM
Member
I hope it's Firefox.
Psycho_Mantis
Banned
Xperia comes with google chrome no.....maybe PS4 will.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Top Firefox OS bloke flames Opera for WebKit surrender
Both the PS3 and Vita are using a webkit2 back end with GTKwebkit2 APIs and NetFront Front ends >> See the Net-FRONT name, they develop the front end.
There are several Sony Job postings for a WebMAF developer (Mozilla Archive Format) OR Mozilla application framework??
Mozilla Archive Format
You can view and save MHT (MHTML) files, with excellent compatibility with Internet Explorer; but more importantly, you can use the MAFF file format, with the following advantages:
— Save disk space, since MAFF files are compressed
— Include video and audio embedded in the pages
— Be universal, since MAFF is based on ZIP and compatible with Linux and other platforms
— Use an open format, with no risk of vendor lock-in
The MAFF format is exceptional when combined with the built-in browser support for the Ogg Vorbis and Ogg Theora media formats in web pages: you can save everything in a single file. You can even save more than one tab in a single MAFF file.
PS4 includes a ZIP hardware accelerator so this seems likely.
Mozilla Application Framework uses the Geko engine which is not in the PS3 or likely the PS4.
Less Likely but the idea and APIs might be the same but using webkit instead of Geko.
No Firefox in the PS3 and likely PS4 because Sony is using Webkit2. Netfront NX browser front end is likely.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Twitter post from Charles Ying: "Sony does a lot of WebKit work nowadays. I can only speculate at what’s powering PS4’s system UI." That's likely a hint hint.
Two years ago Charles Ying was able to post on his work (see below Sept 2011) with the PS3 and Webkit just before the PS3 finally got a Webkit browser (early 2012, I assume a NDA was satisfied). The Trilithium framework used webkit Javascript (HTML) for the UI. Remember a Javascript engine was in the PS3 since PS3 Firmware 3.5. His Linked in web page says this:
Two years ago Charles Ying was able to post on his work (see below Sept 2011) with the PS3 and Webkit just before the PS3 finally got a Webkit browser (early 2012, I assume a NDA was satisfied). The Trilithium framework used webkit Javascript (HTML) for the UI. Remember a Javascript engine was in the PS3 since PS3 Firmware 3.5. His Linked in web page says this:
Hardware accelerated Graphics in Trilithium means the APPs are GPU accelerated and the traditional method would be via Cairo/OpenGLES. This supports speculation that Netflix is using GPU accelerated OpenVG or Cairo (a year ago we saw a 10X UI speed increase after a Netflix update, so fast that it created problems that had to be corrected with a later update.) The PS3 XMB since firmware 3.0 has been GPU accelerated OpenVG.
Trilithium is the fuel that powers the Starship Enterprise, in this case as in commercial enterprise.http://www.satine.org/archives/2011/09/27/playstation-web-app/ said:
No, MS has no exclusives!
Ehh... Well. it takes more than an x86-compatible cpu to make a PC an IBM-compatible PC... just look at Intel-Macs.
Where is a current build for Opera Desktop with chrome-engine? Also it always was the gui/interface which makes Opera better than others.
HolyBaikal
Banned
I'm having a nostalgia trip.
Probably something terrible and not worth using, just like last time.
jeff_rigby
Banned
Opera is now based on Webkit not the Chrome engine which is also misleading. Chrome is the part of a browser front end that the user sees like the Chrome on a car is the detail that makes the car more attractive, it's the User interface bars, buttons and trim around windows. In most webkit browsers it's created with Vector Graphics either OpenVG or Cairo. OpenVG is considered the 2D portion of of vector graphics but the shading can be GPU accelerated.
The PS3 XMB is created using XML (Extensible markup language) which uses GPU accelerated OpenVG and pixman.
This is a PDF describing in very simple terms OpenVG on Android and it applies to the PS3 XMB. At just about the same time early 2010, Android was getting OpenVG support and the PS3 with Firmware 3.0 got Accelerated OpenVG support.
In 2008 developers were accelerating webkit with OpenVG and later Cairo which is considered an extension (Superset) to OpenVG that supports 3D transformations using OpenGLES. With GPU (OpenGL) acceleration for Cairo the boxes/lines/fill and vector graphics are drawn using the GPU. OpenVG is a lighter less resource intensive subset of Cairo.
I wish it was lynx on their linux partition.
Oh good, someone mentioned lynx
I think the big question here is who actually browses the web from their PS3/360?
It'll only be usable over dial-up.
No one.
It'll only be usable over dial-up.
I have no idea what this means. Making a PC a PC? IBM compatible? Intel Macs run Windows and Linux just fine...?
jeff_rigby
Banned
The System UI and Apps all use either webkit or the native libraries that support webkit. The Screen shots of the social features in the PS4 are also webkit UIs.
chrome has horrible gif support, so I'd rather have opera again.
Chuck Norris
Banned
I've used it to watch stuff on my TV. I would use it even more if it were functional
I was only making a comment on the web browser for the PS4, not necessarily the overall UI. I'm fine if they use webkit as a base for pretty much everything since it's worked out well for the PS3 and Vita. I just don't know of anyone who actually browses uses the web browser app on either system.
