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GaimeGuy · Oct 29, 2004

Vagabond said:
The GameGear was horribly put together. I am willing to put money that if the GameGear had rechargeable batteries and multimedia capabilities that it would still be alive in some form even today.

Portable multimedia devices weren't popular yet then. Who knows how it would have turned out?

And there WERE rechargable battery packs for the thing. Sure, you had to shell out an extra $20 ( I think) for them, but they WERE there. Considering with the PSP, you'll need to shell out an extra ~$20 for a memory stick to save your games, I think both systems have faults that cancel each other out or can be seen as parallels.

Renegade · Oct 29, 2004

Society said:
I hate .net. The functionality would be nice tho.

It has some gaming-related uses too. Imagine being near a computer running some upgraded form of XP or the successor to XP with your GBA successor in your pocket, and the computer recognizes your .net signature and connects you to another person near the Bluetooth access point, like an invisible link cable connecting without your knowledge. Another person connected to the same ghost network, or even the computer user themselves, get a warning that you have joined the network. Then they buzz your GBA successor and challenge you to a game of their choosing, or chat with you kind of like MSN messenger or Xbox live. That would be awesome.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

The deal between Microsoft and Nintendo fell through because Microsoft wanted a complete buy-out.

That's just ridiculous on their part, because Nintendo is one of the most profitable and well run Japanese corporations. It's never gonna happen.

You might as well ask the Lakers to trade Kobe Bryant. Sure there's some questionable attributes there, but at the end of the day such a commodity is far too valuable.

With Nintendo you never know what kind of mega franchise they'll come up with outta no where -- Super Mario, Zelda, and Pokemon all came without warning.

If they could come to some time of agreement to jointly support a hardware platform though, wherein they share costs and profit off the said platform and MS signs a "We won't try to buy you" type clause (lol), then yeah I think it would be great for both parties.

They both have such egos, but I think Microsoft, being more of a friendly/rich "tourist" in the game market would be willing to make some accomodations understanding that Nintendo is a strict, Japanese game company and this is their home turf.

GaimeGuy · Oct 29, 2004

GFord said:
Well, look at it this way.

With PSP you can play portable port's of PS2 games (GT4, Hot Shots Golf) at near PS2 graphical quality for about $50 more DS.

With DS you can play port's of N64 games (Mario 64, Ridge Racer 64) at near N64 graphical quality for about $50 less then PSP.

Hmmm....current generation portability vs. past/last generation portability?...

Name an N64 port besides Mario 64. Ridge Racer DS is NOT the same thing as RR 64. Although NST, the devs of RR 64, are developing RR DS, they are two completely different games.

Really, the traditional hardware is weaker, but the DS has some extras that, IMO, make up for it. The touch screen, the built in mic, the dual screens, and the Wifi (also in the Psp).

Either way, the software will drive the hardware sales, not the other way around.

Mrbob · Oct 29, 2004

soundwave05 said:
Sony often times will throw huge amounts of money into ventures that take years and years to be profitable ... sometimes they may never make a profit.

They can't.

sporks said:
as a music\movie player psp will fall flat on its face.

It would be nice if the rest of us had your pyschic abilities.

GaimeGuy · Oct 29, 2004

Vagabond said:
It has some gaming-related uses too. Imagine being near a computer running some upgraded form of XP or the successor to XP with your GBA successor in your pocket, and the computer recognizes your .net signature and connects you to another person near the Bluetooth access point, like an invisible link cable connecting without your knowledge. Another person connected to the same ghost network, or even the computer user themselves, get a warning that you have joined the network. Then they buzz your GBA successor and challenge you to a game of their choosing, or chat with you kind of like MSN messenger or Xbox live. That would be awesome.

WiFi?

Insertia · Oct 29, 2004

GaimeGuy said:
Portable multimedia devices weren't popular yet then. Who knows how it would have turned out?

And there WERE rechargable battery packs for the thing. Sure, you had to shell out an extra $20 ( I think) for them, but they WERE there. Considering with the PSP, you'll need to shell out an extra ~$20 for a memory stick to save your games, I think both systems have faults that cancel each other out or can be seen as parallels.

:lol

PSP is in a far better position then Gamegear ever was and Sony has a million times more experience in the electronics industry then SEGA (not to mention they've kicked Nintendo's ass twice).

