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Sorc3r3r · May 25, 2013

AOC83 said:
Sony can do what they want, no big publisher is in the position to ignore them because they depend on them. PS is roughly 50% of the console market, most publisher would be dead in the water without PS sales.

Yeah, but they are in a tricky position, can their box survive or be relevant without the big pubblishers?
What will, the costumers they are targeting, do if the ps4 has to live with only the Sony/small studios output?
Is the market really so sensitive about DRM?
I don't know and from a business stand point it's better to play it safe.

But if their box succeed without following the big pubs dictates they will find themself to be the new ruler of the videogames space in a position of strenght that they do not have now and there is the chance, for the pubblishers loyal from the start, to gain a lot of marketshare and to create new succeful ips.
Could also be the ruin of the great pubblishers we have now.

It's a gamble.

I hope for a customer centric policy by Sony, but i think we are going to be very very angry after the E3.

gollumsluvslave · May 25, 2013

My worry in this is that there are very few companies that have the resources and infrastructure to provide console publishers and developers a framework that gives them EVERY sale for a game, not just 1st sale, and Microsoft is one of those (if not the only) company that could pull it off. (Obviously Steam already provides this for pubs on PC, but volume of sales is much less I think)

Obviously no one knows how these things will pan out, but I could see a situation on multiplatform games where 2nd and 3rd months NPDs have Xbone destroying Sony in sales due to every game used or otherwise counting to the published figures.

This would obviously show a very favourable split to MS across multiplatform games, and that is going to appeal to ANY publisher just on raw stats - they will want a piece of that pie. And of course, MS are obviously going to publish the figures for all DD games purchased on top of that too.

Obviously this is all things being equal, and it depends on what the market will bear; it is equally possible that the market rejects Xbone and NPD shows the complete opposite picture.

It's gonna be really interesting watching this unfold, especially for neutrals.

Last Hearth · May 25, 2013

Yeah, I think it's entirely likely this whole used game scheme was pushed onto Microsoft by the big publishers like Activision/EA/Take 2.

Publishers are the ones who have been whining about used games for years, not Microsoft.

AOC83 · May 25, 2013

Sorc3r3r said:
Yeah, but they are in a tricky position, can their box survive or be relevant without the big pubblishers?
What will, the costumers they are targeting, do if the ps4 has to live with only the Sony/small studios output?
Is the market really so sensitive about DRM?
I don't know and from a business stand point it's better to play it safe.

But if their box succeed without following the big pubs dictates they will find themself to be the new ruler of the videogames space in a position of strenght that they do not have now and there is the chance, for the pubblishers loyal from the start, to gain a lot of marketshare and to create new succeful ips.
Could also be the ruin of the great pubblishers we have now.

It's a gamble.

I hope for a customer centric policy by Sony, but i think we are going to be very very angry after the E3.

But that´s not going to happen. FIFA is selling the biggest part of it´s 14 million on PS3, CoD should be about 10 million on PS3, GTA too. And the list goes on.
None of the big publishers is in the position to skip the Playstation. They would get killed in the process.

Sorc3r3r · May 25, 2013

AOC83 said:
But that´s not going to happen. FIFA is selling the biggest part of it´s 14 million on PS3, CoD should be about 10 million on PS3, GTA too. And the list goes on.
None of the big publishers is in the position to skip the Playstation. They would get killed in the process.

You are right but everyone is starting from zero right now.

AOC83 · May 25, 2013

Sorc3r3r said:
You are right but everyone is starting from zero right now.

We still got the PS3 for a couple of years and that´s what Sony could use to pressure any publisher that threatens them with no PS4 support.

That aside i think noone would make such a huge gamble that has an enomous chance to backfire. Imagine the PS4 becomes a huge success and publisher xy didn´t support it from the get go. These things can kill a company.

Last Hearth · May 25, 2013

Sure they a ton of money from Sony machines. But they can continue to make games for the PS3. The PS4 is going to have a very small user base anyway (for quite some time), it's not like they are going to lose the bulk of their sales if they skipped the PS4.

I am not saying they would, but people are talking as if they would lose 50% of their sales on Fifa/Madden if they skipped the PS4 on their next iteration, when it's more like 5%-10% max.

It's going to be a game of chicken to see who blinks first.