So you just can install Windows on your intel-mac? Doubt so... See it like this: you can't install Windows on the motorola razr I, *although* it runs an x86-cpu.
You've never heard of people installing Windows on their Intel Macs?
You've never heard that Bootcamp is necessary for this? You don't know what Bootcamp actually does?
DLNA? if you mean content.
I said chrome as it was always said that Opera will use V8, too, which is, to my knowledge, not part of webkit.
Oppo
Member
Bootcamp is just a boot loader, isn't it? Macs are PCs with custom firmware. Windows runs natively. Or am I missing something...?
The first draft of my post was just going to be a link to Bootcamp, but I was more curious about how adamant you were that you can't install Windows on Macs. It's just a bootloader that emulates a BIOS for OSs that can't boot off of EFI, not the best example for explaining why a PS4 might not be able to run Windows. There's even open-source bootloaders like rEFIt that do the same thing, it's hardly magic.
I don't think we're missing anything, otherwise rEFIt wouldn't exist.
Oops, I should have been more specific. I meant like AirPlay mirroring.
This is just one point where it starts: The bootloader. If there is no BIOS there will most probably no Windows on PS4 (although some Windows can boot on EFI but I think Sony will implement neither BIOS nor EFI). There are other things that are required for a working Windows (leave aside drivers, of course).
And you didn't mention the partition table: OSX boots with EFI and a GUID partition table. To make Windows boot you have to emulate a BIOS and let Windows boot off another partition within the first for the almighty MBR.
Dead Prince
Banned
only if it gets constant update.
sono
Member
I would assume same browser as PS3 with the benefit of some working memory..
The PS3 browser has been steadily (snails pace) improving to the point where since 4.40 it hasnt crashed console for me. It is also works well enough to post on NeoGAF using the standard (not mobile) site and some other sites that previously it had trouble with.
I would therefore hope that Sony have some lessons here for the PS4 browser.
I do really like the way you can zoom in and out and move around the page using the PS3 controller so I hope they retain that feature. I like browsing the web on TV from my comfy couch using PS3 controller.
The PS3 browser has been steadily (snails pace) improving to the point where since 4.40 it hasnt crashed console for me. It is also works well enough to post on NeoGAF using the standard (not mobile) site and some other sites that previously it had trouble with.
I would therefore hope that Sony have some lessons here for the PS4 browser.
I do really like the way you can zoom in and out and move around the page using the PS3 controller so I hope they retain that feature. I like browsing the web on TV from my comfy couch using PS3 controller.
I actually expect PS Mobile to get supported on the PS4. It seems like the best explanation for the touch pad on the DS4, since it seems like none of the games shown so far use it for much. Only problem is PS Mobile doesn't allow C or C++ wrapped in Java, it has to be all interpreted language, so any browsers will be pretty limited.
Damn that shit brings me back. I remember using that browser to download a Pokemon Blue emulator over dial up connection. Took all day but holy shit I remember being impressed.
Firefox or Chrome and I'd be very happy (or whatever except the one we have today).
And I reaaaaaally want the option of pausing the game, go the browser and return to the game...
It's very useful on Vita when you are following a guide, for example.
Make it happen, Sony.
And I reaaaaaally want the option of pausing the game, go the browser and return to the game...
It's very useful on Vita when you are following a guide, for example.
Make it happen, Sony.
jeff_rigby
Banned
The webkit backend in the PS3 and Vita are nearly identical to the webkit backend in Opera and Chrome. The front end differences are what I think you are complaining about. The APIs published for GTKwebkit2 allow the front end features in the Vita and PS3, this is why following GTKwebkit2 allows us to see what might be coming in the near term.
BUT:
1) Sony will not implement features that create security issues.
2) Sony implements features when they become industry STANDARDS and APIs for those standards have been implemented for GTKwebkit2.
3) Sony wants the browsers to be attractive but the goal is to make money so we can expect features that make Sony money to be implemented when Sony has the infrastructure in place to take advantage of those features.
A lightweight browser can be created using OpenVG that supports SVG. A lightweight browser is all that is needed to support a OS UI. This is a PDF describing in very simple terms OpenVG on Android and it applies to the PS3 XMB. At just about the same time early 2010, Android was getting OpenVG support and the PS3 with Firmware 3.0 got Accelerated OpenVG support. You don't need Cairo support for a lightweight OS UI based on SVG (Browser desktop).
for androvsky said:
Ongoing disagreement Browser desktop:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37156120&postcount=470
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=37156731&postcount=471
Gstreamer used in PS3 for HTML5 DASH
Three years now since 2010 and I asked the question on BY3D; "Will the PS3 have a Browser desktop?" and in the BY3D webkit HTML5 coming to consoles predicted Webkit, then AVM+ used for the DASH player then Gstreamer used for the DASH player and Cairo in the PS3 to support a browser desktop. It looks like OpenVG instead of Cairo but everything else sill might be coming to the PS3 and for sure from screenshots for the PS4. Lots of stumbles in the assumptions corrected by Massa.
It's a decent browser.