There is no comparision with Gamegear. PSP's faults are nowhere near GG's level. PSP is the biggest threat Nintendo's handheld sector has ever faced.

snapty00 · Oct 29, 2004

Not to mention the oblique insult to developers of PSP software by suggesting they have yet to provide any "fundamental" software. Some of these devs are the same people that Nintendo is happy to list as providing DS software.

Exactly! Their damage-control schemes make NO sense. They might as well say, "If you develop for PSP, you're a fucking retard, even if you do develop on DS, too." Or, "Your software is only good because it's on DS. The fact that you put your hard work into it has nothing to do with it."

I mean, geez. They can do what they want, and I don't suspect there'll be much of a developer response to that statement, but they don't seem to even care.

Renegade · Oct 29, 2004

GaimeGuy said:
Portable multimedia devices weren't popular yet then. Who knows how it would have turned out?

And there WERE rechargable battery packs for the thing. Sure, you had to shell out an extra $20 ( I think) for them, but they WERE there. Considering with the PSP, you'll need to shell out an extra ~$20 for a memory stick to save your games, I think both systems have faults that cancel each other out or can be seen as parallels.

The GameGear used 6 AA batteries. It had horrible form factor. Imagine shelling out 6 bucks every 5 hours for batteries. Not exactly a good thing in any sense. People saw that, not really aware by large of rechargeable batteries as the GameGear completely ignored that in marketing, and were dissued.

If the Neo Geo Pocket Color had backing from some more Western developers and was not prematurely axed I am willing to bet it would have done somewhat decently as well.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

Sony just did this with their buy out of MGM ... a movie studio that's been on-again, off-again profit wise for the past decade or so.

Columbia Studios was a huge money-bleeder for Sony for years, its only been the past few years that its shaped up.

Now their electronics division is struggling a lot.

The point is, Nintendo can't make business decisions in that same fashion.

Renegade · Oct 29, 2004

GaimeGuy said:
WiFi?

No. WiFi is more akin to dialing into a wireless service. There is some manual being done. It does not compare to BlueTooth.

GaimeGuy · Oct 29, 2004

Vagabond said:
No. WiFi is more akin to dialing into a wireless service. There is some manual being done. It does not compare to BlueTooth.

Oops. I completely missed the part about BlueTooth. :|

Lord Error · Oct 29, 2004

The market for HDD based music players is growing, but the market for flash-based music players is not.

That's a big difference. The PSP plays MP3s, but its not a HDD MP3 player.

Yeah, but who cares? Noone is buying PSP primarily to play music or videos. As it happens that it can play both, that much the better. Why not have such simple functions as a secondary capability of a machine that has the hardware capable of performing so much more complex functions?

The point is, Nintendo can't make business decisions in that same fashion

Of course they can. But they don't want to.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

Yeah, but who cares? Noone is buying PSP primarily to play music or videos. As it happens that it can play both, that much the better. Why not have such simple functions as a secondary capability of a machine that has the hardware capable of performing so much more complex functions?

I was saying that in reference to the individual who said the PSP would take away sales from the i-Pod. As you said yourself "no one is buying PSP primarily to play music or videos" and I agree with you. Hence it's not a competitior to the i-Pod directly. I never said having music or video playback as secondary options is a bad idea.

Of course they can. But they don't want to.

Sure they could get into a pissing match with Sony and Microsoft, two companies which are bigger than them, on hardware pricing and features ... but eventually they'd end up in as much debt as Sega was in and the rest of that story writes itself. That was Sega's motto; they were the aggressive little underdog that would keep financing a never ending war with the "big boys" and Sega fanboys loved that cavalier attitude ... unfourtunately CSK eventually said "enough of this bullsh-t" and pulled the plug.

sprsk · Oct 29, 2004

Mrbob said:
They can't.

It would be nice if the rest of us had your pyschic abilities.

people wont be buying the psp as a movie player or a music player.

Renegade · Oct 29, 2004

Imagine: A Gamecube crossed with a GameBoy Advance crossed with one of these babies:

border · Oct 29, 2004

DarthWufei said:
I understand this thinking and all, and why people don't add in those extra costs into the system's price tag. But, I'm willing to bet you won't be spending $200 at launch..

Out of all the shocked fanboy damage control, this is maybe some of the saddest.

$1000 says you don't run through GameCube threads correcting people that it's actually $118 since you need a memory card.....or telling GBA SP buyers that the system isn't actually $79 since you have to buy a friggin' headphone dongle.