AOC83 · May 25, 2013

Last Hearth said:
Sure they a ton of money from Sony machines. But they can continue to make games for the PS3. The PS4 is going to have a very small user base anyway (for quite some time), it's not like they are going to lose the bulk of their sales if they skipped the PS4.

I am not saying they would, but people are talking as if they would lose 50% of their sales on Fifa/Madden if they skipped the PS4 on their next iteration, when it's more like 5%-10% max.

It's going to be a game of chicken to see who blinks first.

Sony can deny them the PS3 publisihing if they skip the PS4.

Last Hearth · May 25, 2013

AOC83 said:
Sony can deny them the PS3 publisihing if they skip the PS4.

Like I said, a game of chicken to see who blinks first.

Sorc3r3r · May 25, 2013

Last Hearth said:
Sure they a ton of money from Sony machines. But they can continue to make games for the PS3. The PS4 is going to have a very small user base anyway (for quite some time), it's not like they are going to lose the bulk of their sales if they skipped the PS4.

I am not saying they would, but people are talking as if they would lose 50% of their sales on Fifa/Madden if they skipped the PS4 on their next iteration, when it's more like 5%-10% max.

It's going to be a game of chicken to see who blinks first.

Yeah, this.

BTW i think that if Sony really goes customer centric they will win market and control in the end.
Now the question can be moved further, what if they think that even going with DRMs they will get this control and market nonetheless?
Microsoft to be honest seems giving up the world for the usa...they seems not even trying.

Leonsito · May 25, 2013

Why does people keep saying that the Xbone is anti-used games? It's not, stop spreading bs.

IonicSnake · May 25, 2013

Leonsito said:
Why does people keep saying that the Xbone is anti-used games? It's not, stop spreading bs.

Me and my brother live in the same house but have a console each and we lend games to each other, can I lend him BF4 to play while I want to play Forza?

Officerrob · May 25, 2013

IonicSnake said:
Me and my brother live in the same house but have a console each and we lend games to each other, can I lend him BF4 to play while I want to play Forza?

Maybe? The newest quotes from Phil Harrison suggest so, but who the hell knows with all the mixed messages out there:

I think we will always take a customer or player centric view with this and our plans are very consistent with the way the world works today, which is if I buy a disc I can install it on my machine. I can play it and anyone associated with my machine can play it as well. I can give that disc to somebody else - maybe my son who has his own Xbox One somewhere else in the house - and he can install and play it on his machine.

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...-on-xbox-one-indies-pre-owned-games-and-more/

IonicSnake · May 25, 2013

Officerrob said:
Maybe? The newest quotes from Phil Harrison suggest so, but who the hell knows with all the mixed messages out there:

http://www.computerandvideogames.co...-on-xbox-one-indies-pre-owned-games-and-more/

That sounds good but he doesn't really say if his son can play on his account or if he need his dads account to play and if that's the case can both play at the same time on two different machines using the same account? So far this whole thing just screams anti-consumer.

Napalm_Frank · May 25, 2013

Well we still have yet to really see any big effects on this. EA was the one publisher that people were sure would reward Xbone for the DRM measures. And what do we got? All the big games are multiplat like before, MS got some exclusive content deal with FIFA that we don't even know what it is and DICE developers being not too enthusiastic about Xbone. We ''know'' Respawns new game will probably be at least timed exclusive if not full exclusive but having a new IP as exclusive is not exactly anything new from before.

There might be some dealings of course behind the scenes but if EA wanted to show some sort of unprecedented partnership with MS it didn't exactly show.

Aaron Strife · May 25, 2013

ArchangelWest said:
While I hear that side definitely, I'm far more concerned that that is the priority in people's minds over the fact that MS wants us to pay them to place a state of the art camera with a microphone, voice recognition, and always online into our homes.

No.

Oh sure. It's not like we have to pick our poison here.

klapauzius · May 25, 2013

MikeE21286 said:
Or what if it's the other way around.

Companies are going to start choosing sides though based on what we know about the strategies of both companies.

Indies to PS4. Mega-publishers to Xbox One

Actual the indies go to Wii U.

Devilgunman · May 25, 2013

Last Hearth said:
Sure they a ton of money from Sony machines. But they can continue to make games for the PS3. The PS4 is going to have a very small user base anyway (for quite some time), it's not like they are going to lose the bulk of their sales if they skipped the PS4.