People always tout the base price of the system.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

Bungie could port Halo to it too

GaimeGuy · Oct 29, 2004

Border; I'm the only person I know who ever used headphones on his GBA and who uses them on his GBA SP...

TheGreenGiant · Oct 29, 2004

Marconelly said:
Yeah, but who cares? Noone is buying PSP primarily to play music or videos. As it happens that it can play both, that much the better. Why not have such simple functions as a secondary capability of a machine that has the hardware capable of performing so much more complex functions?

Of course they can. But they don't want to.

you're mistaking Nintendo for SEGA

Lord Error · Oct 29, 2004

No. WiFi is more akin to dialing into a wireless service. There is some manual being done. It does not compare to BlueTooth.

Actually it does. The functionality that you described is how PSP works, described by EA game developers. As soon as you get to play the game with wireless support, the PSP discovers all teh available devices in the vicinity and sends an invitation.

Imagine: A Gamecube crossed with a GameBoy Advance crossed with one of these babies:

Imagine the price of that. That pocket Media Player has a HDD in it, and those things are not cheap. Maybe sometimes in the future, all that will be cheap enough that Nintendo would be willing to put it in a handheld aimed at market with such low disposabel income as children, but I don't see it being anytime soon. Also, think about dropping such device with HDD in it...

Insertia · Oct 29, 2004

sp0rsk said:
people wont be buying the psp as a movie player or a music player.

Of course not. But people will buy a game system that plays video and mp3.

sprsk · Oct 29, 2004

Insertia said:
Of course not. But people will buy a game system that plays video and mp3.

you can lead a horse to water.

Mrbob · Oct 29, 2004

sp0rsk said:
people wont be buying the psp as a movie player or a music player.

Unless they do.

Lord Error · Oct 29, 2004

you're mistaking Nintendo for SEGA

No. Sega couldn't afford it, as they simply didn't have money in the bank like Nintendo does. Nintendo actually can do it, and they have a very good reason to do so. The reason of course being to protect their lifeblood.

Spiritreaver · Oct 29, 2004

border said:
Out of all the shocked fanboy damage control, this is maybe some of the saddest.

$1000 says you don't run through GameCube threads correcting people that it's actually $118 since you need a memory card.....or telling GBA SP buyers that the system isn't actually $79 since you have to buy a friggin' headphone dongle.

People always tout the base price of the system.

I'm not exactly trying to use it as damage control. And now I'm a fanboy? Christ, read some of my posts, I'm getting a PSP myself and I've even considered importing. And I didn't at all say the PSP is $250, did I? I said the PSP and the bundle is and that's what everyone should be buying. Infact, you seemed to have completely taking my post out of context which is a problem many people on these forums have. I said the $250 bundle is what people should buy and it's the GOOD deal. I even stated I wanted people to look at that price rather than the $200 price tag NOT because it moves it away from the DS price, but because they get much more for the price. Not JUST the PSP, they can get that memory stick, and some extra accessories.

Christ, some of YOU fanboys seem to take any little comment against a system as a sad and pathetic argument. And some of YOU hypocritical anti-fanboys are quite quick in assuming people are something they are not. Read my post again if you want. I made that $300 + accessory argument before, but only once, and I was quickly corrected because people don't take that kind of thinking into their own hands. While I disagree that it's not part of the system cost, it essentially is, but I feel like no longer issuing that argument any longer. And secondly, I have complained about this in console threads for them all but xbox. I hate memory cards and anything of the sort. It's a required added cost regardless of you, or anyone wants to construe it.

If you want overroten assumptions, maybe YOU and many of these other doomsayers need to take a break and calm it down. I have yet to see any fucking reason why any current portable game system is going to flat drop dead once another releases. I also see perfectly good reason to purchase a GBA, DS, PSP, or even all three. I've argued about this shitty fanboyism for a good while. It's pointless and it's just silly, and THAT'S sad. The fact that people have such serious personal problems with a fucking company and its way of doing business that they hinder themselves from a good time is mind boggling. Infact, I feel damned sorry that anyone is not getting them all. Casual gamers are more worthy of the gamer title than any scoffy fanboy. You'll miss out on the golden games of the GB/C era, the unique DS titles, and the powerful and deep PSP games. You don't however and you call people flipping idiots for thinking otherwise. That's far more sad than any claim I can make, as it's far more fucking baseless than any argument you tried to pull out of my post.

soundwave05 · Oct 29, 2004

Do what exactly?