I'm not so sure about that. PS4 and XB1 will equally fly off the shelf when they launch so at the beginning PS4/XB1 will have almost identical install base. What comes after that is critical. If XB1 will be so anti-consumer as it appears to be now, more people will flood to Sony side and eventually PS4 will have larger install base in a year or 2. No publisher or devs take a side with a company based on its policy. None. They go where install base are. Of course, all of this scenario will happen only if Sony choose to be on customer side and don't apply any idiotic policy.

Biker19 · May 25, 2013

reson8or said:
Mega Publishers games' will also be on PS4, they can't afford not to.

Agreed. Most publishers will be committing suicide financially if they try to make most of their games "Xbox One exclusive" because of the feature of blocking used titles. Most of their big budget games on PS3/360 could barely make them a profit or don't sell enough copies to make back the cost of development as it is.

Dlacy13g · May 25, 2013

Many are putting this new used game policy on MS but its quite obvious this is publisher and developer driven/supported. And I also will say if Sony and Nintendo don't play ball right away it won't be on MS to change but rather on the Publishers/Devs to play hard ball with Sony/Nintendo to force the issue. The system they have wanted is finally being put in place, it is 100% on them now to support it fully or it fails.

Reave · May 25, 2013

Leonsito said:
Why does people keep saying that the Xbone is anti-used games? It's not, stop spreading bs.

They opened that can of worms themselves. Even if this whole issue somehow takes a turn for the better, Microsoft can't blame people for misinterpreting when they can't lock into a concise explanation.

Biker19 · May 25, 2013

Winterfang said:
Yeah good for the Retail shops because people just buy the consoles and mod them/buy cheap use games. Meanwhile the Publishers that actually made the games where closing the studios left and right.

This ain't the piracy or used games fault for that. They brought it on themselves for trying to chase the COD, Assassin's Creed, etc. market thinking that they could get millions of sales by overspending their budgets on their developments along with overspending on marketing/advertising the games.

badcrumble · May 25, 2013

Third parties won't ignore either console. Gerstmann probably knows about some first-year moneyhatted titles for both consoles, but the opportunity cost for avoiding either console in the long run is too high and the cost of porting between the two (or down to both from BC) is very low. I'm almost certain that the only third-party exclusives will be paid for by MS or Sony, with very very few exceptions. Their architectures are incredibly similar; developing for both will be cheaper than last gen, not more expensive.

gofreak · May 25, 2013

badcrumble said:
Third parties won't ignore either console. Gerstmann probably knows about some first-year moneyhatted titles for both consoles, but the opportunity cost for avoiding either console in the long run is too high and the cost of porting between the two (or down to both from BC) is very low. I'm almost certain that the only third-party exclusives will be paid for by MS or Sony, with very very few exceptions. Their architectures are incredibly similar; developing for both will be cheaper than last gen, not more expensive.

I agree when it comes to the established and big pubs.

However for small or mid sized Japanese pubs, and small indie devs of all kinds, I could see one system getting a fair bit of content that the other does not, the way things are going at the moment...quite a few of the third party or non Sony affiliated PS4 games haven't been announced for Xbox One yet, and while I'm sure that will change for some, for others I'm not so sure.

Devilgunman · May 25, 2013

Dlacy13g said:
Many are putting this new used game policy on MS but its quite obvious this is publisher and developer driven/supported. And I also will say if Sony and Nintendo don't play ball right away it won't be on MS to change but rather on the Publishers/Devs to play hard ball with Sony/Nintendo to force the issue. The system they have wanted is finally being put in place, it is 100% on them now to support it fully or it fails.

The question is can publishers/devs do that? They have to weigh between loosing money for not putting games on PS4 and from used games. In this kind of economy, I don't think any 3rd party publisher can afford investing money on AAA game and not put it on both PS4 and XB1.

LowerLevel · May 25, 2013

anexanhume said:
Not if PS4 gets an early install base lead.

Very true. But if the normal consumer sees an Xbox One at $100 cheaper delivering the same CoD/BF4 games with exclusive content, the INITIAL install base numbers will theoretically go toward the One first. Also add in the possibility of a slightly earlier release date, and mainstream adverts which MS does so well, the "money" will be on MS' side. At that point, it would be more foolish for indies to NOT put their products on the Xbox.

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