Taking a $100 loss on a unit if you're going to sell 4-5 million of them in a few months is a $400-$500 million dollar loss right there.

When you report that to your shareholders, since you have no other divisions to counter balance things, your share price will plummet.

If Sega had a cash mountain they still would've spent it into the ground.

Of course their fanbase loved that "give 'em hell!!!" attitude that the underdog Sega had, but they weren't quite so happy when CSK killed the Dreamcast and kicked Sega to the curb leaving them to be picked up by .... Sammy.

Renegade · Oct 29, 2004

Marconelly said:
Actually it does. The functionality that you described is how PSP works, described by EA game developers. As soon as you get to play the game with wireless support, the PSP discovers all teh available devices in the vicinity and sends an invitation.

I did not know that. However, it can be expanded into several other areas. The situation I described is most plausible. Also, from what I understand, it is not an automatic thing in PSP games, meaning both users have to be searching simultaneously. The functionality I described is a bit more expanded, incorporating PC elements.

Another example of what BlueTooth offers: Imagine connecting to the internet on your GBA successor via your cell phone. If your cell phone is Blue tooth enabled you could dial out right on your GBAsuccessor with no connects in between. Or using a bluetooth enabled PC or MP3 player for music storage in games for a custom soundtrack in Tony Hawk or any other number of games.

Imagine the price of that. That pocket Media Player has a HDD in it, and those things are not cheap. Maybe sometimes in the future, all that will be cheap enough that Nintendo would be willing to put it in a handheld aimed at market with such low disposabel income as children, but I don't see it being anytime soon. Also, think about dropping such device with HDD in it...

That sometime in the future is very soon, IMO. Perhaps without the 20+GB HD as the PMC includes, but some sort of storage. I imagine a 256MB GBA successor with the aforementioned capabilities, however that would be heavily dependant on progress with optical media/Gamecube hardware. I still think it is possible, though, at a 150-199 pricepoint.

border · Oct 29, 2004

GaimeGuy said:
3rd party support just as good as the PSP is getting,

Huh? I don't think it undermines what you are trying to say that much, but I seriously don't remember the friggin' Game Gear getting any support from Japanese 3rd parties. Out of the big companies that existed back then (Capcom, Konami, etc), I don't remember any of them putting any of their major franchises on the GG. I don't remember them on GG at all, though I'm not entirely sure about it. Western dev support was pretty much an afterthought was well.

I believe the GameGear was more or less an SMS in a tiny box (in terms of what the hardware was)....not at all close to "Genesis" graphics. That's why they released that SMS game adapter.

Border; I'm the only person I know who ever used headphones on his GBA and who uses them on his GBA SP...

So everybody else just sits around in public letting the speakers blare? They get on airplanes and force everyone in the row to listen to blingy MIDI music? They annoy everyone in the vehicle on a long range car trip? It's great fun being such an unabashed asshole, but I think that for most people, headphones are a pretty necessary part of the portable experience.

nitewulf · Oct 29, 2004

this about wraps it up for the DS. seriously.

border · Oct 29, 2004

Christ, read some of my posts

--NintendoDS avatar
-- has panties in a twist because people are talking about attractive $200 pricetag
-- applying ludicrous double standard that has never before been applied to any console or handheld ("C'mon, you gotta factor in the cost of the accessories!").

It was close enough to "fanboy" for me, mainly due to the weird illogical price niggling (do people really need to be reminded that they will spend more than the base hardware cost at launch?). Sorry if I was off.

krypt0nian · Oct 29, 2004

nitewulf said:
this about wraps it up for the DS. seriously.

Prepare to eat DrinkyCrow. Handheld buyers don't care about graphics prowess.

Spiritreaver · Oct 29, 2004

border said:
--NintendoDS avatar
-- has panties in a twist because people are talking about attractive $200 pricetag
-- applying ludicrous double standard that has never before been applied to any console or handheld ("C'mon, you gotta factor in the cost of the accessories!").

It was close enough to "fanboy" for me, mainly due to the weird illogical price niggling (do people really need to be reminded that they will spend more than the base hardware cost at launch?). Sorry if I was off.

I can see how it can be taken the wrong way yes, but do you read people's entire posts before you respond? It's almost as if you didn't take a single word of my last, or the post before that, into consideration. Especially when my original post showed that I wasn't strictly for one system or another. Maybe I was a tad insulted because since my first posts here, I've been generally against fanboyism and have been trying to step away from that myself. Infact, since the PSP announcement I've thought about getting it. I've never denied that I wouldn't, but it just wouldn't have been at launch until now.

If I need to justify the logo, than god point a gun to my head. I like it, it looks slick. I like the DS as well. Eh, whatever, I have a different outlook on life and other people. The whole, "If it looks, walks, and talks like a duck" way of thinking isn't myself so I take offense sometimes when people think differently, as it's perfectly clear to me as something else.

EDIT: And grr, to elaborate about how I felt about PSP before the price announcement. It had always been a "wait till the pricedrop" kind of thing for me. I'm just as happy about the price announcement as anyone else. This means I can actually get one at launch now, and not have to wait. I was even one of the first responders to the damn announcement thread.

Son of Godzilla · Oct 29, 2004

border said:
So everybody else just sits around in public letting the speakers blare? They get on airplanes and force everyone in the row to listen to blingy MIDI music? They annoy everyone in the vehicle on a long range car trip? It's great fun being such an unabashed asshole, but I think that for most people, headphones are a pretty necessary part of the portable experience.

Sound isn't a necessary part of the portable experience.

nitewulf · Oct 29, 2004

uh huh, and now ppl who never even bothered to look at a handheld will be buying PSPs, case in point, me.

shpankey · Oct 29, 2004

I agree... ^^^ I am also one of those people who never used a handheld but PSP swayed me to get it.

PSP for me. DS just looks clunky IMO and I think the dual screens is just gimmicky... pass.

SolidSnakex · Oct 29, 2004

krypt0nian said:
Prepare to eat DrinkyCrow. Handheld buyers don't care about graphics prowess.

Sony's targeting a different group of gamers with the PSP (older gamers mainly). It's the best way they could do it, instead of going head on with Nintendo's market, take the back door and get your own market going and then try to bring over the existing market.

Jonnyram · Oct 29, 2004

shpankey said:
...I think the dual screens is just gimmicky... pass.

That's what people said to me when I was one of the first to get dual screens in the office. Now half the office has them...

Son of Godzilla · Oct 29, 2004

Actually how feasible is it to use the PSP as a music player? I recall it being pretty small, small enough to pocket? Having to keep it out is just dumb and really axes any chance of being a portable music player substitute. And I personally wouldn't want something with such a large exposed screen bouncing around in a backpack, no matter how durable it is.

krypt0nian · Oct 29, 2004

nitewulf said:
uh huh, and now ppl who never even bothered to look at a handheld will be buying PSPs, case in point, me.

IF you think that those new hardcore gamers coming over will compensate for those casual handheld buyers then you may have a point. I for one think they don't pose a threat.

If the hardcore audience held such pull then ICO would have sold.

drohne · Oct 29, 2004

if i use the psp as a music player -- and given how often i've dropped my md player, i probably won't -- i'll leave it in the soft case and use the remote. VALUE PACK 4 EVA.

Son of Godzilla · Oct 29, 2004

Oh yea, the case. That might be good.

btrboyev · Oct 29, 2004

uh huh, and now ppl who never even bothered to look at a handheld will be buying PSPs, case in point, me.

Just to ask, why haven't you looked at a handheld before? Surely graphics don't mean everything right?

jiggle · Oct 29, 2004

DarthWufei said:
I'm not exactly trying to use it as damage control. And now I'm a fanboy? Christ, read some of my posts, I'm getting a PSP myself and I've even considered importing. And I didn't at all say the PSP is $250, did I? I said the PSP and the bundle is and that's what everyone should be buying. Infact, you seemed to have completely taking my post out of context which is a problem many people on these forums have. I said the $250 bundle is what people should buy and it's the GOOD deal. I even stated I wanted people to look at that price rather than the $200 price tag NOT because it moves it away from the DS price, but because they get much more for the price. Not JUST the PSP, they can get that memory stick, and some extra accessories.

I got the same impression from reading that. Mainly because I remembered this:

This puppy will not near $400 as that would be about $50 in profit according to what a recent article at PC WATCH suggested.

This comment just stood out a bit, but did you include memory stick prices? It could easily hit over $350 with just that. That is if we keep the $300 price tag speculation.

Are we including accessories/peripheries prices when we're talking console price now? I guess the PSP is pioneering at least one thing.

Well, to be honest, I normally wouldn't, but you really can't enjoy the PSP without one, can you?

Spiritreaver · Oct 29, 2004

jiggle said:
I got the same impression from reading that. Mainly because I remembered this:

This puppy will not near $400 as that would be about $50 in profit according to what a recent article at PC WATCH suggested.

This comment just stood out a bit, but did you include memory stick prices? It could easily hit over $350 with just that. That is if we keep the $300 price tag speculation.

Are we including accessories/peripheries prices when we're talking console price now? I guess the PSP is pioneering at least one thing.

Well, to be honest, I normally wouldn't, but you really can't enjoy the PSP without one, can you?

That's exactlly what I was referring to when I said. "I made the argument before." And I explained that.

EDIT: I can now see this is just a "me" thing as that's why most of you guys feel it isn't a logical thing to claim at all. Not to make this too personal, but I grew up having my mom buy me things. Since I was too young for a job. Well, whenever there was some add on to this video game system I wanted, whether it be a controller or some video adapter that I had to get in order to actually play it. I often got yelled at. So since I've learned to consider these "necessary peripherals" as part of the big cost. I guess that's why it makes sense to me. I've never liked the whole memory card idea, I could live with it last gen witht he PSX and DC, but this and the next gen is starting to grow a little tiresome. That extra bit of money could have been another game to enjoy, or something completely different.

Meh whatever, it's a personal thing apparently and many others do not seem to understand that way of thinking. So be it, take it as that.

Lord Error · Oct 29, 2004

Also, from what I understand, it is not an automatic thing in PSP games, meaning both users have to be searching simultaneously.

No, that's definitely not how the functionality was described.

Another example of what BlueTooth offers: Imagine connecting to the internet on your GBA successor via your cell phone. If your cell phone is Blue tooth enabled you could dial out right on your GBAsuccessor with no connects in between.

I already can do that using my cellphone and Pocket PC (and in fact I did do it couple of times) but be warned - surfing that way is slow. There are of course phones that can access internet pages by themselves, and phone/PDA combos that do that even better, things are moving in that direction, but the major problem is that the network isn't fast enough, and access/transfer fees are too expensive.

Or using a bluetooth enabled PC or MP3 player for music storage in games for a custom soundtrack in Tony Hawk or any other number of games.

This can be done with PPC again (and again I did it), but since the bluetooth is quite slow, it's very impractical. Any MP3 with higher bitrate than 128bps is unplayable, and even 128bps knows to stutter if you're one feet outside of ideal range. Basically, right now, WiFi is your only good choice for function like this. Btw, from some vague comment made by someone at SCE, PSP will probably be able to play the media files from your computer through WiFi.

I actually have, and use several device that support bluetooth, but I feel that the technology, while handy, is really limited and often very unreliable (won't connect every time, has really small range, device incompatibility etc.

Particle Physicist · Oct 29, 2004

Vagabond said:
Compare Spiderman 2 DS (NGage port?) vs Spiderman 2 PSP (Looks like what the DC version would have been

actually Spiderman 2 DS is an original game and looks pretty awesome in motion.

TheGreenGiant · Oct 29, 2004

wait til you buy your new fangled machine and realise you can't play your Britney Spears mp3s on it (without a motherfucker mem stick that is).

The Ipod and DS are 2 better gadgets. As a gaming device; I'm sloppy as - that PSP screen is a nightmare.

But wait and see. I am interested in the machine; more so than I am in its games. However... my interest lies largely in the elite factor. whip it out and have people gawk. But it is embarrassingly huge (also see DS)

seismologist · Oct 29, 2004

nitewulf said:
uh huh, and now ppl who never even bothered to look at a handheld will be buying PSPs, case in point, me.

I think PSP will be alot of new gamer's first handheld. It's a shame because as a veteran handheld gamer I honestly belive the DS will probably be the better product.

PS2 KID · Oct 29, 2004

Jonnyram said:
That's what people said to me when I was one of the first to get dual screens in the office. Now half the office has them...

Yeah, but are those screens side by side or one on top of the other?

plus do you use a stylus to play games on those screens rather than a joystick or mouse or control pad?

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